Wow, I had no idea. I'm very sorry to hear that. Not only did he design some of the most visually arresting characters I've ever seen (Spiderman, the Creeper, the world of Dr. Strange), but some of the stuff he wrote back in the late 60's/early 70's is fantastic IMO. Although I didn't agree with his Randian "objectivist" beliefs, I though the characters he created based on that philosophy are some of the most unusual but interesting comics ever written. (The early Mr. A, his version of the Question and the first 3 appearances of the original Hawk and Dove.) I went through a period of hunting down that Randian stuff about 10 years back and I loved every page. I would have loved to have read more. It's still utterly unique.
I love that story of an early Spider-Man issue, wherein Spidey is swinging over a crowd of protesters and Stan Lee had him say "Right on, brothers! Keep the faith!", while Ditko had intended for him to say "Look at all those dirty hippies! Get a job!".
My kind of guy.
He was one of the first artists I was able to identify. He had such a unique style that was so nuanced you couldn't tell who his influences were, and no one was able to ape him. Truly one of a kind.
This has been thebest and most in-depth article I found on Mr. Ditko's passing. He was definitely my favorite Spider-man artist.
While ASM #31, 32, 33 are the great issues typically discussed.... my favorite part of Steve Ditko's ASM run was the Green Goblin and Crime-Master stories between Issues #23 and #27, with #27 "Bring Back My Goblin to Me!" my favorite.
Tonebone, if you like Ditko's originally intended dialogue for Spidey over the hippies, you may want to check out his first 3 Hawk and Dove stories ( if you haven't already). I think they're available in trade. Their first Showcase appearance and issues 1 and 2 clearly had a lot of story input from Ditko, but Skeates took over with issue 2 or 3 and the series instantly loses all of the edge Ditko gave it. In Ditko's original version of the characters his sympathies clearly lie more with Hawk than Dove. Whether one agrees or disagrees with his politics, it certainly is refreshing to read something that departed from the decidedly liberal voice of 99.9% of comic book creators and popular art in general. I can imagine extremists on the left these days having big problems with it. I'm sure DC editorial was terrified of alienating their youth fan base back then (just like Stan lee was), but at least he was able to get his voice out there for a couple of issues.
His Question stories are also a hoot since they're so steeped in Randian philosophy, it's hard to describe them even as conservative. All of his stories are steeped in Randian thought, but Hawk and Dove would likely also appeal to conservatives. DC reprinted his one full length Question story in one of their Millenium reprints which you can probably find on eBay for a cheap price.
His early Mr. A stuff is also extremely Randian (and therefore appealing to anyone looking for unusual and unique takes on the "superhero" but not interested in stuff that's weird just for weird's sake -Ditko was no David Lynch) but I've never seen a complete collection of Mr. A reprints. Hopefully one day Craig Yoe can release something. The problem with some of his independent stuff like Mr A is that over time he seemed to become less interested in building an absorbing story around his ideas and is mostly just preaching. His artwork also became much more abstract.
...but I've never seen a complete collection of Mr. A reprints. Hopefully one day Craig Yoe can release something.
If anyone releases anything like that, it will most likely be Robin Snyder. I don't know if Ditko has any surviving kin outside of a nephew who could handle his estate. But Ditko worked with Snyder for years (in fact their last Kickstarter campaign just ended on July 4), so maybe he named Snyder his executor.
...but I've never seen a complete collection of Mr. A reprints. Hopefully one day Craig Yoe can release something.
If anyone releases anything like that, it will most likely be Robin Snyder. I don't know if Ditko has any surviving kin outside of a nephew who could handle his estate. But Ditko worked with Snyder for years (in fact their last Kickstarter campaign just ended on July 4), so maybe he named Snyder his executor.
The last Kickstarter said they've been working together for 26 years. That is a long time
I'll also echo the comment that Ditko was one of the earliest styles I could identify as a kid. Some of it I didn't much care for, some of it I LOVED. It just depended on the tone of the characters he was doing... I was always disappointed when Steve was on Micronauts, but adore his Doctor Strange.
https://youtu.be/xe21fi7wAxw As a huge fan of Ditko's Spider-Man for many years, I have to say, this both comes off as shocking and disappointing. How did one of the most compassionate and sympathizing heroes in the history become the creation of such an objectivist man with no mercy? This is truly heartbreaking.
