This is a poor decision with a lack of forethought.
As a consumer, this tells me that my wants and needs are secondary to the company's wants and needs. Money is more important than consumers.
Businesses are in business to make money. I get it. But I should not realize that when I am choosing where to spend my money. Businesses make money because of their consumers. Without us they have no income. DC (WB) are pushing the envelope to see how far we will bend...I'm not bending over for them. (Will I get a kiss after they fk me?)
My wife and I bought a breast pump from amazon. Almost a year later it stopped working (we bought top of the line). I emailed amazon to inquire what my options were. They split a full refund between an amazon gift card and my credit card. All I did was ask for options. That's treating a consumer like they are the priority. Is amazon screwing people left and right? Sure. Do they value money above everything else? You know it. Are they in business to make money? Yep. But when I deal with them I do not feel like share-holders' wants and needs are tantamount to mine. What I feel is nothing. No stress; no aggravation. (HA! as I type this, my wife informed me that amazon refunded us for baby socks that were sent to our previous address. I informed amazon and the seller that ups forwarded the items to our current address prior to their email. Now I will have to contact them to TAKE my money. Very different than DC/WB.)
Anyway, back to ads. I get annoyed at ads in the middle of a book I am reading (thank you Image for placing your ads in the back of the comic or not at all) let alone in the middle of a page. I pay for content not ads. I have Verizon Fios and use my Roku to stream everything. Why? I hate ads. I wait for shows to go to disc before watching them. Why? Ads. If web pages have pop-ups that take too long, I close the page and go somewhere else. This includes youtube. I have amazon prime to avoid ads.
Convergence 8 will be the last new issue of DC I am purchasing (I got it yesterday). I will see their movies, buy their toys and accessories (I have 2 kids and 1 on the way), buy trades. DC/WB have been and will continue to get my money, just not for their monthly releases. As a corporate giant, they can afford to absorb any funding issues that arise from not having half page ads.
Shame on you DC/WB (popeStu wags his finger disapprovingly).
Walt Disney said it best, “Do what you do so well that they will want to see it again and bring their friends.”
(Thank you for your time and patience during this time of ranting)
This might just be the beginning of an experimental storytelling technique. Maybe DC will hire John Byrne next to make an entire comic using old ads from the 60's with new dialogue.
If the net result is the same, why disrupt the flow of the story? If feels like a static version of a pop-up or placing a commercial mid scene of a movie. For the price we pay per issue, any changes to the format aught to benefit us and the medium. Somehow this feels like we are losing out.
I want to say, "just gives me more money to spend on other, more worthy titles," but that would be lying. I think the only regular DC book I get is Batman. And that's wearing thin too.
Havnt seen this myself yet but then at the moment I'm only dipping my toes back in DCs pool with convergence. This though as it appears is something I personally will not, cannot tolerate. Just the way I am now. If it's a mistake or some kind of one off, that's one thing, but if it's to be the new norm or common place... I'm fu€¥ing done. My senses and life are bombarded beyond belief with such aggravating nonsense.
I imagine the meeting went something like this: DC Exec. 1: We need to make more money. We're not as profitable as we could be.
DC Exec. 2: Well, we could try telling compelling stories with great art and build the fanbase so they stay loyal to our brand and continue to buy our books? Maybe even market to a younger audience so that in another ten years we will continue to have that loyal fanbase.
DC Exec. 1: I'm planning on retiring soon, so I want a plan with more immediate results. We can't wait that long. Let's just add more advertising. We don't need to sell the books to an audience, we can just sell ad space.
DC Exec. 2: That's why you're in charge. Brilliant!
I imagine the meeting went something like this: DC Exec. 1: We need to make more money. We're not as profitable as we could be.
DC Exec. 2: Well, we could try telling compelling stories with great art and build the fanbase so they stay loyal to our brand and continue to buy our books? Maybe even market to a younger audience so that in another ten years we will continue to have that loyal fanbase.
DC Exec. 1: I'm planning on retiring soon, so I want a plan with more immediate results. We can't wait that long. Let's just add more advertising. We don't need to sell the books to an audience, we can just sell ad space.
