Help an old confused man who can't always figure out the wibbly-wobbly timey wimey stuff...
So, this Flash went back, saved his mother, and another Flash disappeared that was there. Which Flash was that? And does this negate the entirety of season 2? I'm not doing a good job of explaining this to the wife...mainly because I can't figure it out.
Enlighten me, those of you who got what was happening there. What are the implications moving forward?
@Torchsong I'll try to help you out but I'm not entirely sure I get it either. So at the end of the first season, Flash does go back in time to save his mom in order to get his dad out of jail but winds up not doing it. That's why when you see the second Flash in the episode, he's wearing the old chest plate. When the present-day Flash saved his mom, there was no reason for past Flash to go back and I'm assuming that's why he disappeared because he never had to go back in time to save his mom.
As for the implications? Who knows. I mean that. This is basically the beginning of the Flashpoint paradox in the DC television Universe. What they could do with this is anyone's guess. This could be how they bring Supergirl into the same world as Flash and Arrow. They could bring people back from the dead or wipe them out like they never existed. I guess we'll find out next season.
What? Flash's time travel rules are nonsensical jibber jabber? Sense when?
Since always, that's when. But I think I have it 75% figured out. A remnant is left over from a different timeline that ensures that timeline will never exist. They prevent causal loops from forming.
So Barry created a time remnant by going back to moments before he left. Ok, I buy that. By present Barry not to go back in time, future Barry is the remnant of timeline that no longer exists, preventing a paradox.
So when Reverse Flash is erased, that I get too. Every version of Thawne we've seen is a time remnant, there to ensure he never exists in this new timeline, which means that Barry will continue to encounter Reverse Flash in any instance Thawne travelled back in time, but if he were to go to the future, he would never find the Reverse Flash, and they would never encounter each other in a synchronized time frame, because Barry exists in a world where Thawne will never be born.
When Barry goes back to confront Evil Wells, and get his tachyon tech, he doesn't create a remnant because he is able to return to the future. But if he were to go back a second time, the Barry that went back the first time would be a time remnant, since he came from the timeline where Hartely reformed, but never returned to that timeline because our Barry did.
Ok, now the big one. The Barry that fights RF and saves his younger self is a Future Flash fighting a time remnant, in what is the last time Flash encounters RF in his personal timeline. S1 Flash is also there, as is S2 Flash who changes history by saving his mother. S1 Flash is erased because his presence is not required to prevent a paradox. Future Flash becomes a time remnant, because without him there is a paradox. But what about Mystery Flash, present when S1 Flash originally went back and told him not to get involved? That's S3 Flash come back to restore the timeline S2 Flash destroyed!
What should happen is that S2 Flash has turned himself into a time remnant as well, and when he returns to the present he ceases to exist. We follow a brand new S3 Barry as he either is or becomes the Flash. He will learn over time that the world he currently lives in, which is terrible for some reason, is his fault, maybe from Earth-2 Wells or Jay Garrick, who, once they returned to their earth should not be affected by Barry's meddling, or a vibing Cisco or some combination of those elements. And he goes back, stops the S2 Flash, sending him back to the present before he intervenes in his mother's murder, which would restore S1 and S2 Flash to the timeline while S3 becomes the remnant himself.
Only...
There are no remnants from when he fought Weather Wizard or Vandal Savage (unless Barry is a murderer and has a stack of dead versions of himself in a basement somewhere). So who knows.
When I heard there was going to be Jay in Season 2, I thought not initially casting JWS as the original Flash was a wasted opportunity. Looks like I wasn't the only one.
Grant Gustin has said the title of S3 EP1is Flashpoint. I'm kinda nervous. I love this show hope this doesn't ruin it. I'm hoping its just a way to get supergirl onto the same earth.
Looks great, he's not really much of a "kid" anymore I suppose. The name certainly rolls off the tongue easier than Young Adult Flash I suppose. Wonder if there will be an explanation regarding its similarity to the Reverse Flash costume? And will Barry go back to let his mom be killed and wipe away Kid Flash? These questions and more will be answered and asked this fall on the CW.
It looks classic and that's very cool. And this season is very exciting because so much can be different. And I'm wondering if the Flashpoint will last like midseason? Or the whole season? Or maybe it will just be the new verse going forward?
I recently caught up on the final episodes of Season 2 of the Flash that have been sitting on my PVR. It just now dawned on me that I did not see the Supergirl/Flash crossover. I have not been watching Supergirl, and have avoided discussions on the boards for fear of spoilers. Was the "crossover" a Supergirl only thing, with Flash only appearing in her show? or has it not happened yet?
Someone please give me the goods so I can track it down.
Season 3 Episode 1 - A good episode and very complicated because of the time travel stuff.
Like why doesn't Joe know Barry? I thought originally Henry and Joe where friends and that's why he took Barry in?
And I guess in the alternate future there was no Particle Accelerator Explosion? Because Eobard made that happen like 10 years before it was supposed to.
And another thing with Eobard is at the end he was able to bring Barry back to the present meaning he doesn't loose his speed in the past and he doesn't kill Wells and still no Explosion no Flash 10 years early.
