Episode 1573 Talkback - Previews
i_am_scifi
Posts: 784
Previews! We go through the September catalog for items shipping to stores beginning in November.
Listen here!
https://youtu.be/_DPdTPJZouE
Listen here!
https://youtu.be/_DPdTPJZouE
Comments
re; Justice League United - for me, it's a combination of the characters and the price point. I'll grudgingly pay $3.99 (before discount) for the JLA, but there's nothing about the team that has been present in the JLU that is, for me, worth that money. For what it's worth, even as a diehard Legion fan, I skipped even skipped the Legion issues.
I too am NOT excited about Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns 3, and like Adam, I'm going to be awaiting it in trade and read the reviews before I invest in it. Smells like DC is returning to the well one too many times on the supposed "last Batman story" and Dark Knight Strikes Again was abysmal. But, having said that, I will definitely be in the minority here, but I happen to think Holy Terror gets an undeserved bad wrap and Chris Eberle's angry dismissal of it reminded me of that. I'm in the camp that believes if it's read as a Batman and Catwoman Vs violent jihadists of Al-Queda in an underground Gotham City bunker (as was originally intended), it's a bone-crunching, brilliant, good time. Magnificent artwork, albeit rather inconsistent at times.
Politically correct comic fans here may already be thinking I must be a right-wing, racist, misogynist wingnut to disagree with all the popular hate that's been directed at the book, but I submit that it's far superior to Dark Knight Strikes Again in several ways. It's basically Batman fighting jihadists and the fact that even that premise is considered controversial is just another sign of how far removed our culture is from where many Americans were during the early days of the war on terror. I guess people expected nuance and empathy towards violent jihadists in Miller's post-9/11 revenge fantasy, but that seems like an unrealistic expectation, given Miller's body of work. The vitriol aimed at Holy Terror reminds me of Alan Moore's boorish criticism of Sin City as being “homophobic and misogynistic.”
Moving on, as for the Neal Adams Batman Omnibus, I actually ordered it when it was first solicited last month for only $75 msrp. Then I received an update from DCBS (where it was selling for half-off) explaining that DC had cancelled it and found out they were jacking up the price another $25 to be re-solicited in September, I let my DCBS order for that item slide and promptly pre-ordered it via Amazon for only $46.
No new material was being added. No page count increase. Just a 33% price increase. Thanks DC...
Eventually, people start to wake up and recognize that the war on terror is a misnomer. You fight terror by eliminating publicity and funding for terror. You fight it by pointing out just how unsuccessful their efforts really are... yeah, a bomb just went off in downtown where ever and x people were killed, however, experts indicate that had the plot been successful many more would have been killed and injured. Take away the drama and replace it with a more cold, calculated reporting that de-emphasizes their success in accomplishing anything is demonstrates that they don't really know what they're doing. That's the way to start to stem the tide in funding and volunteers.
Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion on comics.
Were those that hate the book also upset at the '24' television series for virtually all the same things? I wasn't wildly impressed with the book, but on the one hand, it is a fascinating examination of a comic creator who was very seriously disturbed by the NYC attack on our homeland. In a post on his website dated September 23 (12 days after the 9/11 attacks), Miller unapologetically defended Holy Terror as a piece of "naked propaganda", but propaganda in a "virtuous" sense. Holy Terror is, in Miller's eyes, his contribution to the fight against terrorism.
And for what it is, I think it's an intriguing piece of work. And taken simply as comic book art, some of the panels are very nearly vintage Miller. It's worth having if you're a fan and is superior to DK2. That's essentially my point.
And for what it is, I think it's an intriguing piece of work. And taken simply as comic book art, some of the panels are very nearly vintage Miller. It's worth having if you're a fan and is superior to DK2. That's essentially my point.
I don't buy into any of that. First, I don't think that there's any such thing as virtuous propaganda. Second, if the proceeds from the book are being directed toward paying for PTSD therapy, prosthetic devices, funding reform initiatives in areas prone to terrorism or to enact a Marshal Plan-esque Hearts and Minds reconstruction, then it's a contribution against terrorism. Anything else is attempting to rationalize a fanwank.
