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Movie News: Ant-Man (Non spoiler)

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    DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586
    I've only read some of ten first issue. But what's up with ten de-aging of Cassie?

    I know they hinted at her resurrection at the end of Allred's FF, but nothing was shown.
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    bamfbamfbamfbamf Posts: 718
    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?
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    TheOriginalGManTheOriginalGMan Posts: 1,763
    edited April 2015
    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    playdohsrepublicplaydohsrepublic Posts: 1,377
    edited April 2015
    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    In the comics he retains his full human strength at his ant size, making it proportionally more powerful (imagine an ant deadlifting 200lbs). More recently Lang has discovered that he can use the Pym particles to make himself stronger, something all the Pym-Giants have been doing unconsciously all along.
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    bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited April 2015

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, a punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man. Seems to fit what we've seen here, even though the Wasp says it is super-human strength.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm

    BTW: I LOL'd at the train scene as well. I am definitely seeing this in the theater.
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    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
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    bamfbamfbamfbamf Posts: 718
    yeah i dont think his "super strength" makes any sense... but i guess i can go with it...

    i understand the whole... krypton had stronger gravitational pull thing... and more water pressure in atlantis and the proportional strength of a spider... but this ant-man power makes no sense
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    I just posted this on my Facebook, but since it relates to Ant-Man I'll post it here too. (Avengers: Age of Ultron thoughts in here as well!)

    RE HANK PYM NO LONGER A "FOUNDING" MEMBER OF THE AVENGERS AND/OR INVENTOR OF ULTRON:

    Aren't BOTH of these still, somewhat possible? Starks father is a founding member of S.H.I.E.L.D. and "The Avengers Initiative" (as explained in the movies) "There was an idea... called the Avengers Initiative. The idea was to bring together a group of of remarkable people to see if they could become something more. To see if they could work together when we needed them to, to fight the battles that we never could." - Nick Fury. S.H.I.E.L.D. created the idea. Starks father, along with others, founded S.H.I.E.L.D. Given the age of Hank Pym in the upcoming Ant-Man movie, and his genius and access to technology, isn't feasible that Hank Pym really WAS also a founding member of S.H.I.E.L.D. and helped conceive the idea of the Avengers Initiative? Thus making him a "founder" of the Avengers?

    Regarding Ultron, hasn't it been said that the "robot drones" being used by Ultron in the trailers were actually tech Tony built BEFORE Ultron shows up? I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that these robots were a plan formerly scrapped by S.H.I.E.L.D. and, if so, wouldn't that also be an easy way to have Hank Pym somewhat involved in Ultrons birth? Via the robotic plans Hank Pym made FOR S.H.I.E.L.D. that Tony re-purposed?
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    AxelBrassAxelBrass Posts: 245
    Comic book physics.
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    playdohsrepublicplaydohsrepublic Posts: 1,377
    edited April 2015

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Actually, there is a pretty funny/horrorfying moment in Kirkman's Irredemable Ant-Man where Eric O'Grady punches someone for the first time and it punctures an artery. He has to learn how to hit people without killing them because it's like firing a bullet at close range.

    image
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    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Relax. It's a comic book.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Tonebone said:

    Relax. It's a comic book.

    Yep.

    If you can take a man and his gizmos shrinking, the rest should follow as given. It's a package deal.
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    CageNarleighCageNarleigh Posts: 729
    edited April 2015
    Tonebone said:

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Relax. It's a comic book.
    Ok. From now on I'll question nothing I read and just take it all at face value. No extraneous comments will henceforth be uttered by me about ANY of the material I encounter in this medium. I also forbid others from thinking outside the box or discussing the physics or real world implications of any of these concepts from this medium.

    Cause it's comics.

    It irritates the CRAP out of me when people tell me "it's just comics" or "it's a comic book". If you just read these stories on face value, GREAT. Good for you. But if I feel like asking questions, let me. You'll note that NOWHERE in what I said that I'd be avoiding the movie or the character overall for this confusion. IN FACT, that's all I said, was that it merely confused me.

