As far as the Captain Marvel name goes, to the vast majority of its potential audience, the name means absolutely nothing. It’s a blank slate. For better or worse (depending on how good the movie is), Carol Danvers will be who most people think of when they hear “Captain Marvel” going forward.
As for her potential to be an icon, with very rare exceptions, icons aren't made overnight. They are built on a foundation of timing, resonance, and nostalgia. Who knows how people will think of the character 15, 20 years from now. No one ever thought the Guardians of the Galaxy would become a household name, but there they are. Though, of course, it remains to be seen if they will still be relevant in 20 years.
This is Disney we're talking about. As long as Captain Marvel movies make money, Disney will keep making them. The more Captain Marvel movies they make, the better chance the character has at reaching icon status.
I can't help but think the iconic comic book characters had their names from the beginning. Danvers, if successful as Marvel's female icon, will always have the fact she wasn't the initial (no ret-con) identity. Three years from now, if a coworker asked "what's the detail with Captain Marvel," do immediately talk about Danvers or inquire which one? What other iconic comic book character has that issue?
I have felt Danvers had been rammed down our throats the last 10yrs to make us acknowledge her as an icon for Marvel (a habit Marvel has been frequenting the last 5 years). I wasn't around when Diana hit the stands, so I can't same she had the same beginnings to iconic status.
Has ANY icon in the genre been rammed down our throats as an icon?*
* If you think Stark is an icon, I'd say he's been rammed down our throats since RDJ's version too.
Oh I was just having fun, thinking on how big an icon Wonder Woman is and how she is essentially unmatched in the superhero genre for well-known female super heroes. Plus considering the lamentable fact that DC has waited so long to try to do a feature movie for her. Harmless fun. Again, I'm a fan of Carol Danvers, too.
I wouldn’t have called Iron Man an icon until very recently. The movies—or more specifically Robert Downey Jr.—has made the character an icon, or at least something very close to it.
I'm just wondering why there has to be this “versus” angle. There’s plenty of room for both Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman to be popular figures. I don't know if Captain Marvel will ever become part of the popular zeitgeist or not, but does it really matter if she doesn’t? The character can still become a recognizable, money-making machine, and that’s all Disney really cares about anyway.
I wasn't trying to put a Diana vs. Danvers discussion out there. More a "Danvers as an icon" discussion.
I don't see Stark as an icon. RDJ as Stark, yes, but that's as far as that character is going. I'd even throw Wolverine more so into the mix, which felt more organic (prior to New Avengers) then the throat ramming of Danvers & Stark...and I don't consider Wolverine to be an icon.
I can see why everyone is comparing Carol to Diana, given that Marvel has been propping up Captain Marvel for the last few years as the poster child for girl power... obviously "grooming" the character for film.
I have two young daughters, both of who most likely read more super hero comics then the average elementary school aged girl. They were both very excited to see the new Wonder Woman film, and I was excited to have a female centric film for them to watch. We all enjoyed it, and I was pretty happy that DC didn't drop the ball. However, as much as both my daughters liked the movie, neither of them would place Wonder Woman in their top five female heroes (and although they know who she is, Captain Marvel isn't even on the radar). For them it is ALL about Black Widow and to a lesser degree Scarlet Witch, and even Gamora (and for some strange reason, my 11 year old LOVES Moonstone from the Thunderbolts).
In my opinion, Marvel blew it when they passed up the opportunity to give Scarlett Johansson a Black Widow feature, and beat DC to the punch with the first female lead release.
I can't help but think the iconic comic book characters had their names from the beginning. Danvers, if successful as Marvel's female icon, will always have the fact she wasn't the initial (no ret-con) identity. Three years from now, if a coworker asked "what's the detail with Captain Marvel," do immediately talk about Danvers or inquire which one? What other iconic comic book character has that issue?
Three years does not an icon make (again, with the very rare exception, see Star Wars). If that coworker comes up to you in 15, 20 years and asks what the deal is with Captain Marvel, it will almost certainly be because they want to know more about Carol Danvers. The other Captains Marvel will be fun, historical footnotes you can bring up to confuse and/or impress your friends. Those footnotes won't change how your friends look at the Carol Danvers character.
