The Walking Dead TV Show (Spoilers)

DoctorDoom

I'm shocked I haven't seen too much discussion about it from this season.

(If it's on the podcasts and those threads, I'm waaaaay behind)

Last night's episode was both great and weird to me. I figured out a few thing that were going to happen, but my stomach was still queasy, and things still felt intense.

Certain deaths still shocked me even though I figured they were due, and people who weren't killed shocked me too.

Krescan

At first I was upset at how quickly they went from him at his camp to Rick's camp, but then I realized that it was close enough to the comics that I would have figured out what was about to happen ahead of time.

It surprised me while giving a memorable scene from the comic book at the same time.

Hope that was vague enough and can't wait till February

The_JP

We need to put a spoilers tag on this thread!

During the walking dead after show, Kirkman said that sneak peak scene for the next half of season (Carl leading two walkers away from a house and down a street) is from the comics ... I can't remember that, what happens?

Thanks,
JP

Peter

While the major events certainly felt foreshadowed, it still hit hard in the gut like DDoom said. Even when I knew it was coming, it escalated to a point that had me very emotional. Especially when the tide was turning - it was like a release of emotions and cheering on the main group, even through the tragedies. This episode definitely worked me over. So much that I watched Talking Dead for the first time and even watched the encore of the ep afterwards.

Of the eight episodes in this season, I've only really enjoyed about 2 before this ep. So it made up for a decent but a bit aimless season overall.

ajcasperite

I don't read the comic but I am a huge fan of the show and saw this episode. There came a point where I knew what was going to happen but I kept shouting in defiance. Could not believe it. Some things I felt you knew were going to happen but there were still some great shocks. As far as the end, here we go again. A large part of the episode my wife kept saying how dirty and bad the prison crew looked compared to the Others who all appeared clean and dressed. Women, always worried about what others are wearing. Jeez.

fredzilla

They took out my favorite character, especially after such a break out episode (no, I'm not talking about the Guv'nuh). I'm loving this season (as I have the others). I'm okay with the slow burn because we end up getting a couple of episodes like this. That's what the comic is like: talktalktalktalkZOMBIES!*whew*talktalktalk... Does that mean it makes for good TV? Well, that's for you to decide. Either way, this was a difficult episode to watch, but I still enjoyed it.

batlaw

Been enjoying but not blown away this season. No real surprises and some kindve dud eps IMO. Seems the budget has taken a hit and the writing is slipping a bit too I feel. Still feels like theyre trting to throw too much into it and loosing focus on the more sumpler and smaller more emotional stuff. Some good stuff though still. Hate seeing some characters go and can't wait to get rid of some others.

Krescan

The_JP said:

During the walking dead after show, Kirkman said that sneak peak scene for the next half of season (Carl leading two walkers away from a house and down a street) is from the comics ... I can't remember that, what happens?

FAIRLY VAGUE COMIC SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!





There's a few issues, (probably 5?) where Rick and Carl are on their own, it's where the telephone stuff started in the comics, and Carl has to take care of Rick for a change.

chrisw

Peter said:

Of the eight episodes in this season, I've only really enjoyed about 2 before this ep. So it made up for a decent but a bit aimless season overall.

I feel like the Governor's storyline really should have been wrapped up last season. Granted, we would have lost some good stuff, like the Governor's new relationships and the fallout from that, but some of this season felt like nothing more than an extension of last season. We spent all of season three building up to the Governor's attack on the prison, and now we're spending the first half of season four... building up to the Governor's attack on the prison.

fredzilla

chrisw said:

We spent all of season three building up to the Governor's attack on the prison, and now we're spending the first half of season four... building up to the Governor's attack on the prison.

I think it's all been taken care of now though. ;)

luckymustard

Krescan said:

The_JP said:

During the walking dead after show, Kirkman said that sneak peak scene for the next half of season (Carl leading two walkers away from a house and down a street) is from the comics ... I can't remember that, what happens?

FAIRLY VAGUE COMIC SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!





There's a few issues, (probably 5?) where Rick and Carl are on their own, it's where the telephone stuff started in the comics, and Carl has to take care of Rick for a change.

That's right. It's after the compendium, which ends with issue 48, with a near exact last panel that is very similar to almost last scene of this last episode. So issues 49 or 50 (I didn't do a page count, so I'm not sure which of those two issues) contain the sneak peek scene. For people trying to find it, those issues are obviously in the second compendium, but TPB-wise, it's volume 9.

Carl is older looking now in the show than he looks in the comic, so I hope they don't have Chandler Riggs acting too young trying to match the comic.

