I think @bralinator is a new kid trying really hard to fit in here. It is hard sometimes to articulate yourself without the benefit of voice tone and facial expressions. I know i had a hard time tying to figure out how to participate on the boards and be a part of the community. Can we just assume for the sake of peace and harmony that nobody here is actually stupid or evil?
can we maybe try to hear what someone is trying to say rather than working on our next wittily snarky response?
I'm inclined to agree with this assessment. As I suggested in an earlier post, @bralinator’s tone sometimes (and in this thread and the Ms. Marvel thread, I would say often) comes across in a way that feels angry and/or defensive. And to be fair, some of the responses to him have can certainly be read that way as well.
So to @bralinator, may I respectfully suggest that you read your posts in a “loud” voice before posting them to hear how they sound? You may be surprised at what you hear. Again, I don’t think you need to apologize for your opinions. I believe it’s the wording and unintended tone of some of your posts that is the real problem here.
And to those who would snark first and ask questions later, can we please try a little harder to be sure of where a poster truly stands before pulling the trigger?
So, after reading the Morrison explaination you didn't go back and read killing joke again and go,"oh yeah! How'd i miss that!?". actually there is another scene that makes the argument stronger i think. that moment in the jail when Bats and Joker are talking about the ultimate need for one to kill the other.
I think @bralinator is a new kid trying really hard to fit in here. It is hard sometimes to articulate yourself without the benefit of voice tone and facial expressions. I know i had a hard time tying to figure out how to participate on the boards and be a part of the community. Can we just assume for the sake of peace and harmony that nobody here is actually stupid or evil?
can we maybe try to hear what someone is trying to say rather than working on our next wittily snarky response?
I'm inclined to agree with this assessment. As I suggested in an earlier post, @bralinator’s tone sometimes (and in this thread and the Ms. Marvel thread, I would say often) comes across in a way that feels angry and/or defensive. And to be fair, some of the responses to him have can certainly be read that way as well.
So to @bralinator, may I respectfully suggest that you read your posts in a “loud” voice before posting them to hear how they sound? You may be surprised at what you hear. Again, I don’t think you need to apologize for your opinions. I believe it’s the wording and unintended tone of some of your posts that is the real problem here.
And to those who would snark first and ask questions later, can we please try a little harder to be sure of where a poster truly stands before pulling the trigger?
There - Earth 2 Connor Hawke is white. Does that even things out now? :P
Now that's just weird. Does that mean that the Connor Hawke on Earth 1 (or whatever we're supposed to call New 52 continuity) is not white? Does the difference between dimensions have to do with skin color as opposed to "different roads traveled" in history?
It's just kind of bizarre. In answer to the question, I would say that NO, yet another pointless race-switch just makes things unnecessarily weirder. Not that I think any of this is a big deal.
It would be funny if the next "Crisis" event had to do with a rampaging multiversal entity that kept changing the races, genders, and sexualities of different characters. I'd suggest calling this entity the Homonitor. And for the Batman tie-in I'd want Grant Morrison to finally write the gay Batman, Robin, and Alfred. Seriously.
There - Earth 2 Connor Hawke is white. Does that even things out now? :P
Now that's just weird. Does that mean that the Connor Hawke on Earth 1 (or whatever we're supposed to call New 52 continuity) is not white? Does the difference between dimensions have to do with skin color as opposed to "different roads traveled" in history?
I don't think there is an Earth-1 Connor Hawke.
The only "legacy" characters are the hard-to-explain Teen Titans, and the damn-near-impossible-to-explain Outsiders.
So to @bralinator, may I respectfully suggest that you read your posts in a “loud” voice before posting them to hear how they sound? You may be surprised at what you hear. Again, I don’t think you need to apologize for your opinions. I believe it’s the wording and unintended tone of some of your posts that is the real problem here.
And to those who would snark first and ask questions later, can we please try a little harder to be sure of where a poster truly stands before pulling the trigger?
Maybe I should try using ALL CAPS first, read it out loud, and then edit to taste?
Seriously, thanks for the tips of wisdom and gentle rebukes. I'll endeavor to be somewhat less flame-worthy with my statements, if that's possible.
There - Earth 2 Connor Hawke is white. Does that even things out now? :P
Now that's just weird. Does that mean that the Connor Hawke on Earth 1 (or whatever we're supposed to call New 52 continuity) is not white? Does the difference between dimensions have to do with skin color as opposed to "different roads traveled" in history?
It's just kind of bizarre. In answer to the question, I would say that NO, yet another pointless race-switch just makes things unnecessarily weirder. Not that I think any of this is a big deal.
It would be funny if the next "Crisis" event had to do with a rampaging multiversal entity that kept changing the races, genders, and sexualities of different characters. I'd suggest calling this entity the Homonitor. And for the Batman tie-in I'd want Grant Morrison to finally write the gay Batman, Robin, and Alfred. Seriously.
That's one of the reasons I don't like reading a Morrison Batman story. It seems he adds sex in one form or another into all his Dark Knight stories; Arkham Asylum, Gothic, the Waynes & their orgies, etc.
As I said about his Killing Joke comment, sometimes I think he makes statements just to get the press.
