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Movie News: Captain America: Civil War-- NON-SPOILER THREAD

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  • it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    I admit, I was exaggerating for humorous effect but Civil War is still a very flawed story that featured some poorly written characterizations and, despite it's infamous reputation, really has had absolutely no long-lasting effects on the MCU that I'm aware of other than a few character deaths that haven't been ret-conned yet. It was a big flashy event no different than every other big flashy event and Marvel would do well to avoid adapting it for the screen.

  • DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586
    I remember it being well-received earlier on.... and then the delays came.

    And then that cover With Spidey fighting the Goblin, Bullseye, and Venom. Which *did not* happen at all.

    Oh yeah, and the lackluster ending.
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    There was some concern when Pete revealed his identity to the whole world (think: I am Iron Man) about how they were going to get that particular genie back into the bottle. 7 years later some people may not remember the series fondly but at the time that joker was selling like mad.
  • David_D said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    I admit, I was exaggerating for humorous effect but Civil War is still a very flawed story that featured some poorly written characterizations and, despite it's infamous reputation, really has had absolutely no long-lasting effects on the MCU that I'm aware of other than a few character deaths that haven't been ret-conned yet. It was a big flashy event no different than every other big flashy event and Marvel would do well to avoid adapting it for the screen.

    I feel like Civil War gave them the chance to bring in some of the things that had been happening (and resonating) in the Ultimates, and nudge the MU in that direction, just in time for the cinematic universe to launch (and be a lot like the Ultimate line).
    Therein lies the problem for me. The 616 isn't the Ultimate line nor is it the cinematic universe. And I always tend to feel it rather contrived when Marvel tries to make me feel that all three are one and the same.

    I certainly respect your opinion and I know that many others share it. Civil War just had very little to offer to a reader like myself, especially when my favorite super hero at the time, Spider-Man, was written so wildly out of character, revealing his secret identity to the world and coming out of the story suffering the worst collateral damage.

    It may have set the bar for future events and set the tone for the MU at the time but it was a dark and foreboding tone that made me feel unwelcome and alienated me from my favorite comics publisher for years. It's also the reason that, upon my return, I went straight to books like Silver Surfer and Ms. Marvel, not Avengers.



  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318

    David_D said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    I admit, I was exaggerating for humorous effect but Civil War is still a very flawed story that featured some poorly written characterizations and, despite it's infamous reputation, really has had absolutely no long-lasting effects on the MCU that I'm aware of other than a few character deaths that haven't been ret-conned yet. It was a big flashy event no different than every other big flashy event and Marvel would do well to avoid adapting it for the screen.

    I feel like Civil War gave them the chance to bring in some of the things that had been happening (and resonating) in the Ultimates, and nudge the MU in that direction, just in time for the cinematic universe to launch (and be a lot like the Ultimate line).
    Therein lies the problem for me. The 616 isn't the Ultimate line nor is it the cinematic universe. And I always tend to feel it rather contrived when Marvel tries to make me feel that all three are one and the same.

    I certainly respect your opinion and I know that many others share it. Civil War just had very little to offer to a reader like myself, especially when my favorite super hero at the time, Spider-Man, was written so wildly out of character, revealing his secret identity to the world and coming out of the story suffering the worst collateral damage.

    It may have set the bar for future events and set the tone for the MU at the time but it was a dark and foreboding tone that made me feel unwelcome and alienated me from my favorite comics publisher for years. It's also the reason that, upon my return, I went straight to books like Silver Surfer and Ms. Marvel, not Avengers.



    and there is nothing wrong with that. I know a lot of folks (myself included) that were really turned off by that whole Dark Avengers/Norman Osborn era. So, You find something you like and spend your money on that instead.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884

    David_D said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    I admit, I was exaggerating for humorous effect but Civil War is still a very flawed story that featured some poorly written characterizations and, despite it's infamous reputation, really has had absolutely no long-lasting effects on the MCU that I'm aware of other than a few character deaths that haven't been ret-conned yet. It was a big flashy event no different than every other big flashy event and Marvel would do well to avoid adapting it for the screen.

