I'm a big Marvel and DC guy but I have Zero interest in either one at the moment which sucks because I love those two Universes. Gimmicks after gimmicks and I'm very tired of them.
I'm a big Marvel and DC guy but I have Zero interest in either one at the moment which sucks because I love those two Universes. Gimmicks after gimmicks and I'm very tired of them.
If you can dig through all the gimmicks and events, Marvel actually has a handful of books I find to be truly excellent, and which are gimmick-free for the most part. Hawkeye, She-Hulk, Daredevil, Silver Surfer, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider are all well worth checking out, and though I haven't read it yet, I expect to add Rocket Raccoon to that list.
And DC has... well, they have Aquaman and Wonder Woman.
I'm a big Marvel and DC guy but I have Zero interest in either one at the moment which sucks because I love those two Universes. Gimmicks after gimmicks and I'm very tired of them.
I love the All New Ghost Rider; it is exciting to see a this version. The art is really cool and the story has been really good. A cool car and a cool look GR.
Is Thor just not Thor? They did it with Loki. though I don't think an eventual kid version of Thor will be as awesome as kid Loki was.
Is Falcon cap going to just use the shield as a shield or is he going to throw it around and negate the very cool scene where Hawkeye was told he was the only one that could actually use the shield and not kill himself.
Is Falcon cap going to just use the shield as a shield or is he going to throw it around and negate the very cool scene where Hawkeye was told he was the only one that could actually use the shield and not kill himself.
I've been wondering about this, too.
There was a similar scene in Cap's own title where it was revealed that Bucky Cap could throw the shield around because of his trick mechanical arm.
Does Falcon have the strength to whip the shield around? If not, perhaps he should use the energy shield.
I'm going with Carol Danvers as Thor. from the Meet Marvel's Avenger Now thread
I guess that will cut back on the mead drinking.
I'm sure Aaron will write a good story. He made Ghost Rider awesome; so I'm in the I'm in the man's camp. However if I decide to to get it, it will be in the trades.
Does Falcon have the strength to whip the shield around? If not, perhaps he should use the energy shield.
I was wondering about Falcon's strength level too. Isn't he just a "normal" dude? Aside from the mechanical wings and the ability to talk to birds and see through their eyes (that's "normal", right?).
I would love to see the return of Cap's energy shield.
I'm pretty sure Vance Astro (Major Victory) whipped around Cap's shield in the future, but he probably used his TK to help out.
Does Falcon have the strength to whip the shield around? If not, perhaps he should use the energy shield.
I was wondering about Falcon's strength level too. Isn't he just a "normal" dude? Aside from the mechanical wings and the ability to talk to birds and see through their eyes (that's "normal", right?).
I would love to see the return of Cap's energy shield.
I'm pretty sure Vance Astro (Major Victory) whipped around Cap's shield in the future, but he probably used his TK to help out.
The last I remember seeing the energy shield was in the Steve Rogers, Super Soldier mini from a couple of years ago. It's also one of the recent times that the Super Soldier serum was deactivated in Rogers body. He didn't age. He was just Super Skinny.
First let me say it is nice you are going to read the books. This seemed to be a repeat of your obsession with seeing the failure of Ms. Marvel. It seemed you just wanted to find the negative in that title. It just seemed like it was a waste of energy.
Thanks @matchkitJOHN. You probably just missed the part in that thread where I mentioned that I wasn't interested in a book aimed at teen girls (i.e. Ms. Marvel) and didn't like the art. Someone else made it about something else...
In fact, as you said yourself, we're mostly in agreement. I'm just trying to further the discussion, and you seemed to be one of the people willing to engage in the type of discussion I’m more interested in having.
I do enjoy these sorts of debates @nweathington. I suppose I just never like being in the minority... irony alert? With all the vitriol I've seen elsewhere I sometimes wonder if I'm in a silent majority... just hopeful I guess.
I haven't been reading Aaron’s Thor. I have the first trade on my overly large to-be-read pile, and if I like it, I'll get the next trade and so on. Eventually I may get this upcoming storyline if I like everything leading up to it.
I have every issue so far and plan to continue getting it unless it begins to diminish in brilliance. He's great.
Do I enjoy the incessant hype machine of DC and Marvel? Nope. I see the necessity of it, and sometimes an interesting interview comes out of it, and I do like to see a few preview pages of a book if it has an artist I'm not familiar with, but for the most part I ignore the press release regurgitations that litter the comic book “news” sites. That's the reason I don't frequent those sites regularly.