I have felt Danvers had been rammed down our throats the last 10yrs to make us acknowledge her as an icon for Marvel (a habit Marvel has been frequenting the last 5 years). I wasn't around when Diana hit the stands, so I can't same she had the same beginnings to iconic status.
Has ANY icon in the genre been rammed down our throats as an icon?*
* If you think Stark is an icon, I'd say he's been rammed down our throats since RDJ's version too.
If Carol Danvers has been rammed down our throats—I wouldn’t know as I don't read any of the core Marvel titles—it’s simply because Marvel is trying to establish new brands to reach new markets so they can make more money. They’re doing what they’ve always done—they try to find the hot trend and cash in on it. In the process, they flood the market with like-minded product until those books stop selling. They did it in the ’40s with superhero books and teen humor books and western books. They did it in the ’50s with war books and romance books and horror books. They did it in the ’60s with superheroes again, after seeing the resurgence happening at DC. They did it with horror-oriented heroes and exploitation characters in the ’70s. When the X-Men were at their peak in the early ’90s, they put out a bajillion X-Men books.
It’s simply what they do.
They’re not trying to make icons. They’re trying to make money.
As for Wonder Woman, if any iconic comic character was explicitly designed to reach a certain market, it was Wonder Woman. Marston himself described Wonder Woman as “psychological propaganda”. She first appeared in All-Star Comics #8 the secretary of the JSA as a way to promote her upcoming feature in Sensation Comics, which soon expanded to her own book. Batman and Superman rarely appeared in the JSA stories, and even then only as cameos, but Wonder Woman was in every issue, albeit in a rather insignificant role. Her titles were never on a level with DC’s best sellers, but she still was one of the five superheroes DC kept active through the entirity of the ’50s. But I don’t think the character could really be considered an icon until the late ’60s, early ’70s and the rise of feminism.
Her rise to icon status came down to timing, resonance, and a bit of nostalgia. So I don’t see why the same can’t happen with Carol Danvers at some point down the line.
I can see why everyone is comparing Carol to Diana, given that Marvel has been propping up Captain Marvel for the last few years as the poster child for girl power... obviously "grooming" the character for film.
I have two young daughters, both of who most likely read more super hero comics then the average elementary school aged girl. They were both very excited to see the new Wonder Woman film, and I was excited to have a female centric film for them to watch. We all enjoyed it, and I was pretty happy that DC didn't drop the ball. However, as much as both my daughters liked the movie, neither of them would place Wonder Woman in their top five female heroes (and although they know who she is, Captain Marvel isn't even on the radar). For them it is ALL about Black Widow and to a lesser degree Scarlet Witch, and even Gamora (and for some strange reason, my 11 year old LOVES Moonstone from the Thunderbolts).
In my opinion, Marvel blew it when they passed up the opportunity to give Scarlett Johansson a Black Widow feature, and beat DC to the punch with the first female lead release.
My daughter is much the same. She likes comics, though she reads very few Marvel or DC books. She’s kind of interested in seeing the Wonder Woman movie, but she prefers Black Widow. Frankly, she’s more excited when a new Steven Universe episode is released, because she’d rather see the Crystal Gems in action than either WW or Black Widow.
Frankly, she’s more excited when a new Steven Universe episode is released, because she’d rather see the Crystal Gems in action than either WW or Black Widow.
I have NO idea what Steven Universe is. I will hunt that down and share with my girls.. Thanks!
I can't help but think the iconic comic book characters had their names from the beginning. Danvers, if successful as Marvel's female icon, will always have the fact she wasn't the initial (no ret-con) identity. Three years from now, if a coworker asked "what's the detail with Captain Marvel," do immediately talk about Danvers or inquire which one? What other iconic comic book character has that issue?
Three years does not an icon make (again, with the very rare exception, see Star Wars). If that coworker comes up to you in 15, 20 years and asks what the deal is with Captain Marvel, it will almost certainly be because they want to know more about Carol Danvers. The other Captains Marvel will be fun, historical footnotes you can bring up to confuse and/or impress your friends. Those footnotes won't change how your friends look at the Carol Danvers character.
