He's what the IP owners and show developers what him to be. Much like the decision to go with a more Longbow Hunters GA - sure we get an occasional trick arrow, but we're (hopefully) never going to get the boxing glove arrow or the Errol Flynn hat.
That's too bad, really. As much as I enjoy the show as is, I would have preferred the hat and the trick arrows. That's the real Green Arrow.
Get off my lawn!! All these characters have been interpreted in different ways. What is the "real"? I hate that shit.
The coloring scheme really isn't an issue for me - but that bright color would be a wreck on tv especially against backgrounds, other characters etc. It's the kind of thing most people don't think of because they have no experience in TV. Plus - the simplicity is fine for a runner (she does seem to have piping around the knees? or knee braces?) - but Flash is not just a "runner". He's a super hero. And a "human" one at that. He can be punched, kicked, slammed against a wall, hit with weapons, etc. "Tights" just doesn't cut it in the "real" world. Comics are one thing, tv/movies are another.
Looks like they took their cue from the Captain America/Avengers movie costume (which certainly isn't the simple clean spandex feel of the Golden/Silver Age era). Panels. Padding. Head gear. Everything a human needs to protect themselves and also be able to put the damn thing on. Haha. Although the CA costume "fits" better. Then again, the Flash actor has to actually run in this thing - so that could be why there's excess material. We'll see how it "moves" on the TeeVee.
Absolutely correct if your satisfied with characters never having evolved past the bronze age. This nails down the disagreement that you and I have had with regard to the LSH as well. I like it when characters grow and evolve (I don't always care for the direction in which they grow or evolve) - you appear to prefer that they remain in stasis.
No one in their right mind would wear the Silver Age Flash costume today as is - modern costuming and normal sense wouldn't allow it. :))
Why wouldn't they? That's an argument that doesn't make sense to me. The purpose is to simply have a good, simple running suit, something a runner could get around in. For that, Barry's costume, as originally designed, was perfect. The redesign adds nothing but 'spinach', a lot of extra lines that do nothing for the overall design. And this isn't a 'dark' character who needs subdued tones -- he's a bright, optimistic character, and the colors of his outfit should reflect that.
How about saturated colors don't actually look good on living, breathing human beings? They don't wear as well? These leathers are easier to polish since oxblood shoe polish is available at Target?
He's what the IP owners and show developers what him to be. Much like the decision to go with a more Longbow Hunters GA - sure we get an occasional trick arrow, but we're (hopefully) never going to get the boxing glove arrow or the Errol Flynn hat.
Seeing the full body pics, I'm still OK with the overall design, but don't care for the fact that the suit seems baggy.
Yea, bright red just wouldn't work. ;)
Yep - works great on an Olympic athlete - less good one someone more likely to have acting chops, or, built like their ability to run really fast is the result of a super power and not tremendous amounts of training and muscle development. Try doing that with most actors and you're going to end up with a less felt-like version of the John Wesley Shipp costume.
Ultimately, I'm OK with all of this and not going to get up in arms when the production team makes little tweaks. I'm more than satisfied with Arrow and as long as they keep with at least that level of quality, I'll continue to be entertained and watch the show. I'm far more interested in how they develop the world and the character than I am in how spot on they are to the Infantino model sheet.
Absolutely correct if your satisfied with characters never having evolved past the bronze age. This nails down the disagreement that you and I have had with regard to the LSH as well. I like it when characters grow and evolve (I don't always care for the direction in which they grow or evolve) - you appear to prefer that they remain in stasis.
No, I have no problem with character evolution. I prefer it, in fact. I get annoyed when new writers or editors come on a book and redirect the series back to some point before where the character has evolved to where he is now, effectively wiping out all that evolution in order to maintain the perceived status quo -- such as they did with Spider-Man with OMD. (Which was when I stopped reading the book.) And I'm not talking about reboots, which I can accept, but simply writing away everything in order to put the character 'back where he belongs'.
But simply changing things for the sake of changing them is not evolution. It's just doing things to make them appear to have evolved. It's an attempt to make old things look new. It's a facade and nothing more.
The post-ZH Legion was a reboot, starting over from scratch and taking new directions. That was cool. (As was the Crisis reboot before that.)
Steve Englehart and John Ostrander took established characters through a series of conflicts, both external and personal, that moved the characters forward. That was evolution. (And there are likely a number of writers that could also be inserted here... like Mark Waid or Grant Morrison... but these were the best examples I could think of off the bat.)