    But the notion that I should "relax" because it's "just a comic book"? May as well shut the whole damn forum down if we're not allowed to delve a little deeper than whats on the surface.

    I GET that if I were CRITICIZING the movie/comics based on this, then yeah, "relax". But I'm just ASKING A QUESTION.
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    luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    Ha. I love the Thomas the Tank scene. Genius.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314

    Tonebone said:

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Relax. It's a comic book.
    Ok. From now on I'll question nothing I read and just take it all at face value. No extraneous comments will henceforth be uttered by me about ANY of the material I encounter in this medium. I also forbid others from thinking outside the box or discussing the physics or real world implications of any of these concepts from this medium.

    Cause it's comics.

    It irritates the CRAP out of me when people tell me "it's just comics" or "it's a comic book". If you just read these stories on face value, GREAT. Good for you. But if I feel like asking questions, let me. You'll note that NOWHERE in what I said that I'd be avoiding the movie or the character overall for this confusion. IN FACT, that's all I said, was that it merely confused me.

    But the notion that I should "relax" because it's "just a comic book"? May as well shut the whole damn forum down if we're not allowed to delve a little deeper than whats on the surface.

    I GET that if I were CRITICIZING the movie/comics based on this, then yeah, "relax". But I'm just ASKING A QUESTION.
    Comics takes all sorts of shortcuts.

    A few lines defines a face, a body, a building, a spaceship.

    We accept those shortcuts and take them at face (heh) value, so we can get on with enjoying the story.

    If the creators are doing a good job, we should be able to tune out the little impossibilities just as we tune out the big (heh) ones, like a man shrinking.

    The statement could just as well have been "Relax. It's Shakespeare." or "Relax. It's baseball."

    Few forms of entertainment stand up to being nibbled by ducks.*



    *Says the man who picks apart "Arrow" every week. Quack Quack.
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    BrackBrack Posts: 868
    That was certainly one of those trailers that felt like it had too much of the film's plot structure in it.
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    MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Tonebone said:

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Relax. It's a comic book.
    Ok. From now on I'll question nothing I read and just take it all at face value. No extraneous comments will henceforth be uttered by me about ANY of the material I encounter in this medium. I also forbid others from thinking outside the box or discussing the physics or real world implications of any of these concepts from this medium.

    Cause it's comics.

    It irritates the CRAP out of me when people tell me "it's just comics" or "it's a comic book". If you just read these stories on face value, GREAT. Good for you. But if I feel like asking questions, let me. You'll note that NOWHERE in what I said that I'd be avoiding the movie or the character overall for this confusion. IN FACT, that's all I said, was that it merely confused me.

    But the notion that I should "relax" because it's "just a comic book"? May as well shut the whole damn forum down if we're not allowed to delve a little deeper than whats on the surface.

    I GET that if I were CRITICIZING the movie/comics based on this, then yeah, "relax". But I'm just ASKING A QUESTION.
    Can I at least offer a "relax" on this conversation? I think I can see a bulging vein on your forehead.

    It's not like after your inquiry someone called the Spanish Inquisition; not that anyone really expects them.

    M
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    CageNarleighCageNarleigh Posts: 729
    edited April 2015
    Matt said:

    Tonebone said:

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Relax. It's a comic book.
    Ok. From now on I'll question nothing I read and just take it all at face value. No extraneous comments will henceforth be uttered by me about ANY of the material I encounter in this medium. I also forbid others from thinking outside the box or discussing the physics or real world implications of any of these concepts from this medium.

    Cause it's comics.

    It irritates the CRAP out of me when people tell me "it's just comics" or "it's a comic book". If you just read these stories on face value, GREAT. Good for you. But if I feel like asking questions, let me. You'll note that NOWHERE in what I said that I'd be avoiding the movie or the character overall for this confusion. IN FACT, that's all I said, was that it merely confused me.

    But the notion that I should "relax" because it's "just a comic book"? May as well shut the whole damn forum down if we're not allowed to delve a little deeper than whats on the surface.