I have felt Danvers had been rammed down our throats the last 10yrs to make us acknowledge her as an icon for Marvel (a habit Marvel has been frequenting the last 5 years). I wasn't around when Diana hit the stands, so I can't same she had the same beginnings to iconic status.
Has ANY icon in the genre been rammed down our throats as an icon?*
* If you think Stark is an icon, I'd say he's been rammed down our throats since RDJ's version too.
If Carol Danvers has been rammed down our throats—I wouldn’t know as I don't read any of the core Marvel titles—it’s simply because Marvel is trying to establish new brands to reach new markets so they can make more money. They’re doing what they’ve always done—they try to find the hot trend and cash in on it. In the process, they flood the market with like-minded product until those books stop selling. They did it in the ’40s with superhero books and teen humor books and western books. They did it in the ’50s with war books and romance books and horror books. They did it in the ’60s with superheroes again, after seeing the resurgence happening at DC. They did it with horror-oriented heroes and exploitation characters in the ’70s. When the X-Men were at their peak in the early ’90s, they put out a bajillion X-Men books.
It’s simply what they do.
They’re not trying to make icons. They’re trying to make money.
As for Wonder Woman, if any iconic comic character was explicitly designed to reach a certain market, it was Wonder Woman. Marston himself described Wonder Woman as “psychological propaganda”. She first appeared in All-Star Comics #8 the secretary of the JSA as a way to promote her upcoming feature in Sensation Comics, which soon expanded to her own book. Batman and Superman rarely appeared in the JSA stories, and even then only as cameos, but Wonder Woman was in every issue, albeit in a rather insignificant role. Her titles were never on a level with DC’s best sellers, but she still was one of the five superheroes DC kept active through the entirity of the ’50s. But I don’t think the character could really be considered an icon until the late ’60s, early ’70s and the rise of feminism.
Her rise to icon status came down to timing, resonance, and a bit of nostalgia. So I don’t see why the same can’t happen with Carol Danvers at some point down the line.
In three years, Danvers will be in at least 2 movies, one of which a solo film. Your earlier post was about the targeted audience not knowing about Batson or Mar-Vell. With at least 2 movie appearances, Danvers doesn't need to be Batman/Kent/Diana/Parker/Banner level to be where the GotG are now.
I'm not reading Marvel either, but every time I see a promo for something big in Marvel, she seems front & center. Just like they did with Wolverine.
I can see why everyone is comparing Carol to Diana, given that Marvel has been propping up Captain Marvel for the last few years as the poster child for girl power... obviously "grooming" the character for film.
I have two young daughters, both of who most likely read more super hero comics then the average elementary school aged girl. They were both very excited to see the new Wonder Woman film, and I was excited to have a female centric film for them to watch. We all enjoyed it, and I was pretty happy that DC didn't drop the ball. However, as much as both my daughters liked the movie, neither of them would place Wonder Woman in their top five female heroes (and although they know who she is, Captain Marvel isn't even on the radar). For them it is ALL about Black Widow and to a lesser degree Scarlet Witch, and even Gamora (and for some strange reason, my 11 year old LOVES Moonstone from the Thunderbolts).
In my opinion, Marvel blew it when they passed up the opportunity to give Scarlett Johansson a Black Widow feature, and beat DC to the punch with the first female lead release.
It's weird, I've always thought Sue Richards was more Marvel's leading female character. Admittedly, I can't fathom a solo movie or title being successful, but she always seemed to have the same strength as Diana.
I really can't understand why Marvel is frightful of a solo Widow movie. I know the Elektra & Catwoman movies failed & that makes them gunshy, but she's had enough groundwork to be less a gamble then the solo Danvers movie. Is this another example of her being throat rammed?!
I'm interested to hear the geeks response as I haven't listened to the WW review podcast yet. Did @Dani make an appearance? I'll tune in this evening.
I found the article from Slate. She admitted to not liking superhero movies in general & was unaware the same thing happened in Thor. She claims not to be able to tell the "white Chrises about."