Just caught up on this thread yesterday. Here's my two cents for what its worth. Two cents I guess.
Not a fan of Wally West. Not a big Flash fan. And I am black. I don't a big emotional investment in them making any change to the character. When they were making the first Spider-man I had an idea of what the character would look like for his first screen appearance. Now that he will eventually have been on-screen seven times when Garfield is done I could see Miles Morales being on-screen. Go for it.
The fact is Warner Brothers owns the characters and the WB is going to create their universe with these characters. They have decided we are creating this TV universe in 2014 not 19-fucking-54. And there's a good chance that radiated spiders or gamma bombs or speed forces could hit some one of a different race, creed, religion, gender, or persuasion. The great majority of the viewing public really doesn't care about comic continutiy. Not a bit. I learned this awhile ago. I just hope they get to the spirit of what the character is. Just. Get Close.
Jesse Martin is an actor who's work I enjoyed in Law & Order and I guess he did great work on the stage. I was happy he got the role on the show. He's a talented man who happens to be black. The producers decided to take the risk (and based on the outcry this was a risk unfortunately) and cast the best actors for how they wanted to create the new Flash TV universe. I don't know about the young lady they cast as Iris but she's a cutey. She can't be any worse than the actress playing Laurel.
So I understand that we have a pre-conceived notion of how characters that we have followed for years would look on screen. But the producers are not trying to achieve diversity (which for many is a dirty word) but just some reality that was not achieved before.
Interesting interview with Denys Cowan from CBR that seems to touch on the great Wally debate without ever actually mentioning this specific character.
The thread is titled" Flash Fans Rejoice!" I must have presumed it was talking to me. I always considered myself a Flash fan. The abundance of posts was in response to a lack of validation in regards to my point of view. I respect everyone's opinion here, even those that disagree with me. so I hope no one was upset by my comments.
Suffice to say, THIS Flash fan found little to rejoice about here, my "racist trolling" notwithstanding.
Maybe I should weigh in since I started the thread. Until now, I've been sitting back and watching you (well, some of you) tear each other apart via flippant nonchalance or direct attacks (no matter how sarcastic). Which is disappointing if any of it was meant as sincere or hurtful. And if not, eh, it's the written word, pretty difficult to convey tone. Moving on.
When I posted this topic as "Flash Fans REJOICE" I was referencing the return of Wally West. PERIOD. Black, White, Asian, French Polynesian, Homosexual, Straight, Transgendered, Male or Female. Didn't care one bit. The whole point of the post was: Wally West is back.
Why? Because since the New 52 (well, a little before if you're counting after 'Brightest Day' and into 'Flashpoint') Flash fans were, by and large, shouting "WHERE'S WALLY?!?!?!" So when I saw an article saying Wally was FINALLY being introduced in the New 52, I posted the topic for those missing Wally. Did I think everyone would climb on board? Nope. But maybe someone would just like to know, "Hey, Wally is back."
About him being black. Does it bother me? Eh. I don't LOVE it. But to be fair, I'm fairly jaded on all things New 52 right now. The way DC makes decisions regarding creators and story direction being more editorial driven more than anything is what pisses me off. Suffice it to say, DC's business practices drive me away more than the actual story's themselves.
I went through all of this when it was announced that Alan Scott was now gay. It bothered me. Not because I was some ignorant jerk, but because change for the sake of change does more harm (usually) than good. But I got over it. The story's haven't been that bad. And quite honestly? When they announced Alan was now gay, the character himself had been around almost exactly 72 years. SEVENTY-TWO. To be fair, when a character has been around THAT LONG, what other story's are left to tell?
But regardless of how I felt at the time of the announcement, it didn't matter. I was going to read it anyways. So I could complain all I wanted, I was still going to read it to see what happened. Same with this Wally West thing. Same with the Flash TV series. Same with the Superman/Batman movie.
I can complain a billion times over in tons of different ways. None of it means a thing because I'm going to see/read it anyways. And even if I wasn't, DC has made it clear recently that they don't give a flying *ahem* about what I think or any of US think. Moreso than ever. (I think.) So we can form a committee, take up signatures and put MONEY behind the cause to get Wally West to be white again. DC is still going to say, "Sorry, but we're going THIS way."
Do I think that's how DC should treat our opinion? Nope. But doesn't matter. They've got the copyrights to some of the most iconic characters on the planet. In the grand scheme of things, my opinion doesn't equate to a thing. So, in the end, all I CAN do is vote with my dollars.
I agree, randomly changing a characters ethnicity or sexuality or whatever is jarring and sometimes upsetting. But it's pretty clear at this point that it doesn't matter to them what WE think.
Has Flashpoint become the new Crisis for DC? They seem to get a lot of mileage out of that storyline. Looks like it'll be the name of the solo Flash film. With the rumors about Batman being recast, is this how they do it?
Comments
As always, discussions stay on track best (and are usually more interesting) when we stay focused on the subject, and not on each other.
(But I think you all knew that already.)
