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DC's next gimmick is...

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  • NickNick Posts: 284
    luke52 said:

    I know there's not a lot of faith in DC at the moment. But let's imagine for just a minute that Villains month is going to be awesome??? We'll be given some great one shots staring villains great and small. And Forever Evil is going to be the best crossover in years.

    Wouldn't that be great???

    I agree with you 100%. Like I said previously I thought WTF would be dumb, but I actually liked the stories and concept a lot (shocking moment on the cover to build suspense). I like the idea of villains month, so I'm staying positive!
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    luke52 said:

    I know there's not a lot of faith in DC at the moment. But let's imagine for just a minute that Villains month is going to be awesome??? We'll be given some great one shots staring villains great and small. And Forever Evil is going to be the best crossover in years.

    Wouldn't that be great???

    Yes, BUT can't they just have the running theme in the books without the Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat One-Shot covers? Covers that are costing more $ and .1,.2, etc to feature more villains?
    Nick said:

    Matt said:



    If you're doing great stories, accompanied by great art, the titles will sell themselves. I think about Johns' run on The Flash. I never collected the title, but I heard such amazing things about the run (pun intended), I pick up the title. I don't recall any OMG month or platinum, hieroglyphic cover edition to sell the book.

    M

    I know this is what we all want to believe, but let's face it, this doesn't always sell comics. Every month a book is cancelled and the fans of the book are saying "this book was great, had a spectacular writer, artist" and so on. It's sad, but just because a great creative team is on a book doesn't mean it will sell. The other point I would say is some books need time to find an audience. If there is a #1 issue (which normally generates higher sales) and it flops, they may even cancel the series before #4 is even solicited. Hard to prove your quality of work if it's cancelled before it's even read.
    Correct, so doing 3D fad (which died years ago) covers to accompany One-Shots should balance the scales? Try mini-series status before an ongoing. Marvel's Transformers series was initially a mini-series that was well received and continued into the 80s!

    M
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    Sometimes I wonder if I was ever really THAT naive with comics where these gimmicks would con me into buying them, beyond the titles I was already getting. Has the comic book industry jaded me or has life?

    Remember back in the 90s when they would do those over-the-top covers and for standard price, you could buy the shit basic cover? I wonder how many of these 3D covers would sell if they were also sold at regular price with the standard cover?

    M
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    Matt said:

    Sometimes I wonder if I was ever really THAT naive with comics where these gimmicks would con me into buying them, beyond the titles I was already getting. Has the comic book industry jaded me or has life?

    Remember back in the 90s when they would do those over-the-top covers and for standard price, you could buy the shit basic cover? I wonder how many of these 3D covers would sell if they were also sold at regular price with the standard cover?

    M

    They might sell better. I was always half-and-half about the special covers -- if it was a series that I bought regularly, I would get the special cover; if it was a title that I never usually bought or only got on occasion, then I wouldn't bother. But the thing was, was that they offered you a choice of a regular cover or the special, and they didn't just foist it on you.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    Matt said:

    Sometimes I wonder if I was ever really THAT naive with comics where these gimmicks would con me into buying them, beyond the titles I was already getting. Has the comic book industry jaded me or has life?

    Remember back in the 90s when they would do those over-the-top covers and for standard price, you could buy the shit basic cover? I wonder how many of these 3D covers would sell if they were also sold at regular price with the standard cover?

    M

    They might sell better. I was always half-and-half about the special covers -- if it was a series that I bought regularly, I would get the special cover; if it was a title that I never usually bought or only got on occasion, then I wouldn't bother. But the thing was, was that they offered you a choice of a regular cover or the special, and they didn't just foist it on you.
    Yeah, it's a fracking monopoly! Its like the college book store!

    M
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    JamieD said:

    sur·feit
    /ˈsərfət/Noun
    An excessive amount of something: "a surfeit of food and drink".


    Verb
    Cause (someone) to desire no more of something as a result of having consumed or done it to excess.


