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The New 52 - A few years on
Happenstance
Posts: 113
Sorry if this has already been a discussion, I did try a quick search but couldnt find a way to search for topic titles only.
Anyway, I wanted to see what people's opinions generally are on the new 52 now that a few years have passed and I would say we have had enough time to have informed decisions on it.
I started off pretty positive about the whole thing, seeing it as my version of Crisis on Infinite Earths and a chance to see a new DCU from the beginning with something that wasnt just small changes here and there like Infinite or Final Crisis. I stuck with various books but then last year I started dropping them here and there until I was reading no DC books at all. I finally came to the realisation that for the moment, I just didnt like the characters in the DCU anymore. There were still a few stories here and there that I found good but without that basic enjoyment of the characters I was no longer invested in what was going on. I have issues with most of the changes as I said but I think Superman was the worst for me. He was supposed to be the one hero that all others looked up to, instead he had become whiney and someone I had no intention of reading anymore from.
Thats my thoughts anyway. Please dont take this as a new 52 bashing thread, I'm just interested to see where everyone else is on the current state of the DCU.
Anyway, I wanted to see what people's opinions generally are on the new 52 now that a few years have passed and I would say we have had enough time to have informed decisions on it.
I started off pretty positive about the whole thing, seeing it as my version of Crisis on Infinite Earths and a chance to see a new DCU from the beginning with something that wasnt just small changes here and there like Infinite or Final Crisis. I stuck with various books but then last year I started dropping them here and there until I was reading no DC books at all. I finally came to the realisation that for the moment, I just didnt like the characters in the DCU anymore. There were still a few stories here and there that I found good but without that basic enjoyment of the characters I was no longer invested in what was going on. I have issues with most of the changes as I said but I think Superman was the worst for me. He was supposed to be the one hero that all others looked up to, instead he had become whiney and someone I had no intention of reading anymore from.
Thats my thoughts anyway. Please dont take this as a new 52 bashing thread, I'm just interested to see where everyone else is on the current state of the DCU.
Comments
What I have found in retrospect is that the main things that I have liked about the New 52 have turned out to be limited runs. I was very excited that Batman, Inc. got to work to a conclusion, as I was very invested in the whole Morrison run on Batman. Morrison's run on Action Comics, Snyder's Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Blackman and Williams III's Batwoman, Winick's Batwing, and Wonder Woman are some others that immediately come to mind. But many of those runs have ended are are ending for various reasons. I also enjoyed some of the books that had shorter runs like Mister Terrific, Frankenstein, and OMAC.
I think I've just grown weary of "events" and the increasing demand to keep up with multiple titles to get a full story.
I started off with all 52 titles, and I carved it all away to two or three.
The winners? Aquaman isn't bad. I like both Worlds' Finest and Earth-2 (a couple of later additions) and I think All-Star Western is decent.
I gave up on even the borderline books when Forever Evil got underway. I wasn't about to get sucked into a questionable crossover event that didn't seem to have any real story merit... and couldn't even stir a mild interest in a crossover event fan like myself.
Nothing else is worth even a free look anymore.
I still get Wonder Woman (but i think i will drop off after issue 30),
I will jump back on World's Finest when a new art team comes on - I strongly dislike the current team.
I am still getting Catwoman and Batman in trade
I am looking at possibly starting up with Aquaman and All Star Western again.
I tried the new Harley Quinn but it is pointless and Amanda Conner should be drawing the book instead of writing it.
no problem using such language and saying so at this point. It saddens me quite a bit.
I was excited for the New 52 because it would allow me a chance to jump in on something new without having a lot of the back history to care about. The problem is that I know a lot of the continuity now and so everything just seems forced and uninspired. I tried a bunch of the New 52 books, but dropped many after the first issue simply because I wanted to wait for the buzz wax and wane and then pick up the trades. I'm still collecting Batman, but it's getting a little long in the tooth. I've picked up and really enjoyed Aquaman, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, O.M.A.C., Batman & Robin, & Batman. However, the only ongoing DC book I'm getting is Batman.
In part I think what happened was that people (the writers included) all of a sudden realized how much was lost when the old continuity went away. Or, actually, not all of it may have gone away, but we're constantly in a position where we don't quite know what counts from pre-Flashpoint continuity, or what "still happened, just in different ways". It alienates us from the characters. For the first story arc or two of each title, this questioning could be put on hold, simply because everyone was more interested in meeting this new universe. But once the new setting settled it, it just seemed like everything we started to find out about it was anticlimactic. Everything we learned made it all seem cheap in comparison to the continuity we grew up with. Comparatively, I feel that in the wake of COIE DC was much more careful about building a new universe. The New 52, on the other hand, just feels rushed and slapdash.
