I guess this is all very interesting, mostly to the news outlets, but this feels such a publicity stunt. Is there anyone here doubting Thor & Steve will be back? And didn't they just do the 'former partner become Cap' storyline? Granted, it's been decades since there was a super soldier serum hiccup that altered Steve to be the normal Cap, but still.
I wonder if Marvel is kicking themselves they had Rhoadey become Iron Man 30 years ago? Anyone reading Iron Man feel THAT was a publicity stunt & short-term?
M
Does it matter if Steve and Thor come back? The point is for at least one story arc there will be a seat change. I will say this again comics need all the publicity and positive stories they can get. We are all getting older, and we need new people to get into this hobby for it to survive.
Yes & no. I don't necessarily think dropping Falcon so Wilson can become Cap is the way to do things. I'd rather see a non-costume guy take up the mantle then an established one.
IF its felt having a female Thor & an African-American Cap for, say a year, will generate new sales for that one year, I'm not sure its worth it.
Introducing Batwoman as a lesbian or Ms. Marvel as a Muslim seems like a better way to gain & maintain sales. Those don't feel short-lived.
For some reason the whole "She-Thor" debate brought my mind back to Final Crisis and how the New Gods were described as ideas given form. So, with that in mind, It could be argued that these "gods" really don't have gender and that the form they take is really driven by a kind of cultural gestalt.
Yeah, that's what they said in Earth X. They were just aliens who took the form of what their worshipers believed.
I guess this is all very interesting, mostly to the news outlets, but this feels such a publicity stunt. Is there anyone here doubting Thor & Steve will be back? And didn't they just do the 'former partner become Cap' storyline? Granted, it's been decades since there was a super soldier serum hiccup that altered Steve to be the normal Cap, but still.
I wonder if Marvel is kicking themselves they had Rhoadey become Iron Man 30 years ago? Anyone reading Iron Man feel THAT was a publicity stunt & short-term?
M
Another way to say a short term is "a story."
Like everything else in these sorts of comics- something changes from the premise, and then changes back. Sometimes it is peril that lasts a few pages, sometimes it is a story that plays out over two years. But of course the the brand returns to the brand. You might as well see Batman and Robin tied to a chair on the last page of an issue and wonder,"Batman tied to a chair! How long will THAT last?" Because in these open-ended serials all conflict and nearly all change is temporary.
And the stories have to come from somewhere. And they've all been done before. Again, if this is not the sort of thing a reader likes- temporary change that then restores, plots that remind you of plots from five or fifty years before- then Big 2 superhero comics might not be the genre you want, you know what I mean? Because that's the game, and has been for a long time.
Matt Fraction once pit it very well, it may have even been on a CGS interview, I forget-- that at the Big 2 the job is to "break the toys as artfully as possible before putting them back together again." And if you enjoy the art of that done well (I do) then great. But "will it stick?" or "but has this been done before?" are irrelevant metrics to this genre, I think.
If memory serves correctly, in the "recent" Invasion storyline Thor-girl ™ ended up being a Skrull. But for the life of me, I can't remember what happened to the real Thor-girl ™ (Tarene the Designate - whatever that means). Anyone care to enlighten me?
I am assuming that "Thor is now a woman" is not the return of Thor-girl ™ (although, I think I would like that).
Thor Girl was not a Skrull. She was last seen fighting the good fight in Fear Itself.
Is Thor just not Thor? They did it with Loki. though I don't think an eventual kid version of Thor will be as awesome as kid Loki was.
Is Falcon cap going to just use the shield as a shield or is he going to throw it around and negate the very cool scene where Hawkeye was told he was the only one that could actually use the shield and not kill himself.
There was a scene like that?
Last time I saw Hawkeye use the shield, he used it pretty well. But he felt like he was "diddling with my best friend's wife."
I would not call this article stupid, insulting, or ignorant, but the writer does have Marvel is doing it right slant to the article. The article does get it right that both are trying with varying degrees of success.
I guess this is all very interesting, mostly to the news outlets, but this feels such a publicity stunt. Is there anyone here doubting Thor & Steve will be back? And didn't they just do the 'former partner become Cap' storyline? Granted, it's been decades since there was a super soldier serum hiccup that altered Steve to be the normal Cap, but still.
I wonder if Marvel is kicking themselves they had Rhoadey become Iron Man 30 years ago? Anyone reading Iron Man feel THAT was a publicity stunt & short-term?