    I feel like Civil War gave them the chance to bring in some of the things that had been happening (and resonating) in the Ultimates, and nudge the MU in that direction, just in time for the cinematic universe to launch (and be a lot like the Ultimate line).
    Therein lies the problem for me. The 616 isn't the Ultimate line nor is it the cinematic universe. And I always tend to feel it rather contrived when Marvel tries to make me feel that all three are one and the same.

    I certainly respect your opinion and I know that many others share it. Civil War just had very little to offer to a reader like myself, especially when my favorite super hero at the time, Spider-Man, was written so wildly out of character, revealing his secret identity to the world and coming out of the story suffering the worst collateral damage.

    It may have set the bar for future events and set the tone for the MU at the time but it was a dark and foreboding tone that made me feel unwelcome and alienated me from my favorite comics publisher for years. It's also the reason that, upon my return, I went straight to books like Silver Surfer and Ms. Marvel, not Avengers.



    And, of course, I wouldn't argue that it wasn't polarizing, or that there weren't a lot of readers that found it alienating, or a change for the worse. I get that, and I think that is a valid takeaway. So I am not arguing that you should have liked it, rather I was disagreeing with the idea that it has had no longterm effects. Even if most of the dead have returned, I think there are status changes and a reshuffling of who has the power in the MU that have lasted.
  • chriswchrisw Posts: 792
    Looking at the big picture, Civil War generated genuine excitement, sold really well, and it did actually alter the Marvel Universe for a few years. For a while there, we had some real tension between different groups, and I still recall the era in which we had heroes assigned to specific states, certain characters operating as fugitives, etc.

    Unfortunately, getting to that point required some really bad character writing, a flashy development for Spider-Man that they had no intention of sticking with, and its success led to the endless cycle of events we have now, where the end of the event simply sets up the status quo to be knocked down by the next event.
  • DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586
    edited October 2014
    random73 said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    There was some concern when Pete revealed his identity to the whole world (think: I am Iron Man) about how they were going to get that particular genie back into the bottle. 7 years later some people may not remember the series fondly but at the time that joker was selling like mad.
    That joker was also spoiled for me in the NY Post. (and in part due to my Dad, who was being helpful and knew I enjoyed hearing about comics in the media)
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884

    random73 said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    There was some concern when Pete revealed his identity to the whole world (think: I am Iron Man) about how they were going to get that particular genie back into the bottle. 7 years later some people may not remember the series fondly but at the time that joker was selling like mad.
    That joker was also spoiled for me in the NY Post. (and in part due to my Dad, who was beign helpful and knew I enjoyed hearing about comics in the media)
    I still haven't forgiven your dad for that.
  • DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586
    David_D said:

    random73 said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    There was some concern when Pete revealed his identity to the whole world (think: I am Iron Man) about how they were going to get that particular genie back into the bottle. 7 years later some people may not remember the series fondly but at the time that joker was selling like mad.
    That joker was also spoiled for me in the NY Post. (and in part due to my Dad, who was beign helpful and knew I enjoyed hearing about comics in the media)
    I still haven't forgiven your dad for that.
    Hey, I never forgave him for voting the Hulk in Marvel vs DC.

    He still refuses to acknowledge that the Hulk lost.

  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457

    David_D said:

    it was received like a bullet to the testicles

    That good, eh?

    I admit, I was exaggerating for humorous effect but Civil War is still a very flawed story that featured some poorly written characterizations and, despite it's infamous reputation, really has had absolutely no long-lasting effects on the MCU that I'm aware of other than a few character deaths that haven't been ret-conned yet. It was a big flashy event no different than every other big flashy event and Marvel would do well to avoid adapting it for the screen.