Spider-Man OMD was a shoe-horned event in order to get rid of his marriage and make him a misunderstood loner again. That was lame.
DC's New52 was a weak attempt at a reboot and instead dropped a lot of bad costumes and characters that were suddenly contrary to their original, basic concepts (for the most part). That was a cynical move to shake things up and make readers think there was an evolution in progress, but more so to artificially boost sales for a few months. It was nothing more than change for change sake.
Absolutely correct if your satisfied with characters never having evolved past the bronze age. This nails down the disagreement that you and I have had with regard to the LSH as well. I like it when characters grow and evolve (I don't always care for the direction in which they grow or evolve) - you appear to prefer that they remain in stasis.
No, I have no problem with character evolution. I prefer it, in fact. I get annoyed when new writers or editors come on a book and redirect the series back to some point before where the character has evolved to where he is now, effectively wiping out all that evolution in order to maintain the perceived status quo -- such as they did with Spider-Man with OMD. (Which was when I stopped reading the book.) And I'm not talking about reboots, which I can accept, but simply writing away everything in order to put the character 'back where he belongs'.
But simply changing things for the sake of changing them is not evolution. It's just doing things to make them appear to have evolved. It's an attempt to make old things look new. It's a facade and nothing more.
The post-ZH Legion was a reboot, starting over from scratch and taking new directions. That was cool. (As was the Crisis reboot before that.)
Steve Englehart and John Ostrander took established characters through a series of conflicts, both external and personal, that moved the characters forward. That was evolution. (And there are likely a number of writers that could also be inserted here... like Mark Waid or Grant Morrison... but these were the best examples I could think of off the bat.)
Spider-Man OMD was a shoe-horned event in order to get rid of his marriage and make him a misunderstood loner again. That was lame.
DC's New52 was a weak attempt at a reboot and instead dropped a lot of bad costumes and characters that were suddenly contrary to their original, basic concepts (for the most part). That was a cynical move to shake things up and make readers think there was an evolution in progress, but more so to artificially boost sales for a few months. It was nothing more than change for change sake.
That helps, but, for what it's worth, that's not what comes across in most of your posts and, ultimately, we're talking about works of fiction so any change or evolution is by design and is, by definition, change for the sake of change. Sometimes, it's organic like Moore on Swampthing, Ostrander on Spectre or Grell on Green Arrow. Other times it's shoe horned - like OMD or Zero Hour or, for that matter Crisis.
We'll continue to disagree on Zero Hour. While the Legion may have been one of the less malignant changes to have occurred (unlike Fate or Manhunter for instance) but it also undid years of incredibly organic evolution (and the much more abrupt 5YL series - though I think that there's a whole side discussion about Giffen as iconoclast that needs to be a part of any conversation regarding the 5YL run, especially in light of his more recent works). You see starting over from scratch, I see undoing years of growth in favor or the retelling of many of the same origin stories updated for a new generation and, more importantly a return to something near tabula rasa by going back to the teen characters. For those people that enjoyed the 5YL run, the argument could be made that Zero Hour was a shoe-horned event in order to get rid of the older Legion and make them a bunch of naïve teenagers again.
I won't disagree about the New52, though I suspect that there were plenty of people saying the same things immediately after Crisis - they just didn't have the costume designs to add to the fire.
First, I'm not judging the show. I haven't seen it. I am simply looking at this particular costume, so, please, internetizens, do not see me as "dismissing" the show out of hand before I even see it. I'm just talking about the costume, okay?
The first images (the cowl and the crouched suit teaser) I did not really mind. In fact, I was pleased that they kept as much of a costume as they did.
Today's reveal, though... wow... oof... yeah.
Daylight does NOT flatter that costume.
I get that costumes get reinterpreted for different media, but, really, this is a case where the reinterpretation doesn't fit.
It isn't even all the dumb extra lines (and, yeah, they are dumb, they don't add anything to the design, they make it generally weaker, especially the ones on the cowl that make him look like Ant Man) or the chin guard. The muted color? I don't mind that at all (except they put a clashing bright red background under the lightning emblem on the chest - that is just poor decision-making right there). The wings turning into flatter lightning bolts? No problem, I can dig that.
No, my problem is entirely the idea of a speed based hero wearing what looks like loose motorcycle leathers.
I know that the old TV Show costume was built like the '89 Batman costume and impossible to move fluidly in, but it at least had the illusion of sleek and form-fitting that you expect with a runner.