Like others have said, it's been the more or less stand-alone titles that I've been happiest with -- or at least I've had the least problems with them.
On the one hand I'm glad that Morrison got to finish his Batman saga . . . but I found Inc. vol. 2 by far the weakest segment of his run. It was still decent.
Similarly I liked the idea of Morrison building Superman from the ground up . . . but the Action Comics run was wildly inconsistent, and unlike many Morrison projects I didn't feel that the difficulty and allusiveness really paid off in the end. It was okay.
And I'm glad JH Williams got to continue Kate Kane's story for quite a while . . . but the whole thing moved at a snail's pace, and even though the writing was improving toward the end, I can't say that I'm sad he is no longer on the title.
Animal Man started out great, then got sucked into an endless "Rot" spiral. It emerged from that "okay", and I'm glad to have read every issue . . . but it didn't turn out nearly as great as that first arc suggested.
Similarly, Swamp Thing started out pretty good, then spun its wheels for a year and a half. Charles Soule has done a great job in the last year, but it seems like the title was already primed to shed a ton of readers after the "Rot", so I doubt his tenure will last much longer.
I can't say that the Batman title hasn't been a good production. The plethora of extra-big issues has understandably annoyed many readers, but I subscribe to the title at a standard discounted rate, so I've been happy to get more than I paid for. Capullo's art has been fantastic, and despite my qualms about Snyder's writing, I can't say that it hasn't been exciting. But, yeah, it seems like there have been WAY too many crossovers and events. When everyone was singing this title's praises, I was cooler on it. Now that many people seem to be angrily jumping ship, I still like Batman about as much as I ever did. It's "okay" overall. But damn it's nice to get so much great artwork.
I've enjoyed "Batman and ___" more than most, and just purchased a subscription in fact. I think it's been pretty good and I'm happy to have a reliable creative team on it. But am I excited about this title the way I was excited about Morrison's Bat-stuff in years past? Or am I as excited about it as a lot of people were excited about Snyder's stuff? Not even close. Once again: "it's okay".
Wonder Woman has been the most consistent title, I think. But I will be jumping ship once Azzarello's saga concludes later this year. Again, "it's okay". But I am happy that DC allowed this series to be its own little thing. I can't complain about it; it's been a refreshing take on the character, imo. But it hasn't been great, just "quite good". It's one of DC's best titles, but it seems like Marvel can just effortlessly give us about a dozen or so titles that feel just about as good and cohesive.
There are a few other titles I could mention, but why bother? I tried other stuff out, but dropped it all. Aquaman was okay but not for me. Nothing else stuck. I'm currently buying Harley Quinn but it's just the latest case of a DC title that just doesn't seem to be able to gel creatively, so I'll probably drop it soon if it doesn't improve; it has potential but I'm just not seeing a follow-through. I'm far less likely to try out new DC titles now than I was a few years ago.
I would say that people who are TOTALLY disgusted with DC should at least try some of the better-reviewed titles. There ARE decent-to-good titles out there, even though I'm sure my snippet reviews above don't sound like ringing endorsements. If you can find the first Wonder Woman collection for cheap, I would say definitely try it. If you feel like picking up an extra comic some week, give Soule's Swamp Thing a try -- I think it's damn good. I did take a chance on the first collection of Lemire's Green Arrow, and I liked it. Is it as good or as innovative as, say, the first collection of Fraction's Hawkeye? Not even close. But it is worth the money. I think there ARE bright spots at DC right now -- as well as spots that aren't so dim -- but, yeah, they are slumping hard in general.
I have tried (given at least three issue chances) to over 35 of the DC New 52 books. My pull list, as of this morning, has left me with two books in the New 52 proper - Wonder Woman, which I will drop with the creative team change, and Sinestro, which is so new I haven't even read the first issue yet.
A few of the titles I enjoyed have been cancelled, but most of these I just dropped.
I'm not the audience. I realized that. Trouble is, I'm not exactly sure who the audience is anymore.
I'm assuming there is one, simply because, otherwise, this whole thing would have been jettisoned by now, right? I just don't know anyone that is really digging the New 52 personally.
A few titles get a lot of raves, but they are always the same titles. I'd love to be surprised by someone saying, "Hey, you NEED to be reading Batwing!" or "Larfleeze is AMAZING!" (Though, in the case of Larfleeze, I actually tried that title for five issues and if someone said that I'd know THEY ARE A DIRTY STINKIN' LIAR!)
I'm switching over to digital, anyway, so DC has just made that easier.