Do I like the gimmicks employed to provide temporary bumps in comic book sales? Nope. I don't buy variant covers (or I should say, I won’t buy multiple copies of a book just to get a variant cover. If a book has multiple covers, and they all cost the same, I'll pick the one with the cover I like best, whether that be a variant or the regular cover). I don't read event books. Etc., etc.
Same. I won't overpay for a variant cover, but if one is offered that I like better than the main cover, and the cost difference is minimal if at all, then I'll buy it.
Is this Thor story being done for sensationalism? I’m sure that’s at least part of it. Is it being done for the sake of diversity? Well, it's only a temporary change, so that's somewhat debatable, but there's at least an element of diversity at work here.
All that being said, as someone who used to work at a comic shop many years ago, I also have a certain amount of appreciation for the early and constant promotions. Comic shops want pre-orders. They want sales any way they can get them, but they especially want pre-orders. Believe me, they make a world of difference to a comic shop owner. If I was running a shop today, I’d be ecstatic to see anything that might get my customers (or potential customers) to order a book before the Previews deadline.
Here is where our opinion differs. First, I think that had these changes been announced the Monday of the week these books were coming out, and Marvel had reprints ready to go, this would have been considered gonzo marketing blitz and a grand slam in sales. As it is, neither the Cap book or the Thor book are out yet. Heck, they could've even hinted to encourage the retailers to increase the orders of both books without saying why (double or triple order and offer full returns). Odds are though that, given Marvel's penchant for renumbering to #1 every time something big changes, these will both be solicited as first issues in an "all-new direction!" or something like that so they wouldn't have been able to keep it secret going that route. Unoriginal - whatever.
Second, if pre-orders was the goal, they didn't even wait until you could pre-order the book. If I suddenly want the new female Thor or black Cap, I can't even pre-order it yet. You could say that will get people to come into the comic stores and get the issues that are out now to get in on the story ahead of time, but it seems kind of lame just the same. Perhaps they will both be solicited in the next Previews catalog which comes out in a couple of weeks. Unless the news keeps BOTH of these stories in the news cycle for two or three more weeks, they might have blown their wad early getting major tv outlets interested so early. But, both books will sell and sell well - that really was never my concern. That's their business, and they are in it to make a profit.
I'm in the camp that agreed with Jamie D when he lambasted Marvel for spoiling the Bucky reveal in Winter Soldier during their one-hour infomercial "Assembling a Universe". Maybe that makes me old fashioned, maybe I long for the comics I read in my youth. I just like to be surprised when I turn the page. I'm not as anti-spoiler as @pants but it's days like these that I can appreciate his fortitude.
11 members? I miss the days when the plot revolved around picking exactly the right 6th member. What happened to Stan Lee's idea that 4 is the best number of team members?
Cynical response: Stan wasn't selling nearly as many toys back then.
Kinder response: Stan was speaking as a writer, not a marketer.
All that being said, as someone who used to work at a comic shop many years ago, I also have a certain amount of appreciation for the early and constant promotions. Comic shops want pre-orders. They want sales any way they can get them, but they especially want pre-orders. Believe me, they make a world of difference to a comic shop owner. If I was running a shop today, I’d be ecstatic to see anything that might get my customers (or potential customers) to order a book before the Previews deadline.
Here is where our opinion differs. First, I think that had these changes been announced the Monday of the week these books were coming out, and Marvel had reprints ready to go, this would have been considered gonzo marketing blitz and a grand slam in sales. As it is, neither the Cap book or the Thor book are out yet. Heck, they could've even hinted to encourage the retailers to increase the orders of both books without saying why (double or triple order and offer full returns). Odds are though that, given Marvel's penchant for renumbering to #1 every time something big changes, these will both be solicited as first issues in an "all-new direction!" or something like that so they wouldn't have been able to keep it secret going that route. Unoriginal - whatever.
Second, if pre-orders was the goal, they didn't even wait until you could pre-order the book. If I suddenly want the new female Thor or black Cap, I can't even pre-order it yet. You could say that will get people to come into the comic stores and get the issues that are out now to get in on the story ahead of time, but it seems kind of lame just the same. Perhaps they will both be solicited in the next Previews catalog which comes out in a couple of weeks. Unless the news keeps BOTH of these stories in the news cycle for two or three more weeks, they might have blown their wad early getting major tv outlets interested so early. But, both books will sell and sell well - that really was never my concern. That's their business, and they are in it to make a profit.
