See, that is my thought as well. We see Rick and Carl looking for Judith and all we get is the empty car seat. Whose to say Judith wasn't on the bus? I think we're going to see a happy reunion. What? It can happen, right? The show doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. Right? Anyone?
To paraphrase Robert Kirkman (unless I accidentally got it word for word)
"sure was a lot of blood in that car seat"
Yeah, so? That doesn't mean it was Judith's blood. Just a lot of blood...
I also worried when I saw the sword wound that he would still survive. But remember, we also saw his grilfriend stand over to him, point a gun at his head (in the POV shot) and fire. I agree that we didn't see the body and that often leaves an out. But I think they would embarass themselves to let him survive that shot. I feel like, in a moment of TV/film convention language, they are saying he is (finally!) dead.
And I would agree, but... the image cut right at the shot sound. It was definitely implied, but Rule #52 of Pop Culture Media clearly states that a character is not dead unless that death is witnessed in panel or on screen (implied death is simply that: implied). Also, Amendment A to Rule #52 describes the limitations of such a death: timey-wimey fluctuations, demonic or alien possession/body double, etc. You're probably right, but I think the writers (for better or worse) at least have something in their back pocket if they ever need it. My initial thought was, we didn't actually see her shoot him. He could have had a gun nearby and shot her before she could get a shot off.
BTW - I've been watching a lot of the supplemental Dr. Who stuff from the 50th anniversary and David Morrissey (the actor playing the Governor) was thought to be the 11th Doctor before Matt Smith was named. He appeared alongside David Tennant in the episode "The Next Doctor".
You are right- there is a lot of pop culture precedent for having a back door out of what looks like a death, especially with no objective look at the body.
But, so far on this show, dead has meant dead. This show hasn't resorted to that sort of misdirection. Cliffhangers and near deaths? Of course. But I think part of what viewers respect about this show is that when they pull the trigger on a character, to use a pun, they really do it. And I think they would lose some credibility with the audience if they violated that with a trick. If someone woke up and found the Governor coming out of the shower in the morning. I think that would be weak.
See, that is my thought as well. We see Rick and Carl looking for Judith and all we get is the empty car seat. Whose to say Judith wasn't on the bus? I think we're going to see a happy reunion. What? It can happen, right? The show doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. Right? Anyone?
Also possible, but I think that also would set a bad precedent. As happy as we might be for the characters, we might also feel too manipulated by being asked to digest something that grim, and then find it taken back. I think that would also be a poor choice- the sort of thing that more timid dramas do. But not what this show does.
In regard to the rats: I believe it is the little girl whose sister said "she's not weak, just messed up". She was naming the walkers outside the fence. I also think she killed Tyreece's girlfriend and the other guy. Carol found her, dragged the bodies and burned them. Then Carol took the fall so the girl wasn't ousted (or worse).
In regard to the rats: I believe it is the little girl whose sister said "she's not weak, just messed up". She was naming the walkers outside the fence. I also think she killed Tyreece's girlfriend and the other guy. Carol found her, dragged the bodies and burned them. Then Carol took the fall so the girl wasn't ousted (or worse).
I'd say you're right on the first and wrong on the second, the little girl liked all people, walker or living and wouldn't want to stop anyone, plus they showed Rick doing the police work to figure out what happened.
And once the little girl was locked up with all the sick people she didn't try to kill anybody else.
I thought the rat feeder was the little girl that sympathized with the zombies. I expect her to get comic Carol's end.
I think that is a solid guess. I took all the rat feeding, and what I thought was a dissection, to be hints of a serial killer, but that might have been because I was expecting them to borrow plots from the comics. I took it that the rats were sabotage to attract zombies, but it never occurred to me it might be someone trying to help them. That could work, too.
In regard to the rats: I believe it is the little girl whose sister said "she's not weak, just messed up". She was naming the walkers outside the fence. I also think she killed Tyreece's girlfriend and the other guy. Carol found her, dragged the bodies and burned them. Then Carol took the fall so the girl wasn't ousted (or worse).
Oooh! I like the idea of carol taking the heat for the kid but I gotta say a child serial killer is a little dark for TV. Of course there is a comic precident for the psycho kid. Carl takes the girl out and carol comes back into the fold. Whew! Neat theory but rough!