If DC wanted to start fresh, they should have just done it. This half in half out thing has left me feeling confused and alienated, and part of me thinks it was done just to protect Batman, at the expense of almost everyone else.
Planeis I'm with you. I would have much preferred to just get a full reboot if we had to go that route. All this messing about with what is and isnt continuity now has just been rediculous.
I'm still getting Wonder Woman, Swamp Thing, Allstar Western, Animal Man, and a few others. The post-flashpoint DC gave us some great comics like the new Dail H, Frankenstien (wheich fell apart after it was announced as cancelled) and OMAC.
There were some mistakes (not a complete reboot, announcing some arbitrary 5 years timeline, and Bob Harras), but over I think it had to be done. Remember 30 years ago the guys hating on the Post Flashpoint DC were defending Post Crisis DC ;)
I like Batman because it's Batman but Batgirl is something I'm still very excited about every month
Just a reminder from the original post: "Please dont take this as a new 52 bashing thread, I'm just interested to see where everyone else is on the current state of the DCU."
I have to really disagree with the statement everything DC touches turns to garbage. There are titles that have really worked.
Dail H was a great title (it just didn't sale well),
Wonder Woman was more than a lunch box for the first time in forever,
Batman,
Aquaman was really good (people seem to think it is still a good title),
Swamp Thing has been good
That is off the top of my head. If I were looking at my shelves I could list off more. DC's direction just hasn't worked for you, but there have been good comics from them.
Not bashing, as there are still plenty of New52 books I buy and enjoy reading, but overall, a complete restart of all the lines was a real waste in the wake of some of the things they sacrificed to achieve it. Some great storylines disappeared or got wrapped up haphazardly, characters with strong fanbases were lost outright, books with extremely long histories of publications found themselves back at issue 1...minor things? Maybe, but important to some readers and collectors.
And I give them props for trying - I think I'm one of the five people on the planet who enjoyed Blackhawks and what they were trying to do with it, for example. They managed to make Aquaman interesting again. They finally got Clark and Diana to just admit it. :) Still, just as much as I commend, I can condemn. The Legion is no more...one of the longest running titles in the DC stable (no stranger to reboots, of course, but gone nonetheless) is done.
And I remain optimistic - they're putting the next iteration of the Titans on Earth 2, bringing back Tara Markov (one of my favorite characters - let's hope she's not a psycho this time around! :) ), and they've managed to keep chugging along and maintaining (most of our) interest as they do it.
But I feel they could just have easily made most of these changes without the clean slate.
I am one of the few I think who enjoy the New 52 as much as the old universe. I've been reading comics around 15 years, so I am not a new reader or anything. I don't have anything against the old continutity, I liked that stuff too, the reboot is just more stories to me. Sure some are different, some are the same, but to me it's just if I enjoy them. It is hard to not remember the past pre-New 52, but I just read it for what it is.
A common theme I notice is people count the number of dropped titles since New 52's inception, which I don't think is really a fair comparison. I think it's better to say how many series were you reading now compared to a year before the New 52. I think most people would say they read a lot of the books when they first came out, and now are a lot lower. Most people aren't going to be able to buy 52 monthly books from one company, so sure it's going to decline over time. I am actually up about four books a month from where I was before the reboot.
The highlights to me (and I'm going to use broad descriptions, not talking about an issue or two that were bad):
Aquaman: A new series (now two!) that is really making him into a flushed out character with a full backup cast
Batgirl: Gail Simone could write Batgirl forever and I'd never get tired of her. A strong female character that young girls could really latch onto (not saying they have)
Flash: A know this is different for everyone, but I like the new Flash, the art and title page payouts alone are worth the price of admission
Green Arrow: Jeff Lemire is writing one of the best Green Arrow stories ever in my opinion
I am also digging the return of annuals. Most of what I have read of them are more one and dones, not always a direct tie in.
I understand why they did what they did, but from day one, I felt it should've been a total reboot. And launching with 52 titles seemed too much. I liked that there were fringe/genre type books, but there were too many batman & GL books & spin-offs. Instead of letting these books expand organically, it seems like they gave us all their cool ideas at the start and didn't know what to do next. Creators started dropping out too... I still tried to find titles and gave new ones (or those with new creative teams) a chance, but I just didn't find anything to really latch on to.
I'm down to reading 1. And yeah,I'll likely drop Wonder Woman when the creative team leaves.
Matthew
PS
I'm giving Batman Eternal a chance for 8 issues.
DC got their initial bump from me, but lost out in the long run.
The New52 called my bluff. I jumped back on the singles train. Now I'm progressing right back to trades only.