M
Does it matter if Steve and Thor come back? The point is for at least one story arc there will be a seat change. I will say this again comics need all the publicity and positive stories they can get. We are all getting older, and we need new people to get into this hobby for it to survive.
Yes & no. I don't necessarily think dropping Falcon so Wilson can become Cap is the way to do things. I'd rather see a non-costume guy take up the mantle then an established one.
IF its felt having a female Thor & an African-American Cap for, say a year, will generate new sales for that one year, I'm not sure its worth it.
Introducing Batwoman as a lesbian or Ms. Marvel as a Muslim seems like a better way to gain & maintain sales. Those don't feel short-lived.
M
In this case I believe this will be the first time Steve Rogers has selected his replacement while he was still alive. We have seen that when Steve picks his replacement he wants someone he can trust. I am not sure how we are loosing Falcon if the same guy will be around in a different costume.
All sales boosts are temporary. No company can keep a book at consistently high sales over the long term. That is the nature of serialized fiction. All you can hope for is you get a few more new people to try a book, and hope they stick around for the long term.
Wilson is sliding from one identity to another. Unless he's also finding a replacement, Falcon is being lost.
In the strictest sense that maybe correct, but I am not sure the Falcon character has transcended beyond Sam Wilson in a wing suit. As Captain America he will be Sam Wilson in a wing suit I am not sure the "character" is being lost.
Wilson is sliding from one identity to another. Unless he's also finding a replacement, Falcon is being lost.
In the strictest sense that maybe correct, but I am not sure the Falcon character has transcended beyond Sam Wilson in a wing suit. As Captain America he will be Sam Wilson in a wing suit I am not sure the "character" is being lost.
Its subjective on my part, but when Dick Grayson became Batman, Nightwing was sacrificed. Since Wilson is using the Cap handle, I feel the same about the Falcon handle.
Wilson is sliding from one identity to another. Unless he's also finding a replacement, Falcon is being lost.
In the strictest sense that maybe correct, but I am not sure the Falcon character has transcended beyond Sam Wilson in a wing suit. As Captain America he will be Sam Wilson in a wing suit I am not sure the "character" is being lost.
Its subjective on my part, but when Dick Grayson became Batman, Nightwing was sacrificed. Since Wilson is using the Cap handle, I feel the same about the Falcon handle.
M
Totally different situations. Nightwing had a solo book for 10-15 years before donning the Batman id. Dick Grayson took on the Nightwing persona to help separate himself from Batman, and step out of shadows of being his sidekick. Sam Wilson has never been Cap's sidekick, he has always been a partner.
Bucky taking over as Cap was in the same vein as Dick Grayson taking over as Batman. Both former sidekicks who lived in the shadow of their mentors. The only difference was that Nightwing was established while bucky was trying to find himself as he took over.
Maybe this would be interesting if like every Marvel character wouldn't have something like this happening. Doc Ock Peter Parker, New Ms. Marvel, New Captain America.
And I don't care that the new Thor is female it could be any other male and I would feel the same way. My Captain America is Steve Rogers, My Batman is Bruce Wayne, And my Thor is Donald Blake.
Maybe this would be interesting if like every Marvel character wouldn't have something like this happening. Doc Ock Peter Parker, New Ms. Marvel, New Captain America.
And I don't care that the new Thor is female it could be any other male and I would feel the same way. My Captain America is Steve Rogers, My Batman is Bruce Wayne, And my Thor is Donald Blake.
Well then they're already replaced your Thor, as they haven't been using the Donald Blake alter ego for years now.
I don't care that the new Thor is female it could be any other male and I would feel the same way. My Captain America is Steve Rogers, My Batman is Bruce Wayne, And my Thor is Donald Blake.
Well then they're already replaced your Thor, as they haven't been using the Donald Blake alter ego for years now.
I don't care that the new Thor is female it could be any other male and I would feel the same way. My Captain America is Steve Rogers, My Batman is Bruce Wayne, And my Thor is Donald Blake.
Well then they're already replaced your Thor, as they haven't been using the Donald Blake alter ego for years now.
Thanks @DoctorDoom. I remember that storyline (mainly for that cover), but I couldn't remember what happened to Thor-girl afterwards. Thanks for the reminder about her role in "Fear Itself".
