This episode was good in parts but stupid in others.
Basically everything in the Speed Force was good. Cool seeing Eddie, Ronnie, The Black Flash, Snart, and Jay. That stuff was good. Jay having to take Wally's place would suck if they of course weren't going to save him.
But Jessie going after Savitar and her hurting him was OK. I am super happy she left. I don't mind her it's just 2 Speedsters on the good guy side is plenty.
But the terrible part was the ending. CW legitimately has zero idea how to write good relationship stuff across all of the DC Shows.
They just don't write any realism in their relationships at all. Nobody on Earth would do or react the way they do in this Universe. It's just ridiculous and is the worst part about The Flash, Arrow, Legends, Supergirl.
Agreed. The relationship crap is not only being more central to the show than, oh I don't know, SPEEDSTER SUPERHEROICS but it's not even GOOD relationship drama. I don't like much relationship drama but, like everything, there's good and there's bad. This is just BAD.
They've managed to turn Barry Allen, originally one of the most likable characters on TV into a whiny, jerky douche I just can't care about any more. Congratulations, CW!
I am not currently watching the show. Why are any of you? From the last few months of this thread, it seems that nobody here really likes it anymore.
I'll say the quality has gone done from the first two seasons but not so much that I would quick watching the show. They do have to do some character rehab with Barry.
Now, Supergirl and Legends? Those shows I have either quit (Legends) or taken a hiatus from due to Mon-El. He goes then I come back.
I am not currently watching the show. Why are any of you? From the last few months of this thread, it seems that nobody here really likes it anymore.
Because of Arrow. Arrow had the same thing happen and now it's really good again. This Season of Arrow is definitely better than Season 1. And we'll see be the end if it can be as good as S2?
And the Flash there are still parts of it that are good. But the bad stuff is so bad that it overshadows the good stuff like with Season 3 of Arrow.
The relationship stuff is the big one. But also there are just to many characters on this show. I think they need Caitlyn to become Killer Frost and leave the show for awhile? I wish there was a Teen Titans show so Wally could go there.
I've been thinking about why I've been having such a problem with this show lately? And I think at the heart of it is Barry Allen doesn't feel like a Hero in this show. It feels like everything he's doing is for his own self-interest. I feel like he isn't trying so hard to save Iris for herself but so he doesn't loose another person.
This isn't like the Barry in Season 1 who choose to not save his mother because his other self said no. That was a Hero choice. And I understand that may be what they are going for? But I don't like it and find Barry completely unlikable right now.
And that's an issue for me. Because in Arrow even though I've not liked some story stuff, I've never not liked Oliver.
That was bad last night. They wasted a cross-over episode for a musical reason to reunite two couples who are going to have some CW-ish reason to break up all over again. It was so stupid. Stupid. Stupid. I hate to be so negative. Even my son who couldn't wait for this episode to get here was not happy with the episode.
Update: I realized I should give props for the one scene that had the Martian Manhunter, Vibe, and Kid Flash team-up. That was cool. The rest of it was blah.
I've been thinking about why I've been having such a problem with this show lately? And I think at the heart of it is Barry Allen doesn't feel like a Hero in this show. It feels like everything he's doing is for his own self-interest. I feel like he isn't trying so hard to save Iris for herself but so he doesn't lose another person.
I've been thinking about why I've been having such a problem with this show lately? And I think at the heart of it is Barry Allen doesn't feel like a Hero in this show. It feels like everything he's doing is for his own self-interest. I feel like he isn't trying so hard to save Iris for herself but so he doesn't lose another person.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
The Music Meister was created in the Batman: Brave & the Bold cartoon in what was arguably the second-best episode of the series, though he has since appeared in a comic or two. Your nerd card will not be revoked, but you will be put on probation. :smiley:
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
The Music Meister was created in the Batman: Brave & the Bold cartoon in what was arguably the second-best episode of the series, though he has since appeared in a comic or two. Your nerd card will not be revoked, but you will be put on probation. :smiley:
My son loves that episode. He was singing the song the last few weeks leading up to this episode.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
The Music Meister was created in the Batman: Brave & the Bold cartoon in what was arguably the second-best episode of the series, though he has since appeared in a comic or two. Your nerd card will not be revoked, but you will be put on probation. :smiley:
Thanks. I know that Barry called him Music Meister, but I don't remember him having that kind of power set. I need to watch that B&B episode again.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
The Music Meister was created in the Batman: Brave & the Bold cartoon in what was arguably the second-best episode of the series, though he has since appeared in a comic or two. Your nerd card will not be revoked, but you will be put on probation. :smiley:
Thanks. I know that Barry called him Music Meister, but I don't remember him having that kind of power set. I need to watch that B&B episode again.
I need to watch them all again, such a fun show. Highly entertaining!