Krescan

luckymustard said:

Krescan said:

The_JP said:

During the walking dead after show, Kirkman said that sneak peak scene for the next half of season (Carl leading two walkers away from a house and down a street) is from the comics ... I can't remember that, what happens?

FAIRLY VAGUE COMIC SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!





There's a few issues, (probably 5?) where Rick and Carl are on their own, it's where the telephone stuff started in the comics, and Carl has to take care of Rick for a change.

That's right. It's after the compendium, which ends with issue 48, with a near exact last panel that is very similar to almost last scene of this last episode. So issues 49 or 50 (I didn't do a page count, so I'm not sure which of those two issues) contain the sneak peek scene. For people trying to find it, those issues are obviously in the second compendium, but TPB-wise, it's volume 9.

Carl is older looking now in the show than he looks in the comic, so I hope they don't have Chandler Riggs acting too young trying to match the comic.

Yeah it's kind of where he learns he can handle stuff on his own but TV Carl is already there and then some

The_JP

Krescan said:

The_JP said:

During the walking dead after show, Kirkman said that sneak peak scene for the next half of season (Carl leading two walkers away from a house and down a street) is from the comics ... I can't remember that, what happens?

FAIRLY VAGUE COMIC SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!


There's a few issues, (probably 5?) where Rick and Carl are on their own, it's where the telephone stuff started in the comics, and Carl has to take care of Rick for a change.

Thanks, I remember that from the comics ... wonder what will happen now that Rick already went through the telephone ringing thing at the prison ... I hope he doesn't break down again ... but losing everyone and the baby may cause that.

JP

The_JP

Peter said:

While the major events certainly felt foreshadowed, it still hit hard in the gut like DDoom said. Even when I knew it was coming, it escalated to a point that had me very emotional. Especially when the tide was turning - it was like a release of emotions and cheering on the main group, even through the tragedies. This episode definitely worked me over. So much that I watched Talking Dead for the first time and even watched the encore of the ep afterwards.

Of the eight episodes in this season, I've only really enjoyed about 2 before this ep. So it made up for a decent but a bit aimless season overall.

Hi Peter :)

JP

SolitaireRose

I LOVED the structure of this season. We jumped ahead to when the prison was a functioning society, Rick had become a farmer, Carl was a little boy and they had carved out a life for themselves...then, things fell apart. Rick had to jump back into a leadership position, Carl grew up and the people of the prison were taken apart by a new kind of plague.

Then, we switch over and see WHY the Governor is a version of Rick through a dark mirror. He also is broken down, and rebuilds himself, taking over a working colony and eventually leaving behind the father and family man he toyed with being to be the bastard we all knew. It gave him a LOT more depth, made the confrontation between the two have so much more emotional resonance, and and made what would have been just a big action piece last year, a gut wrenching emotional holocaust.

Now, everyone is scattered, we don't know who all of the dead are, Rick has been broken again, and we still don't know who was feeding rats at the fence...

The last 15 minutes left me emotionally raw and really hit it out of the park. I know some people are complaining about this season (and they complained about last season, and the one before and....), but to my mind, the show is moving from strength to strength and I am excited to see where they go next year.

And Talking Dead was SO good as well. Kirkman had next to nothing to do, but I coudl have listened to the actors and Chris for another hour or two...

jaydee74

The mid-season finale was rough. It was amazing but rough.

Krescan

SolitaireRose said:

The last 15 minutes left me emotionally raw and really hit it out of the park. I know some people are complaining about this season (and they complained about last season, and the one before and....), but to my mind, the show is moving from strength to strength and I am excited to see where they go next year.

Speaking of the rats, what was that that Tyrese found? Was it a rat duct taped to the wall that had been eaten? I was thinking that maybe that was how they got the disease into the prison maybe? Not sure, hope that wasn't a loose end that they just leave hanging though.

David_D

Krescan said:

SolitaireRose said:

The last 15 minutes left me emotionally raw and really hit it out of the park. I know some people are complaining about this season (and they complained about last season, and the one before and....), but to my mind, the show is moving from strength to strength and I am excited to see where they go next year.

Speaking of the rats, what was that that Tyrese found? Was it a rat duct taped to the wall that had been eaten? I was thinking that maybe that was how they got the disease into the prison maybe? Not sure, hope that wasn't a loose end that they just leave hanging though.

I think it was a rat that had been meticulously dissected. Sort of a serial killer/ animal cruelty sort of thing.

chrisw

I'd initially thought it was the Governor placing rats by the fence to attract Walkers. Didn't they have a shot of him earlier in the season, standing outside the prison, in the dark?

But after finding that one inside the prison, I guess that's not the case.