The second article was one of the most ridiculous ones I've read about Wonder Woman; specifically regarding the size of women. Patty Jenkins commented she cast women athletes as Amazons; MMA fighters, boxers, etc. How many overweight female athletes are there? I could understand criticism if she cast supermodels, but she used actual bad ass women.
Look, not everyone has to like this movie, but at what point do people put don't their agenda checklists & stop being so nit picky?!
In three years, Danvers will be in at least 2 movies, one of which a solo film. Your earlier post was about the targeted audience not knowing about Batson or Mar-Vell. With at least 2 movie appearances, Danvers doesn't need to be Batman/Kent/Diana/Parker/Banner level to be where the GotG are now.
That’s true, but I was addressing, however poorly, your thought that the reused name disqualifies Captain Marvel from becoming an icon. My point is that I think that if Captain Marvel is going to ever be considered an icon, it will—as was the case with Wonder Woman—take a long gestation period before that can happen.
Only been one Jennifer Walters / She-Hulk with pretty much the same look since she was conceived in the late 70's. I like the character more than Carol Danvers' iterations, but I don't know if she's a bigger icon. Her longest running title volume went a further distance than any Captain Marvel titles have, although Ms Marvel has been featured in TV animations. I also know of several female athletes who are familiar with She-Hulk, even if they have never read the comic.
Then again the cover of Fireside's tpb 'The Superhero Women' by Stan Lee features Sue Storm, Medusa, Red Sonja, Black Widow, The Wasp, Hela, and Ms. Marvel... no She-Hulk. Of course it was printed in 1977 and She Hulk didn't debut until 1979... it's a draw!
Only been one Jennifer Walters / She-Hulk with pretty much the same look since she was conceived in the late 70's. I like the character more than Carol Danvers' iterations, but I don't know if she's a bigger icon. Her longest running title volume went a further distance than any Captain Marvel titles have, although Ms Marvel has been featured in TV animations. I also know of several female athletes who are familiar with She-Hulk, even if they have never read the comic.
Then again the cover of Fireside's tpb 'The Superhero Women' by Stan Lee features Sue Storm, Medusa, Red Sonja, Black Widow, The Wasp, Hela, and Ms. Marvel... no She-Hulk. Of course it was printed in 1977 and She Hulk didn't debut until 1979... it's a draw!
I'd put it this way; which is a more household name:
She-Hulk Captain Marvel/Danvers Ms. Marvel
That's how I'd assess the bigger female icon.
Again, I think there's really only 5 iconic comic book characters. Maybe a few more that are standing at the doors of the Pantheon, but only 5 inside.
Only been one Jennifer Walters / She-Hulk with pretty much the same look since she was conceived in the late 70's. I like the character more than Carol Danvers' iterations, but I don't know if she's a bigger icon. Her longest running title volume went a further distance than any Captain Marvel titles have, although Ms Marvel has been featured in TV animations. I also know of several female athletes who are familiar with She-Hulk, even if they have never read the comic.
Then again the cover of Fireside's tpb 'The Superhero Women' by Stan Lee features Sue Storm, Medusa, Red Sonja, Black Widow, The Wasp, Hela, and Ms. Marvel... no She-Hulk. Of course it was printed in 1977 and She Hulk didn't debut until 1979... it's a draw!
I'd put it this way; which is a more household name:
She-Hulk Captain Marvel/Danvers Ms. Marvel
That's how I'd assess the bigger female icon.
Again, I think there's really only 5 iconic comic book characters. Maybe a few more that are standing at the doors of the Pantheon, but only 5 inside.
And I would say, none of the above. That’s my point. None of them are in any way approaching even a household name level of public awareness, much less icon status. I'd say of those three, Ms. Marvel (the current) is at least a couple of rungs up the ladder, thanks to her visibility in school book fairs and libraries, but even she has a long way to go—that is to say, a hit movie or two to go.
