The thing I'm enjoying about Marvel right now is the impression of a larger story connecting everything. Ever since Age of Ultron time/space has been screwed up. Obviously what's going on in the X-Books but also Spider-Man(2099 stuff), Avengers(incursions, shattered time gem, AIM pulling things out of other dimensions, Starbrand, Kang and the Apocalypse Twins, etc), Hunger/Cataclysm, Angela, etc...
It feels like it's a slow boil leading to something big..
I've noticed this too. My impression after the Avengers "broke" time in Age of Ultron, was that Marvel was going to layoff the time travel/alternate timeline stories. I thought it was editorials way of saying "no more" time travel... any more time travel and the marvel universe will implode. Yet, if anything, they have ramped it up and their characters have been screwing with time willy-nilly. I don't think that is a coincidence.
I agree actually. I'm predicting the final incursion will be the Ultimate Universe's Earth..somehow things will be reconciled without destroying a world and we'll get a rebooted Marvel Universe..fixing all the space/time problems.
I disagree. I think Marvel has had the cake-and-eat-it-too of doing soft reboots and rebrands all the time, but because it is never all one, big reboot, they never get the sort of all at once big pushback from the old fans that DC got. It seems that Marvel does well with just doing lots of #1s and change-ups spread out over the year. I don't think they would have enough to gain from a total reboot vs. what they might lose. DC was in a different position when they rebooted.
I feel like every single time Marvel does something new the first reaction is always "a reboot must be around the corner". It's gotten even worse post New 52, where people think because DC had a little bit of success doing something they've done before that Marvel is going to follow suit... But Marvel mastered the soft reboot long ago. They get away with rewriting history all the time, almost always without explanation. Market share-wise Marvel still rules the roost, so I don't think they worry terribly about what DC does. And I can guarantee that no one "upstairs" is telling creative at Marvel to make their comic counterparts as unrecognizable as possible from the all important movie versions.
I don’t know if we can call what Marvel does as “soft reboots”, as they never ignore their history. They may pull the “:everything you know is wrong” and they don’t obsessively footnote everything like they did in the 70’s and 80’s, but they haven’t done any “this didn’t happen”. The closest they have done is the “Secret Wars II didn’t happen the way you think” in The Illuminati.
They have done some stylistic changes, and characters have changed in how they deal with things, but having reconnected with some people I used to work with 5 or 6 years ago, people change…so when Hawkeye doesn’t much mention he used to turn into a giant and wear a halter top, it’s like the sorority girl you knew in college refusing to admit she used to go to class in a tube top.
There are a lot of instances of Marvel ignoring or rewriting history, especially when an event is connected to real history. Tony Stark became iron man in Afghanistan instead of Vietnam (pre-movie too). Reed and Ben never fought in WWII and so on. Every time something seemed goofy it suddenly became a comic published by the in-universe Marvel... They developed a lot of techniques to ignore and erase problematic history. You can't count on anything from before maybe 15 years ago that isn't reflected or referenced now as having definitely happened. Lots of stories, regardless of their impact at the time will be completely ignored and often contradicted without consquence until some new writer comes up with an interesting take bringing it back into existence.
I agree actually. I'm predicting the final incursion will be the Ultimate Universe's Earth..somehow things will be reconciled without destroying a world and we'll get a rebooted Marvel Universe..fixing all the space/time problems.
I disagree. I think Marvel has had the cake-and-eat-it-too of doing soft reboots and rebrands all the time, but because it is never all one, big reboot, they never get the sort of all at once big pushback from the old fans that DC got. It seems that Marvel does well with just doing lots of #1s and change-ups spread out over the year. I don't think they would have enough to gain from a total reboot vs. what they might lose. DC was in a different position when they rebooted.
I feel like every single time Marvel does something new the first reaction is always "a reboot must be around the corner". It's gotten even worse post New 52, where people think because DC had a little bit of success doing something they've done before that Marvel is going to follow suit... But Marvel mastered the soft reboot long ago. They get away with rewriting history all the time, almost always without explanation. Market share-wise Marvel still rules the roost, so I don't think they worry terribly about what DC does. And I can guarantee that no one "upstairs" is telling creative at Marvel to make their comic counterparts as unrecognizable as possible from the all important movie versions.
