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Episode 1586 Talkback - Star Wars: The Force Awakens Movie Review

Since Star Wars 'episodes' always come in threes, here's our third one this month, in which we finally share our thoughts, observations, speculations, trepidations, and general euphoria concerning the record-smashing, generation-defining, runaway space-fantasy hit of the decade, Star Wars: The Force Awakens! 'Nuff Said! (2:01:57)

Listen (or watch) here. Be seduced by the Light!
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Comments

  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Great conversation so far! Love hearing @brydeemer and @Matt and especially @pants again - it's been too long. I just dove in, and will listen off and on today. Thanks for the review guys.
  • DARDAR Posts: 1,128
    I've only heard the first 15 minutes or so. But regarding the prequels, there are versions on YouTube called the anti cheese edits. I saw the first 10 minutes of Phantom Menace and it's pretty good
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited January 2016
    Last year, "That 70's Show" star Topher Grace made his own fan edit of the Star Wars prequels. Slashing all three prequels from an original runtime of a combined 415 minutes to a single film that ran for a quick 85. Aside from a small handful of private screenings, his version has never seen the light of day (to avoid copyright infringement).

    In 2001, there was the release of the "Phantom Edit" which begins with the Darth Maul battle at the end of Episode I and then combines the best parts of Ep II & III into one single 2 hour film. It isn't bad. Rumor attributed The Phantom Edit to Kevin Smith, who admitted to having seen the re-edit but denied that he was the editor. The editor was revealed to be Mike J. Nichols of Santa Clarita, California. George Lucas, condoned the edit and did not pursue legal action against its distributors.

    It can be watched online for free on Youtube below - and it isn't bad at all. Even utilizes a couple of deleted scenes to good effect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9LEhOZZbuk&feature=youtu.be



  • krustycookkrustycook Posts: 42
    edited January 2016
    Great call on Rey being Luke/Leia's daughter. I've been telling people it happened at the end of Empire, after Luke got his new hand.

    "Ben! Why didn't you tell me???"

    Generally I enjoyed it, but agree there were too many similarities to the original. In fact, I think Lucas might deserve a story credit. It was kinda like a light beer version of the original.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Great call on Rey being Luke/Leia's daughter. I've been telling people it happened at the end of Empire, after Luke got his new hand.

    "Ben! Why didn't you tell me???"

    Generally I enjoyed it, but agree there were too many similarities to the original. In fact, I think Lucas might deserve a story credit. It was kinda like a light beer version of the original.

    I think you mean "Han/Leia's daughter."

    It would make sense Luke never having a family. Wasn't it established in the prequel trilogy Jedi Knights don't do that? Being the last Jedi Knight, Luke can virtually make up the lifestyle of the Jedi, but I just foresee him following the original traditions.

    M
  • krustycookkrustycook Posts: 42
    edited January 2016
    Matt said:

    Great call on Rey being Luke/Leia's daughter. I've been telling people it happened at the end of Empire, after Luke got his new hand.

    "Ben! Why didn't you tell me???"

    Generally I enjoyed it, but agree there were too many similarities to the original. In fact, I think Lucas might deserve a story credit. It was kinda like a light beer version of the original.

    I think you mean "Han/Leia's daughter."

    It would make sense Luke never having a family. Wasn't it established in the prequel trilogy Jedi Knights don't do that? Being the last Jedi Knight, Luke can virtually make up the lifestyle of the Jedi, but I just foresee him following the original traditions.

    M
    No, I really did mean Luke and Leia's daughter (wasn't that the joke?). Luke lusted after Leia for 2 movies before finding out she was his sister.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    Matt said:

    Great call on Rey being Luke/Leia's daughter. I've been telling people it happened at the end of Empire, after Luke got his new hand.

    "Ben! Why didn't you tell me???"

    Generally I enjoyed it, but agree there were too many similarities to the original. In fact, I think Lucas might deserve a story credit. It was kinda like a light beer version of the original.