    I GET that if I were CRITICIZING the movie/comics based on this, then yeah, "relax". But I'm just ASKING A QUESTION.
    Can I at least offer a "relax" on this conversation? I think I can see a bulging vein on your forehead.

    It's not like after your inquiry someone called the Spanish Inquisition; not that anyone really expects them.

    M
    That's fine. And I get that I might have flipped a little there. But seriously, button pushing for me.

    The idea that I shouldn't ask or question something JUST because "it's comics" bothers me. To me it's not funny, it's more like someone is telling me, "Hey, just shut up and read the damn book (or watch the damn movie) and don't think about it. Nobody cares." I sort of take that switch flip and respond with, "I'll ask whatever the hell I want to ask."

    Nobody asked but there is a sort of deep seeded issue with me. WAY back when I was in middle school, my science teacher showed us 'Jurassic Park' and opened the floor up to questions afterwards about the science behind the film. I tentatively raised my little hand and asked, "I understand how they got the blood to clone the dinosaurs, but how did they bring back the prehistoric plants that the woman was looking at?" My teacher looked at me and said, "It's just a movie" and my classmates laughed. (It sounds fake but I promise you this is 1000% real story)

    I was embarrassed as crap. But these days? I mean, SHE opened the floor to scientific discussion and questions. She shouldn't have been such a....ahem.

    And these days I still feel pretty "challenged" when someone makes it seem like a question shouldn't be asked. I was under the impression this forum is for comic fans to discuss whatever they want comics related. When someone makes it seem like there's something I shouldn't be asking or that it's ridiculous that I'd ask it...it upsets me.

    Apologies if I over-reacted.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314

    That's fine. And I get that I might have flipped a little there. But seriously, button pushing for me.

    Buttons?

    You've got buttons?

    I don't just have buttons, I have levers and dials and knobs.



    Heh. Knobs.
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    David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,881
    edited April 2015

    Matt said:

    Tonebone said:

    bamfbamf said:

    LOVE THE TRAIN SCENE!

    i still don't understand why he is super strong when he shrinks... did pym have this power in the comics?

    I believe so. Or maybe that was Atom Ant? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    When he shrinks to ant size, he retains full size human strength. So, punch delivered by the half-inch high Ant-Man feels like the blow of a normal-sized man.

    http://marveldirectory.com/individuals/a/antmanii.htm
    This has always confused me a little. Let's say Ant-Man (or the Atom from DC since their power works the same way I've gathered) shrink down to their ant size and punch a dude in the face. By shrinking down, doesn't his fist also shrink down? Of course it does. So doesn't it stand to reason that, by shrinking and THEN punching someone in the face his tiny fist is more likely to punch THROUGH the cheek being punched than actually deliver the blow like it would normally happen at normal size? And if his punch breaks the skin rather than striking a massive blow to it....isn't that more like a sting from an insect than a punch from a man?

    I'm not certain ANY of that made sense. Basically what I'm saying is that, is a teeny tiny fist hitting a full sized face at full sized power more likely to have the impact of a full sized fist hitting a full sized face? Or is it more likely to result in a puncture...like a sting from an insect?
    Relax. It's a comic book.
    Ok. From now on I'll question nothing I read and just take it all at face value. No extraneous comments will henceforth be uttered by me about ANY of the material I encounter in this medium. I also forbid others from thinking outside the box or discussing the physics or real world implications of any of these concepts from this medium.

    Cause it's comics.

    It irritates the CRAP out of me when people tell me "it's just comics" or "it's a comic book". If you just read these stories on face value, GREAT. Good for you. But if I feel like asking questions, let me. You'll note that NOWHERE in what I said that I'd be avoiding the movie or the character overall for this confusion. IN FACT, that's all I said, was that it merely confused me.

    But the notion that I should "relax" because it's "just a comic book"? May as well shut the whole damn forum down if we're not allowed to delve a little deeper than whats on the surface.