As far as your false equivalency between the book and '24', some may have been. Others might have rejected it due to the lack of either bathroom breaks or catheter bags or because of the scenery chewing. Others may have watched along out of an appreciation for one or more of the cast, or because it was the current water-cooler talk.
I tend to agree with this writer from StateOfPlay.com
Bottom line: If you’re a fan of Miller’s, you should definitely buy it. Grab a used copy of it for yourself on Amazon for $7.
And look. I did all that without having to use a link to speak for me. ;)
That's all right. I also frequently disagree with those who believe that Captain America is just a jingoistic flag-waver and Hoverboy is the perfect hero for republicans.
Comics!
Overall, Miller just doesn't do much for me anymore. I enjoyed Sin City, 300, the Martha Washington books and X but haven't felt the need to revisiting him since.
In the case of Holy Terror, due to a mixed subject that I find gratuitous and absurd.
Captain America can irrefutably be argued as jingoistic - look at the Johnny Walker Cap from the '80s or Ultimate Cap.
I can't speak to Hoverboy. I try to avoid mixing politics with my entertainment where possible. Anything else will take the joy out of the entertainment. If I were to take a stab at looking for an archetypical "hero", I'd start and stop with Super Patriot with a little backup by the Watchdogs, though I think a case could be made for Tony Stark - wealthy industrialist, buys his power, does whatever he wants (I think it's generally a poor fit - Stark has demonstrated a conscience and a general desire to undo the mistakes that he, his father and their company have made in the past).
My point in replying at all was your apparent attempt to misdirect any criticism into a PC police agenda.
I'm looking forward to DK3 basically because it's a comic series with some of my favorite creators involved. As far as holding my breath and hoping for another classic, or going in with the mindset of needing to compare it to DK1 or DK2 panel by panel or page by page -- I'm not doing that and I don't care to do that. I'm just going to enjoy it for what it is.
Because it damn sure isn't touching the original. I "know" that already, so I can just go in and have the best reading experience possible without preconceived notions or whatever.
Same way I read All-Star Batman & Robin. I wasn't expecting much, but it was a damn lot of fun and did have some interesting bits. I enjoyed every issue of that and had a blast. Is it high art? No. But is it totally stupid? It's not that either. Even when the dialogue or monologues were overtly stupid and blunt, there was a point to it, I felt.
About DK2, though...
I read the first issue when it came out, and I was so disgusted that I didn't bother buying the rest of the series.
I finally read the whole thing around 2008 and actually enjoyed it okay.
Then I reread it circa 2011, and I now consider it one of the ten (five? three?) best superhero hero comics post-2000. It's an amazing work and all of its surface-level faults prove to be excellent stylings, as far as I'm concerned. It's great. It's fun. It doesn't take itself too seriously at times, and at other times it takes itself just seriously enough. It's more a DCU story than a Batman story. But I think it's great, I really like it.
But I generally like -- or am at least receptive to -- Miller's post-1990 styles (in terms of art and storytelling). So if Murd or whoever just generally does not like Miller, then oh well, I can totally understand why they wouldn't like -- or wouldn't ever BE ABLE to like -- DK2. But I do think that there's more than meets the eye on first-read-through in DK2, and in some respects it is an acquired taste. I definitely think people who disliked it years ago should give it another chance. I don't think it's anything close to what he accomplished in the mid-'80s. But I like most of what I've seen him do in the last 20 years, and DK2 is no exception.
I've not read Holy Terror and do not have any interest in doing so. If I saw it for $3 or something, I might pick it up. But I'm just not really all that curious.