Only been one Jennifer Walters / She-Hulk with pretty much the same look since she was conceived in the late 70's. I like the character more than Carol Danvers' iterations, but I don't know if she's a bigger icon. Her longest running title volume went a further distance than any Captain Marvel titles have, although Ms Marvel has been featured in TV animations. I also know of several female athletes who are familiar with She-Hulk, even if they have never read the comic.
Then again the cover of Fireside's tpb 'The Superhero Women' by Stan Lee features Sue Storm, Medusa, Red Sonja, Black Widow, The Wasp, Hela, and Ms. Marvel... no She-Hulk. Of course it was printed in 1977 and She Hulk didn't debut until 1979... it's a draw!
I'd put it this way; which is a more household name:
She-Hulk Captain Marvel/Danvers Ms. Marvel
That's how I'd assess the bigger female icon.
Again, I think there's really only 5 iconic comic book characters. Maybe a few more that are standing at the doors of the Pantheon, but only 5 inside.
And I would say, none of the above. That’s my point. None of them are in any way approaching even a household name level of public awareness, much less icon status. I'd say of those three, Ms. Marvel (the current) is at least a couple of rungs up the ladder, thanks to her visibility in school book fairs and libraries, but even she has a long way to go—that is to say, a hit movie or two to go.
I should've corrected my listing to "Ms Marvel/Danvers". Quite frankly, I forgot there's another person using that name.
At this point, I get this feeling more people have at least heard of She-Hulk (sharing part of an iconic character doesn't hurt). I'm betting if you ask a civilian "whose Captain Marvel", they'll be a lot of "isn't it Captain America?"
I think it's clear that Matt and I don't think Captain Marvel is as big a deal as Eric (or Marvel) does.
Haha
Currently Captain Marvel isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Neither is She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel (either one) or 99.9% of the Big Two’s characters. All I've been saying is that the character has the potential to be a big deal. When Superman was created, it was passed on by several publishers before National took a chance on it. It happened to be the right character with the right story at the right time, and it took off and grew over years of development and expansion into other media. Who knows when or if Captain Marvel’s right story and right time will come, but the potential is there, as it is with many other comic book characters.
At this point, I get this feeling more people have at least heard of She-Hulk (sharing part of an iconic character doesn't hurt). I'm betting if you ask a civilian "whose Captain Marvel", they'll be a lot of "isn't it Captain America?"
What you’re talking about is maybe 400,000 people have heard of She-Hulk, and only 350,000 people have heard of Captain Marvel. The difference is infinitesimal when you compare them to the millions upon millions of people who know Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. To make a baseball analogy, She-Hulk is batting .320 in A-league, and Captain Marvel is batting .301 in the same league, but most baseball fans have no idea who they are because they’re in A-league, and nowhere near the major league level yet.
I think it's clear that Matt and I don't think Captain Marvel is as big a deal as Eric (or Marvel) does.
Haha
Currently Captain Marvel isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Neither is She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel (either one) or 99.9% of the Big Two’s characters. All I've been saying is that the character has the potential to be a big deal. When Superman was created, it was passed on by several publishers before National took a chance on it. It happened to be the right character with the right story at the right time, and it took off and grew over years of development and expansion into other media. Who knows when or if Captain Marvel’s right story and right time will come, but the potential is there, as it is with many other comic book characters.
At this point, I get this feeling more people have at least heard of She-Hulk (sharing part of an iconic character doesn't hurt). I'm betting if you ask a civilian "whose Captain Marvel", they'll be a lot of "isn't it Captain America?"
What you’re talking about is maybe 400,000 people have heard of She-Hulk, and only 350,000 people have heard of Captain Marvel. The difference is infinitesimal when you compare them to the millions upon millions of people who know Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. To make a baseball analogy, She-Hulk is batting .320 in A-league, and Captain Marvel is batting .301 in the same league, but most baseball fans have no idea who they are because they’re in A-league, and nowhere near the major league level yet.
I think it's clear that Matt and I don't think Captain Marvel is as big a deal as Eric (or Marvel) does.