I don’t know if we can call what Marvel does as “soft reboots”, as they never ignore their history. They may pull the “:everything you know is wrong” and they don’t obsessively footnote everything like they did in the 70’s and 80’s, but they haven’t done any “this didn’t happen”. The closest they have done is the “Secret Wars II didn’t happen the way you think” in The Illuminati.
They have done some stylistic changes, and characters have changed in how they deal with things, but having reconnected with some people I used to work with 5 or 6 years ago, people change…so when Hawkeye doesn’t much mention he used to turn into a giant and wear a halter top, it’s like the sorority girl you knew in college refusing to admit she used to go to class in a tube top.
There are a lot of instances of Marvel ignoring or rewriting history, especially when an event is connected to real history. Tony Stark became iron man in Afghanistan instead of Vietnam (pre-movie too). Reed and Ben never fought in WWII and so on. Every time something seemed goofy it suddenly became a comic published by the in-universe Marvel... They developed a lot of techniques to ignore and erase problematic history. You can't count on anything from before maybe 15 years ago that isn't reflected or referenced now as having definitely happened. Lots of stories, regardless of their impact at the time will be completely ignored and often contradicted without consquence until some new writer comes up with an interesting take bringing it back into existence.
Do you have any examples of the goofy things being written out?
And the "elastic time" was something invented by John Byrne and Roger Stern in the 80's when they didn't want to deal with Reed and Ben being in their 60's...so back then it was "FF #1 happened 7 years ago." and I think now they've upped it to between 10 and 15 years ago, which I have no problem with.
Myself, I feel they should stick to how Mike W Barr used continuity on Batman and the Outsiders: If I need it for the current story, I'll reference it, but if I don't, I just won't mention it.
I mean, do we need to reference that Dazzler once defeated Galactus?
Now, I'll admit that I have not really been happy with Marvel since NOW started, it has basically taken my comics train and threw it off the tracks, but I still held out hope that after a year or so things would get back to normal. However, Marvel has gone the complete opposite way with the Thor and Cap news. Can somebody please tell me what the heck has happened this past year that we have landed at this point. I am fine with any spoilers because at this point I barely care, about the past 2 years, I just NEED TO KNOW. I just hope that someway Marvel can find its way back. Thank you
Re: "What is Marvel doing?"
I'm not sure how to answer the question. That is, if it is actually a question you are seeking an answer for. (It sounds a bit rhetorical.)
What are they doing? They are doing lots of things. The news around Thor and Cap are things that haven't happened yet and, when they do, will probably be a tiny part of the many things that are happening at the moment. For example, I think the current All New X-Men/ Uncanny X-Men books have been the best they have been in years and years. And will likely not be affected a bit by the new Cap and Thor.
(Which is not to say I am worried about avoiding those, myself, just a reminder that Marvel publishes a LOT of books, and most of them actually don't affect each other. Another example is that the new Ms. Marvel got a lot of attention. And a lot of people who were probably never going to read it anyway spoke at length about why they don't like the idea. But as of right now, the character is in one book. Leaving those readers dozens and dozens of books a month to read that are not affected by 'that thing Marvel did'. You know what I mean?)
And even when the Marvel NOW! branding launched a lot of the titles actually continued basically doing what they were doing before NOW! launched, while some others changed. Clearly there is some things you didn't like then. And some things you have heard about in comics that haven't come out yet you don't like the sound of. But without better knowing what you didn't like about NOW!, or what you DO like in general, it is sort of a hard question to answer. You know what I mean.
Marvel needs to find it's way back to what exactly? When is the time you are thinking of, and how is it so different from now? (Or, I guess, from "NOW!")
But to the general question of "What is Marvel doing?", I guess my answers as a reader would be:
A. The same sort of things they have been doing since the 1960s and
B. A good job at it
For myself, I was enjoying a good amount of Marvel titles prior to the NOW! branding. And, it seems, post-NOW! there are even more titles I am enjoying. So, for me, whatever it is that Marvel is doing, I hope they keep doing it.
I just feel like this was too much change all at once. Maybe in 10 years I will be wrong and buy all the back issues and trades. Just right now I am turned off. I have given most of the books a chance and really can't get into anything that much. I was getting a large number of books pre NOW, today I think I am just at Spidey and Hawkeye, which is sad tome because Marvel made me love comics. I just still have sour taste in my mouth from the half hearted reboot and these strange changes is all. I wish I was like you, I want to love these books and I just can't.