Now, I'll admit that I have not really been happy with Marvel since NOW started, it has basically taken my comics train and threw it off the tracks, but I still held out hope that after a year or so things would get back to normal. However, Marvel has gone the complete opposite way with the Thor and Cap news. Can somebody please tell me what the heck has happened this past year that we have landed at this point. I am fine with any spoilers because at this point I barely care, about the past 2 years, I just NEED TO KNOW. I just hope that someway Marvel can find its way back. Thank you
Now, I'll admit that I have not really been happy with Marvel since NOW started, it has basically taken my comics train and threw it off the tracks, but I still held out hope that after a year or so things would get back to normal. However, Marvel has gone the complete opposite way with the Thor and Cap news. Can somebody please tell me what the heck has happened this past year that we have landed at this point. I am fine with any spoilers because at this point I barely care, about the past 2 years, I just NEED TO KNOW. I just hope that someway Marvel can find its way back. Thank you
just hold out for 6-8 months. Once Avengers 2 generates more steam toward its release date this'll just be a Wikipedia entry.
Now, I'll admit that I have not really been happy with Marvel since NOW started, it has basically taken my comics train and threw it off the tracks, but I still held out hope that after a year or so things would get back to normal. However, Marvel has gone the complete opposite way with the Thor and Cap news. Can somebody please tell me what the heck has happened this past year that we have landed at this point. I am fine with any spoilers because at this point I barely care, about the past 2 years, I just NEED TO KNOW. I just hope that someway Marvel can find its way back. Thank you
Start reading All New Ghost Rider. It's pretty great, and has been Johnny Blaze free... Well mostly free; he's supposed to start showing up soon.
Now, I'll admit that I have not really been happy with Marvel since NOW started, it has basically taken my comics train and threw it off the tracks, but I still held out hope that after a year or so things would get back to normal. However, Marvel has gone the complete opposite way with the Thor and Cap news. Can somebody please tell me what the heck has happened this past year that we have landed at this point. I am fine with any spoilers because at this point I barely care, about the past 2 years, I just NEED TO KNOW. I just hope that someway Marvel can find its way back. Thank you
Re: "What is Marvel doing?"
I'm not sure how to answer the question. That is, if it is actually a question you are seeking an answer for. (It sounds a bit rhetorical.)
What are they doing? They are doing lots of things. The news around Thor and Cap are things that haven't happened yet and, when they do, will probably be a tiny part of the many things that are happening at the moment. For example, I think the current All New X-Men/ Uncanny X-Men books have been the best they have been in years and years. And will likely not be affected a bit by the new Cap and Thor.
(Which is not to say I am worried about avoiding those, myself, just a reminder that Marvel publishes a LOT of books, and most of them actually don't affect each other. Another example is that the new Ms. Marvel got a lot of attention. And a lot of people who were probably never going to read it anyway spoke at length about why they don't like the idea. But as of right now, the character is in one book. Leaving those readers dozens and dozens of books a month to read that are not affected by 'that thing Marvel did'. You know what I mean?)
And even when the Marvel NOW! branding launched a lot of the titles actually continued basically doing what they were doing before NOW! launched, while some others changed. Clearly there is some things you didn't like then. And some things you have heard about in comics that haven't come out yet you don't like the sound of. But without better knowing what you didn't like about NOW!, or what you DO like in general, it is sort of a hard question to answer. You know what I mean.
Marvel needs to find it's way back to what exactly? When is the time you are thinking of, and how is it so different from now? (Or, I guess, from "NOW!")
But to the general question of "What is Marvel doing?", I guess my answers as a reader would be:
A. The same sort of things they have been doing since the 1960s and
B. A good job at it
For myself, I was enjoying a good amount of Marvel titles prior to the NOW! branding. And, it seems, post-NOW! there are even more titles I am enjoying. So, for me, whatever it is that Marvel is doing, I hope they keep doing it.
Hmm, to take the venom out of the original post here is what I think Marvel is doing with its Now program. In many ways it mirrors what they are doing with the movies. Phase one they have established two big pillars in their universe the Avengers and the X-Men. All of the other books orbit around them, as they have for 20 years, but the change is the connections are mostly pretty loose. They have also established two long story arcs which for those books that will not be resolved immediately, but do have certain chapter points like the individual movies lead up to the Avengers yet the story did not end there.
The last phase of Marvel Now reminds me a lot of what we are getting with the movies. A lot of experimental books that are looking to expand the audience in different ways. Adding a bunch of indie creators to established B-list characters to give them a fresh take. In the same way we are now getting Guardians and Ant-Man movies.