    I think you mean "Han/Leia's daughter."

    It would make sense Luke never having a family. Wasn't it established in the prequel trilogy Jedi Knights don't do that? Being the last Jedi Knight, Luke can virtually make up the lifestyle of the Jedi, but I just foresee him following the original traditions.

    M
    He's referring to when Murd joked about her possibly being Luke & Leia's daughter.

    Personally I hope she isn't the daughter of anyone we've seen so far. I'm sick of everyone having to be related. Besides, leaving your daughter on Jakku, never explaining why, or visiting her is a pretty shitty thing to do. At least Luke was on Tatooine with relatives and had Obi Wan watching over him.

  • Mr_Cosmic said:

    Matt said:

    Great call on Rey being Luke/Leia's daughter. I've been telling people it happened at the end of Empire, after Luke got his new hand.

    "Ben! Why didn't you tell me???"

    Generally I enjoyed it, but agree there were too many similarities to the original. In fact, I think Lucas might deserve a story credit. It was kinda like a light beer version of the original.

    I think you mean "Han/Leia's daughter."

    It would make sense Luke never having a family. Wasn't it established in the prequel trilogy Jedi Knights don't do that? Being the last Jedi Knight, Luke can virtually make up the lifestyle of the Jedi, but I just foresee him following the original traditions.

    M
    He's referring to when Murd joked about her possibly being Luke & Leia's daughter.

    Personally I hope she isn't the daughter of anyone we've seen so far. I'm sick of everyone having to be related. Besides, leaving your daughter on Jakku, never explaining why, or visiting her is a pretty shitty thing to do. At least Luke was on Tatooine with relatives and had Obi Wan watching over him.

    Before Episode VII came out, there were rumors that Finn was a Calrissian, but I have no idea if that was just idle speculation.
  • Mr_Cosmic said:

    I'm sick of everyone having to be related.

    It does kind of make the universe seem a lot smaller. That was another one of my gripes with the prequels... Did Anakin really need to be the builder of C3PO, really? C'mon?!
    Completely agree. In fact, why do Luke and Leia need to be brother and sister? We should start there. Was that the only way to cool Luke's feelings for Leia? We still haven't seen an ounce of her supposed Jedi abilities (other than giving birth to and raising a Ren).
  • Something I haven't heard many people discuss:

    Yeah, Chewie and Leia should have hugged. NOTABLY missing from the movie. But to me, another JUST AS NOTABLY missing scene was the lack of someone reacting via the Force to the deaths of BILLIONS of people in the planets in the Republic (ala: Obi-Wan reacting to Alderaan)

    Yes, at this point in the movie, Rey is not aware of her abilities (nor are we), we haven't seen Leia, Luke isn't a part of it, and Kylo is a bad dude.

    But I was surprised that NOBODY "felt" the deaths of billions of people via the Force. Not even like Maz or someone.

    Not to mention the only time we even saw people react to the destruction was immediately afterwards and then...nothing.

    Just curious if that bothered anyone else.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200

    Something I haven't heard many people discuss:

    Yeah, Chewie and Leia should have hugged. NOTABLY missing from the movie. But to me, another JUST AS NOTABLY missing scene was the lack of someone reacting via the Force to the deaths of BILLIONS of people in the planets in the Republic (ala: Obi-Wan reacting to Alderaan)

    Yes, at this point in the movie, Rey is not aware of her abilities (nor are we), we haven't seen Leia, Luke isn't a part of it, and Kylo is a bad dude.

    But I was surprised that NOBODY "felt" the deaths of billions of people via the Force. Not even like Maz or someone.

    Not to mention the only time we even saw people react to the destruction was immediately afterwards and then...nothing.

    Just curious if that bothered anyone else.

    Yes, I actually thought about this. In fact, on the way home from the movie, the wife and I talked about how Luke had to have felt those deaths and how him remaining in seclusion was pretty "dickish."

