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Episode 1234 Talkback: DC's New 52: The Second Wave
Pants
Posts: 567
Six new titles from DC make up the 'Second Wave' of the New 52. We give the buy/borrow/pants treatment to Batman Incorporated, Dial H, Earth 2, GI Combat, The Ravagers and Worlds' Finest. (1:52:38)
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Comments
Worlds Finest -pass
Dial H - borrow
Earth 2 - buy
Ravagers - buy
2 more titles on my ever-expanding pull-list. Oh boy.
I don't see any problem at all with both a) considering the New 52 a clean slate on all characters and histories and b) accepting that some characters' histories in the new universe are largely identical to the old universe. Seems fine to me.
I'm considering nothing from the old universe as relevant unless it is referenced in the New 52, and even then I'm assuming it could be very different than I expect. In fact, I hope some writers will make use of the fact that we think we know certain things to lead us down a path, then subvert everything.
Matthew
That said, since this new relaunch Earth-1 has no significant history of supers stretching back to WWII (it doesn't seem to stretch back more than a few years), I knew this new Earth-2 couldn't be a legacy or retro setting....which begs the question "then why call it Earth-2?". Leave the Earth-2 legacy and concept alone and call it something else. The Earth-2 concept means something.
This comic itself: I found it pretty dull and couldn't really tell what they were trying to set up, other than "in this issue, heroes DIE!". A comic trope I dislike is when superheroes are dying in some last-ditch apocalyptic battle, with other heroes around to yell "NNOOOOOO!!!!". Maybe I've read too many Crises and What-Ifs, but most of the issue is that, so I was turned off.
World's Finest seems to be about a female duo who I am supposed to think are cute together, but I don't care. PG's new costume is unimaginative, but Huntress' is spot-on. And since I don't care about teh world they came from, it makes no difference to me that they came from somewhere else. I don't want to be told how cute a team they are, so that's another strike against it.
My rule for fiction in general is "just tell me a story". I don't feel like either of these issues told be a story. Instead, they told me that there was a story.
But this current DC regime has made it pretty clear that ALL new books are moving away for those original concepts. Frankly it's being done mostly so these depictions will not be beholden to any original creators or estates of said creators.
That said. Earth-2 is AWESOME and opens lots of possibilities of stories now that Robinson is able to play with this earth and universe.
BTW I wouldn't count on the idea that earth-2 SUPERMAN is truly dead.
I haven't read Earth-2; I'm reading in the distant past right now. However, I agree that having the big three in the JSA would have opened many doors for the writers on that series. It does seem to be an odd choice to limit their character choices to what they had before the relaunch.
I don't really care what they do to Power girl's costume. I like the character. If I want to see cleavage I will Google image some. To me the dynamic of Power girl's history is what has always interested me in her. Sure the cleavage window was a nice bonus. But that is all it was a bonus.
Worlds' Finest, though, was a different beast altogether. I was drawn in by the art (and how brilliant to find a way to get regular work out of two not-as-fast-as-they-used-to-be artists by having them share the same book and decreasing their required page counts!), but Levitz's characterizations of Helena and Karen won me over pretty quickly, and I was happy to see that continue in the second issue. If Earth 2 didn't feel, well, "Earth 2" enough, Huntress and Power Girl definitely feel more like their older selves, and the book is better for it. I'm most likely following this one for a while.
Batman Incorporated #1 was great, too, definitely a return to the form of the original run, even if I don't think the continuity still meshes more with pre-Flashpoint DC than post (not that I'm complaining... the Leviathan Strikes special gave us some additional Steph Brown content, and I hope Grant has enough mojo to bring her back here, too). Plus, Bat-Cow. I'm fan. I dropped the regular Batman book - Night of the Owls just wasn't doing it for me, and neither was the price tag - but I've already added this one to my pull.
But when it comes to killing characters, in general, you have to admit that in superhero comics it goes back way before Identity Crisis. Whether for drama (when it is done well) or for shock (when it is basically the same thing, but done poorly).
In books that are all based around violent conflict, characters are going to die. But, of course, it comes down to whether it is done well or poorly. And I can understand being burnt out on character deaths, as they have been overused by superhero comics in general the last few years.
But to get to Earth 2 #1, for me, the death of the Trinity in Earth 2 was not merely there to say "look how real we are". It wasn't just snuff to show that it is a violent setting. Rather, it was a major part of the premise of the book,
Just as 52 explored a year when the Trinity were out of action and other heroes needed to step up, Earth 2 is a world where the "Age of Wonders" has already passed, and the deaths of those characters changed the world.
The story, set five years later, shows a world that has been hugely affected by the deaths of those characters. And, when a new threat comes, the next generation of heroes has to step up "In a World Without Heroes", as the cover copy suggests.