So to @bralinator, may I respectfully suggest that you read your posts in a “loud” voice before posting them to hear how they sound? You may be surprised at what you hear. Again, I don’t think you need to apologize for your opinions. I believe it’s the wording and unintended tone of some of your posts that is the real problem here.
And to those who would snark first and ask questions later, can we please try a little harder to be sure of where a poster truly stands before pulling the trigger?
It's just kind of bizarre. In answer to the question, I would say that NO, yet another pointless race-switch just makes things unnecessarily weirder. Not that I think any of this is a big deal.
It would be funny if the next "Crisis" event had to do with a rampaging multiversal entity that kept changing the races, genders, and sexualities of different characters. I'd suggest calling this entity the Homonitor. And for the Batman tie-in I'd want Grant Morrison to finally write the gay Batman, Robin, and Alfred. Seriously.
The only "legacy" characters are the hard-to-explain Teen Titans, and the damn-near-impossible-to-explain Outsiders.
Seriously, thanks for the tips of wisdom and gentle rebukes. I'll endeavor to be somewhat less flame-worthy with my statements, if that's possible.
Let's move on and get back to the foolishness of DC's decision to turn characters that were previously mixed race (Red Arrow) or black (Onyx Adams) into white characters during Black history month now.
Or better yet, to rejoicing because of the Flash TV show spoilers...?
As I said about his Killing Joke comment, sometimes I think he makes statements just to get the press.
M
Not a fan of Wally West. Not a big Flash fan. And I am black. I don't a big emotional investment in them making any change to the character. When they were making the first Spider-man I had an idea of what the character would look like for his first screen appearance. Now that he will eventually have been on-screen seven times when Garfield is done I could see Miles Morales being on-screen. Go for it.
The fact is Warner Brothers owns the characters and the WB is going to create their universe with these characters. They have decided we are creating this TV universe in 2014 not 19-fucking-54. And there's a good chance that radiated spiders or gamma bombs or speed forces could hit some one of a different race, creed, religion, gender, or persuasion. The great majority of the viewing public really doesn't care about comic continutiy. Not a bit. I learned this awhile ago. I just hope they get to the spirit of what the character is. Just. Get Close.
Jesse Martin is an actor who's work I enjoyed in Law & Order and I guess he did great work on the stage. I was happy he got the role on the show. He's a talented man who happens to be black. The producers decided to take the risk (and based on the outcry this was a risk unfortunately) and cast the best actors for how they wanted to create the new Flash TV universe. I don't know about the young lady they cast as Iris but she's a cutey. She can't be any worse than the actress playing Laurel.
So I understand that we have a pre-conceived notion of how characters that we have followed for years would look on screen. But the producers are not trying to achieve diversity (which for many is a dirty word) but just some reality that was not achieved before.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=50864
Yes! I picked that scab!
When I posted this topic as "Flash Fans REJOICE" I was referencing the return of Wally West. PERIOD. Black, White, Asian, French Polynesian, Homosexual, Straight, Transgendered, Male or Female. Didn't care one bit. The whole point of the post was: Wally West is back.
Why? Because since the New 52 (well, a little before if you're counting after 'Brightest Day' and into 'Flashpoint') Flash fans were, by and large, shouting "WHERE'S WALLY?!?!?!" So when I saw an article saying Wally was FINALLY being introduced in the New 52, I posted the topic for those missing Wally. Did I think everyone would climb on board? Nope. But maybe someone would just like to know, "Hey, Wally is back."
About him being black. Does it bother me? Eh. I don't LOVE it. But to be fair, I'm fairly jaded on all things New 52 right now. The way DC makes decisions regarding creators and story direction being more editorial driven more than anything is what pisses me off. Suffice it to say, DC's business practices drive me away more than the actual story's themselves.
I went through all of this when it was announced that Alan Scott was now gay. It bothered me. Not because I was some ignorant jerk, but because change for the sake of change does more harm (usually) than good. But I got over it. The story's haven't been that bad. And quite honestly? When they announced Alan was now gay, the character himself had been around almost exactly 72 years. SEVENTY-TWO. To be fair, when a character has been around THAT LONG, what other story's are left to tell?
But regardless of how I felt at the time of the announcement, it didn't matter. I was going to read it anyways. So I could complain all I wanted, I was still going to read it to see what happened. Same with this Wally West thing. Same with the Flash TV series. Same with the Superman/Batman movie.
I can complain a billion times over in tons of different ways. None of it means a thing because I'm going to see/read it anyways. And even if I wasn't, DC has made it clear recently that they don't give a flying *ahem* about what I think or any of US think. Moreso than ever. (I think.) So we can form a committee, take up signatures and put MONEY behind the cause to get Wally West to be white again. DC is still going to say, "Sorry, but we're going THIS way."
Do I think that's how DC should treat our opinion? Nope. But doesn't matter. They've got the copyrights to some of the most iconic characters on the planet. In the grand scheme of things, my opinion doesn't equate to a thing. So, in the end, all I CAN do is vote with my dollars.
I agree, randomly changing a characters ethnicity or sexuality or whatever is jarring and sometimes upsetting. But it's pretty clear at this point that it doesn't matter to them what WE think.
http://collider.com/the-flash-movie-flashpoint/