I stand corrected! More JARVIS! (and I forgot about poor Rick being morphed into A-Bomb... so less A-Bomb, more Jarvis) ...and while were at it, more Wong too!
So as I've come to understand it, the way that picking up Mjolnir works, the hammer's enchantment allows anyone worthy to wield Thor's power as the God of Thunder. Whether or not they also take his name and a place in Asgard's pantheon depends on whether or not the OdinSon is presently worthy of keeping that destiny himself.
So when Red Norvell picked up Mjolnir, Thor was unworthy, so Red became Thor. But, when Beta Ray Bill picked up Mjolnir, Thor was still worthy, so Bill did not become Thor. Then, when Eric Masterson picked up Mjolnir, Thor was unworthy, so Masterson became Thor. And when Thor was worthy again, Eric became Thunderstrike, then he died. But when Captain America picked up Mjolnir, Thor was still worthy, so Cap did not become Thor. Now, a mystery woman has picked up Mjolnir at a time when Thor is unworthy, so she has become Thor.
Make sense?
So as I've come to understand it, the way that picking up Mjolnir works, the hammer's enchantment allows anyone worthy to wield Thor's power as the God of Thunder. Whether or not they also take his name and a place in Asgard's pantheon depends on whether or not the OdinSon is presently worthy of keeping that destiny himself.
So when Red Norvell picked up Mjolnir, Thor was unworthy, so Red became Thor. But, when Beta Ray Bill picked up Mjolnir, Thor was still worthy, so Bill did not become Thor. Then, when Eric Masterson picked up Mjolnir, Thor was unworthy, so Masterson became Thor. And when Thor was worthy again, Eric became Thunderstrike, then he died. But when Captain America picked up Mjolnir, Thor was still worthy, so Cap did not become Thor. Now, a mystery woman has picked up Mjolnir at a time when Thor is unworthy, so she has become Thor.
Make sense?
No. But, it's comics. It doesn't have to make sense. It has to make me smile.
Picked up the new Thor #1 last night. It was good. I was amused by the irate Odin (in my head I hear Anthony Hopkins) cursing and swearing at the hammer. This isn't a spoiler here this is just speculation. The big reveal has happened but the identity of the weilder was not confirmed.
My first thought was the the All-Mother herself was weilding the hammer and I thought, a little old maybe, but that could be cool.
The Blonde hair made me think of Carol Danvers. Perhaps not the first that comes to mind when worthyness is discussed and certainly a character that we would all want to resume her own mantle fairly quickly but I could see a melancoly heart wanting to fill the void left by thor. "There must always be a Thor".
I like the idea of one of old king Thor's granddaughters stepping in to swing the hammer, too.
I've never collected Thor in my life but I picked this up and i'll probably pick up #2 as well. Anything more than 2 is a collection, so we'll see.
So, I picked up Thor #2 last night. The identity of the new Thor still has not been revealed, but there were quite a few clues strewn about that lead me to believe it's Jane Foster. For starters, it seems obvious the new Thor is an earth woman. When she speaks it's all Shakespearean/Asgardian, but her inner thoughts are definitely those of a 21st century American female. At the conclusion of the Thor: God of Thunder series, Jane leaves with the Asgardians when they vacate Broxton in order to be their "ambassador to the 9 realms." This would explain her presence on the moon with the Asgardians.
In addition, here are a couple of things that she thinks to herself in this issue:
* "I'm wearing armor, and a mask. Yeah, a mask is probably a good idea." (So no one, even the Asgardians, can recognize her)
* "It changed me ... the hammer." (This explains the blonde hair as Jane is a brunette)
* She also remarks when attempting to use the hammer to fly that she's "seen Thor do this."
So yeah, I'm pushing my chips to the middle of the table on that one.
So, I picked up Thor #2 last night. The identity of the new Thor still has not been revealed, but there were quite a few clues strewn about that lead me to believe it's Jane Foster. For starters, it seems obvious the new Thor is an earth woman. When she speaks it's all Shakespearean/Asgardian, but her inner thoughts are definitely those of a 21st century American female. At the conclusion of the Thor: God of Thunder series, Jane leaves with the Asgardians when they vacate Broxton in order to be their "ambassador to the 9 realms." This would explain her presence on the moon with the Asgardians.
