[Edit: In fact, Warlock was specifically created with Sienkiewicz’s new style in mind.]
That I don't doubt. The Demon Bear story seemed like a declaration of intent on his part, I always wondered if editorial (Weezie?) set up the situation for him to really show off his new direction.
His editor was Ann Nocenti, and she (and Chris Claremont) encouraged him to go wild.
Looking at Fathom Events for November. They have some fun selections. For you Rush fans there is a concert film on Thursday the 3rd.
Nov 6&9 Dusk Til Dawn 20th Anniversary Showing w/Robert Rodriguez Q&A
Nov 13&16 Space Jam 20th Anniversary
Nov 14 Dr. Who Power of the Daleks the lost six part story that includes the transition between the first and second Doctor @Pants might be interested.
Nov 15 A rebroadcast of Hamlet starring Benedict Cumberbatch
Nov 27&30 Breakfast at Tiffany's for date night.
So it's a good month to track down your local theater that participates in the Fathom Events.
Fun things to do. Kitten training. One kitten (preferred gray and white named peanutbutter by a two year old) One Walmart cat toy for in close combat training. One Disney princess reel/rod combo (with fake rubber fish) to practice distance (end of the hall) seek and destroy missions. One Labrador retriever for wondering what in the heck is going on and sneak tail attacks.
Not-So-Classy Response: Milo Manara presenting Frank Cho with a lovingly-rendered painting of Spider-Woman's vulva.
As unclassy as it was, I'm on Manara and Cho's side on this one. All this ado over hiring two artists who are well-known for their depiction of the female form (and frankly I give Cho props because his women at least look like they know their way around a sandwich), and then hand-wringing and backsliding because they did what they're well-known for. It was a nice flip of the finger to the industry's hypocrisy at large.
If you do not like the artist, do not support the artist. If you do not like the artist's work on a book, do not buy the book. Do not spoil the enjoyment others may get from their work just because you do not.
Classy Response: J. Scott Campbell's new illustration of Riri Williams.
Not-So-Classy Response: Milo Manara presenting Frank Cho with a lovingly-rendered painting of Spider-Woman's vulva.
Campbell’s new illustration is so much better than the cover he drew. It’s not just a pose; she’s actually doing something. I’ve never been a big fan of “pose” covers. Give me some action, or some humor, or at least some kind of interaction that tells me something about the characters involved.
As for Manara/Cho, you won’t be seeing anymore “Outrage!” covers from Frank. But all that stuff started because of poor editorial decision making and management. Hire the right artist for the right job, and make it clear to the artist what will be and won't be acceptable, and if the job they turn in doesn't meet those requirements, make them redo it. Then it won’t be a case of censorship versus offensive imagery, it will simply be a case of doing the job you’ve been hired to do.
Of course, what’s unacceptable for one editor may not be the same for the next editor. Companies like Marvel and DC have to have standards set in place, and they have to be enforced, and most importantly, the companies need to stand behind those standards and their employees who follow them. When those standards meet with disapproval, the companies can then adjust those standards as they see fit, but they shouldn't leave their artists hanging out to dry for an image they accepted.
Not-So-Classy Response: Milo Manara presenting Frank Cho with a lovingly-rendered painting of Spider-Woman's vulva.
As unclassy as it was, I'm on Manara and Cho's side on this one. All this ado over hiring two artists who are well-known for their depiction of the female form (and frankly I give Cho props because his women at least look like they know their way around a sandwich), and then hand-wringing and backsliding because they did what they're well-known for. It was a nice flip of the finger to the industry's hypocrisy at large.
If you do not like the artist, do not support the artist. If you do not like the artist's work on a book, do not buy the book. Do not spoil the enjoyment others may get from their work just because you do not.
When you're trying to promote your superheroines as powerful, don't commission art that portrays they in sexually-submissive poses.
I completely agree that the fault lies with the editors and publishers. Commissioning those Manara covers was idiotic.