Getting really bored with (1) Alternate Realities and (2) More Speedsters (good, bad, or otherwise). Happy to see Dr. Alchemy is coming down the pike...something different!
Getting really bored with (1) Alternate Realities and (2) More Speedsters (good, bad, or otherwise). Happy to see Dr. Alchemy is coming down the pike...something different!
The Speedster's thing I definitely agree on. Which is why originally last season my first crazy theory was that Zoom would end up being Parasite one that steals speed. And I hoped it would be the case more than I thought it would actually happen.
But hopefully this season no big time main villain will be a Speedster.
And I don't think where actually done with Flashpoint yet? I don't think we'll be done until we see our current Barry go back in time and wave himself off like in the S1 Finale.
The number of times Barry has time-swapped or reshuffled reality is getting absurd. Time and dimensional-travel should ideally be the absolute apex of Flash's abilities, meaning things that don't (or can't) happen very often due to the sheer difficulty and danger of attempting them. The ease at which Barry was traversing time and space in the Season 3 opener made it look like a walk around the block, dramatically lowering the stakes and spinning the narrative into a perpetual state of set and reset. My fear is that the entire season will now become some dithering domino effect, giving us variation after variation in reality, to the point where no reality has emotional or logical resonance.
When they were in the Flashpoint time line Eobard had a beard because he was locked in a cage for 3 months. By the time he brought Barry back to the current timeline, no beard.
I agree with all the changes its like the previous seasons don't matter. They are immediately changed, like with Iris not talking to Joe.
The first episode of the new series felt like a big Russell T. Davis big button reset. I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. I am just waiting for Supergirl.
Comments
As for the implications? Who knows. I mean that. This is basically the beginning of the Flashpoint paradox in the DC television Universe. What they could do with this is anyone's guess. This could be how they bring Supergirl into the same world as Flash and Arrow. They could bring people back from the dead or wipe them out like they never existed. I guess we'll find out next season.
Since always, that's when. But I think I have it 75% figured out. A remnant is left over from a different timeline that ensures that timeline will never exist. They prevent causal loops from forming.
So Barry created a time remnant by going back to moments before he left. Ok, I buy that. By present Barry not to go back in time, future Barry is the remnant of timeline that no longer exists, preventing a paradox.
So when Reverse Flash is erased, that I get too. Every version of Thawne we've seen is a time remnant, there to ensure he never exists in this new timeline, which means that Barry will continue to encounter Reverse Flash in any instance Thawne travelled back in time, but if he were to go to the future, he would never find the Reverse Flash, and they would never encounter each other in a synchronized time frame, because Barry exists in a world where Thawne will never be born.
When Barry goes back to confront Evil Wells, and get his tachyon tech, he doesn't create a remnant because he is able to return to the future. But if he were to go back a second time, the Barry that went back the first time would be a time remnant, since he came from the timeline where Hartely reformed, but never returned to that timeline because our Barry did.
Ok, now the big one. The Barry that fights RF and saves his younger self is a Future Flash fighting a time remnant, in what is the last time Flash encounters RF in his personal timeline. S1 Flash is also there, as is S2 Flash who changes history by saving his mother. S1 Flash is erased because his presence is not required to prevent a paradox. Future Flash becomes a time remnant, because without him there is a paradox. But what about Mystery Flash, present when S1 Flash originally went back and told him not to get involved? That's S3 Flash come back to restore the timeline S2 Flash destroyed!
What should happen is that S2 Flash has turned himself into a time remnant as well, and when he returns to the present he ceases to exist. We follow a brand new S3 Barry as he either is or becomes the Flash. He will learn over time that the world he currently lives in, which is terrible for some reason, is his fault, maybe from Earth-2 Wells or Jay Garrick, who, once they returned to their earth should not be affected by Barry's meddling, or a vibing Cisco or some combination of those elements. And he goes back, stops the S2 Flash, sending him back to the present before he intervenes in his mother's murder, which would restore S1 and S2 Flash to the timeline while S3 becomes the remnant himself.
Only...
There are no remnants from when he fought Weather Wizard or Vandal Savage (unless Barry is a murderer and has a stack of dead versions of himself in a basement somewhere). So who knows.
This is the only part of the Finale that bothered me. Put your damn hat on straight Jay!
M
I really really hope whoever the big villain of Season 3 is? That they are not a speedster.
Barry Allen. :)
Was the "crossover" a Supergirl only thing, with Flash only appearing in her show? or has it not happened yet?
Someone please give me the goods so I can track it down.
Like why doesn't Joe know Barry? I thought originally Henry and Joe where friends and that's why he took Barry in?
And I guess in the alternate future there was no Particle Accelerator Explosion? Because Eobard made that happen like 10 years before it was supposed to.
And another thing with Eobard is at the end he was able to bring Barry back to the present meaning he doesn't loose his speed in the past and he doesn't kill Wells and still no Explosion no Flash 10 years early.
This is why Time Travel is tough lol.
But hopefully this season no big time main villain will be a Speedster.
And I don't think where actually done with Flashpoint yet? I don't think we'll be done until we see our current Barry go back in time and wave himself off like in the S1 Finale.
You know...just like in the comics.
I agree with all the changes its like the previous seasons don't matter. They are immediately changed, like with Iris not talking to Joe.