If so, how does that plot get resolved? There's no more prison to sabotage. I guess they could continue to make trouble, whoever they are? It still seems like an odd time to bring up that plot, but by re-establishing it last episode, they clearly want us to keep it in mind.

Krescan

I just remembered a storyline from the comics, and if it's the sameish Carl will resolve it later.

Carl handles a lot of stuff.

jaydee74

Carl "The Handler" Grimes.

David_D

I finally caught up on this last night (actually, I watched the finale on my phone, while trapped in a subway under the East River late at night with no explanation from the conductor why we were sitting there for so long-- it felt strangely appropriate).

I loved the beginning of the season-- the flu plotline, all the stuff with Carol (who I have felt for a long time is the best actor on the show, especially once Jeffrey DeMunn was gone). I was bummed by the two all-Governor episodes. To me, that felt like a punt. Like an easy out. A way to give the rest of the cast a hiatus from shooting, and to basically take a break from having a bunch of balls up in the air to instead narrow to one established character who has essentially rebooted and have him meet a bunch of new people. It is like a switch to the "Tailies" on Lost. And- given that they farm scripts out to freelancers rather than run a staffed writers' room- I suppose it made for an easier freelance assignment. But to me it was wasted time. I don't have any more I need to know about the Governor. I have no pathos for him, despite Morrisey being a very talented and compelling actor. To me, the Governor has always been from Villain Land and I have never really believed him. I have no investment in how he feels or his journey. I find him much less interesting than characters who have a lot more internal good that they have to struggle against. The Governor is so long-lost and compromised when we meet him, that to even try to watch him attempt redemption feels false and perfunctory. Manufactured. To me, it is interesting to watch Macbeth lose himself to become king, and then not be able to live with it. To meet a Macbeth that did terrible things before you met him, and has come to succeed at living with it, albeit with a few vivid quirks and hang-ups, is not interesting to me. So to watch that latter Macbeth lose his crown and then need to get it back is less interesting than when his soul was initially sold to get the crown. You know what I mean?

In the comics, too. I have always found the character to be a mustache-twirling, over-the-top, indulgent baddie in a world that doesn't need such characters. A supervillain in a world that otherwise has human-sized humans in it, you know what I mean? (Perhaps with the exception of Michonne, who is similarly a bit indulgent and larger-than-life. In the Snake-Eyes vein.) For me, in the current comics (vague, no spoilers here) Kirkman has returned to some indulgent tendencies by introducing another larger-than-life villain and giving his posturing and preening waaaay too much screen time. But I digress. Back to the TV--

Anyway, long story short, the finale was pretty strong (even if it asked us to believe, like before, that a group of people would follow the Governor into bad decisions-- and KEEP following him, even though we are given little reason to believe they would. ESPECIALLY if they are people that have lived this long). But, I guess you have to suspend some disbelief.

I give them credit for the balls to kill the baby. F**king hell that was grim. As it was in the comics. Maybe actually worse for the fact that they DIDN'T show it. And, even though it is a very dark thing to ask a TV (even a cable drama) audience to stomach, I am also not surprised that they took the risk to not be shackled by the baby, either. Babies, and little kids, are an absolute pain in the ass from a production point of view, and to be avoided. They should all be CGI, if that was not so cost prohibitive. And especially at a time when characters are on the move and you can't always pretend the baby is just off in another room, I can see why they would want to be free of that problem from a production standpoint. Also, it is not like they were really writing for the baby, you know what I mean?

And I am very glad the Governor is finally.... FINALLY... dead. I agree with @ChrisW that he should have been wrapped up last season and it has made this season, at least the first half, feel less distinct.

Looking forward to the back 8. There is still a lot of reason to look forward to good work ahead. And I think there is a lot of potential in the characters being a spread out diaspora again. And I expect, and hope, we will get Carol back.

The_JP

Did David D just Spoilerlize this thread ... nice!!!

JP

fredzilla

David_D said:

And I am very glad the Governor is finally.... FINALLY... dead. I agree with @ChrisW that he should have been wrapped up last season and it has made this season, at least the first half, feel less distinct.

Mostly I agree with you, but if comics and television have taught me anything is that unless you have a body... We didn't see him actually get shot, it was off camera and therefore implied--a huge difference when we're talking about major characters being killed off. They'll show all other kinds of mayhem on the show with main characters (i.e. Hershel) so why not show The Governor? I mean, for all intents and purposes, he's dead, but there's never any definitiveness in comics and television. I think they showed it the way they did for a reason. It gives them a backdoor for possible future episodes. The Governor could have survived the sword. I mean, look at the wound Carl has to deal with in the comic. Sorry to be Negative Nancy. ;;)

I agree too that they should have wrapped it up last season; however, I think they should have wrapped it up the way they did this season. The chaos and turmoil of what happened in Woodbury and what happened to Andrea with the death of the Governor would have cheapened one or even all of the other events.