  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    I thought the movie was brilliant. Loved it. I don't mind all of the nods to Episode IV and I thought it was kind of brilliant. The one thing you didn't get in this movie though was an ending like "A New Hope". It wasn't quite "Empire Strikes Back" but it wasn't as celebratory as Episodes IV or VI.

    I thought the characters were amazing. I know people have been talking about how cool Rey was as well as Finn. I thought Poe was very awesome. I loved how kept his sarcastic nature with Kylo at the beginning of the movie. "Who talks first? Do you talk first?" It was great. I also loved him in his element which was inside the cockpit of the X-Wing. Very good stuff.

    I enjoyed the humor. I don't know why but when Han used Chewie's bowcaster and realized how good it was, I just found it hysterical. I laughed. The scene with BB-8 and Finn was outstanding and very funny. I kind of needed to see it again because I giggled so much at the one particular scene. I thought the humor was overall very good. I liked it and I wouldn't have changed anything about it.

    I loved Kylo Ren. I loved his saber which I did a little researching and found out that the reason his lightsaber looks so unstable is because the Kaiburr crystal used in his lightsaber is actually cracked and that the side blades are exhausts so the saber doesn't overload and blow up. I listened to the latest episode of Rebel Force Radio and they had on Sam Witwer on the show. He mentioned how he and Adam Driver both when to Juilliard and there is actually an acting class where they wear masks in order to teach the students how to emote with various masks on. It was interesting to hear and I can imagine that Adam Driver did a good job in class because I thought he did amazing with the mask on.

    I had been expecting someone to die in the movie but the scene still gets to me. I've seen the movie three times and it gets me every time. The way that Harrison Ford and Adam Driver played the scene was just heartbreaking and just sad. The first time I saw it, there were audible gasps in the theater I saw it in.

    Overall, I loved the movie. I think it might be my favorite of the movies.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I'm sick of everyone having to be related.

    It does kind of make the universe seem a lot smaller. That was another one of my gripes with the prequels... Did Anakin really need to be the builder of C3PO, really? C'mon?!
    Completely agree. In fact, why do Luke and Leia need to be brother and sister? We should start there. Was that the only way to cool Luke's feelings for Leia? We still haven't seen an ounce of her supposed Jedi abilities (other than giving birth to and raising a Ren).
    Perhaps to some extent, having a sister kept Luke grounded with the light side of the Force initially.

    I think for this trilogy, to continue with the Space Opera of the Skywalker family, Rey has to be a family member.

    M
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    edited January 2016

    Something I haven't heard many people discuss:

    Yeah, Chewie and Leia should have hugged. NOTABLY missing from the movie. But to me, another JUST AS NOTABLY missing scene was the lack of someone reacting via the Force to the deaths of BILLIONS of people in the planets in the Republic (ala: Obi-Wan reacting to Alderaan)

    Yes, at this point in the movie, Rey is not aware of her abilities (nor are we), we haven't seen Leia, Luke isn't a part of it, and Kylo is a bad dude.

    But I was surprised that NOBODY "felt" the deaths of billions of people via the Force. Not even like Maz or someone.

    Not to mention the only time we even saw people react to the destruction was immediately afterwards and then...nothing.

    Just curious if that bothered anyone else.

    I agree. And I think they had that scene (of Leia feeling it) shot. It is in the novelization, and I would guess they shot it, and we will see it as a cutscene. Originally there were more scenes of Leia earlier on (the novelization has her in the beginning arguing with other leaders about whether or not this search for Luke is worth the resources they are putting towards it), then later there is a scene where she sends an envoy to the senate on their behalf (who, I am guessing, is the woman in resistance uniform featured prominently in the crowd when the destruction comes to the capital planet); and the book has a description of Leia, in the command center feeling the death of all those beings, before the Resistance have figured out that the capital system has been destroyed.