It's Miller's version of "propaganda". He just comes right out and says that... which is at least more honest than most propagandists -- more honest than most writers, period. I don't really agree with him politically (I think his statements are waaay overblown), but in a way Miller is more respectful and trusting of his audience, because there is no pretense and he just comes out and lets everyone know what he's doing. That's different from most writers who either pretend that they aren't propagandistic in the least... or else they're so far into double-think that they believe that the world really IS the way it looks to them through their prejudiced glasses. Miller understands that political views are not reality but rather argument, and he is making an argument. All arguments are admittedly biased, and Miller admits the propagandistic element. I think Miller is at least aware of what he's doing and what he thinks. I think he's wrong in many ways, but at least he is consciously thinking about reality in a way that most politically orthodox people (right or left) just really... aren't thinking, or aren't scrutinizing their suppositions, because they aren't aware that they have fundamental suppositions in the first place. Frank Miller is aware of his fundamental supposition: that we're already in World War III and should behave and think accordingly. I think he is incorrect on that supposition, but at least he is very aware of where his politics come from.
But, honestly, even based on little bits of the story that I've heard, Holy Terror seems somewhat more nuanced than its detractors allege. (Apparently there are some baddies in it who aren't all Muslims.) I don't really... care, though. It still doesn't intrigue me, if only because I am very uninterested in most war comics. But I guess on one level if the very idea of such a work offends people who haven't even read the work, then I think it's good that the work is out there. I'm basically at the point where I think people who are offended deserve to be offended, because I'm tired of everyone being offended all the time. Note: I am not saying that the work is probably good. And people who have read the work are definitely entitled to disliking it and saying that it is offensive for no good reason.
The Fade Out is quickly wrapping up, and is soliciting issue 11 of 12. What a great story this has been!
Autumnlands T&C #7 starts the newest story arc. For anyone who has not read the first arc yet, and enjoys LoTR - you owe yourself the pleasure of at least reading the first issue. This book is far and away one of the best books I am reading right now. The first trade is out, and it is 6 issues for $9.99 ($5.99 on DCBS). 6 issues for $10 . . . damn.
Aside from that, I am anxiously awaiting Paper Girls, and seeing #2 solicited makes me want #1 even more.
I only read it the once, and that was when it was published, but my memory is that the book starts out strong (perhaps those were the pages he started the project with? And simply had to redraw to remove some bat ears?), with some narrative devices and visual punch that reminds me of what makes Miller a legend. But that quickly gives way to a lot of lazy, rushed, and muddy storytelling and bland characters.
I know that he had to change Batman and Catwoman into these other characters, but once he had that challenge, he could have changed them into something other than empty ciphers. All told, the worst sin of this book is not that it is offensive, but that it's boring. And certainly didn't feel worthy of the $30/hardcover treatment Legendary gave it.
Had I not read it then, and saw it for $5 now, sure, I would give it a read now. If only because I think Miller's status in the medium of American comics make all of his work, even one that became a mess like this, worth investigating. But I think the reviews that this work got- from those who read it- are fair. Beyond the controversy surrounding it, there is very little there. The early pages feel like Miller, much of the rest of it felt ground out. I liked DK2 more than most people, I think, and once I got used to what he was doing (or what I thought he was going for), I actually really enjoyed All-Star Batman & Robin. So I feel like I have contemporary enough work of Miller's to compare Holy Terror to so as to feel like I should have been able to expect more, and expect better.
That said, I will be trying the first issue of DK3. Sure, I got burned on Miller's last work, but I can't help it. I hope it is a return to form, and maybe he will benefit from his collaborators, or from actually working with Batman again. Or, if it is terrible, it will probably be terrible in an interesting way. (At least, to make the one issue worth it)
At that price, though, I am not pre-ordering past #1. It will be a wait and see.
And as for DK3 Understandable, and I considered it, but will be waiting for the collected edition tpb.
I didn't hate it or throw it down in disgust; it just wasn't what worth what I paid for it (even through dcbs). If you can get it for $10.00 pick it up and give it the once over.
For example, you can look at New Avengers Vol. 3 and say that's Jonathan Hickman's or Iron Man Vol. 5 and say that's Kieron Gillen's.
Which means going into the relaunches with new creative teams it feels very different from say the 90s where the X-book writers were interchangeable puppets for the editor. Now when you've got a Jeff Lemire X-book and a Cullen Bunn X-book, you are much more likely to get their visions for the characters. Whereas my brain went straight to...