I can't believe I'm saying this now... but thank god Ditko was gone. Goddammit.
Orius, I think the relief you take in a man dying is more than a little extreme considering Ditko was a non-violent recluse who wasn't bothering anyone, but thanks for that video. I had no idea Scott Snyder was also a Rand fan, and I now have even more reason to dislike those ridiculous lessons he allowed to be put in the mouths of the Kents. I'm more convinced than ever that the Clark Kent in MoS wouldve grown up to be a villain, or at the very least, a giant ahole. Or at least a much bigger one than whatever disaster of a character Cavill had to play until the Justice League redo.
https://youtu.be/xe21fi7wAxw As a huge fan of Ditko's Spider-Man for many years, I have to say, this both comes off as shocking and disappointing. How did one of the most compassionate and sympathizing heroes in the history become the creation of such an objectivist man with no mercy? This is truly heartbreaking.
I can't believe I'm saying this now... but thank god Ditko was gone. Goddammit.
So that is how you feel about people who believe different than you? Steve ditko was always respectful towards people who believed. He was always willing to talk to people about them and listen to others, but he was always respectful.
https://youtu.be/xe21fi7wAxw As a huge fan of Ditko's Spider-Man for many years, I have to say, this both comes off as shocking and disappointing. How did one of the most compassionate and sympathizing heroes in the history become the creation of such an objectivist man with no mercy? This is truly heartbreaking.
I can't believe I'm saying this now... but thank god Ditko was gone. Goddammit.
So that is how you feel about people who believe different than you? Steve ditko was always respectful towards people who believed. He was always willing to talk to people about them and listen to others, but he was always respectful.
Your comment is bigoted and intolerant.
I was saying I was glad he's gone from the book, you fucking moron. I was glad Stan kicked the shit out of him out of the book. Sue me, asshole. What'chu gonna do?
@Orius, I think you have this forum confused with the rest of the Internet. We do not refer to each other in such terms here. I can understand you being upset at the misunderstanding of your post, but that's no call for escalation. I can assure you @mwhitt80 simply misinterpreted your words, and he wasn't the only one. He is also not a moron, fucking or otherwise, nor is he an asshole, as you should be able to tell from his last response.
Stan didn't kick Ditko off the book. Ditko quit because he wasn't given the royalty he asked for and felt he (I think rightly) deserved. Stan wanted him to stay, because he was a good plotter and storyteller on a successful book.
The mark of a good creator is they can make convincing characters with perspectives different than themselves, and whatever you may think of Ditko, he was a great storyteller. That being said, Peter Parker would have been a different character from the outset without Stan's dialogue making him more universally likeable. I think it's telling that the characters created solely by Ditko are pretty obscure, even those created for DC.
Orius, I think the relief you take in a man dying is more than a little extreme considering Ditko was a non-violent recluse who wasn't bothering anyone, but thanks for that video. I had no idea Scott Snyder was also a Rand fan, and I now have even more reason to dislike those ridiculous lessons he allowed to be put in the mouths of the Kents. I'm more convinced than ever that the Clark Kent in MoS wouldve grown up to be a villain, or at the very least, a giant ahole. Or at least a much bigger one than whatever disaster of a character Cavill had to play until the Justice League redo.
Zack Snyder, not Scott. And I had a similar thought.
Orius, I think the relief you take in a man dying is more than a little extreme considering Ditko was a non-violent recluse who wasn't bothering anyone, but thanks for that video. I had no idea Scott Snyder was also a Rand fan, and I now have even more reason to dislike those ridiculous lessons he allowed to be put in the mouths of the Kents. I'm more convinced than ever that the Clark Kent in MoS wouldve grown up to be a villain, or at the very least, a giant ahole. Or at least a much bigger one than whatever disaster of a character Cavill had to play until the Justice League redo.
At age 33, how much more growing up would Kent have had in MoS? I mock the POV of millennials often times, but if you’re in your 20s (especially mid-20s) I’d say you were “grown up.”