    But the cut they went doesn't have us see Leia until Han does, so we don't see that. And I think without it, there isn't the reaction to the destruction of that planet that it deserves.
  • Matt said:

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I'm sick of everyone having to be related.

    It does kind of make the universe seem a lot smaller. That was another one of my gripes with the prequels... Did Anakin really need to be the builder of C3PO, really? C'mon?!
    Completely agree. In fact, why do Luke and Leia need to be brother and sister? We should start there. Was that the only way to cool Luke's feelings for Leia? We still haven't seen an ounce of her supposed Jedi abilities (other than giving birth to and raising a Ren).
    Perhaps to some extent, having a sister kept Luke grounded with the light side of the Force initially.

    I think for this trilogy, to continue with the Space Opera of the Skywalker family, Rey has to be a family member.

    M
    Both good points. I'm sure Lucas wanted to ditch the love triangle angle, but without Luke as a spurned lover.

    And I agree that Rey is probably a family member, especially given her unknown parentage, but being Luke's daughter seems too simple.
  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    Matt said:

    Mr_Cosmic said:

    I'm sick of everyone having to be related.

    It does kind of make the universe seem a lot smaller. That was another one of my gripes with the prequels... Did Anakin really need to be the builder of C3PO, really? C'mon?!
    Completely agree. In fact, why do Luke and Leia need to be brother and sister? We should start there. Was that the only way to cool Luke's feelings for Leia? We still haven't seen an ounce of her supposed Jedi abilities (other than giving birth to and raising a Ren).
    Perhaps to some extent, having a sister kept Luke grounded with the light side of the Force initially.

    I think for this trilogy, to continue with the Space Opera of the Skywalker family, Rey has to be a family member.

    M
    Well, it adds to the drama. George Lucas has always stated that his story (at least in the original trilogy) was a space opera. A story that takes place in three parts. Also, he said it was a soap opera. It was about family and the relationships between fathers and sons and having Leia be Luke's brother is part of the drama and that "OMG" moment. It also works when it comes to the confrontation between Luke and Vader at the end of Jedi.
  • I agree that one moment between Luke and Vader works in Jedi, but even at age 13, when I saw Jedi in the theater, I thought the "Leia is Luke's sister" angle seemed contrived. It wasn't an OMG moment for me (certainly not to the level of Vader being Luke's father.)

    I just hope they make Rey's parentage interesting, even if she is a Skywalker. Making her a kid Luke had with some woman we've never heard doesn't seem very satisfying.
  • DmanDman Posts: 163
    edited January 2016
    Thank you guys for a great episode!

    All in all, I love this film; mainly because I never thought I would see in my lifetime a new Star Wars film with Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher and the Millennium Falcon, the best spaceship in the history of mankind. I got verklampt the first time they each appeared on screen. Honestly, I was a tad bored until that glorious pan shot to the Falcon. From then on, I was totally into it. I also love all the new characters as well. I'm already a fan of Oscar Issac and I second Chris' recommendation on Inside Llewyn Davis. Oscar gives great performances in that and Ex-Machina. I immediately took to John Boyega and Daisy Ridley and I sincerely hope for their continued success in their respective acting career outside of Star Wars.

    In terms of ranking:
    4, 6, 5, 7, 3, 2, 1
    It may change but I'm not quite ready to put The Force Awakens above Return of the Jedi, a SW film I personally still love very much. We'll see about 8 and 9.

    Was I the only one to geek out at the appearance of Admiral Ackbar and Nien Nunb? I was surprised they didn't get mentioned in the podcast. Before this trilogy is over, we MUST have Admiral Ackbar say "It’s a trap!" :smile:

  • krustycookkrustycook Posts: 42
    edited January 2016
    Dman said:


    In terms of ranking:
    4, 6, 5, 7, 3, 2, 1
    It may change but I'm not quite ready to put The Force Awakens above Return of the Jedi, a SW film I personally still love very much. We'll see about 8 and 9.