    I feel like Civil War gave them the chance to bring in some of the things that had been happening (and resonating) in the Ultimates, and nudge the MU in that direction, just in time for the cinematic universe to launch (and be a lot like the Ultimate line).
    I certainly respect your opinion and I know that many others share it. Civil War just had very little to offer to a reader like myself, especially when my favorite super hero at the time, Spider-Man, was written so wildly out of character, revealing his secret identity to the world and coming out of the story suffering the worst collateral damage.

    I'm not saying it was well written, but isn't that always part of Spider-man; suffering collateral damage? If there is any character (and it could just be that I have read way more Parker then other characters) who has suffered more loss because of his powers, it's Spider-man. It seems like he is always between a rock and a hard place. He might save the day, but then takes a personal hit. It just seemed a given that he was going to come out the biggest loser (i.e. losing something) of everyone in the war.

    And of course, I jumped the webbed ship once BND began, so there's that too.

    M
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    This has been an interesting month for me here. I have learned my favorite Marvel event (Secret Wars) is considered crap and my non-nostalgia favorite Marvel event (Civil War) fairs only slightly better.

    Here's why I liked Civil War; if you read the tie-ins (primarily Iron Man) the "who's side are you on" isn't as clearly cut as the core book would lead you to believe. Sure the ending felt heavily unresolved and a tad anti-climatic, but the journey has always been what interests me in general. It is the journey of a good story that will have you assessing yourself and where you stand (though the ending of Gone Baby, Gone needed to bring the journey to a head to do the self reflection.)

    Reading the core books, I thought hands down I would be with Cap. After seeing Stark's point of view, I am not so sure. Now granted, if you read Frontline, you would learn his company heavily benefited, but that wasn't his motive.

    With good guys and bad guys, it's normally easy to see where to fall. When it is two heroes (neither possessed, body-snatched, etc) opposing each other based on their morals and ideals, THAT is what I find most interesting in stories like Civil War.

    Now granted, the after effects have virtually vanished by now (I am assuming since I only read Moon Knight from Marvel), but that is basically the normal for Marvel events lately. Wrap up one to lead right into the next (which is part of why I don't read events anymore.)

    M
  • DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586
    Matt said:



    Now granted, the after effects have virtually vanished by now (I am assuming since I only read Moon Knight from Marvel), but that is basically the normal for Marvel events lately. Wrap up one to lead right into the next (which is part of why I don't read events anymore.)

    M

    The effects lasted for a bit, but registration was done away with as soon as Cap was made head of SHIELD.

  • batlawbatlaw Posts: 879
    Loved civil war. It basically got me back into marvel monthlies. Thought it was incredibly good, well done and executed. Not sure how well it can be translated into the marvel movieverse though. I'm assuming obly very slightly. Just name and general concept only.
  • batlaw said:

    Loved civil war. It basically got me back into marvel monthlies. Thought it was incredibly good, well done and executed. Not sure how well it can be translated into the marvel movieverse though. I'm assuming obly very slightly. Just name and general concept only.

    Agreed, I think it will fall somewhere between The Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron on the Marvel page to screen adaptation scale. Y'know, "inspired by" to "cool name guys!"
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    So wait. This is NOT a 1865 period peice about Captain America holding the united States together with a musket and a dream? He won't be battling Tony Stark's great-great-grandfather Jebidiah Stark with his steam powered suit of flying armour? Damn. I wanna see concept sketches for this!



    (and that, boys and girls, is how terrible movies like Wild Wild West get made with gigantic robot spiders)
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    random73 said:

    So wait. This is NOT a 1865 period peice about Captain America holding the united States together with a musket and a dream? He won't be battling Tony Stark's great-great-grandfather Jebidiah Stark with his steam powered suit of flying armour? Damn. I wanna see concept sketches for this!



    (and that, boys and girls, is how terrible movies like Wild Wild West get made with gigantic robot spiders)

    They couldn't have been blasted back in time? **cough** Armageddon: The Alien Agenda **cough**

    M
  • random73random73 Posts: 2,318
    Matt said:

    random73 said:

    So wait. This is NOT a 1865 period peice about Captain America holding the united States together with a musket and a dream? He won't be battling Tony Stark's great-great-grandfather Jebidiah Stark with his steam powered suit of flying armour? Damn. I wanna see concept sketches for this!