    Synonyms
    noun. satiety - glut - excess - redundance
    verb. overfeed - satiate

    I had to look it up. This is your word of the day

    I've never seen it used as a verb.

    Cool!
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392

    luke52 said:

    @Adam_Murdough what are your views on DC's Villain month? I know you love a good villain story...

    True, I do love a good villain story--but this isn't just "a" villain story, it's a surfeit of villain stories being dumped on the market en masse, all of them conspicuously overpriced, and given DC's track record of late, there's little or no guarantee that more than a handful of them will turn out to be "good" villain stories. The whole business appears to me far less like a cohesive, coordinated storytelling initiative than like a saturation/share-grab "win-the-month" ploy that takes villains as its arbitrary theme.

    That cynically said, however, I know I won't be entirely able to resist taking part in the felonious fun! I'll probably steer clear of the four miniseries, but I'll cherry-pick a very select few of the decimally-numbered one-shots. I'll definitely pick up the Bizarro one, of course, and probably the "Dial E" story featuring work from 20 different artists over 20 pages.
    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    luke52 said:

    luke52 said:

    @Adam_Murdough what are your views on DC's Villain month? I know you love a good villain story...

    True, I do love a good villain story--but this isn't just "a" villain story, it's a surfeit of villain stories being dumped on the market en masse, all of them conspicuously overpriced, and given DC's track record of late, there's little or no guarantee that more than a handful of them will turn out to be "good" villain stories. The whole business appears to me far less like a cohesive, coordinated storytelling initiative than like a saturation/share-grab "win-the-month" ploy that takes villains as its arbitrary theme.

    That cynically said, however, I know I won't be entirely able to resist taking part in the felonious fun! I'll probably steer clear of the four miniseries, but I'll cherry-pick a very select few of the decimally-numbered one-shots. I'll definitely pick up the Bizarro one, of course, and probably the "Dial E" story featuring work from 20 different artists over 20 pages.
    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.
    That's what we're talking about: it's all Forever Evil. The FE book itself is a patch between the events in the Justice League crossover and all of the villain books replacing the regular titles in September. It's all connected.

  • luckymustardluckymustard Posts: 927

    luke52 said:

    luke52 said:

    @Adam_Murdough what are your views on DC's Villain month? I know you love a good villain story...

    True, I do love a good villain story--but this isn't just "a" villain story, it's a surfeit of villain stories being dumped on the market en masse, all of them conspicuously overpriced, and given DC's track record of late, there's little or no guarantee that more than a handful of them will turn out to be "good" villain stories. The whole business appears to me far less like a cohesive, coordinated storytelling initiative than like a saturation/share-grab "win-the-month" ploy that takes villains as its arbitrary theme.

    That cynically said, however, I know I won't be entirely able to resist taking part in the felonious fun! I'll probably steer clear of the four miniseries, but I'll cherry-pick a very select few of the decimally-numbered one-shots. I'll definitely pick up the Bizarro one, of course, and probably the "Dial E" story featuring work from 20 different artists over 20 pages.
    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.
    That's what we're talking about: it's all Forever Evil. The FE book itself is a patch between the events in the Justice League crossover and all of the villain books replacing the regular titles in September. It's all connected.

    But there is the main Forever Evil book, which solicits released on DC's official site/blog this morning indicate at least the first issue (of 7) is 48 pages for $3.99.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392

    luke52 said:

    luke52 said:

    @Adam_Murdough what are your views on DC's Villain month? I know you love a good villain story...

    True, I do love a good villain story--but this isn't just "a" villain story, it's a surfeit of villain stories being dumped on the market en masse, all of them conspicuously overpriced, and given DC's track record of late, there's little or no guarantee that more than a handful of them will turn out to be "good" villain stories. The whole business appears to me far less like a cohesive, coordinated storytelling initiative than like a saturation/share-grab "win-the-month" ploy that takes villains as its arbitrary theme.