    I agree with this. I'm still partial to the climax of Jedi, with the Luke/Vader/Emperor scenes and the space battle (but not the Ewoks). I still don't think they've done a better space battle than that in the prequels or in 7.

    My ranking is 5, 4, 6, 7, 1, 3, 2 (1 over the other prequels because of the Qui Gon/Obi Wan/Darth Maul fight.)

    But would we really like 7 as much if 1-3 weren't so awful? I enjoyed it, but I find with J J Abrams movies that I enjoy them in the theater, but they don't leave me with a lot after. I enjoyed the 2 Star Trek movies but found them to be very forgettable. Even this movie felt more like a greatest hits album. Like "My favorite group has a new album. Thank god they're back to playing the music I like."

    There was little in it that felt really new. So while I enjoyed it, I have a hard time ranking it with the original trilogy. If anything, I have more respect for the original trilogy because of Episode 7.

    And despite the money it's making at the box office, I've met few kids who really LOVED it. I've heard more "pretty good" comments than anything from the under-16 set.
  • electric_mayhemelectric_mayhem Posts: 641
    edited January 2016
    @Matt you are wrong about your theory about Rey.

    My theory is that I feel that Rey is Luke's daughter, but he doesn't know that she is his daughter. Rey has been closed off from the Force (until she has been awoken, obviously.) She was left on Jakku by HER MOTHER, who hid Rey from the First Order and Snoke.

    Ben Solo told Rey that "So this is the girl I have heard about." As a cousin, or a fellow student training with Luke? Not as a twin sister. They would have felt each other through the Force as Rey awoken..

  • DARDAR Posts: 1,128
    I loved the episode and I loved the film. It reminded me not only why I love the saga but just movies in general. Also my ranking is

    5,4,7,6,3.....2.......1

    Oh and one last thing, I like to think Jamie was there as a force ghost enjoying the film somewhere.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    @Matt you are wrong about your theory about Rey.

    My theory is that I feel that Rey is Luke's daughter, but he doesn't know that she is his daughter. Rey has been closed off from the Force (until she has been awoken, obviously.) She was left on Jakku by HER MOTHER, who hid Rey from the First Order and Snoke.

    Ben Solo told Rey that "So this is the girl I have heard about." As a cousin, or a fellow student training with Luke? Not as a twin sister. They would have felt each other through the Force as Rey awoken..

    Luke's daughter is too obvious. Vader didn't Force feel Luke in ANH. Neither Force felt Leia until RoJ. I don't believe they're twins, but still brother & sister.

    I can't rule out they aren't siblings just because of Ben's wording.

    M
  • Matt said:

    @Matt you are wrong about your theory about Rey.

    My theory is that I feel that Rey is Luke's daughter, but he doesn't know that she is his daughter. Rey has been closed off from the Force (until she has been awoken, obviously.) She was left on Jakku by HER MOTHER, who hid Rey from the First Order and Snoke.

    Ben Solo told Rey that "So this is the girl I have heard about." As a cousin, or a fellow student training with Luke? Not as a twin sister. They would have felt each other through the Force as Rey awoken..

    Luke's daughter is too obvious. Vader didn't Force feel Luke in ANH. Neither Force felt Leia until RoJ. I don't believe they're twins, but still brother & sister.

    I can't rule out they aren't siblings just because of Ben's wording.

    M
    I can't rule out that Rey doesn't have a connection to Luke due to her vision with Vader's first lightsaber..

    Luke wasn't fully opened to the Force in ANH, he needed training with Yoda.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Matt said:

    @Matt you are wrong about your theory about Rey.

    My theory is that I feel that Rey is Luke's daughter, but he doesn't know that she is his daughter. Rey has been closed off from the Force (until she has been awoken, obviously.) She was left on Jakku by HER MOTHER, who hid Rey from the First Order and Snoke.