True, but what I meant was the "grown up" adult Superman (the one we first meet working on the oil rig if I'm remembering correctly) should be a villain or a much bigger jerk than he is, given the only things Snyder shows us of his childhood/growing up (everyone except his parents is horrible to him) and the lesson the Kents repeatedly teach him: "humans are such horrible creatures that you'd be better off letting your own father die, rather than risk letting these monsters know what you are".
Why someone who'd spent the first 18 years of his life learning to dislike and fear humans on such a profound level from the only 2 people who ever loved and cared for him would then become a hero who would make it his life's mission to constantly go around saving humans remains MoS's unanswerable question IMO. Having his biological father show up once he's grown up and tell him that he should disregard everything his true parents and life experiences ever taught him and that his mission in life is to go around saving them because eventually you'll realize how awesome they really are (even though Jor-El has exactly zero experience living with humans) does not come anywhere near explaining the 180 degree change for me. I understand there are others who are fine with this explanation.
IMO Snyder and the screenwriters created an utterly botched attempt at "realism" - they gave us a more "realistic" origin, but conveniently decided to ignore "realism" whenever they needed to. As a result, many viewers -fans included - thought that the filmmakers "did not know what to do with" the superman character or "couldn't get a handle on him". IMO a lot of these problems begin with the giant disconnect between everything we see young Clark learn and everything we see grown up Superman do. All of this could have been avoided if they'd stuck closer to the original version of the Kents. There is nothing unrealistic about the lessons Glenn Ford teaches Christopher Reeve in the 1978 Superman film (that teen version of Clark didn't have an easy time of it either) and I see nothing more "realistic" about teaching your super son that "yeah you may want to let a bus full of kids die".
Again, this is all just my opinion. I understand you and others may disagree, but for me both MoS and Bats vs Supes are not just "not great" or "not a masterpiece" but badly written, especially in terms of characterization and the choices the writers made for the characters. (I need never see Jesse Eisenberg have to channel Heath Ledger's manic anything-goes energy as the Joker in order to play deliberate and calculating genius Lex Luthor again.)
True, but what I meant was the "grown up" adult Superman (the one we first meet working on the oil rig if I'm remembering correctly) should be a villain or a much bigger jerk than he is, given the only things Snyder shows us of his childhood/growing up (everyone except his parents is horrible to him) and the lesson the Kents repeatedly teach him: "humans are such horrible creatures that you'd be better off letting your own father die, rather than risk letting these monsters know what you are".
Why someone who'd spent the first 18 years of his life learning to dislike and fear humans on such a profound level from the only 2 people who ever loved and cared for him would then become a hero who would make it his life's mission to constantly go around saving humans remains MoS's unanswerable question IMO. Having his biological father show up once he's grown up and tell him that he should disregard everything his true parents and life experiences ever taught him and that his mission in life is to go around saving them because eventually you'll realize how awesome they really are (even though Jor-El has exactly zero experience living with humans) does not come anywhere near explaining the 180 degree change for me. I understand there are others who are fine with this explanation.
IMO Snyder and the screenwriters created an utterly botched attempt at "realism" - they gave us a more "realistic" origin, but conveniently decided to ignore "realism" whenever they needed to. As a result, many viewers -fans included - thought that the filmmakers "did not know what to do with" the superman character or "couldn't get a handle on him". IMO a lot of these problems begin with the giant disconnect between everything we see young Clark learn and everything we see grown up Superman do. All of this could have been avoided if they'd stuck closer to the original version of the Kents. There is nothing unrealistic about the lessons Glenn Ford teaches Christopher Reeve in the 1978 Superman film (that teen version of Clark didn't have an easy time of it either) and I see nothing more "realistic" about teaching your super son that "yeah you may want to let a bus full of kids die".
Again, this is all just my opinion. I understand you and others may disagree, but for me both MoS and Bats vs Supes are not just "not great" or "not a masterpiece" but badly written, especially in terms of characterization and the choices the writers made for the characters. (I need never see Jesse Eisenberg have to channel Heath Ledger's manic anything-goes energy as the Joker in order to play deliberate and calculating genius Lex Luthor again.)
You might convince me he’d be an isolationist, but (beyond disagreeing on how he was raised), I disagree he’d be a villain.
Comments
Always sad to see the greats leave us.
Thank You Mr. Ditko!
Thank you for all you did.
I’m convinced with Stan Lee our living so many of his contemporaries, he’s been taking the Infinity Formula.