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
Oh I totally understand and would never expect them (or want them) to show her death on screen. But I expect them to be much more creative in how they portrayed it. There are a number of ideas that would've / could've been much more dramatic interesting and emotional as the death deserves. If they choose to kill her off like this, at least maximize it by actually showing the character once before her death. As is, her death was little more than just implied. Which would be fine assuming something comes of it. If not then they simply did a really surprisingly poor job.
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
Oh I totally understand and would never expect them (or want them) to show her death on screen. But I expect them to be much more creative in how they portrayed it. There are a number of ideas that would've / could've been much more dramatic interesting and emotional as the death deserves. If they choose to kill her off like this, at least maximize it by actually showing the character once before her death. As is, her death was little more than just implied. Which would be fine assuming something comes of it. If not then they simply did a really surprisingly poor job.
To be fair, they did show her, though briefly. The two girls (later the ones that shoot people to save Tyrese) are shown carrying the car seat together with her in it.
I expect they will later tell someone what specifically happened (e.g. It was a stray bullet) to Judy so that we as an audience are sure she is dead by their witness, without it being shown.
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
Oh I totally understand and would never expect them (or want them) to show her death on screen. But I expect them to be much more creative in how they portrayed it. There are a number of ideas that would've / could've been much more dramatic interesting and emotional as the death deserves. If they choose to kill her off like this, at least maximize it by actually showing the character once before her death. As is, her death was little more than just implied. Which would be fine assuming something comes of it. If not then they simply did a really surprisingly poor job.
To be fair, they did show her, though briefly. The two girls (later the ones that shoot people to save Tyrese) are shown carrying the car seat together with her in it.
I expect they will later tell someone what specifically happened (e.g. It was a stray bullet) to Judy so that we as an audience are sure she is dead by their witness, without it being shown.
I think the car seat just became too cumbersone to carry and they took the kid and left it behind. I don't think she's dead, yet...
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
Oh I totally understand and would never expect them (or want them) to show her death on screen. But I expect them to be much more creative in how they portrayed it. There are a number of ideas that would've / could've been much more dramatic interesting and emotional as the death deserves. If they choose to kill her off like this, at least maximize it by actually showing the character once before her death. As is, her death was little more than just implied. Which would be fine assuming something comes of it. If not then they simply did a really surprisingly poor job.
To be fair, they did show her, though briefly. The two girls (later the ones that shoot people to save Tyrese) are shown carrying the car seat together with her in it.
I expect they will later tell someone what specifically happened (e.g. It was a stray bullet) to Judy so that we as an audience are sure she is dead by their witness, without it being shown.
I think the car seat just became too cumbersone to carry and they took the kid and left it behind. I don't think she's dead, yet...
They do have that out as a possibility. But I think playing such a trick on the audience would set a bad precedent. They have been bolder than that up to now.
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
Oh I totally understand and would never expect them (or want them) to show her death on screen. But I expect them to be much more creative in how they portrayed it. There are a number of ideas that would've / could've been much more dramatic interesting and emotional as the death deserves. If they choose to kill her off like this, at least maximize it by actually showing the character once before her death. As is, her death was little more than just implied. Which would be fine assuming something comes of it. If not then they simply did a really surprisingly poor job.
To be fair, they did show her, though briefly. The two girls (later the ones that shoot people to save Tyrese) are shown carrying the car seat together with her in it.
I expect they will later tell someone what specifically happened (e.g. It was a stray bullet) to Judy so that we as an audience are sure she is dead by their witness, without it being shown.
I think the car seat just became too cumbersone to carry and they took the kid and left it behind. I don't think she's dead, yet...
They do have that out as a possibility. But I think playing such a trick on the audience would set a bad precedent. They have been bolder than that up to now.
I agree they had Rick (Spoilers, I guess) shoot a child in the first 10 minutes of episode one which kinda sets a bold tone but i think this is too unclear. if they are going to kill Judith i expect a legitimate kill. I picture something horrific with baby blood splatter sprinkling Ricks slack jawed face. on a softer note I saw Andrew Lincoln in Love Actually the other day and was stunned by how young and kinda goofy he looked.
I want to think judith is still alive. not just because the obvious, but because it was a weak way to handle it imo. kindve cliche and a bit of a cop out. viewers didnt even get to actually see her in the ep or in eps leading to it that i remember. if they wanted it to have impact she shouldve had some presence. just wasnt powerful enough as it woulda coulda shoulda been imo. plus theyve used the bloody carseat image at least a couple times throughout the series already. plus imagine the ongoing tension and story potential if she were kept areound for a bit more now. ill be really disappointed if that was it for her.