    That cynically said, however, I know I won't be entirely able to resist taking part in the felonious fun! I'll probably steer clear of the four miniseries, but I'll cherry-pick a very select few of the decimally-numbered one-shots. I'll definitely pick up the Bizarro one, of course, and probably the "Dial E" story featuring work from 20 different artists over 20 pages.
    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.
    That's what we're talking about: it's all Forever Evil. The FE book itself is a patch between the events in the Justice League crossover and all of the villain books replacing the regular titles in September. It's all connected.

    Yeah, I'm aware if that. I was just wondering what Murd thought of Forever Evil as a line wide crossover event, being villain centric and all, rather then just his thoughts on septembers villain month.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    luke52 said:

    luke52 said:

    luke52 said:

    @Adam_Murdough what are your views on DC's Villain month? I know you love a good villain story...

    True, I do love a good villain story--but this isn't just "a" villain story, it's a surfeit of villain stories being dumped on the market en masse, all of them conspicuously overpriced, and given DC's track record of late, there's little or no guarantee that more than a handful of them will turn out to be "good" villain stories. The whole business appears to me far less like a cohesive, coordinated storytelling initiative than like a saturation/share-grab "win-the-month" ploy that takes villains as its arbitrary theme.

    That cynically said, however, I know I won't be entirely able to resist taking part in the felonious fun! I'll probably steer clear of the four miniseries, but I'll cherry-pick a very select few of the decimally-numbered one-shots. I'll definitely pick up the Bizarro one, of course, and probably the "Dial E" story featuring work from 20 different artists over 20 pages.
    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.
    That's what we're talking about: it's all Forever Evil. The FE book itself is a patch between the events in the Justice League crossover and all of the villain books replacing the regular titles in September. It's all connected.

    Yeah, I'm aware if that. I was just wondering what Murd thought of Forever Evil as a line wide crossover event, being villain centric and all, rather then just his thoughts on septembers villain month.
    Ah.

    Okay.
  • luckymustardluckymustard Posts: 927

    luke52 said:

    luke52 said:

    @Adam_Murdough what are your views on DC's Villain month? I know you love a good villain story...

    True, I do love a good villain story--but this isn't just "a" villain story, it's a surfeit of villain stories being dumped on the market en masse, all of them conspicuously overpriced, and given DC's track record of late, there's little or no guarantee that more than a handful of them will turn out to be "good" villain stories. The whole business appears to me far less like a cohesive, coordinated storytelling initiative than like a saturation/share-grab "win-the-month" ploy that takes villains as its arbitrary theme.

    That cynically said, however, I know I won't be entirely able to resist taking part in the felonious fun! I'll probably steer clear of the four miniseries, but I'll cherry-pick a very select few of the decimally-numbered one-shots. I'll definitely pick up the Bizarro one, of course, and probably the "Dial E" story featuring work from 20 different artists over 20 pages.
    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.
    That's what we're talking about: it's all Forever Evil. The FE book itself is a patch between the events in the Justice League crossover and all of the villain books replacing the regular titles in September. It's all connected.

    But there is the main Forever Evil book, which solicits released on DC's official site/blog this morning indicate at least the first issue (of 7) is 48 pages for $3.99.
    And after Murd negatively speaking about the whole crossover event, I'm now curious as to what he thinks about just this one title. There were a lot of crossover titles tied into CoIE.
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    David_D said:

    I want them to do a cover gimmick where the same creator names are on the cover for more than a couple months.

    Word.

  • luke52 said:


    How about Forever Evil? This sounds like it may be a villain story. Reading up on sime if the solicits and interviews it almost sounds like this will be a villain centric story, with some villains playing the part of the hero.