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
OK. You all can take away my nerd card if you want, but I have to ask. Who was the antagonist in the musical crossover? I didn't catch his name and don't care to watch the episode again.
The Music Meister was created in the Batman: Brave & the Bold cartoon in what was arguably the second-best episode of the series, though he has since appeared in a comic or two. Your nerd card will not be revoked, but you will be put on probation. :smiley:
Thanks. I know that Barry called him Music Meister, but I don't remember him having that kind of power set. I need to watch that B&B episode again.
I need to watch them all again, such a fun show. Highly entertaining!
Liked this episode, the new suit looks cool, and after this episode I can only think of 2 people Savitar could be? Ronnie or Barry?
Killer Frost trusted Savitar immediately after seeing him so I thought Ronnie?
Or it's Barry? Right now that's my guess. In this episode in the future when they go see Killer Frost, when she was talking about Savitar there was this blue light masking Barry's face, Foreshadowing? I think this could be the Barry that maybe sent that message to the Legends?
And he would literally be the Future Flash. But I can't understand why Barry would want to kill Iris? Because ultimately the first Barry that becomes Savitar his Iris wouldn't have been killed by Savitar.
So it's really confusing if it is Barry? But it's Time Travel and Time Travel is B.S.
Spoilers for the most recent episode. Savitar's Identity Revealed.
I'm indifferent right now how I feel about it? I do think it was an exciting reveal, and made more excited about Savitar then I was the entire season. Before I judge it, It will depend on why and how Barry becomes Savitar? And why he wants to murder Iris?
But I feel like their will be no real explanation as to how or why the first Barry to become Savitar kills Iris. Because obviously that Barry's Iris wouldn't have died at the hands of Savitar. I have a terrible feeling their just going to say "Time Paradox" there is no beginning and move on.
Which I absolutely hate and why I dislike Time Travel, especially since they've already done a giant Paradox earlier this season. Which I hated and started me off on the wrong foot with this season.
Of course the Barry we saw in the future will keep spiraling and eventually become Savitar. And probably the Barry from 2056 who gave the Legends a message is the Barry right before he becomes Savitar. Because in the message he says don't trust anyone including himself.
I think there is some kind of plan that Savitar has in mind to some how have Barry eventually beat him? But to what end?
It's so freaking complicated, I just don't see a way they can make this turn out good? Especially imo how terrible the show has been written this season.
But one thing I do feel better about is how Barry hasn't been much of a Hero this season. That was clearly an attentional choice. The start of the path that leads him into becoming Savitar.
There's still good in Barry-tar. After eventually seeing the problems he caused by giving everyone powers and filled with regret, he goes back in time and kills Iris, hoping that will force original Barry to change course and stop him from becoming Barry-tar in the first place. Barry-tar vanishes in the wink of a time paradox.
There's still good in Barry-tar. After eventually seeing the problems he caused by giving everyone powers and filled with regret, he goes back in time and kills Iris, hoping that will force original Barry to change course and stop him from becoming Barry-tar in the first place. Barry-tar vanishes in the wink of a time paradox.
Yes I hope there was no other Savitar, only this version of Barry becoming him, that way there is no how did the first Barry-tar Iris get killed?
The problem is they could have solved another big Paradox easy early this season. When the RF Barry let kill his mom, that RF took Barry back to his present, meaning he didn't loose his speed in the past and he didn't become Wells, Meaning the entire series wouldn't have happened because RF gave Barry his powers 10 years earlier than he was supposed to. And yet apparently it still happened some how?
All they had to do was let that RF run off after killing the mom, we then assume everything that happened still does, and Barry just goes back to his present, with either his own speed or waking up on the porch.
Honestly, I'm still waiting for the Legends to make a surprise appearance and stop Flashpoint from ever happening. Next season of the Flash starts with him getting out of the shower, Bobby Ewing-style.
So what did everyone else think of that explanation for Evil Barry. Time remnant makes sense since it makes no sense for any Barry in the time line to become evil so a Barry either from another dimension or in this case the remnant from outside the time-line works for me. And using the loop or "chicken or the egg" analogy frees up having to explain how it happen. I guess you muck up the timeline that will happen.
So what did everyone else think of that explanation for Evil Barry. Time remnant makes sense since it makes no sense for any Barry in the time line to become evil so a Barry either from another dimension or in this case the remnant from outside the time-line works for me. And using the loop or "chicken or the egg" analogy frees up having to explain how it happen. I guess you muck up the timeline that will happen.
But how does he give people powers?
Perhaps begin from outside of time he can reach through and access various chronal potentials?
Watching the finale now.....a perfectly sucky ending to a perfectly sucky season. What boring garbage. Nothing like a show about the Fastest Man Alive being 85% people standing around talking in dimly-lit rooms. Season Grade: D-
I agree for the most part, the action in the park was cool, and when current Barry forced Savitar out of his suit that was cool.