I think she's gone and the way they did it might have been weak I agree but it might also be traumatizing to subject an infant to acting out the scene where she gets eaten by a zombie. Also for her parents that are probably watching right off camera, and heck probably for the zombies that would have to eat her.
Oh I totally understand and would never expect them (or want them) to show her death on screen. But I expect them to be much more creative in how they portrayed it. There are a number of ideas that would've / could've been much more dramatic interesting and emotional as the death deserves. If they choose to kill her off like this, at least maximize it by actually showing the character once before her death. As is, her death was little more than just implied. Which would be fine assuming something comes of it. If not then they simply did a really surprisingly poor job.
To be fair, they did show her, though briefly. The two girls (later the ones that shoot people to save Tyrese) are shown carrying the car seat together with her in it.
I expect they will later tell someone what specifically happened (e.g. It was a stray bullet) to Judy so that we as an audience are sure she is dead by their witness, without it being shown.
I think the car seat just became too cumbersone to carry and they took the kid and left it behind. I don't think she's dead, yet...
They do have that out as a possibility. But I think playing such a trick on the audience would set a bad precedent. They have been bolder than that up to now.
I agree they had Rick (Spoilers, I guess) shoot a child in the first 10 minutes of episode one which kinda sets a bold tone but i think this is too unclear. if they are going to kill Judith i expect a legitimate kill. I picture something horrific with baby blood splatter sprinkling Ricks slack jawed face. on a softer note I saw Andrew Lincoln in Love Actually the other day and was stunned by how young and kinda goofy he looked.
Well, doing this show has probably aged him. That, and I would guess that the hair and makeup people are likely asked to do the opposite of their usual job: make them look tired and terrible.
And I get what you are saying, but I think they showed the right restraint: there is shooting a zombie child, but then there is watching an established baby character get killed. I think they did enough without going overboard.
Clearly it left some doubt with some viewers, but I think they will clear up that doubt.
I don't watch the show but I got in trouble because of it. A few months ago my then 12 year old daughter asked about it and I said sure you can watch one episode. I figured she would watch the first 10-15 minutes and never watch it again. Well she remembered that offer. She watch 2 episodes told my wife she wants to keep watching and my wife of course said no. And my daughter then countered with "But dad said I could!" Ruh ruh! I got an earful and had to tell my daughter not to be mad at her mom and it was my fault. She's at that age where Nick and Disney are too kiddy.
I've recently caught up with all the episodes this season and what a gut wrenching episode last week's was! As a father, it was difficult to watch. So much despair...
It was pretty intense, but, in the world they're in, I didn't see any other option other than telling her to strike out on her own. Somehow that seemed like a fate worse than death.
Reminded me a lot of Of Mice and Men, except I felt for Lenny. I think I knew it was all coming it was just hard to actually see it. It was definitely one of the best episodes so far. The tension and drama is just something that I'll remember for a while. At least Judith is okay...
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But, so far on this show, dead has meant dead. This show hasn't resorted to that sort of misdirection. Cliffhangers and near deaths? Of course. But I think part of what viewers respect about this show is that when they pull the trigger on a character, to use a pun, they really do it. And I think they would lose some credibility with the audience if they violated that with a trick. If someone woke up and found the Governor coming out of the shower in the morning. I think that would be weak.
But, I agree, it is possible.
I also think she killed Tyreece's girlfriend and the other guy. Carol found her, dragged the bodies and burned them. Then Carol took the fall so the girl wasn't ousted (or worse).
And once the little girl was locked up with all the sick people she didn't try to kill anybody else.
The next person showed that scene to said that there's no body. That blood didn't mean she was dead.
And then I saw they were so coy about it on Talking Dead. Like there's another story there.
So... we'll see.
I wonder if we'll get a zombie baby.
I expect they will later tell someone what specifically happened (e.g. It was a stray bullet) to Judy so that we as an audience are sure she is dead by their witness, without it being shown.
And I get what you are saying, but I think they showed the right restraint: there is shooting a zombie child, but then there is watching an established baby character get killed. I think they did enough without going overboard.
Clearly it left some doubt with some viewers, but I think they will clear up that doubt.
So either she's dead like the show intimated, alive, or there's something worse than death in store for Judith.
*shivers*
(Her words, not mine!)
I've recently caught up with all the episodes this season and what a gut wrenching episode last week's was! As a father, it was difficult to watch. So much despair...
(We can talk spoilers here. It says so in the title!)