Haha
Currently Captain Marvel isn’t a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Neither is She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel (either one) or 99.9% of the Big Two’s characters. All I've been saying is that the character has the potential to be a big deal. When Superman was created, it was passed on by several publishers before National took a chance on it. It happened to be the right character with the right story at the right time, and it took off and grew over years of development and expansion into other media. Who knows when or if Captain Marvel’s right story and right time will come, but the potential is there, as it is with many other comic book characters.
At this point, I get this feeling more people have at least heard of She-Hulk (sharing part of an iconic character doesn't hurt). I'm betting if you ask a civilian "whose Captain Marvel", they'll be a lot of "isn't it Captain America?"
What you’re talking about is maybe 400,000 people have heard of She-Hulk, and only 350,000 people have heard of Captain Marvel. The difference is infinitesimal when you compare them to the millions upon millions of people who know Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. To make a baseball analogy, She-Hulk is batting .320 in A-league, and Captain Marvel is batting .301 in the same league, but most baseball fans have no idea who they are because they’re in A-league, and nowhere near the major league level yet.
That’s because I pretty much agree with everything you said in that post—at least as far as the short-term is concerned. Captain Marvel most likely will not do as well as Wonder Woman, though stranger things have happened. However, I can see a Captain Marvel II doing as well as a Wonder Woman II, or failing that a Captain Marvel III doing as well as a Wonder Woman III. I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but the potential is there. You never know what will catch fire.
It's weird, I've always thought Sue Richards was more Marvel's leading female character. Admittedly, I can't fathom a solo movie or title being successful, but she always seemed to have the same strength as Diana.
I would agree with this... Until my eldest daughter started to watch Captain America: Winter Soldier on a never ending loop, in her eyes the Invisible Woman was the pinnacle of female super heroics. Unfortunately Sue's star has lost its shine. Let's face it, Marvel isn't even publishing a book that has the Invisible Woman in it, and the odds of Sue getting any credible screen time before my girl graduates from high school is pretty much zero. That has definitely had an impact on Sue's popularity. At least with my daughter.
It will be interesting to see if the girls request any Wonder Woman comics now that she has been brought to their attention through the film.
It's weird, I've always thought Sue Richards was more Marvel's leading female character. Admittedly, I can't fathom a solo movie or title being successful, but she always seemed to have the same strength as Diana.
I would agree with this... Until my eldest daughter started to watch Captain America: Winter Soldier on a never ending loop, in her eyes the Invisible Woman was the pinnacle of female super heroics. Unfortunately Sue's star has lost its shine. Let's face it, Marvel isn't even publishing a book that has the Invisible Woman in it, and the odds of Sue getting any credible screen time before my girl graduates from high school is pretty much zero. That has definitely had an impact on Sue's popularity. At least with my daughter.
It will be interesting to see if the girls request any Wonder Woman comics now that she has been brought to their attention through the film.
Sue USED to be front and center, and then the movies happened...
Comments
I have felt Danvers had been rammed down our throats the last 10yrs to make us acknowledge her as an icon for Marvel (a habit Marvel has been frequenting the last 5 years). I wasn't around when Diana hit the stands, so I can't same she had the same beginnings to iconic status.
Has ANY icon in the genre been rammed down our throats as an icon?*
* If you think Stark is an icon, I'd say he's been rammed down our throats since RDJ's version too.
I don't see Stark as an icon. RDJ as Stark, yes, but that's as far as that character is going. I'd even throw Wolverine more so into the mix, which felt more organic (prior to New Avengers) then the throat ramming of Danvers & Stark...and I don't consider Wolverine to be an icon.
I have two young daughters, both of who most likely read more super hero comics then the average elementary school aged girl. They were both very excited to see the new Wonder Woman film, and I was excited to have a female centric film for them to watch. We all enjoyed it, and I was pretty happy that DC didn't drop the ball. However, as much as both my daughters liked the movie, neither of them would place Wonder Woman in their top five female heroes (and although they know who she is, Captain Marvel isn't even on the radar). For them it is ALL about Black Widow and to a lesser degree Scarlet Witch, and even Gamora (and for some strange reason, my 11 year old LOVES Moonstone from the Thunderbolts).
In my opinion, Marvel blew it when they passed up the opportunity to give Scarlett Johansson a Black Widow feature, and beat DC to the punch with the first female lead release.
