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Episode 1253 - 'The Dark Knight Rises' Movie Review

PantsPants Posts: 567
edited July 2012 in CGS Episodes & Spin-Offs
'The Dark Knight Rises' movie has finally arrived and a room full of Geeks give their thoughts on it. (1:25:04)

Listen here.
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Comments

  • davefaustdavefaust Posts: 24
    Great episode guys. One story I thought influenced the film quite a bit is Batman: The Cult, which was a very pleasant surprise since it's one of my favorites.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Get ready to be sick of my voice again. I've added my predictions for the movie. As with the original claim months ago, based on the storylines and trailers, I proclaimed I knew 80-90% of the major plot points in the movie. During the 'Road to...' episode I acknowledged that besides what I thought was the prologue and the epilogue (which were both in there), I knew what happened, but not the exact order.

    Dark Knight Rises Major Plot Points
    • Starts off with a scene in the past with a young Ra’s
    o Some type of lead in for a future reveal – possibly a baby’s birth
    • Bane’s aerial escape
    • Selina’s arrival into Gotham
    • Bruce has been secluded in Wayne Manor for years
    o Unkempt, sickly, and using a cane
    • Bruce attempts to return to Wayne Enterprises
    o Includes going for a physical which reviews all of the injuries from TDK
    o Meets up with Lucius Fox – shows him the new toys
    o Meets Miranda Tate – she begins to try to get him in back into the world
    • Harvey Dent Day
    o The discussion of Gordon’s firing
    o Miranda Tate further flirts with Bruce
    o Bruce meets with Selina
    -She steals his wallet
    -She steals his car
    o Bruce has Alfred pick him up – “takes time to get back into the swing of things”
    • Selina steals from Wayne Manor – takes the pearls
    • Bane’s arrival into Gotham
    o Takes down Gotham’s Wall Street
    o Gordon injured
    o Bane begins trap for Batman
    - Bruce becomes Batman again – Alfred reminds Bruce he is no longer Batman
    - Trap in sewers – includes taunting by Catwoman
    • Fight with Bane – “Mr. Wayne”
    • Batman loses – “When Gotham is in ashes…”
    • Selina witnesses
    • Bruce and Alfred wind up in an underground prison
    o Bruce retrains
    o Uses well as a way to test his training
    • Bane takes over Gotham
    o Stadium and bridges blown, prisoners released
    o Uses Wayne Enterprises equipment (Tumblers) to help takeover city
    • Bruce returns to Gotham
    o Meets with Fox
    o Heads for hidden bunker for gear
    • Batman works to take back Gotham
    o Teams up with Catwoman
    o Fights along side the police department – “War” (similar to Batman in DKR using Mutants)
    • Batman v. Bane
    o Daytime fight
    o Brutal fight
    o Bane stopped – Batman dead? (some kind of Ra’s type switch similar to Batman Begins)
    • Catwoman escapes – later seen at an airport with the large hat
    • Epilogue: A promoted Blake locates Selina in an upscale apartment
    o “A girls gotta eat”
    o Blake inquires if “they killed” Bruce/Batman & where he is

    Major Events:
    1. Gordon knows who Batman really is
    2. Gordon or Alfred dies
    3. Blake gets a promotion – possibly the new commissioner
    4. Miranda Tate revealed as Talia – provided Bane with the Tumblers
    5. The “Legend Ends” marketing is really a reference to Batman’s “crimes” at the end of TDK
    6. Ending will mirror Dark Knight Returns where Bruce is though possibly dead and training others
    7. Ra’s makes a cameo – behind Bane?


    Besides the nuclear bit, Blake's fate, and Bruce going bankrupt, I think I hit all of the other plot points.

    M.
  • GregGreg Posts: 1,946
    Good review guys.

    I was really enjoying the movie up until the ending and I think it was all in how it was laid out, not what the ending actually was. My wife was really into this movie more than I was and she left the theater saying the ending killed it for her too. I lost evey bit of enjoyment and felt like I wasted the time and money for nothing.
  • MarkRojasMarkRojas Posts: 22
    I agree with the key points of this review, It was epic, It incorporated great story elements that called back to the previous films, especially Batman Begins.

    Anne Hathaway was great.