In regards to your first point, this is basically what they did with the Obama appearance in Amazing Spider-Man, and it turned out to be a big headache for a lot of stores. Even though they had let store owners know about it before the ordering deadline, no one really had any idea how heavy to order the book. My LCS (where I used to work) tends to be fairly conservative when ordering things like this, so when the calls started flooding in after the announcement went public (many, many more than expected), there was no way they could fill all the orders, even with the advance reordering system. It took them three weeks to finally get all their orders and reorders filled, and a lot of the walk-in customers were not happy about it to say the least.
As for your second point, no, you can't log into DCBS and place your order yet, but you can walk into any comic shop and reserve your copy today. Just because there isn't a Diamond code for the book yet, it doesn't mean stores can't take down your information. Okay, maybe there are shops with lazy owners who won't take orders that far in advance, but my shop does this all the time. I've pre-ordered books six months in advance on occasion (though I do try to double-check the pre-order once the solicitation is released). They keep a computer database for all the pre-orders, and go through it when placing their orders with Diamond.
Now, you may be right in believing the Thor and Cap announcements were made a couple of weeks too early for maximum impact, but between the two, I'll take early pre-orders over dealing with angry customers any day.
Oh, and I don't think I would use the term “slob” with Quesada's appearance, but he does need to remember that he's not only representing Marvel, but the entire comic industry when he's in that type of spotlight. He's kind of playing into the stereotype dressed like that.
Oh, and I don't think I would use the term “slob” with Quesada's appearance, but he does need to remember that he's not only representing Marvel, but the entire comic industry when he's in that type of spotlight. He's kind of playing into the stereotype dressed like that.
Okay then... how about "a mess?"
LOL
I see little disadvantage to coming out with these announcements the day Previews hits the stores or the night before. With a month to pre-order for maximum discount, holding these announcements off a couple of weeks would've been a real slam dunk. But, again, my issue isn't with the timing, it's the hype in general which isn't going to go away ~ ever. May as well stop being a curmudgeon about it.
If memory serves correctly, in the "recent" Invasion storyline Thor-girl ™ ended up being a Skrull. But for the life of me, I can't remember what happened to the real Thor-girl ™ (Tarene the Designate - whatever that means). Anyone care to enlighten me?
I am assuming that "Thor is now a woman" is not the return of Thor-girl ™ (although, I think I would like that).
The last I remember seeing the energy shield was in the Steve Rogers, Super Soldier mini from a couple of years ago.
I think USAgent might have been sporting the energy shield for a while as well. I don't think we have seen John Walker since his time with the Dark Avengers.
Next week Comic-Con will spend a lot of time promoting movies, TV shows, and even some comics, that are as much as a year away. There will be no way to preorder or DVR program for many or most of these things yet. But building buzz for something can start early. It seems to have worked out in the past.
It could be that Marvel pushed for press now since this is a time when mainstream media gives a little more news hole room for comics. When it comes to press, I would say comics takes it when they can get it.
Is Thor just not Thor? They did it with Loki. though I don't think an eventual kid version of Thor will be as awesome as kid Loki was.
Is Falcon cap going to just use the shield as a shield or is he going to throw it around and negate the very cool scene where Hawkeye was told he was the only one that could actually use the shield and not kill himself.
We've seen "Unworthy Thor" as well so I think we are supposed to assume he will still be around while She-Thor is out there.
I love that all the press releases are like "She IS Thor!!!" No she isn't. She is someone with the power of Thor. Like Beta-Ray Bill wasn't Thor or Eric Masterson wasn't Thor. Eventually real Thor will reclaim his hammer and she'll go back to being whoever she was already (I'm betting on the already Norse Valkerie)
Yeah, I've been confused about this "She is Thor" business. She may wield the power of Thor, but how do you become Thor unless old Thor becomes Donald Blake again or something?
I guess this is all very interesting, mostly to the news outlets, but this feels such a publicity stunt. Is there anyone here doubting Thor & Steve will be back? And didn't they just do the 'former partner become Cap' storyline? Granted, it's been decades since there was a super soldier serum hiccup that altered Steve to be the normal Cap, but still.
I wonder if Marvel is kicking themselves they had Rhoadey become Iron Man 30 years ago? Anyone reading Iron Man feel THAT was a publicity stunt & short-term?
For some reason the whole "She-Thor" debate brought my mind back to Final Crisis and how the New Gods were described as ideas given form. So, with that in mind, It could be argued that these "gods" really don't have gender and that the form they take is really driven by a kind of cultural gestalt.