    Ben Solo told Rey that "So this is the girl I have heard about." As a cousin, or a fellow student training with Luke? Not as a twin sister. They would have felt each other through the Force as Rey awoken..

    Luke's daughter is too obvious. Vader didn't Force feel Luke in ANH. Neither Force felt Leia until RoJ. I don't believe they're twins, but still brother & sister.

    I can't rule out they aren't siblings just because of Ben's wording.

    M
    I can't rule out that Rey doesn't have a connection to Luke due to her vision with Vader's first lightsaber..

    Luke wasn't fully opened to the Force in ANH, he needed training with Yoda.
    Niece is a connection.

    M
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    Anakin was conceived of the Force. Rey could be as well.

    (Still holding out hope she isn't related to any of them)
  • alienalalienal Posts: 508
    Thanks for doing this ep. on video. Loved seeing Pants waving his arms about, his Rey and BB-8 acquisitions and the medals he gave out at the end.

    Speaking of BB-8, I've also heard people on social media saying that BB-8 might be a female droid, BUT I'm pretty sure I heard the junk dealer, Unkar Plutt, say the droid is a "he."

    As for the similarity in plot to Episode IV, I had an opposite reaction to Matt's a perhaps more similar to Bryan's. At first, right after the movie I didn't feel like there was much new and that it certainly was a kind of rehash, BUT if that was so why did I feel like I wanted to learn more about what happens next? So now, just a few days after seeing it the second time I'm feeling pretty jazzed about the next one.

    Anyway, it was nice hearing from Bryan, Pants and Matt again! I hope they show up more often!
  • alienal said:


    As for the similarity in plot to Episode IV, I had an opposite reaction to Matt's a perhaps more similar to Bryan's. At first, right after the movie I didn't feel like there was much new and that it certainly was a kind of rehash, BUT if that was so why did I feel like I wanted to learn more about what happens next? So now, just a few days after seeing it the second time I'm feeling pretty jazzed about the next one.

    The story of Episodes IV and VII are near identical. I saw Episode IV as the story driven version of it and Episode VII as the character driven version of it. In the Force Awakens the plot was almost an afterthought. That movie is all about establishing the new characters.

  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Episode VII is essentially a Star Wars (Episode IV) and Episode V mash-up. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it, but they still rank much higher on my favorites list than Force Awakens.
  • Great points guys....loved the episode and really enjoyed everyone's comments here. I have to say that part of me loved the Force Awakens amidst the nostalgia halo of my mind, and apart of me was disappointed that they really played it safe with the story's major beats being identical to Episode IV. I really wanted to love the movie in every way, yet came away loving it for some things (the new cast + BB8 were excellent), and just liking it for others (the plans in a droid, Death Star with the same old weakness thing). For me it felt like a smashup of the story of Episode IV and a bit of Episode VI with Han having to blow something up in order for the rebels to get through....and the feel of Episode V......with the drama.

    In terms of Rey, I have to say that I think she is Luke's daughter, since the foreshadowing was like a bat to the head. She's on a desert planet, she lives in a fallen AT-AT, she made a doll that looks like Luke in the rebel pilots outfit (in the background of the scene), she wears an old Rebel pilot's helmet while outside the AT-AT, and the Force is mighty strong within her. All the major voices that were there to guide Luke speak to her (Yoda and Obiwan) and the first scene of her flashback is to that Bespin corridor where Luke faced Darth Vader for the first time. There's also a huge parallel with Luke being asked by Han to join the crew (right before the Death Star run), and Rey being asked by Han to join the crew)....something that I just realized while reading the new re-issue hardcover for Episode IV......

    I remember reading in an interview somewhere that J.J. Abrams said that they didn't get complicated with the foreshadowing, and that they made a film with kids in mind that is easy to figure out, trying to stay away from being overly complicated.

    Still, half the fun is in guessing! If it's one thing I took away from the film, it is that it got me really excited for the next one!
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