    Great conclusion to the Saga. I was reminded of Empire Strikes Back when everything just kept getting worse, how is it going to clear up!?!

    Loved when you guys brought up the 1960's Batman.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Greg said:

    Good review guys.

    I was really enjoying the movie up until the ending and I think it was all in how it was laid out, not what the ending actually was. My wife was really into this movie more than I was and she left the theater saying the ending killed it for her too. I lost evey bit of enjoyment and felt like I wasted the time and money for nothing.

    What part of the ending killed it for you two?

    M

  • GregGreg Posts: 1,946
    @Matt - It wasn't the ending in the respect of what happened. I was good with all of it up until we see Alfred and Bruce at the end. Lucius finding out that Bruce fixed the autopilot and a small acknowledgement from Alfred would have been enough. I didn't need to see Bruce at the end and that is the one part that did it.

    Anne Hathaway was great. Bane made a great villian and I wasn't bothered with the voice. Besides a Nolan Catwoman movie with Hathaway, I'd like to see a Nolan movie that focuses on Gordon and the Gotham PD.


  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Fair enough, I was just curious. A couple I know didn't like that Bruce didn't die, so I wasn't sure what you were referring to.

    I agree, a movie about Gordon & the PD would be great. I'd want the one with Anne first, but Nolan can't give me enough of his Bat-universe.

    M
  • mguy1977mguy1977 Posts: 801
    I know I never said that Ledger's Joker was better than Jack's Joker. So it is not everyone that likes Nolan's version of the Joker.

    'Nuff Said.

    Matthew
  • Murd I'm sure you'd agree that Alfred is Bruce's surrogate father. What other character could they introduce to bury Bruce? It had to be Alfred.

    Also I suspect that if they had used the full Daggat name from the animated series, that whomever created that Daggat would be owed money fro using a pre-existing charcter.

    That's been the case with all the the other established characters they used, and it's why Selina Kyle wasn't Catwoman in the Haley Berry film.
  • BibliomikeBibliomike Posts: 16
    Guys! They went with "Gotham Rogues" as the team name because everyone says Batman has the best "rogues' gallery" in comcis! Gotta be, right? (And to use "Knights" might have pulled folks out of the film, given that it is the name of the movie and all.)
  • Great Episode Guys!
    I Was Quoted!!
    Whopee!!!
  • larrylarry Posts: 125
    I'm not sure if it was my theater or not but I thought the soundtrack needed to be toned down a bit. It was absolutely relentless and overly dramatic. I look at a soundtrack as a trick to build suspense and the movie should be able to carry the suspense all by itself to a point. The soundtrack was so loud I couldn't hear a lot of the dialogue. Did anybody else have that problem? I might go watch it again to see if it was just the theater. Anyways, great episode as always. Thanks geeks!
  • the1captainthe1captain Posts: 20
    edited July 2012
    Everyone cites No Man's Land, DKR, and Knightfall for influences for this movie. One batbook that this reminded me on was Batman: the Cult, from the late 80's. For those that don't know it, it was a four part prestige format story about a Deacon that rallies the homeless and poor of Gotham to take over the city and cut if off from the rest of the world. Sound familiar? In the movie there is a scene where the soldiers that snuck into Gotham are hung on the bridge. A very simular scene is seen in the Cult.

    Also early in the story Deacon Blackfire is able to "break" the Batman years before Bane was even created. Although it is more psychological than physical. Trade is around. Worth checking out.
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    edited July 2012
    "Lunch Kettle?"

    Must be a regional thing. For example, where my wife grew up kids play Duck, Duck, Grey Duck instead of Goose.

    vv off topic button vv
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    Now...Grey Goose I could understand... B-)
  • Mr_CosmicMr_Cosmic Posts: 3,200
    edited July 2012
    random73 said:

    Now...Grey Goose I could understand... B-)

    Why, @random73 , what a random response to my spelling error free post. ;)
  • larry said:

    I'm not sure if it was my theater or not but I thought the soundtrack needed to be toned down a bit. It was absolutely relentless and overly dramatic. I look at a soundtrack as a trick to build suspense and the movie should be able to carry the suspense all by itself to a point. The soundtrack was so loud I couldn't hear a lot of the dialogue. Did anybody else have that problem? I might go watch it again to see if it was just the theater. Anyways, great episode as always. Thanks geeks!

