Wonder Woman (spoilers)-- Seen it? Discuss it here.
David_D
Posts: 3,884
Have at it!
David_D
Posts: 3,884
Comments
I'm hoping this movie is really good, but the more I see/read, the more it seems to be an elephant in the room about its influence.
Here are my thoughts on the film. Contains Spoilers.
I enjoyed the ever-loving, blue-eyed crap out of this.
The move to The Great War was acknowledged to have been made in order to lessen the similarity, and was an inspired choice.
So far, I've yet to see anyone gripe about it "aping" Lord of the Rings with Diana's breaching of No Man's Land. Her just climbing up and doing so, rather than declaring "I am no man!" helped. The payoff of finally revealing the costume was magnificent. And the ensuing set piece through the destruction of the steeple, is my favorite superhero action sequence since the freighter attack in Cap 2.
I was also pleased with the evisceration of my second-most-hated movie cliché: beauty disguised by glasses.
The move to the Great War would easily make sense to distance itself from First Avenger, but still use its coattails. Like Suicide Squad did with GotG (though hopefully WW is an actual huge success).
I'm glad they used the template (also Donner's Superman; especially the alley homage scene). I think using things like the present-day bookends, the Howling Commando-type crew, Captain Trevor's fate were missteps in the story.
Overall the film is good but there are some odd pacing moments that could have been better. There were also a lot of unnecessary closeups of Gal Gadot's face. It pulled me out of the film each time they did it. It reminded of the poses in Amazing Spiderman which lingered on to long.
Going forward, do they just ignore WWII and anything that happened inbetween WWI and BVS? The sequel moves to a contemporary setting?
A WWII set JSA movie led by Wonder Woman may be asking too much but I can dream
...they're going to expect all DC movies to be this flipping awesome now! :smiley:
I still had a great time and my wife and 7 year old daughter loved it.
But honestly, I was still looking for them in this one.
I LOVED the movie though. Very inspiring. Now Marvel needs to invest HARD in Captain Marvel. It actually has something to LIVE UP TO instead of shooting to set the bar in the first place.
The trench scene was inspiring
IMO this was easily one of the most difficult properties to film. Especially well and believably and to satisfy the many varied fans tastes. They did as good a job as I could hope. A huge feat for DC/WB and very unexpected from them. but pleased.
Not the best movie or best comic book movie, but good and enjoyable and rewatchable. I was ok w the casting and still don't think gal is "all that", but there were shots, especially with her smiling where she was breathtaking and lit up the screen. Very pleased and hope they learn from its success.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/
That's one of the best drops for any superhero film. MOS, BvS and SS all dropped in the mid to high 60's. Even the Marvel films drop somewhere in the 50's. So this bodes for very well for a great run.
If 2008 is considered the start of the modern era of comic book movies, then Wonder Woman IS the lowest drop.
Besides, Captain Marvel is barely a blip on the radar globally and will be a far more difficult sell. Her character isn't nearly as universally known as Diana Prince. I'm not saying they can't do a good story with Carol Danvers, nor am I saying they shouldn't bother, but it will be a miracle if it is able to put up even Doctor Strange or Ant-Man BO numbers. She may have a more impressive power set than Diana, but Carol doesn't have same legendary icon status. As far as I'm concerned, this was the last big hit for solo character films for the DCEU, and frankly Marvel doesn't have anything beyond Black Panther that could do as big of numbers that isn't a sequel. For that matter, I don't even expect Ant-Man & The Wasp or Spider-Man Homecoming to do bigger box office. Avengers and Justice League are a different matter.
That said, Captain Marvel can potentially be a great story and I hope Marvel continues to bring their A-game with her debut, but Wonder Woman will not be matched overall by any other female hero movie - in my estimation. I'd be happy to hear of any other female superhero character film properties that you guys think could pull his off though, and I hope there are many more on the horizon, if for nothing else, to brighten up the hearts of girls worldwide to be better people and live up to their full potential. My daughter and I both enjoyed it far more than we expected to.
Thank you Patty Jenkins, DC/WB, and Gail Gadot.
As for her potential to be an icon, with very rare exceptions, icons aren't made overnight. They are built on a foundation of timing, resonance, and nostalgia. Who knows how people will think of the character 15, 20 years from now. No one ever thought the Guardians of the Galaxy would become a household name, but there they are. Though, of course, it remains to be seen if they will still be relevant in 20 years.
This is Disney we're talking about. As long as Captain Marvel movies make money, Disney will keep making them. The more Captain Marvel movies they make, the better chance the character has at reaching icon status.
In 1960, Wonder Woman was selling around 200,000 issues a month. These numbers made her a lower-tier superhero book at DC in 1960, but a mid-range seller for the industry overall. In 1970, that number was around 172,000. And in 1987, it was close to 120,000. Today, no other female character comes close to her sales numbers (other than Harley Quinn, who falls just a bit short at 45k per month). Carol Danvers' Captain Marvel sells around 15-16K and has been around since 2012. And even though it isn't an "apples to apples" comparison like CM and WW, Guardians of the Galaxy comics only sell around 30k per issue today, so it will be a while before Star Lord or Gamora reach "icon status," if ever.
Super-Friends cartoons, Underoos, Ben Cooper Halloween costumes, dolls, t-shirts, et al, have all contributed to Wonder Woman's universal recognition. Same for Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Captain America, and so on. Not so with Ms. Marvel / Binary / Warbird / Captain Marvel. I'm not saying you need to be selling the highest number of comics or have the most action figures, but in order to be considered a "legendary" or "icon status" character, you should see a large amount of ancillary appearances in the pop culture. That's not the case with Carol Danvers, although she certainly will get a bump when the movie is released.
Even if the Captain Marvel movie is well-executed, profitable and warrants a sequel, Wonder Woman still has a 35-year head start and has been known world-wide for decades, so no, I stand by my belief Captain Marvel will never match the legendary status of Wonder Woman. DC has the winning hand with their trinity/legacy characters based on longevity alone. Sure, they could always screw it up, (like they've arguably been doing with Superman), but at the moment, they have the upper-hand in the female legendary icon column.
I'm just wondering why there has to be this “versus” angle. There’s plenty of room for both Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman to be popular figures. I don't know if Captain Marvel will ever become part of the popular zeitgeist or not, but does it really matter if she doesn’t? The character can still become a recognizable, money-making machine, and that’s all Disney really cares about anyway.