DC Exec. 2: That's why you're in charge. Brilliant!
I was going to "LOL" this and then I thought about it for a moment and realized that despite your humorous delivery this is probably an accurate representation of the real events that transpired.
@brydeemer I think perhaps you should add a "soul-crushingly epiphanous" button...
I imagine the meeting went something like this: DC Exec. 1: We need to make more money. We're not as profitable as we could be.
DC Exec. 2: Well, we could try telling compelling stories with great art and build the fanbase so they stay loyal to our brand and continue to buy our books? Maybe even market to a younger audience so that in another ten years we will continue to have that loyal fanbase.
DC Exec. 1: I'm planning on retiring soon, so I want a plan with more immediate results. We can't wait that long. Let's just add more advertising. We don't need to sell the books to an audience, we can just sell ad space.
DC Exec. 2: That's why you're in charge. Brilliant!
I imagine the meeting went something like this: DC Exec. 1: We need to make more money. We're not as profitable as we could be.
DC Exec. 2: Well, we could try telling compelling stories with great art and build the fanbase so they stay loyal to our brand and continue to buy our books? Maybe even market to a younger audience so that in another ten years we will continue to have that loyal fanbase.
DC Exec. 1: I'm planning on retiring soon, so I want a plan with more immediate results. We can't wait that long. Let's just add more advertising. We don't need to sell the books to an audience, we can just sell ad space.
DC Exec. 2: That's why you're in charge. Brilliant!
I was going to "LOL" this and then I thought about it for a moment and realized that despite your humorous delivery this is probably an accurate representation of the real events that transpired.
@brydeemer I think perhaps you should add a "soul-crushingly epiphanous" button...
I hear you. I was afraid that it was going to hit too close to the truth and not be funny.
I imagine the meeting went something like this: DC Exec. 1: We need to make more money. We're not as profitable as we could be.
DC Exec. 2: Well, we could try telling compelling stories with great art and build the fanbase so they stay loyal to our brand and continue to buy our books? Maybe even market to a younger audience so that in another ten years we will continue to have that loyal fanbase.
DC Exec. 1: I'm planning on retiring soon, so I want a plan with more immediate results. We can't wait that long. Let's just add more advertising. We don't need to sell the books to an audience, we can just sell ad space.
DC Exec. 2: That's why you're in charge. Brilliant!
Not to upset the apple cart here, but I do get a little tired of everyone implying DC has no talented artists and no compelling stories. I think it's insulting to all the creators to say that none have great artwork or compelling stories. Also, they are trying to capture new, young readers, that was (in my opinion) the whole point of New 52. Also, they are trying new things like Batgirl which is specifically designed for young teenage girls in mind.
For the ads I have not seen one personally so I won't comment until I actually see one mid-story. But people are mentioned not seeing ads in TV or movies by buying DVDs, but there are ads in those: product placement. Ever watch Seinfeld? They plug stuff all the time like candy bars for instance. I think ads are just a part of our life, look at professional stadiums for sports, heck even jerseys are getting ads. Just a part of our culter anymore (for better or worse).
I agree that the n52 was to try to capture new readers. However, I questions a business model that alienates previous customers for new ones. A business' bread and butter are repeat customers. People buy from people they know or like (or both).
The idea DC is pushing after Convergence seems more appropriate for old and new readers. Allowing for different versions of characters in different situations is nice.
Continuity is important. I want Batman to be a rich, James-Bond-type-guy whose parents were killed. Next issues I expect the same thing. If he is a Ronin in feudal Japan next month, I might wonder what happened (actually, I'd like that but I digress). What I do not worry about is Batman missing the scar on his chin that was referenced by Denny O'Neil in his run. That's not a priority for me.
Regarding the ads...just being part of the culture is no reason to accept it. Racism and sexism were a part of the culture. Ok, a bit extreme...
Remember when Netflix tried to split their DVD and streaming services? (wikster ring any bells?) Consumers made themselves heard and that poor idea went away. Money talks and BS walks (unless the BS has more money). How would readers react if ads were randomly placed within novels?