I guess this is all very interesting, mostly to the news outlets, but this feels such a publicity stunt. Is there anyone here doubting Thor & Steve will be back? And didn't they just do the 'former partner become Cap' storyline? Granted, it's been decades since there was a super soldier serum hiccup that altered Steve to be the normal Cap, but still.
I wonder if Marvel is kicking themselves they had Rhoadey become Iron Man 30 years ago? Anyone reading Iron Man feel THAT was a publicity stunt & short-term?
M
Does it matter if Steve and Thor come back? The point is for at least one story arc there will be a seat change. I will say this again comics need all the publicity and positive stories they can get. We are all getting older, and we need new people to get into this hobby for it to survive.
Comments
And DC has... well, they have Aquaman and Wonder Woman.
Is Falcon cap going to just use the shield as a shield or is he going to throw it around and negate the very cool scene where Hawkeye was told he was the only one that could actually use the shield and not kill himself.
There was a similar scene in Cap's own title where it was revealed that Bucky Cap could throw the shield around because of his trick mechanical arm.
Does Falcon have the strength to whip the shield around? If not, perhaps he should use the energy shield.
I'm sure Aaron will write a good story. He made Ghost Rider awesome; so I'm in the I'm in the man's camp. However if I decide to to get it, it will be in the trades.
On topic: I'm going to give it a shot, a lot of new people for em so I'll see what Hickman does.
I would love to see the return of Cap's energy shield.
I'm pretty sure Vance Astro (Major Victory) whipped around Cap's shield in the future, but he probably used his TK to help out.
Second, if pre-orders was the goal, they didn't even wait until you could pre-order the book. If I suddenly want the new female Thor or black Cap, I can't even pre-order it yet. You could say that will get people to come into the comic stores and get the issues that are out now to get in on the story ahead of time, but it seems kind of lame just the same. Perhaps they will both be solicited in the next Previews catalog which comes out in a couple of weeks. Unless the news keeps BOTH of these stories in the news cycle for two or three more weeks, they might have blown their wad early getting major tv outlets interested so early. But, both books will sell and sell well - that really was never my concern. That's their business, and they are in it to make a profit.
I'm in the camp that agreed with Jamie D when he lambasted Marvel for spoiling the Bucky reveal in Winter Soldier during their one-hour infomercial "Assembling a Universe". Maybe that makes me old fashioned, maybe I long for the comics I read in my youth. I just like to be surprised when I turn the page. I'm not as anti-spoiler as @pants but it's days like these that I can appreciate his fortitude.
Someone please help Joe Quesada get dressed when he goes on TV
Kinder response: Stan was speaking as a writer, not a marketer.
As for your second point, no, you can't log into DCBS and place your order yet, but you can walk into any comic shop and reserve your copy today. Just because there isn't a Diamond code for the book yet, it doesn't mean stores can't take down your information. Okay, maybe there are shops with lazy owners who won't take orders that far in advance, but my shop does this all the time. I've pre-ordered books six months in advance on occasion (though I do try to double-check the pre-order once the solicitation is released). They keep a computer database for all the pre-orders, and go through it when placing their orders with Diamond.
Now, you may be right in believing the Thor and Cap announcements were made a couple of weeks too early for maximum impact, but between the two, I'll take early pre-orders over dealing with angry customers any day.
LOL
I see little disadvantage to coming out with these announcements the day Previews hits the stores or the night before. With a month to pre-order for maximum discount, holding these announcements off a couple of weeks would've been a real slam dunk. But, again, my issue isn't with the timing, it's the hype in general which isn't going to go away ~ ever. May as well stop being a curmudgeon about it.
Nah.
SPOILERS (kinda):
If memory serves correctly, in the "recent" Invasion storyline Thor-girl ™ ended up being a Skrull. But for the life of me, I can't remember what happened to the real Thor-girl ™ (Tarene the Designate - whatever that means). Anyone care to enlighten me?
I am assuming that "Thor is now a woman" is not the return of Thor-girl ™ (although, I think I would like that).
It could be that Marvel pushed for press now since this is a time when mainstream media gives a little more news hole room for comics. When it comes to press, I would say comics takes it when they can get it.
I love that all the press releases are like "She IS Thor!!!" No she isn't. She is someone with the power of Thor. Like Beta-Ray Bill wasn't Thor or Eric Masterson wasn't Thor. Eventually real Thor will reclaim his hammer and she'll go back to being whoever she was already (I'm betting on the already Norse Valkerie)
I wonder if Marvel is kicking themselves they had Rhoadey become Iron Man 30 years ago? Anyone reading Iron Man feel THAT was a publicity stunt & short-term?
M