I'm not a huge Black Knight fan, but the combination of that character with WeirdWorld and Frank Tieri sounds interesting enough to pique my attention. I've only ever read Tieri with his "Weapon X" stuff, including his related "Deadpool" issues, but I thought they were quite good. Off-beat choices like Sauron, Mesmero, and Aurora in the Weapon X program, and stories all about political intrigue and office romance? It was much, much better than it had any right to be. I'm not saying it was a total classic, but Tieri's Weapon X was "just" very good, in my opinion.
You guys do realize that Gerry Duggan wrote the last volume of "Deadpool" as well, right? He's not a new name. He's also doing the current "Infinity Gauntlet" Secret Wars series, which is excellent and totally unlike his Deadpool work, and he'll also be doing "Uncanny Avengers" this fall. The guy has range. He's not going to win an Eisner any time soon, but the guy is still, well, very good. In my opinion.
Totally agree about GI Joe, I just started picking up the IDW series about 3 months ago. Really good storytelling and characterizations. Compelling is the best word I can use to describe Hama's work
I'll mention The Midnight Society The Black Lake from Dark Horse and Drew Edward Johnson from Dark Horse as a book I recommend then trade is solicited, the first three issues were excellent and Johnson's art is top notch. Also I am so IN on Kingsway West. I got a chance to interview Greg Pak at SDCC this year about this book and it is available on my website if anyone is interested. He is very excited about the book and I can't wait to read it. We talked about the impetus of the series, Mirko Colak's art, the real life historical apsects of the book and a lot more.
No interest in DK3 I never was able to get through DK2 though I have tried several times. I have always felt Miller was overrated at best and a downright hack at worst. One of those creators who started believing he was infallible and the work slid further and further downhill as time has gone on.
Superman: American Alien could be good, though not sure what to expect though I think I will wait for the trade. Batman Europa was a title that Jim Lee was supposed to fully paint a few years ago. Happy to see it finally seeing the light of day. Story sounds intriguing, art I guess we will see.
Cyborg has been blowing me away and the Flash is quality month in and out.
Hated Man of steel, couldn't get past all the plot holes and characters acting so wildly OUT of character. Kryptonians are bred through genetics to be the best at whatever their forte is, yet Jor-El is a bad ass fighter and goes toe to toe with Zod? Their greatest general ever, huh? Pa Kent ever even vaguely hinting that Clark should've let the kids on the bus die? C'mon! Forget killing Zod, Superman destroying millions of Kryptonian lives by using his heat vision on the Kryptonian ship, instead of finding a way to preserve them like he always did with the bottled city of Kandor until he could find a way to restore them. Worst of all, major parts of Metropolis lying in ruin and Superman going to kiss Lois instead of looking for survivors or those that need help, bad enough he did that, but there wasn't even a thought to help out or look for injured. Again so wildly out of character.
GI Joe, Boy-1 and Empire Uprising from Mark Waid all get my recommendation.
Marvel. Ugh I don't even know where to start. Maybe I will get Iron Man. I will support Tom King so I am in on Vision. Maybe Moon Knight.
Going to call Murd's attention to Jirni Vol 2 # 4 written by JT Krul and art by friend of the show V Ken Marion. The second volume of Jirni is channeling Pirates of Dark Water a favorite obscure cartoon from the 90's.
Crossed one of the books I couldn't stop reading but felt soiled by it. So disturbing and depraved, yet incredibly compelling.
Bond, yes please, Despite that it is from Dynamite.
Klaus looks like a hoot. Love the art. Curios as to Murd's opinion of that Rankin/Bass Santa origin. R/B seems to have put a definite stamp on Christmas cartoons and stories for a large generation of people. "Twas the Night Before Christmas s my personal fav. Ker-plunk KER-PLOOEY!
Also I was very surprised no one mentioned the Herb Trimpe HC from Twomorrows, it looks amazing! A look at the life and art of Trimpe in his own words, I am in.