Not to upset the apple cart here, but I do get a little tired of everyone implying DC has no talented artists and no compelling stories. I think it's insulting to all the creators to say that none have great artwork or compelling stories.
DC has a lot of good, dependable artists, but not a lot of great monthly (or mostly monthly) artists. On the whole, I think Marvel and Image (and probably even Dark Horse) have a larger supply of top-end artists doing regular work. Yes, there is talent at DC, but there is a large gap between them and the competition.
Regarding the half-page ads, there is some reporting on background that, at the moment, the Twix campaign in June is the only one of these that DC has booked. And it could be that the pushback against it, if it registered, will be enough to keep this from happening again.
I do think that, in doing this, DC underestimated (or, is testing) whether readers will allow this kind of intrusion onto the content page, or whether we don't care. I think that they may be forgetting that the reason why we, the subculture that buys new paper comics, are willing to pay such high prices for this content because what we are paying for, and game for, is a luxury experience. A premium experience. If you are paying $3 for 20 story pages (or some variation of 8 or 10 more pages for $4, or whatever it is), that already has the flow disrupted by ad pages, then we are probably already pushed as far as we're going to go. We accept that price, and the amount of ads already in, because we love being immersed in the experience of those 20 pages enough to still be up for it.
So, don't f**k with those pages. You know what I mean?
But, I am guessing, they got the message and this sort of campaign won't recur anytime soon.
I will say, though, in defense of their thinking this would fly with readers, they and Marvel have already succeeded in getting us to accept banner ads on the covers. Sure, those have always been (unless I am forgetting) for related products (TV show premieres, movie releases, maybe video games? I forget.) So, they took a bite out of the cover, and we said nothing. So, then they came for the story pages. Because, why not?
And, while this is a change of mediums, over the last decade or so, consumers have accepted more and more intrusion and nonsense in the lower third of the broadcast screen during the content. So that sort of thing probably emboldened them, too.
By the time I started reading comics in 1974, this sort of thing had mostly stopped, but only a few years before that it was common to see a half-page or a third-page ad. When that story was reprinted, the publisher had to figure out how to fill that space, and I suppose DC will be faced with that same problem when they reprint this material. To me, it seems more like a throwback to the old times. These are magazines we are talking about; the content of a comic book or Esquire or Sports Illustrated or The New York Times has always been interrupted by the commercial needs of the medium, and content and advertising have always coexisted.
By the time I started reading comics in 1974, this sort of thing had mostly stopped, but only a few years before that it was common to see a half-page or a third-page ad. When that story was reprinted, the publisher had to figure out how to fill that space, and I suppose DC will be faced with that same problem when they reprint this material. To me, it seems more like a throwback to the old times. These are magazines we are talking about; the content of a comic book or Esquire or Sports Illustrated or The New York Times has always been interrupted by the commercial needs of the medium, and content and advertising have always coexisted.
Sure. But we are decades into an era of a comic page being designed and executed as a page. (Not to mention we are a long ways in to the era of full-bleed pages, so we are used to the entire page being the canvas, rather than the narrative always being framed by the borders).
And given how few content pages we get per issue at that price vs. the amount of content we get in a magazine or newspaper, I don't think we as comic readers are asking too much for having a separation between content pages and ad pages.
Again, because at the ratio of content to ads, we are paying a premium price for those pages. So I think it is fair, in an age of increasing prices and decreasing content page count, to expect them to not also intrude on the enjoyment of those pages.
I don't disagree that it looks hideous, but my question is this: has nobody made the connection that this ad was created with Twix in mind--long given over to focusing on the two candy bars in each package--and seems to play on its distinct characteristic of duality? To that end, it seems like an ad campaign that wouldn't necessarily translate well to other products. Not that it would be impossible, just not as specifically suited.
(and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I just haven't seen it during my cursory reading on the topic)
I don't disagree that it looks hideous, but my question is this: has nobody made the connection that this ad was created with Twix in mind--long given over to focusing on the two candy bars in each package--and seems to play on its distinct characteristic of duality? To that end, it seems like an ad campaign that wouldn't necessarily translate well to other products. Not that it would be impossible, just not as specifically suited.