It’s simply what they do.
They’re not trying to make icons. They’re trying to make money.
As for Wonder Woman, if any iconic comic character was explicitly designed to reach a certain market, it was Wonder Woman. Marston himself described Wonder Woman as “psychological propaganda”. She first appeared in All-Star Comics #8 the secretary of the JSA as a way to promote her upcoming feature in Sensation Comics, which soon expanded to her own book. Batman and Superman rarely appeared in the JSA stories, and even then only as cameos, but Wonder Woman was in every issue, albeit in a rather insignificant role. Her titles were never on a level with DC’s best sellers, but she still was one of the five superheroes DC kept active through the entirity of the ’50s. But I don’t think the character could really be considered an icon until the late ’60s, early ’70s and the rise of feminism.
Her rise to icon status came down to timing, resonance, and a bit of nostalgia. So I don’t see why the same can’t happen with Carol Danvers at some point down the line.
I'm not reading Marvel either, but every time I see a promo for something big in Marvel, she seems front & center. Just like they did with Wolverine.
Apparently it's true; you can't please everyone.
I'm interested to hear the geeks response as I haven't listened to the WW review podcast yet. Did @Dani make an appearance? I'll tune in this evening.
I really can't understand why Marvel is frightful of a solo Widow movie. I know the Elektra & Catwoman movies failed & that makes them gunshy, but she's had enough groundwork to be less a gamble then the solo Danvers movie. Is this another example of her being throat rammed?!
Apparently it's true; you can't please everyone.
I'm interested to hear the geeks response as I haven't listened to the WW review podcast yet. Did @Dani make an appearance? I'll tune in this evening.
I found the article from Slate. She admitted to not liking superhero movies in general & was unaware the same thing happened in Thor. She claims not to be able to tell the "white Chrises about."
The second article was one of the most ridiculous ones I've read about Wonder Woman; specifically regarding the size of women. Patty Jenkins commented she cast women athletes as Amazons; MMA fighters, boxers, etc. How many overweight female athletes are there? I could understand criticism if she cast supermodels, but she used actual bad ass women.
Look, not everyone has to like this movie, but at what point do people put don't their agenda checklists & stop being so nit picky?!
But She-Hulk? Nah. Both are so far down the icon scale, any difference is negligible.
Then again the cover of Fireside's tpb 'The Superhero Women' by Stan Lee features Sue Storm, Medusa, Red Sonja, Black Widow, The Wasp, Hela, and Ms. Marvel... no She-Hulk. Of course it was printed in 1977 and She Hulk didn't debut until 1979... it's a draw!
She-Hulk
Captain Marvel/Danvers
Ms. Marvel
That's how I'd assess the bigger female icon.
Again, I think there's really only 5 iconic comic book characters. Maybe a few more that are standing at the doors of the Pantheon, but only 5 inside.
Haha
At this point, I get this feeling more people have at least heard of She-Hulk (sharing part of an iconic character doesn't hurt). I'm betting if you ask a civilian "whose Captain Marvel", they'll be a lot of "isn't it Captain America?"
http://thecomicforums.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/104871/#Comment_104871
Cyborg is my #1 longstanding and most egregious example. More recently and to a slightly lesser extent... Batwoman.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/attendees-at-women-only-screening-of-wonder-woman-given-gift-bag-containing-diet-pill-pamphlet-and-a7789076.html?amp
Objectively, I would've liked to see if gift bags are commonplace for the theatre chain and, if so, examples of items in those gift bags.
Until my eldest daughter started to watch Captain America: Winter Soldier on a never ending loop, in her eyes the Invisible Woman was the pinnacle of female super heroics. Unfortunately Sue's star has lost its shine. Let's face it, Marvel isn't even publishing a book that has the Invisible Woman in it, and the odds of Sue getting any credible screen time before my girl graduates from high school is pretty much zero. That has definitely had an impact on Sue's popularity. At least with my daughter.
It will be interesting to see if the girls request any Wonder Woman comics now that she has been brought to their attention through the film.