Now, you may not have liked the on-panel violence of those character deaths, and fair enough (though we've seen worse). But I would argue that it is not just there to shock, because so far the entire premise of the book has been about the consequences of those deaths. And the death of these characters resonates through World's Finest, as well. They were not a throwaway, they were the main thing that makes the Earth in this book different from the one in most of the rest of the books. When you take that much time to explore the consequences of those deaths, I think it no longer is snuff. It is not the story stopping to titillate with violence. It is drama, because it moves the story forward.
Just seems like a huge missed opportunity to me. But, of course, I greatly prefer Earth 2 Classic to what we've glimpsed of New
CokeEarth (and, to be honest, a lot of other DC properties, too, pre- and post-Flashpoint), so I'm admittedly biased. My mileage may vary. And that's okay, because there are still plenty of comics to read out there that'll give me the sort of storytelling I'm after.If people are reading and enjoying this book, that's awesome. May we all find comics we enjoy. But it's not my bag, babies.
I passed Dial H and Batman Inc and GI Combat. The concept for Dial H didn't pull me in enough to want to give it a try. I couldn't get into the first run of Batman Inc so I passed on the second. As for GI Combat, I have always a hard time getting into war/military style books in general, doesn't mean I won't check it out at some point.
Earth 2 - A lot of what Murd said, I don't think killing off the Trinity had to be done. I really would have liked this to take place in the 40's also. However, I didn't get my hopes up going into it, I was able to read this without keeping too strong of an anchor to what came before and I enjoyed it.
World's Finest - I rushed through reading this, I'll need to go through it again.
Ravagers - I haven't read this one yet. Not sure I want to now, and unfortunatley I'm stuck with the second issue. In general I would rather have seen a new take on Gen 13 instead of this.
Personally, I think the rest of the issue makes it clear what these characters meant to the world. I would say their deaths were not just to show that anything can happen. Rather, the point is that this big, world changing thing DID happen, and because of it, Earth 2 will be a very different setting. And I also think the idea that the Batman of this world had his daughter as Robin (arguably the most clear change shown of all the trinity) is meant to be a hook to get you to read World's Finest. I would imagine someone reading that book will get to know that Batman in flashbacks, given who the Huntress in that book is.
But I agree that not much time is spent getting to know the Earth 2 trinity before they are dead. I don't mind, though, because it is not their book. And we already have all sorts of varieties and flavors of Wonder Woman, Superman, and especially Batman, on offer, so the fact that they are absent from this book is actually one of the things that makes it most interesting to me. There may yet be flashbacks about them, we'll see, I sort of hope not. I would rather that be time spent on characters that will only be seen in this book. So while I can understand that the opportunity to explore the Earth-2 trinity is missed, I would rather gain the opportunity to get to know the characters that are unique to Earth-2. (As well as spend more time with the Michael Holt Mister Terrific- thankfully being written by a better writer than his solo book).
But that doesn't mean that the presence of the dead heroes is discounted. It is already clear that Jay Garrick is going to be measuring himself against the legacy of those dead heroes. I'll bet once these characters are revealed to the public, the public (who clearly are still very much mourning the trinity five years later) will also compare them against that legacy. And World's Finest is about their surviving relatives, so who their death is a huge, formative experience to the characters from that book.
I just don't think it was a throwaway. I think that it was a huge event that sets the premise of the book.
But, as you said, mileage may vary.
As for the trinity, Superman and Batman only made cameo appearances in All-Star #7 and All-Star #36—they were only honorary members. And although they were retro-fitted into the team in the ’70s, I don’t really think of them as JSAers. Wonder Woman didn’t join the team until All-Star #12, and even then it was only as Secretary. She appeared in nearly every issue, but outside of issue #12, she never had a solo chapter like everyone else on the team. She didn’t become an active participant in the adventures until near the end of the series.
The trinity were the heroes who inspired the rest to become heroes—just as they apparently are in Earth 2. James knows his DC history, and I would not be at all surprised if this is at least part of the reason he (and DC—let’s not assume he’s been given free rein) chose to kill off the Big Three.
From a writer’s perspective, I would kill them off too. “New” characters or not, Bats, Supes, and Wondy come with a lot of baggage. If I’m trying to build a new world with new twists and new surprises, I want as little baggage to deal with as possible. James has shown in the past that he’s at his best when dealing with new or unknown/discarded characters—characters without any baggage. Yeah, the JSA characters do have a recognition factor and a certain amount of baggage, but not nearly on the scale of the trinity. So I’m perfectly happy to have them out of the way.
By the by, China Mieville is one of the brightest voices in speculative fiction these days, and his two biggest strengths are his world-building and his use of language, both of which are apparent in Dial H. I was looking forward to this book just as much as I was Earth 2, and I think it’s off to a good start. And yes, Murd, he will be coming up with some crazy characters.
The best advice is to read it and judge it yourself.
;)