    Well, the premise of the core miniseries--a Luthor-centric story about villains running amok in a DCU minus a Justice League, with appearances by tons of villains (some of them making their New 52 debut) and even a few lesser-known heroes thrust into a starring role by the League's absence--is definitely appealing. But I have the same basic problem with "Forever Evil" as an event as I have with "Villains Month" overall: it's not just one story, it's four stories, the tentpole miniseries plus the Rogues, Arkham War, and A.R.G.U.S. "supporting" miniseries, comprising a total of 22 issues. Not counting the 52 "Villains Month" one-shots. It's overkill, and it's a major turn-off for this comics consumer.

    I must admit, $3.99 for the 48-page Forever Evil #1 is a pretty good buy these days, and I may just order a copy, especially if DCBS offers it at a special discount, as they probably will. But unless the other six issues are equally competitively priced, that's as far as I'll go. And I'm not touching the ancillary miniseries until they hit the discount bins.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392



    I must admit, $3.99 for the 48-page Forever Evil #1 is a pretty good buy these days, and I may just order a copy, especially if DCBS offers it at a special discount, as they probably will. But unless the other six issues are equally competitively priced, that's as far as I'll go. And I'm not touching the ancillary miniseries until they hit the discount bins.

    I'm kind of hoping you guys will spotlight the series. Being as this is the first New 52 line wide crossover event. Of course I also know you guys only have so much time and money to give. But anyway, here's hoping.
  • ElsiebubElsiebub Posts: 338
    Now that we've seen all the solicits, I'm not TOTALLY negative on this.

    I'll buy Wonder Woman like usual. Azzarello doing a First Born-centric issue makes perfect sense. And the Cheetah issue looks fun as well.

    The Swamp Thing issue with Arcane -- can't see Soule turning in a bad script there, so I'm happy to buy that.

    The "Dial E" issue looks like it could be fun, but it could also be a total mess. Not going to risk $4 on it, but I'm hoping they include it in the Dial H vol. 2 collection.

    Other than that... Er... I'll probably pick up a handful of the Batman titles. Whatever I'm in the mood for, informed by reviews I see online. I almost hate to say it, because it seems so gimmicky, but I'm intrigued by the Joker's Daughter issue.

    On the one hand, as a few others have said, this COULD be a good opportunity. New creative teams on new characters. Sounds like the makings of a lot of fairly self-contained one-shots, and within all this shake-up maybe there's actually a few creators who really have a good story to tell that wouldn't've made it out any other way.

    But the thing is... at this point it's just hard to give DC the benefit of the doubt. Editorial has been leaning so heavily on their writers, and there's no reason to suspect that they'd ease up now, during a month of $3.99 gimmickery. And, lastly, this is a typical "old man" complaint, but these comics are only 20 pages now, and while they aren't all "decompressed", I just find it increasingly difficult to believe that enough good, solid, one-shot stories can even be produced within the confines of 20 pages (some of which are always splash pages) and the modern writing style. Love to be proven wrong on that come September, though.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    WetRats said:
    He admits that DC is losing momentum and that the slew of upcoming crossovers will fix that.

    Lotsa luck. Because I think those are the very things that are driving readers away. I think they're going to lose a lot of money on those 3D covers. I, for one, will not be buying a single issue that month, except for a few titles that fall outside of the New52.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314

    WetRats said:
    He admits that DC is losing momentum and that the slew of upcoming crossovers will fix that.

    Lotsa luck. Because I think those are the very things that are driving readers away. I think they're going to lose a lot of money on those 3D covers. I, for one, will not be buying a single issue that month, except for a few titles that fall outside of the New52.
    The verb "flailing" keeps suggesting itself.

    If this stunt *does* fail, despite DC's exhorting the retailers to order more copies, do you think heads* will roll?

    *Bald, goateed heads, that is...
  • NickNick Posts: 284
    If DC is really losing money, then won't them selling less copies actually be beneficial to them? I know there is a print run and they'll have to make X thousand copies, but it sounds like it's a fixed number, maybe I'm just not reading it right. I am trying to stay out of the business side of comics and just enjoy them for what they are, seeing the sausage made etc.
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314
    Nick said:

    If DC is really losing money, then won't them selling less copies actually be beneficial to them? I know there is a print run and they'll have to make X thousand copies, but it sounds like it's a fixed number, maybe I'm just not reading it right. I am trying to stay out of the business side of comics and just enjoy them for what they are, seeing the sausage made etc.