    Sounds like they were having trouble with the center channel. Watch it somewhere else.
    Only dialogue comes out of that speaker.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Everyone cites No Man's Land, DKR, and Knightfall for influences for this movie. One batbook that this reminded me on was Batman: the Cult, from the late 80's. For those that don't know it, it was a four part prestige format story about a Deacon that rallies the homeless and poor of Gotham to take over the city and cut if off from the rest of the world. Sound familiar? In the movie there is a scene where the soldiers that snuck into Gotham are hung on the bridge. A very simular scene is seen in the Cult.

    Also early in the story Deacon Blackfire is able to "break" the Batman years before Bane was even created. Although it is more psychological than physical. Trade is around. Worth checking out.

    Do you know you whatv pisses me off about your post? You're right, I overlooked one of my favorite Batman stories. Batman: The Cult is both Knighgfall AND No Man's Land before either story was even conceived.

    I think I forget the story because it's scarcely mentioned. Kinda like Birth of the Demon & Son of the Demon. It's almost treated like an Elseworlds.

    Bravo for remembering it. I need to break out my trade & add it to my re-read Batman list.

    M

  • JaxUrJaxUr Posts: 547
    Christopher Nolan is a guest on Elvis Mitchell's "The Treatment" podcast from KCRW.
    If he's doing podcast interviews now how long before he pops up on CGS?

    http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/tt120725christopher_nolan_th
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    *the following should be read in the tone of this Morgan Freeman quote: Lucius Fox: Let me get this straight. You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands; and your plan, is to *blackmail* this person?
    [pause, Reese looks nervous]
    Lucius Fox: Good luck. *


    So let me get this straight. The Dark Knight Rises, arguably the most anticipated movie of this summer and the capper to one of the most popular, original, and respected representation of the Batman character opens up this weekend; and your plan is to spoil the entire movie through an a *wikipedia* article?
    [pause, Jamie D looks nervous]
    Good luck

  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    Matt, ever wonder if you just kicked back and let this movie wash over you, fresh and new, as Pants did, you'd enjoy the thing even more?
  • abuddahabuddah Posts: 133
    Murd makes some valid points at the end about it not feeling Batman. I think it may even be a deliberate choice
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    JaxUr said:

    Christopher Nolan is a guest on Elvis Mitchell's "The Treatment" podcast from KCRW.
    If he's doing podcast interviews now how long before he pops up on CGS?

    http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/tt120725christopher_nolan_th

    As exciting as that would be, The Treatment is not just a podcast, it is also syndicated to public radio stations across the country. So they, unfortunately, still get many of the sorts of guests that podcasts don't (yet) get.

    I'm glad you posted that, though-- you beat me to it! Looking forward to listening to that later today.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    abuddah said:

    Matt, ever wonder if you just kicked back and let this movie wash over you, fresh and new, as Pants did, you'd enjoy the thing even more?

    I'm curious if I COULD like it any more!

    M

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited July 2012
    abuddah said:

    Murd makes some valid points at the end about it not feeling Batman. I think it may even be a deliberate choice

    I've actually been thinking about Adam's concerns/dislikes. I'm not going to change his mind, but here's how I understand things:

    1.) the ending of TDK was necessary in the context of the movie. They could've easily blamed Joker for Dent's crimes, but now you have a loose end. Once you involve another person, it can complicate the lie.

    In TDK, Batman learned that (like Dent) he could die a hero OR live long enough to become the villain. At that moment, he could make the decision. He also could be the villain to make Dent the White Knight. Seemingly, Batman is the corruptible one. It would prevent future copycat Batmen.

    2.) Seeing Bruce's world get worse & worse meant the ending could occur. He no longer had anything as Bruce Wayne & could get a fresh start. Plus, sometimes you need to be beaten down (in this case figuratively & literally) to rise up.

    3.) Few would want Anne Hathaway to get more scene time than me, but she's the grease in the engine, not a piece of it. Her presence brought Batman back, helped Bane & Talia's plan, helped Batman save Gotham, & give Bruce a new light at the end of the tunnel. She's a facilitator.

    4.) I see you're concern with them not using Roland, but Smallville never used Arthur ("AC"), and the new Arrow series doesn't use the name Dinah.