While I found Cho's "Outrage" campaign mostly amusing, I found his embracing of the "anti-SJW" crowd repellent.
Campbell’s new illustration is so much better than the cover he drew. It’s not just a pose; she’s actually doing something. I’ve never been a big fan of “pose” covers. Give me some action, or some humor, or at least some kind of interaction that tells me something about the characters involved.
When you're trying to promote your superheroines as powerful, don't commission art that portrays they in sexually-submissive poses.
I completely agree that the fault lies with the editors and publishers. Commissioning those Manara covers was idiotic.
While I found Cho's "Outrage" campaign mostly amusing, I found his embracing of the "anti-SJW" crowd repellent.
I know the Manara cover was a variant and limited in number. Were the Cho covers variants as well or were they they main cover for the title? To me that's another sticking point. If these covers weren't going to be readily available on the stands or perhaps so limited in number as to be nigh-unobtainable, I'm really surprised neither company stood by them.
I do agree anyone who commissions Manara and doesn't think they're getting something sexy back is delusional. The man could make ROM sexy. :)
I know the Manara cover was a variant and limited in number. Were the Cho covers variants as well or were they they main cover for the title? To me that's another sticking point. If these covers weren't going to be readily available on the stands or perhaps so limited in number as to be nigh-unobtainable, I'm really surprised neither company stood by them.
If you're speaking of the “Outrage!” covers, those were one-off commissions done on blank sketch cover variants. When I speak of the companies standing behind the artwork they publish and the artists who make it, I'm speaking in general terms, though it could certainly be applied to Frank’s Wonder Woman covers.
The Wonder Woman covers really have me confused. Especially since it sounds like it was the writer, not editorial, who made the fuss and had Cho removed. Also, is this a gratuitous image of Wonder Woman? People are cool with her being in a skirt but get upset at the very real likelihood that what's underneath would show while in action?
The Wonder Woman covers really have me confused. Especially since it sounds like it was the writer, not editorial, who made the fuss and had Cho removed. Also, is this a gratuitous image of Wonder Woman? People are cool with her being in a skirt but get upset at the very real likelihood that what's underneath would show while in action?
Definitely not a "pose" cover. Hard to understand why the "SJW" faithful got so upset.
The Wonder Woman covers really have me confused. Especially since it sounds like it was the writer, not editorial, who made the fuss and had Cho removed. Also, is this a gratuitous image of Wonder Woman? People are cool with her being in a skirt but get upset at the very real likelihood that what's underneath would show while in action?
Definitely not a "pose" cover. Hard to understand why the "SJW" faithful got so upset.
My own guess is that Rucka has a problem with Cho in general and looked for any reason to get him off the book.
I know the Manara cover was a variant and limited in number. Were the Cho covers variants as well or were they they main cover for the title? To me that's another sticking point. If these covers weren't going to be readily available on the stands or perhaps so limited in number as to be nigh-unobtainable, I'm really surprised neither company stood by them.
Variant, schmariant. They were official products and they were off-message for the characters.
My own guess is that Rucka has a problem with Cho in general and looked for any reason to get him off the book.
I'd say Mr. Rucka, having been screwed by DC so many times, made sure he had as much creative control over his run as possible. If Mr. Cho's work was contrary to his vision for the book, and he had negotiated for veto power, then all power to him for using it when the "no cheesecake" agreement was violated. Writers can demand creative freedom, too.
My own guess is that Rucka has a problem with Cho in general and looked for any reason to get him off the book.
I'd say Mr. Rucka, having been screwed by DC so many times, made sure he had as much creative control over his run as possible. If Mr. Cho's work was contrary to his vision for the book, and he had negotiated for veto power, then all power to him for using it when the "no cheesecake" agreement was violated. Writers can demand creative freedom, too.
Yeah, I heard an interview(prob word balloon) where he said he told DC exactly what he wanted or he wasn't going to write Wonder Woman.