For me, this has been one of the best initiatives Marvel has tried in awhile. It was a win for me when they took Bendis off the Avengers so yeah me!
Comments
IF its felt having a female Thor & an African-American Cap for, say a year, will generate new sales for that one year, I'm not sure its worth it.
Introducing Batwoman as a lesbian or Ms. Marvel as a Muslim seems like a better way to gain & maintain sales. Those don't feel short-lived.
M
Like everything else in these sorts of comics- something changes from the premise, and then changes back. Sometimes it is peril that lasts a few pages, sometimes it is a story that plays out over two years. But of course the the brand returns to the brand. You might as well see Batman and Robin tied to a chair on the last page of an issue and wonder,"Batman tied to a chair! How long will THAT last?" Because in these open-ended serials all conflict and nearly all change is temporary.
And the stories have to come from somewhere. And they've all been done before. Again, if this is not the sort of thing a reader likes- temporary change that then restores, plots that remind you of plots from five or fifty years before- then Big 2 superhero comics might not be the genre you want, you know what I mean? Because that's the game, and has been for a long time.
Matt Fraction once pit it very well, it may have even been on a CGS interview, I forget-- that at the Big 2 the job is to "break the toys as artfully as possible before putting them back together again." And if you enjoy the art of that done well (I do) then great. But "will it stick?" or "but has this been done before?" are irrelevant metrics to this genre, I think.
Last time I saw Hawkeye use the shield, he used it pretty well. But he felt like he was "diddling with my best friend's wife."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/20/dc-comics-diversity-crisis-why-the-status-quo-rules.html
All sales boosts are temporary. No company can keep a book at consistently high sales over the long term. That is the nature of serialized fiction. All you can hope for is you get a few more new people to try a book, and hope they stick around for the long term.
M
Bucky taking over as Cap was in the same vein as Dick Grayson taking over as Batman. Both former sidekicks who lived in the shadow of their mentors. The only difference was that Nightwing was established while bucky was trying to find himself as he took over.
Previous to that, she was revealed to be replaced by a Skrull in Avengers Initiative #18
And I don't care that the new Thor is female it could be any other male and I would feel the same way. My Captain America is Steve Rogers, My Batman is Bruce Wayne, And my Thor is Donald Blake.
M
I'm not sure how to answer the question. That is, if it is actually a question you are seeking an answer for. (It sounds a bit rhetorical.)
What are they doing? They are doing lots of things. The news around Thor and Cap are things that haven't happened yet and, when they do, will probably be a tiny part of the many things that are happening at the moment. For example, I think the current All New X-Men/ Uncanny X-Men books have been the best they have been in years and years. And will likely not be affected a bit by the new Cap and Thor.
(Which is not to say I am worried about avoiding those, myself, just a reminder that Marvel publishes a LOT of books, and most of them actually don't affect each other. Another example is that the new Ms. Marvel got a lot of attention. And a lot of people who were probably never going to read it anyway spoke at length about why they don't like the idea. But as of right now, the character is in one book. Leaving those readers dozens and dozens of books a month to read that are not affected by 'that thing Marvel did'. You know what I mean?)
And even when the Marvel NOW! branding launched a lot of the titles actually continued basically doing what they were doing before NOW! launched, while some others changed. Clearly there is some things you didn't like then. And some things you have heard about in comics that haven't come out yet you don't like the sound of. But without better knowing what you didn't like about NOW!, or what you DO like in general, it is sort of a hard question to answer. You know what I mean.
Marvel needs to find it's way back to what exactly? When is the time you are thinking of, and how is it so different from now? (Or, I guess, from "NOW!")
But to the general question of "What is Marvel doing?", I guess my answers as a reader would be:
A. The same sort of things they have been doing since the 1960s and
B. A good job at it
For myself, I was enjoying a good amount of Marvel titles prior to the NOW! branding. And, it seems, post-NOW! there are even more titles I am enjoying. So, for me, whatever it is that Marvel is doing, I hope they keep doing it.
The last phase of Marvel Now reminds me a lot of what we are getting with the movies. A lot of experimental books that are looking to expand the audience in different ways.
Adding a bunch of indie creators to established B-list characters to give them a fresh take. In the same way we are now getting Guardians and Ant-Man movies.
For me, this has been one of the best initiatives Marvel has tried in awhile. It was a win for me when they took Bendis off the Avengers so yeah me!