    (and that, boys and girls, is how terrible movies like Wild Wild West get made with gigantic robot spiders)

    They couldn't have been blasted back in time? **cough** Armageddon: The Alien Agenda **cough**

    M
    Sure, they could be blasted back in time. Maybe they take a page from Batman's death and have Cap work his way through history back to the present day. We could have Neanderthal Cap, Gladiator Cap (cameo from Russel Crowe in this one), Roman Legion Cap, French Revolution Cap, Revolutionay War Cap (costume sewn by Betsy Ross). There would be a whole Captain America Eras toy line. Kids start missing questions on history exams at school because they think Captain America defeated Emperor Nero. Fun!
  • random73 said:

    Matt said:

    random73 said:

    So wait. This is NOT a 1865 period peice about Captain America holding the united States together with a musket and a dream? He won't be battling Tony Stark's great-great-grandfather Jebidiah Stark with his steam powered suit of flying armour? Damn. I wanna see concept sketches for this!



    (and that, boys and girls, is how terrible movies like Wild Wild West get made with gigantic robot spiders)

    They couldn't have been blasted back in time? **cough** Armageddon: The Alien Agenda **cough**

    M
    Sure, they could be blasted back in time. Maybe they take a page from Batman's death and have Cap work his way through history back to the present day. We could have Neanderthal Cap, Gladiator Cap (cameo from Russel Crowe in this one), Roman Legion Cap, French Revolution Cap, Revolutionay War Cap (costume sewn by Betsy Ross). There would be a whole Captain America Eras toy line. Kids start missing questions on history exams at school because they think Captain America defeated Emperor Nero. Fun!
    I think somebody needs to go back in time and pitch this idea to Ted Wolf.
  • David_DDavid_D Posts: 3,884
    random73 said:

    Matt said:

    random73 said:

    So wait. This is NOT a 1865 period peice about Captain America holding the united States together with a musket and a dream? He won't be battling Tony Stark's great-great-grandfather Jebidiah Stark with his steam powered suit of flying armour? Damn. I wanna see concept sketches for this!



    (and that, boys and girls, is how terrible movies like Wild Wild West get made with gigantic robot spiders)

    They couldn't have been blasted back in time? **cough** Armageddon: The Alien Agenda **cough**

    M
    Sure, they could be blasted back in time. Maybe they take a page from Batman's death and have Cap work his way through history back to the present day. We could have Neanderthal Cap, Gladiator Cap (cameo from Russel Crowe in this one), Roman Legion Cap, French Revolution Cap, Revolutionay War Cap (costume sewn by Betsy Ross). There would be a whole Captain America Eras toy line. Kids start missing questions on history exams at school because they think Captain America defeated Emperor Nero. Fun!
    I would watch the shit out of that.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    random73 said:

    Matt said:

    random73 said:

    So wait. This is NOT a 1865 period peice about Captain America holding the united States together with a musket and a dream? He won't be battling Tony Stark's great-great-grandfather Jebidiah Stark with his steam powered suit of flying armour? Damn. I wanna see concept sketches for this!



    (and that, boys and girls, is how terrible movies like Wild Wild West get made with gigantic robot spiders)

    They couldn't have been blasted back in time? **cough** Armageddon: The Alien Agenda **cough**

    M
    Sure, they could be blasted back in time. Maybe they take a page from Batman's death and have Cap work his way through history back to the present day. We could have Neanderthal Cap, Gladiator Cap (cameo from Russel Crowe in this one), Roman Legion Cap, French Revolution Cap, Revolutionay War Cap (costume sewn by Betsy Ross). There would be a whole Captain America Eras toy line. Kids start missing questions on history exams at school because they think Captain America defeated Emperor Nero. Fun!
    You just reminded me why I never went back to fill in the gaps of my Batman run with Morrison's issues.