In addition, here are a couple of things that she thinks to herself in this issue:
* "I'm wearing armor, and a mask. Yeah, a mask is probably a good idea." (So no one, even the Asgardians, can recognize her)
* "It changed me ... the hammer." (This explains the blonde hair as Jane is a brunette)
* She also remarks when attempting to use the hammer to fly that she's "seen Thor do this."
So yeah, I'm pushing my chips to the middle of the table on that one.
I haven't read these issues yet, but you are making a good case for it.
A friend gave me his copy of Thor #1, not being sufficiently impressed with it. I read it, and, while I wasn’t hugely impressed either, I can’t say I was hugely distressed either. In fact, I was intrigued just enough that, if I could afford it right now, I would continue to buy it for a few more issues. I would label this issue a cautious ‘buy’.
Comments
My impression after the Avengers "broke" time in Age of Ultron, was that Marvel was going to layoff the time travel/alternate timeline stories. I thought it was editorials way of saying "no more" time travel... any more time travel and the marvel universe will implode. Yet, if anything, they have ramped it up and their characters have been screwing with time willy-nilly. I don't think that is a coincidence.
And the "elastic time" was something invented by John Byrne and Roger Stern in the 80's when they didn't want to deal with Reed and Ben being in their 60's...so back then it was "FF #1 happened 7 years ago." and I think now they've upped it to between 10 and 15 years ago, which I have no problem with.
Myself, I feel they should stick to how Mike W Barr used continuity on Batman and the Outsiders: If I need it for the current story, I'll reference it, but if I don't, I just won't mention it.
I mean, do we need to reference that Dazzler once defeated Galactus?
(and by the way... I loved that Dazzler issue. But did she really beat Galactus?)
Canon = "a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine."
;) *
*obligatory satire disclaimer for curmudgeon fanboys
Not nearly enough RICK JONES!
seriously.
M
(and I forgot about poor Rick being morphed into A-Bomb... so less A-Bomb, more Jarvis)
...and while were at it, more Wong too!
So when Red Norvell picked up Mjolnir, Thor was unworthy, so Red became Thor.
Make sense?But, when Beta Ray Bill picked up Mjolnir, Thor was still worthy, so Bill did not become Thor.
Then, when Eric Masterson picked up Mjolnir, Thor was unworthy, so Masterson became Thor. And when Thor was worthy again, Eric became Thunderstrike, then he died.
But when Captain America picked up Mjolnir, Thor was still worthy, so Cap did not become Thor.
Now, a mystery woman has picked up Mjolnir at a time when Thor is unworthy, so she has become Thor.
My first thought was the the All-Mother herself was weilding the hammer and I thought, a little old maybe, but that could be cool.
The Blonde hair made me think of Carol Danvers. Perhaps not the first that comes to mind when worthyness is discussed and certainly a character that we would all want to resume her own mantle fairly quickly but I could see a melancoly heart wanting to fill the void left by thor. "There must always be a Thor".
I like the idea of one of old king Thor's granddaughters stepping in to swing the hammer, too.
I've never collected Thor in my life but I picked this up and i'll probably pick up #2 as well. Anything more than 2 is a collection, so we'll see.
WARNING: SPOILER TALK / SPECULATION ENSUES!
So, I picked up Thor #2 last night. The identity of the new Thor still has not been revealed, but there were quite a few clues strewn about that lead me to believe it's Jane Foster. For starters, it seems obvious the new Thor is an earth woman. When she speaks it's all Shakespearean/Asgardian, but her inner thoughts are definitely those of a 21st century American female. At the conclusion of the Thor: God of Thunder series, Jane leaves with the Asgardians when they vacate Broxton in order to be their "ambassador to the 9 realms." This would explain her presence on the moon with the Asgardians.
In addition, here are a couple of things that she thinks to herself in this issue:
* "I'm wearing armor, and a mask. Yeah, a mask is probably a good idea." (So no one, even the Asgardians, can recognize her)
* "It changed me ... the hammer." (This explains the blonde hair as Jane is a brunette)
* She also remarks when attempting to use the hammer to fly that she's "seen Thor do this."
So yeah, I'm pushing my chips to the middle of the table on that one.