The Cubs appear to be on their way to their first World Series win since 1908. Also, next Tuesday there's a strong possibility this country is going to elect it's first female President. So has anyone checked on the temperature in hell lately
The Wonder Woman covers really have me confused. Especially since it sounds like it was the writer, not editorial, who made the fuss and had Cho removed.
The problem was a lack of communication. Rucka had been given power of cover approval. Frank was not told Rucka had cover approval, nor what Rucka was/wasn't looking for in the covers [Edit: though I'm sure he was given some basic parameters]. The editor approved Frank’s cover sketch, Frank drew the piece, then Rucka rejected the finished cover. That’s not Frank’s fault, and it’s not Rucka’s fault, that’s on the editor for not communicating with the talent effectively.
All that said, it should have been handled behind closed doors. We should never have heard about it. Instead, Frank, being understandably angry, made the mistake of going public with it instead of working with editorial and Rucka to come to a workable agreement. Frank made the fuss, but if the editor had been doing his job properly, the problem wouldn’t have occurred in the first place.
The Cubs appear to be on their way to their first World Series win since 1908. Also, next Tuesday there's a strong possibility this country is going to elect it's first female President. So has anyone checked on the temperature in hell lately
The Wonder Woman covers really have me confused. Especially since it sounds like it was the writer, not editorial, who made the fuss and had Cho removed.
The problem was a lack of communication. Rucka had been given power of cover approval. Frank was not told Rucka had cover approval, nor what Rucka was/wasn't looking for in the covers. The editor approved Frank’s cover sketch, Frank drew the piece, then Rucka rejected the finished cover. That’s not Frank’s fault, and it’s not Rucka’s fault, that’s on the editor not communicating with the talent effectively.
All that said, it should have been handled behind closed doors. We should never have heard about it. Instead, Frank, being understandably angry, made the mistake of going public with it instead of working with editorial and Rucka to come to a workable agreement. Frank made the fuss, but if the editor had been doing his job properly, the problem wouldn’t have occurred in the first place.
The Cubs appear to be on their way to their first World Series win since 1908. Also, next Tuesday there's a strong possibility this country is going to elect it's first female President. So has anyone checked on the temperature in hell lately
It's now 5-3 as I type this...not over yet.
That usually happens when I type something like that
I think the cover is pretty boss. So is it the hip showing, or the panty line actually showing that's presumed to be off-message? Not sure how this is "cheesecake."
EDIT: oh, never mind. I get the impression that Mr. Rucka had a cannon retcon to tell and Cho's style wasn't exactly suited for the vision. Eric's right. This should've been fixed via editorial.
The Cubs appear to be on their way to their first World Series win since 1908. Also, next Tuesday there's a strong possibility this country is going to elect it's first female President. So has anyone checked on the temperature in hell lately
It's now 5-3 as I type this...not over yet.
That usually happens when I type something like that
Yup, and about 30 seconds later the Cubs made it 6-3...
Either team winning would be great as they've both waited a very long time for a WS win.
Definitely not a "pose" cover. Hard to understand why the "SJW" faithful got so upset.
I would argue that it’s a borderline pose cover. She is at least doing something, but there is little context provided. And let’s keep in mind that the full image has only been seen in black-and-white—the color version was cropped. In black-and-white, it’s a lot easier for the part of the costume in question to “read” as panties, rather than as part of the suit. If Wonder Woman were still wearing the original costume, people would automatically read it as being part of the costume, but ironically, the skirt which was added to tone down the sexuality of the costume actually makes the hidden part of the costume taboo. The skirt has become the costume, and the part of the one-piece underneath the skirt has become “underwear” in a sense. So while it doesn’t really bother me, I can certainly understand why so many people got upset by it, especially given the tone the book is going for, and the audience Rucka is trying to reach.
But for all the pure cheesecake (which often pushes the boundaries of cheesecake) Frank draws in his commissions, when it comes to actual covers, Frank almost always tries to have something interesting happening. He rarely does full-on pose covers. You can’t really fault him on that front.