But Iris killing Savitar was dumb, oh and HR dying instead of Iris was stupid as well. Not him dying for her is stupid, but how he set it up was. He goes and frees Iris Savitar sees them. And the Fastest Man Alive tells Killer Frost to Catch Them????
The one thing I did like was the ending, I've said all season long Barry hasn't been a Hero, and I think that was by design? But I said Barry needs to make a heroic sacrifice in this Finale like in Season 1, And he did. Of course he'll be back he literally has to because of the future News Paper. But still it was a heroic sacrifice.
I want to see this show return to its action-oriented roots. The endless heart-to-heart talks and talking head scenes are so antithetical to a kinetic hero like the Flash. They've completely lost their direction on this series.
I'd like to see less season big bad (no speedsters) and return to more villain-of-the-week episodes, and maybe let Iris be a reporter and Barry do his forensic scientist job some more with less concern about everyone's dating lives.
Also, less Speed Force focus, and stop making Flash cry with all the sad emo storylines.
Comments
Now, Supergirl and Legends? Those shows I have either quit (Legends) or taken a hiatus from due to Mon-El. He goes then I come back.
And the Flash there are still parts of it that are good. But the bad stuff is so bad that it overshadows the good stuff like with Season 3 of Arrow.
The relationship stuff is the big one. But also there are just to many characters on this show. I think they need Caitlyn to become Killer Frost and leave the show for awhile? I wish there was a Teen Titans show so Wally could go there.
This isn't like the Barry in Season 1 who choose to not save his mother because his other self said no. That was a Hero choice. And I understand that may be what they are going for? But I don't like it and find Barry completely unlikable right now.
And that's an issue for me. Because in Arrow even though I've not liked some story stuff, I've never not liked Oliver.
Update: I realized I should give props for the one scene that had the Martian Manhunter, Vibe, and Kid Flash team-up. That was cool. The rest of it was blah.
The Music Meister. And I'm with you.
I need to watch that B&B episode again.
Killer Frost trusted Savitar immediately after seeing him so I thought Ronnie?
Or it's Barry? Right now that's my guess. In this episode in the future when they go see Killer Frost, when she was talking about Savitar there was this blue light masking Barry's face, Foreshadowing? I think this could be the Barry that maybe sent that message to the Legends?
And he would literally be the Future Flash. But I can't understand why Barry would want to kill Iris? Because ultimately the first Barry that becomes Savitar his Iris wouldn't have been killed by Savitar.
So it's really confusing if it is Barry? But it's Time Travel and Time Travel is B.S.
I'm indifferent right now how I feel about it? I do think it was an exciting reveal, and made more excited about Savitar then I was the entire season. Before I judge it, It will depend on why and how Barry becomes Savitar? And why he wants to murder Iris?
But I feel like their will be no real explanation as to how or why the first Barry to become Savitar kills Iris. Because obviously that Barry's Iris wouldn't have died at the hands of Savitar. I have a terrible feeling their just going to say "Time Paradox" there is no beginning and move on.
Which I absolutely hate and why I dislike Time Travel, especially since they've already done a giant Paradox earlier this season. Which I hated and started me off on the wrong foot with this season.
Of course the Barry we saw in the future will keep spiraling and eventually become Savitar. And probably the Barry from 2056 who gave the Legends a message is the Barry right before he becomes Savitar. Because in the message he says don't trust anyone including himself.
I think there is some kind of plan that Savitar has in mind to some how have Barry eventually beat him? But to what end?
It's so freaking complicated, I just don't see a way they can make this turn out good? Especially imo how terrible the show has been written this season.
But one thing I do feel better about is how Barry hasn't been much of a Hero this season. That was clearly an attentional choice. The start of the path that leads him into becoming Savitar.
The problem is they could have solved another big Paradox easy early this season. When the RF Barry let kill his mom, that RF took Barry back to his present, meaning he didn't loose his speed in the past and he didn't become Wells, Meaning the entire series wouldn't have happened because RF gave Barry his powers 10 years earlier than he was supposed to. And yet apparently it still happened some how?
All they had to do was let that RF run off after killing the mom, we then assume everything that happened still does, and Barry just goes back to his present, with either his own speed or waking up on the porch.
But how does he give people powers?
But Iris killing Savitar was dumb, oh and HR dying instead of Iris was stupid as well. Not him dying for her is stupid, but how he set it up was. He goes and frees Iris Savitar sees them. And the Fastest Man Alive tells Killer Frost to Catch Them????
The one thing I did like was the ending, I've said all season long Barry hasn't been a Hero, and I think that was by design? But I said Barry needs to make a heroic sacrifice in this Finale like in Season 1, And he did. Of course he'll be back he literally has to because of the future News Paper. But still it was a heroic sacrifice.
Also, less Speed Force focus, and stop making Flash cry with all the sad emo storylines.