David_D

fredzilla said:

David_D said:

And I am very glad the Governor is finally.... FINALLY... dead. I agree with @ChrisW that he should have been wrapped up last season and it has made this season, at least the first half, feel less distinct.

Mostly I agree with you, but if comics and television have taught me anything is that unless you have a body... We didn't see him actually get shot, it was off camera and therefore implied--a huge difference when we're talking about major characters being killed off. They'll show all other kinds of mayhem on the show with main characters (i.e. Hershel) so why not show The Governor? I mean, for all intents and purposes, he's dead, but there's never any definitiveness in comics and television. I think they showed it the way they did for a reason. It gives them a backdoor for possible future episodes. The Governor could have survived the sword. I mean, look at the wound Carl has to deal with in the comic. Sorry to be Negative Nancy. ;;)

I agree too that they should have wrapped it up last season; however, I think they should have wrapped it up the way they did this season. The chaos and turmoil of what happened in Woodbury and what happened to Andrea with the death of the Governor would have cheapened one or even all of the other events.

I also worried when I saw the sword wound that he would still survive. But remember, we also saw his grilfriend stand over to him, point a gun at his head (in the POV shot) and fire. I agree that we didn't see the body and that often leaves an out. But I think they would embarass themselves to let him survive that shot. I feel like, in a moment of TV/film convention language, they are saying he is (finally!) dead.

David_D

The_JP said:

Did David D just Spoilerlize this thread ... nice!!!

JP

Yes- put the tag on it the other day as per your suggestion, so I figured we could have at it!

random73

I may be in the minority here I can't tell. This has been my favorite season so far. I felt like I haven't had to deal with the lag I usually get during the first half of the season. Also, I've given up on trying to tie the show to the comic. At this point I felt they were just cutting things from whole cloth and oddly, that allowed me to have more enjoyment because I wasn't as frustrated when things didn't happen the way they were "supposed" to. Then the mid season finale surprised me with a couple panels straight (or almost straight) out of the comic. I was happily surprised with the way that worked.

As far as the two episodes with the governor... I didn't know where they were going there and I guess based on the end result the answer was: nowhere. If that had turned into a Baron Zemo in Thunderbolts sort of deal and he and Rick had both moved into the prison...I might have liked that more because I would certainly have had No Idea what the plot would be going from there.

I wonder what Carol is up to...

I thought the rat feeder was the little girl that sympathized with the zombies. I expect her to get comic Carol's end.

fredzilla

David_D said:

I also worried when I saw the sword wound that he would still survive. But remember, we also saw his grilfriend stand over to him, point a gun at his head (in the POV shot) and fire. I agree that we didn't see the body and that often leaves an out. But I think they would embarass themselves to let him survive that shot. I feel like, in a moment of TV/film convention language, they are saying he is (finally!) dead.

And I would agree, but... the image cut right at the shot sound. It was definitely implied, but Rule #52 of Pop Culture Media clearly states that a character is not dead unless that death is witnessed in panel or on screen (implied death is simply that: implied). Also, Amendment A to Rule #52 describes the limitations of such a death: timey-wimey fluctuations, demonic or alien possession/body double, etc. You're probably right, but I think the writers (for better or worse) at least have something in their back pocket if they ever need it. My initial thought was, we didn't actually see her shoot him. He could have had a gun nearby and shot her before she could get a shot off.

BTW - I've been watching a lot of the supplemental Dr. Who stuff from the 50th anniversary and David Morrissey (the actor playing the Governor) was thought to be the 11th Doctor before Matt Smith was named. He appeared alongside David Tennant in the episode "The Next Doctor".

luckymustard

We also didn't see Lori's death a season ago, nor Judith's in this last episode. Someone above seemed awfully sure Judith is dead, but I'm not so sure.

jaydee74

See, that is my thought as well. We see Rick and Carl looking for Judith and all we get is the empty car seat. Whose to say Judith wasn't on the bus? I think we're going to see a happy reunion. What? It can happen, right? The show doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. Right? Anyone?

Krescan

jaydee74 said:

See, that is my thought as well. We see Rick and Carl looking for Judith and all we get is the empty car seat. Whose to say Judith wasn't on the bus? I think we're going to see a happy reunion. What? It can happen, right? The show doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. Right? Anyone?

To paraphrase Robert Kirkman (unless I accidentally got it word for word)

"sure was a lot of blood in that car seat"