    I'm in more of a "Why does this sausage taste rancid?" stage myself.
  • mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 4,637
    @Nick
    Here's a really simple example of how it would work out. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence I just thought it might help.

    DC is producing let's say 90,000 copies of Batman based on initial orders of the title. The total cost involved with producing that comic (writer, artists, editors, printing etc.) is already set (regardless of actual orders), so DC is projecting its loss based on the fixed print run. So DC gets $1.00 an issue in revenue but each issue costs $1.10. Based on their projected numbers DC would lose $9000.00 on Batman for the month.

    What they don't want is for retailers only to order 75,000 of that 90,000 because then their projected loss becomes an increased actual loss. DC would then lose $7,500 (.1x 75,000) and an additional $16,500 (1.1 x 15,000). So the total loss in this example would be $24,000.

    Dido did a smart thing in announcing that the special covers were already set at a fixed print run and the loss. He created scarcity (even if it is not true); hopefully it "forces" retailers to relook at their orders.
  • NickNick Posts: 284
    mwhitt80 said:




    Dido did a smart thing in announcing that the special covers were already set at a fixed print run and the loss. He created scarcity (even if it is not true); hopefully it "forces" retailers to relook at their orders.

    This last part was my point, if there is a set print run selling more or less isn't going to matter. They said they based the print run on what was ordered in normal months, so it's not like they are producing 5x the average month, this is just the average book volume. To me it seems no different than a company spending $10,000 for promotional materials to give away, they are taking a fixed loss but are hoping to gain some exposure from it. Sure I understand DC could not sell out of the print run, but they are telling us (not that it's true) that it's normal volumes. We'll see what eBay has them for a week after they come out to see if people really want them. I know those die cut covers on Batman sure were hot, so who knows.
  • Chuck_MelvilleChuck_Melville Posts: 3,003
    Hmm. You know, that would almost make it worth getting a couple of copies of those 3D covers, just to dump them on eBay to make a small profit...
  • WetRatsWetRats Posts: 6,314

    Hmm. You know, that would almost make it worth getting a couple of copies of those 3D covers, just to dump them on eBay to make a small profit...

    Don't encourage them!
  • mwhitt80mwhitt80 Posts: 4,637
    Nick said:


    This last part was my point, if there is a set print run selling more or less isn't going to matter. They said they based the print run on what was ordered in normal months, so it's not like they are producing 5x the average month, this is just the average book volume. To me it seems no different than a company spending $10,000 for promotional materials to give away, they are taking a fixed loss but are hoping to gain some exposure from it.

    The big difference between this and using money on promotional material is that DC is losing an entire month of comic sales. Now I assume that this is closer to breakeven than really losing money, but dang.
    If this doesn't re-energize DC then someone(s)'s head needs to be on the chopping block coughcoughBobHarrascoughcough. Heads are going to roll after this one boys, heads are going to roll.
  • luke52luke52 Posts: 1,392
    mwhitt80 said:

    Nick said:


    This last part was my point, if there is a set print run selling more or less isn't going to matter. They said they based the print run on what was ordered in normal months, so it's not like they are producing 5x the average month, this is just the average book volume. To me it seems no different than a company spending $10,000 for promotional materials to give away, they are taking a fixed loss but are hoping to gain some exposure from it.

    The big difference between this and using money on promotional material is that DC is losing an entire month of comic sales. Now I assume that this is closer to breakeven than really losing money, but dang.
    If this doesn't re-energize DC then someone(s)'s head needs to be on the chopping block coughcoughBobHarrascoughcough. Heads are going to roll after this one boys, heads are going to roll.
    So lets say heads will roll. What do you want to happen at DC after said head rolling??
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