The Cubs appear to be on their way to their first World Series win since 1908. Also, next Tuesday there's a strong possibility this country is going to elect it's first female President. So has anyone checked on the temperature in hell lately
It's now 5-3 as I type this...not over yet.
That usually happens when I type something like that
Yup, and about 30 seconds later the Cubs made it 6-3...
Either team winning would be great as they've both waited a very long time for a WS win.
I’m pulling for Cleveland. Not because I particularly like Cleveland or dislike the Cubs, but because I like the mythic/superstitious aspect of baseball. The Red Sox have gotten rid of their “curse”. The Cubs have the only great “curse” left, and I want them to always be the Loveable Losers.
Comments
For you Rush fans there is a concert film on Thursday the 3rd.
Nov 6&9 Dusk Til Dawn 20th Anniversary Showing w/Robert Rodriguez Q&A
Nov 13&16 Space Jam 20th Anniversary
Nov 14 Dr. Who Power of the Daleks the lost six part story that includes the transition between the first and second Doctor @Pants might be interested.
Nov 15 A rebroadcast of Hamlet starring Benedict Cumberbatch
Nov 27&30 Breakfast at Tiffany's for date night.
So it's a good month to track down your local theater that participates in the Fathom Events.
One kitten (preferred gray and white named peanutbutter by a two year old)
One Walmart cat toy for in close combat training.
One Disney princess reel/rod combo (with fake rubber fish) to practice distance (end of the hall) seek and destroy missions.
One Labrador retriever for wondering what in the heck is going on and sneak tail attacks.
Not-So-Classy Response: Milo Manara presenting Frank Cho with a lovingly-rendered painting of Spider-Woman's vulva.
If you do not like the artist, do not support the artist.
If you do not like the artist's work on a book, do not buy the book.
Do not spoil the enjoyment others may get from their work just because you do not.
As for Manara/Cho, you won’t be seeing anymore “Outrage!” covers from Frank. But all that stuff started because of poor editorial decision making and management. Hire the right artist for the right job, and make it clear to the artist what will be and won't be acceptable, and if the job they turn in doesn't meet those requirements, make them redo it. Then it won’t be a case of censorship versus offensive imagery, it will simply be a case of doing the job you’ve been hired to do.
Of course, what’s unacceptable for one editor may not be the same for the next editor. Companies like Marvel and DC have to have standards set in place, and they have to be enforced, and most importantly, the companies need to stand behind those standards and their employees who follow them. When those standards meet with disapproval, the companies can then adjust those standards as they see fit, but they shouldn't leave their artists hanging out to dry for an image they accepted.
I completely agree that the fault lies with the editors and publishers. Commissioning those Manara covers was idiotic.
While I found Cho's "Outrage" campaign mostly amusing, I found his embracing of the "anti-SJW" crowd repellent.
I do agree anyone who commissions Manara and doesn't think they're getting something sexy back is delusional. The man could make ROM sexy. :)
All that said, it should have been handled behind closed doors. We should never have heard about it. Instead, Frank, being understandably angry, made the mistake of going public with it instead of working with editorial and Rucka to come to a workable agreement. Frank made the fuss, but if the editor had been doing his job properly, the problem wouldn’t have occurred in the first place.
That usually happens when I type something like that
EDIT: oh, never mind. I get the impression that Mr. Rucka had a cannon retcon to tell and Cho's style wasn't exactly suited for the vision. Eric's right. This should've been fixed via editorial.
http://www.themarysue.com/rucka-queer-wonder-woman/
Either team winning would be great as they've both waited a very long time for a WS win.
But for all the pure cheesecake (which often pushes the boundaries of cheesecake) Frank draws in his commissions, when it comes to actual covers, Frank almost always tries to have something interesting happening. He rarely does full-on pose covers. You can’t really fault him on that front.