    The movie "Walking Tall" changed the person's name it was based on. Apparently the Rock couldn't play a character named "Buford Pusser"

    Why do you think Meg is so opposed to the names "Merlin" (a Knight's magician) and "Mycroft" (brother of famous detective) as possible names for any sons we might have? They aren't common.

    M

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    edited July 2012
    abuddah said:

    *the following should be read in the tone of this Morgan Freeman quote: Lucius Fox: Let me get this straight. You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands; and your plan, is to *blackmail* this person?
    [pause, Reese looks nervous]
    Lucius Fox: Good luck. *


    So let me get this straight. The Dark Knight Rises, arguably the most anticipated movie of this summer and the capper to one of the most popular, original, and respected representation of the Batman character opens up this weekend; and your plan is to spoil the entire movie through an a *wikipedia* article?
    [pause, Jamie D looks nervous]
    Good luck

    I did the same. It was never about WHAT the ending was, but how they got there. As a detective, I have the results, my job is to "reverse engineer" the incident to find out why the results occurred.

    M

  • Matt said:

    Everyone cites No Man's Land, DKR, and Knightfall for influences for this movie. One batbook that this reminded me on was Batman: the Cult, from the late 80's. For those that don't know it, it was a four part prestige format story about a Deacon that rallies the homeless and poor of Gotham to take over the city and cut if off from the rest of the world. Sound familiar? In the movie there is a scene where the soldiers that snuck into Gotham are hung on the bridge. A very simular scene is seen in the Cult.

    Also early in the story Deacon Blackfire is able to "break" the Batman years before Bane was even created. Although it is more psychological than physical. Trade is around. Worth checking out.

    Do you know you whatv pisses me off about your post? You're right, I overlooked one of my favorite Batman stories. Batman: The Cult is both Knighgfall AND No Man's Land before either story was even conceived.

    I think I forget the story because it's scarcely mentioned. Kinda like Birth of the Demon & Son of the Demon. It's almost treated like an Elseworlds.

    Bravo for remembering it. I need to break out my trade & add it to my re-read Batman list.

    M

    If only you could convince Pants to bring back book of the month. Hint Hint.
  • ajaxajax Posts: 5
    Great episode, fellas - lots of insightful stuff.

    But I just wanted to say that the moment of silence at the end to honor the CO shootings showed a lot of class. Well done.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    Great episode, guys. I especially appreciated Matt's notes on what made it a trilogy, as I was not able to take the time to watch the two prior ones, and there were a lot of great observations in there.

    I won't rehash everything I said in the other discussion, but I will say that I agreed with Adam that I think the scope and size of this movie started to make it not work as a Batman/Gotham movie. I also found that- not remembering the specifics of 'Begins that well when I saw this one- I started wondering just why Al Ghul had such a hard on for Gotham in the first place. Especially as it doesn't seem like that bad of a place anymore by this movie.

    The more I hear and see comments about the Blake character, the more I am getting convinced that he is meant to become Batman, and not just join the Bat Family (which was my initial impression of the unsatisfying ending). But that actually makes the ending worse for me, as I just don't buy that the Bruce of these movies is ready to retire and go settle down with Selina. Nothing in his experiences in this movie led me to believe that he was personally fixed enough to put away the monster, nor was he SO convinced that Blake was ready, or that Gotham was ready, for him to just leave them to each other. Not after putting his whole lifetime towards it. That just doesn't wash for me. But, oh well.

    Still, though, a lot to enjoy in the movie and I look forward to seeing it again.

    Oh, one thought I had during the episode, regarding the lack of Alfred. I personally didn't mind it, as much as I love Sir Michael, and I am a huge fan of his work and career (by the way, his recent memoir, From the Elephant to Hollywood, makes for an excellent audiobook listen), I didn't mind his relatively small role this time, as he had a lot to do in a small amount of screen time. And I wonder how much of the story decisions surrounding Alfred in this movie were also practical production decisions-- he's almost 80, and sometimes it is difficult to get your completion insurance for an actor of that age. It may be that they could only insure him for a small role. And given that nearly all of his role was in and around the mansion, I wonder whether they shot him out of the movie early just in case. That is a terrible thought, but a reality when it comes to an older actor. The insurance companies bonding the completion of the film often won't got for a large role on a long shooting schedule.

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