My kind of guy.
He was one of the first artists I was able to identify. He had such a unique style that was so nuanced you couldn't tell who his influences were, and no one was able to ape him. Truly one of a kind.
The video I've linked to is a 2007, hour-long BBC4 Steve Ditko documentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwDnhMO8is
Nevertheless I learned a long time ago that Steve Ditko was one of greats, one of the reasons we all get to enjoy this medium.
I'm looking forward to the inevitable Spotlight on Steve Ditko!
While ASM #31, 32, 33 are the great issues typically discussed.... my favorite part of Steve Ditko's ASM run was the Green Goblin and Crime-Master stories between Issues #23 and #27, with #27 "Bring Back My Goblin to Me!" my favorite.
His Question stories are also a hoot since they're so steeped in Randian philosophy, it's hard to describe them even as conservative. All of his stories are steeped in Randian thought, but Hawk and Dove would likely also appeal to conservatives. DC reprinted his one full length Question story in one of their Millenium reprints which you can probably find on eBay for a cheap price.
His early Mr. A stuff is also extremely Randian (and therefore appealing to anyone looking for unusual and unique takes on the "superhero" but not interested in stuff that's weird just for weird's sake -Ditko was no David Lynch) but I've never seen a complete collection of Mr. A reprints. Hopefully one day Craig Yoe can release something. The problem with some of his independent stuff like Mr A is that over time he seemed to become less interested in building an absorbing story around his ideas and is mostly just preaching. His artwork also became much more abstract.
As a huge fan of Ditko's Spider-Man for many years, I have to say, this both comes off as shocking and disappointing. How did one of the most compassionate and sympathizing heroes in the history become the creation of such an objectivist man with no mercy? This is truly heartbreaking.
I can't believe I'm saying this now... but thank god Ditko was gone. Goddammit.
Steve ditko was always respectful towards people who believed. He was always willing to talk to people about them and listen to others, but he was always respectful.
Your comment is bigoted and intolerant.
Stan didn't kick Ditko off the book. Ditko quit because he wasn't given the royalty he asked for and felt he (I think rightly) deserved. Stan wanted him to stay, because he was a good plotter and storyteller on a successful book.
The mark of a good creator is they can make convincing characters with perspectives different than themselves, and whatever you may think of Ditko, he was a great storyteller. That being said, Peter Parker would have been a different character from the outset without Stan's dialogue making him more universally likeable. I think it's telling that the characters created solely by Ditko are pretty obscure, even those created for DC.
If he wants to talk to people like that, there are plenty of places online for him to do so.
Moving on.
Why someone who'd spent the first 18 years of his life learning to dislike and fear humans on such a profound level from the only 2 people who ever loved and cared for him would then become a hero who would make it his life's mission to constantly go around saving humans remains MoS's unanswerable question IMO. Having his biological father show up once he's grown up and tell him that he should disregard everything his true parents and life experiences ever taught him and that his mission in life is to go around saving them because eventually you'll realize how awesome they really are (even though Jor-El has exactly zero experience living with humans) does not come anywhere near explaining the 180 degree change for me. I understand there are others who are fine with this explanation.
IMO Snyder and the screenwriters created an utterly botched attempt at "realism" - they gave us a more "realistic" origin, but conveniently decided to ignore "realism" whenever they needed to. As a result, many viewers -fans included - thought that the filmmakers "did not know what to do with" the superman character or "couldn't get a handle on him". IMO a lot of these problems begin with the giant disconnect between everything we see young Clark learn and everything we see grown up Superman do. All of this could have been avoided if they'd stuck closer to the original version of the Kents. There is nothing unrealistic about the lessons Glenn Ford teaches Christopher Reeve in the 1978 Superman film (that teen version of Clark didn't have an easy time of it either) and I see nothing more "realistic" about teaching your super son that "yeah you may want to let a bus full of kids die".
Again, this is all just my opinion. I understand you and others may disagree, but for me both MoS and Bats vs Supes are not just "not great" or "not a masterpiece" but badly written, especially in terms of characterization and the choices the writers made for the characters. (I need never see Jesse Eisenberg have to channel Heath Ledger's manic anything-goes energy as the Joker in order to play deliberate and calculating genius Lex Luthor again.)