    M
  • So this big Sony leak revealed a bunch of stuff about their non-plans for Spider-Man this week, but the most interesting was that the talks with Marvel were real and that Cap 3 was the movie they were negotiating to loan him out for. Obviously that didn't happen, but with the complete lack of direction Sony seems to have for the franchise I wouldn't be surprised if they make a second attempt to intergrate.
  • Wow. Just read that this morning. That would be (no pun intended) amazing.
  • DoctorDoomDoctorDoom Posts: 2,586

    So this big Sony leak revealed a bunch of stuff about their non-plans for Spider-Man this week, but the most interesting was that the talks with Marvel were real and that Cap 3 was the movie they were negotiating to loan him out for. Obviously that didn't happen, but with the complete lack of direction Sony seems to have for the franchise I wouldn't be surprised if they make a second attempt to intergrate.

    What in the blue hell happened to the Spidey franchise?

    Then again, suppose that's a topic for another thread.
  • jaydee74jaydee74 Posts: 1,526
    I don't think Civil War needs Spider-Man. It would be cool to see Spidey in the Marvel Cinematic Universe but he's not necessarily needed. In the comics, there has already been a history between Spider-Man, Iron Man and Captain America. There is no history between these three in the cinematic universe and to make one up in one movie would feel forced. I truly believe that they can do a Civil War movie without the inclusion of Spider-Man and it still hold true to what the original material intended. If I remember correctly, Agent 13 had a bigger role in the Winter Soldier but wasn't used a much in the movie. It was still a good movie. If the Marvel Cinematic people want someone to be caught between both Iron Man and Captain America, why not use someone like Phil Coulson who has history with both characters and it would feel so much more natural. Just a suggestion.
  • MattMatt Posts: 4,457
    jaydee74 said:

    I don't think Civil War needs Spider-Man. It would be cool to see Spidey in the Marvel Cinematic Universe but he's not necessarily needed. In the comics, there has already been a history between Spider-Man, Iron Man and Captain America. There is no history between these three in the cinematic universe and to make one up in one movie would feel forced. I truly believe that they can do a Civil War movie without the inclusion of Spider-Man and it still hold true to what the original material intended. If I remember correctly, Agent 13 had a bigger role in the Winter Soldier but wasn't used a much in the movie. It was still a good movie. If the Marvel Cinematic people want someone to be caught between both Iron Man and Captain America, why not use someone like Phil Coulson who has history with both characters and it would feel so much more natural. Just a suggestion.

    I think it was @David_D‌ who suggested it, but Black Widow would fill that role well.

    M
  • bralinatorbralinator Posts: 5,967
    edited December 2014
    It would be a treat to see Spidey with Cap and Iron Man, nevertheless. If anyone could do old webhead right, it's marvel studios. Sony may really be desperate to integrate after this disaster for them.
  • chriswchrisw Posts: 792
    I'm amazed Sony is so lost as to what to do with the character. And each story that comes out makes things sound worse and worse. Sinister Six? A Black Cat movie? An Aunt May movie? A Spider-Man comedy by the team that made 21 Jump Street? I know some of those sound made up, but they're all ideas in development that have been in the press in recent weeks.

    It's like Batman or James Bond - a pretty simple formula. You'd have to work to screw it up.
  • chrisw said:

    I'm amazed Sony is so lost as to what to do with the character. And each story that comes out makes things sound worse and worse. Sinister Six? A Black Cat movie? An Aunt May movie? A Spider-Man comedy by the team that made 21 Jump Street? I know some of those sound made up, but they're all ideas in development that have been in the press in recent weeks.

    It's like Batman or James Bond - a pretty simple formula. You'd have to work to screw it up.

    I know the 21 Jump Street rumors are the ones that make people cringe the most, but I really think that's probably the only remotely good idea Sony has had, other than getting in bed with Marvel. They also made the Lego Movie, and I think at least that shows they understand how to mix fun with strong emotional beats.
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