    I GET that if I were CRITICIZING the movie/comics based on this, then yeah, "relax". But I'm just ASKING A QUESTION.
    Can I at least offer a "relax" on this conversation? I think I can see a bulging vein on your forehead.

    It's not like after your inquiry someone called the Spanish Inquisition; not that anyone really expects them.

    M
    That's fine. And I get that I might have flipped a little there. But seriously, button pushing for me.

    The idea that I shouldn't ask or question something JUST because "it's comics" bothers me. To me it's not funny, it's more like someone is telling me, "Hey, just shut up and read the damn book (or watch the damn movie) and don't think about it. Nobody cares." I sort of take that switch flip and respond with, "I'll ask whatever the hell I want to ask."

    Nobody asked but there is a sort of deep seeded issue with me. WAY back when I was in middle school, my science teacher showed us 'Jurassic Park' and opened the floor up to questions afterwards about the science behind the film. I tentatively raised my little hand and asked, "I understand how they got the blood to clone the dinosaurs, but how did they bring back the prehistoric plants that the woman was looking at?" My teacher looked at me and said, "It's just a movie" and my classmates laughed. (It sounds fake but I promise you this is 1000% real story)

    I was embarrassed as crap. But these days? I mean, SHE opened the floor to scientific discussion and questions. She shouldn't have been such a....ahem.

    And these days I still feel pretty "challenged" when someone makes it seem like a question shouldn't be asked. I was under the impression this forum is for comic fans to discuss whatever they want comics related. When someone makes it seem like there's something I shouldn't be asking or that it's ridiculous that I'd ask it...it upsets me.

    Apologies if I over-reacted.
    If it helps, if everyone told Mark Gruenwald "Relax, it's a comic book" we would have not got the OHOTMU. The wonderfully creative attempts to make the powers make some sense was huge with me as a kid.

    I think nothing wrong with questions. They can be part of the fun.
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    WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    edited April 2015
    David_D said:

    I think nothing wrong with questions. They can be part of the fun.

    Very true.

    But sometime you've just gotta suspend the disbelief.*

    (BTW: Gruenwald was sure a big fan of depleted uranium, wasn't he?)


    *But the creators have to keep the amount of suspension at a level compatible with the "realism" level they establish. Hence the few issues I have with Daredevil.
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    bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    Super-hero science isn't meant to be much more than well constructed techno-babble. Did anyone else get hung up on Wolverine being able to completely heal from being totally charred down to his adamantium bones or (pre-adamantium) being able to survive ground zero during the Hiroshima bomb?

    I actually like a little science in my fiction too, but we can't overthink this stuff.

    Although I admit that I'm quick to jump in and create an argument about comics where one did not exist before :)
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    nweathingtonnweathington Posts: 6,741
    My favorite quote from my favorite editor, Archie Goodwin is, "Shit, man, it's only comics."

    By that he did not mean comics don't matter, or creators shouldn't think about what they're writing or drawing. Or that we shouldn't ponder the physics of a six-inch tall man.

    What he meant is that comics are meant to be fun. Fun to read and fun to make. If it bothers you to the point where you can't enjoy the story, I say don't read it and find something you can enjoy instead. But if you think debating the science behind the Atom's punch is fun, I say debate away and try to ignore those who don't want to join in your fun.
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    Okay, I am totally *IN* on "Ant-Man'!
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    batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    I cannot wait for this.
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    DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586

    I've only read some of ten first issue. But what's up with the de-aging of Cassie?

    I know they hinted at her resurrection at the end of Allred's FF, but nothing was shown.

    Catching up on Axis. A good Doctor Doom brought her back to life.

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    bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967

    I've only read some of ten first issue. But what's up with the de-aging of Cassie?

    I know they hinted at her resurrection at the end of Allred's FF, but nothing was shown.

    Catching up on Axis. A good Doctor Doom brought her back to life.

    In the Avengers: The Children’s Crusade series, Cassie was killed by Doctor Doom while he was attacking Scott Lang. Victor later brought her back in Avengers World #16

    image
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