I am sure that there is a reasonable design that lies somewhere closer to those Olympic runner/skater outfits that could work. The Raimi Spider-Man costume was closer to that spandex look without being just a guy in spandex. I truly think there was a better option.
I was skimming through a long line of comments on Facebook regarding the costume and most of the reactions were pretty negative, ranging from "needs a color correction" to "Daredevil wants his leathers back". It's not going over very well, though this was just one fount of feedback and likely not conclusive. One comment summed it up best, I think: "You don't fix what ain't broke to begin with."
Comments
The Oxblood Overtaker!
Clearly.
All these characters have been interpreted in different ways. What is the "real"? I hate that shit.
I have to say I am not really that impressed with this, but will overlook it if the writing and acting are solid.
Ultimately, I'm OK with all of this and not going to get up in arms when the production team makes little tweaks. I'm more than satisfied with Arrow and as long as they keep with at least that level of quality, I'll continue to be entertained and watch the show. I'm far more interested in how they develop the world and the character than I am in how spot on they are to the Infantino model sheet.
:-??
Is Flash doing a nollie flip?
But simply changing things for the sake of changing them is not evolution. It's just doing things to make them appear to have evolved. It's an attempt to make old things look new. It's a facade and nothing more.
The post-ZH Legion was a reboot, starting over from scratch and taking new directions. That was cool. (As was the Crisis reboot before that.)
Steve Englehart and John Ostrander took established characters through a series of conflicts, both external and personal, that moved the characters forward. That was evolution. (And there are likely a number of writers that could also be inserted here... like Mark Waid or Grant Morrison... but these were the best examples I could think of off the bat.)
Spider-Man OMD was a shoe-horned event in order to get rid of his marriage and make him a misunderstood loner again. That was lame.
DC's New52 was a weak attempt at a reboot and instead dropped a lot of bad costumes and characters that were suddenly contrary to their original, basic concepts (for the most part). That was a cynical move to shake things up and make readers think there was an evolution in progress, but more so to artificially boost sales for a few months. It was nothing more than change for change sake.
We'll continue to disagree on Zero Hour. While the Legion may have been one of the less malignant changes to have occurred (unlike Fate or Manhunter for instance) but it also undid years of incredibly organic evolution (and the much more abrupt 5YL series - though I think that there's a whole side discussion about Giffen as iconoclast that needs to be a part of any conversation regarding the 5YL run, especially in light of his more recent works). You see starting over from scratch, I see undoing years of growth in favor or the retelling of many of the same origin stories updated for a new generation and, more importantly a return to something near tabula rasa by going back to the teen characters. For those people that enjoyed the 5YL run, the argument could be made that Zero Hour was a shoe-horned event in order to get rid of the older Legion and make them a bunch of naïve teenagers again.
I won't disagree about the New52, though I suspect that there were plenty of people saying the same things immediately after Crisis - they just didn't have the costume designs to add to the fire.
The first images (the cowl and the crouched suit teaser) I did not really mind. In fact, I was pleased that they kept as much of a costume as they did.
Today's reveal, though... wow... oof... yeah.
Daylight does NOT flatter that costume.
I get that costumes get reinterpreted for different media, but, really, this is a case where the reinterpretation doesn't fit.
It isn't even all the dumb extra lines (and, yeah, they are dumb, they don't add anything to the design, they make it generally weaker, especially the ones on the cowl that make him look like Ant Man) or the chin guard. The muted color? I don't mind that at all (except they put a clashing bright red background under the lightning emblem on the chest - that is just poor decision-making right there). The wings turning into flatter lightning bolts? No problem, I can dig that.
No, my problem is entirely the idea of a speed based hero wearing what looks like loose motorcycle leathers.
I know that the old TV Show costume was built like the '89 Batman costume and impossible to move fluidly in, but it at least had the illusion of sleek and form-fitting that you expect with a runner.
I am sure that there is a reasonable design that lies somewhere closer to those Olympic runner/skater outfits that could work. The Raimi Spider-Man costume was closer to that spandex look without being just a guy in spandex. I truly think there was a better option.
M
h/t @CageNarleigh
http://www.mtv.com/news/1822224/the-flash-tv-series-is-officially-speeding-to-the-cw/
http://www.mtv.com/news/1822224/the-flash-tv-series-is-officially-speeding-to-the-cw/