(and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I just haven't seen it during my cursory reading on the topic)
-chris
Yes-- I agree that it is a good sign that this might be a one-off.
I'm pro this ad. It means we get more Pages right? Plus we are always talking about how we read comics in 15 minutes, and this will have to slow us down. Kudos to DC for solving 3 problems with one Nick Lachey.
I'm pro this ad. It means we get more Pages right? Plus we are always talking about how we read comics in 15 minutes, and this will have to slow us down. Kudos to DC for solving 3 problems with one Nick Lachey.
If they want to add another pair of full page ads and drop the cover price back to $2.50, I'm all for it. Make that bank DC and pass it along to the readers.
I'm pro this ad. It means we get more Pages right? Plus we are always talking about how we read comics in 15 minutes, and this will have to slow us down. Kudos to DC for solving 3 problems with one Nick Lachey.
If they want to add another pair of full page ads and drop the cover price back to $2.50, I'm all for it. Make that bank DC and pass it along to the readers.
That doesn't reall have the same effect I skip full page ads in comics and magazines without skipping a beat. A half page ad will have to slow down my reading some. I've never had to deal with thesei n comics
Comments
As a consumer, this tells me that my wants and needs are secondary to the company's wants and needs. Money is more important than consumers.
Businesses are in business to make money. I get it. But I should not realize that when I am choosing where to spend my money. Businesses make money because of their consumers. Without us they have no income. DC (WB) are pushing the envelope to see how far we will bend...I'm not bending over for them. (Will I get a kiss after they fk me?)
My wife and I bought a breast pump from amazon. Almost a year later it stopped working (we bought top of the line). I emailed amazon to inquire what my options were. They split a full refund between an amazon gift card and my credit card. All I did was ask for options. That's treating a consumer like they are the priority. Is amazon screwing people left and right? Sure. Do they value money above everything else? You know it. Are they in business to make money? Yep. But when I deal with them I do not feel like share-holders' wants and needs are tantamount to mine. What I feel is nothing. No stress; no aggravation. (HA! as I type this, my wife informed me that amazon refunded us for baby socks that were sent to our previous address. I informed amazon and the seller that ups forwarded the items to our current address prior to their email. Now I will have to contact them to TAKE my money. Very different than DC/WB.)
Anyway, back to ads. I get annoyed at ads in the middle of a book I am reading (thank you Image for placing your ads in the back of the comic or not at all) let alone in the middle of a page. I pay for content not ads. I have Verizon Fios and use my Roku to stream everything. Why? I hate ads. I wait for shows to go to disc before watching them. Why? Ads. If web pages have pop-ups that take too long, I close the page and go somewhere else. This includes youtube. I have amazon prime to avoid ads.
Convergence 8 will be the last new issue of DC I am purchasing (I got it yesterday). I will see their movies, buy their toys and accessories (I have 2 kids and 1 on the way), buy trades. DC/WB have been and will continue to get my money, just not for their monthly releases. As a corporate giant, they can afford to absorb any funding issues that arise from not having half page ads.
Shame on you DC/WB (popeStu wags his finger disapprovingly).
Walt Disney said it best, “Do what you do so well that they will want to see it again and bring their friends.”
(Thank you for your time and patience during this time of ranting)
DC Exec. 1: We need to make more money. We're not as profitable as we could be.
DC Exec. 2: Well, we could try telling compelling stories with great art and build the fanbase so they stay loyal to our brand and continue to buy our books? Maybe even market to a younger audience so that in another ten years we will continue to have that loyal fanbase.
DC Exec. 1: I'm planning on retiring soon, so I want a plan with more immediate results. We can't wait that long. Let's just add more advertising. We don't need to sell the books to an audience, we can just sell ad space.
DC Exec. 2: That's why you're in charge. Brilliant!
@brydeemer I think perhaps you should add a "soul-crushingly epiphanous" button...
For the ads I have not seen one personally so I won't comment until I actually see one mid-story. But people are mentioned not seeing ads in TV or movies by buying DVDs, but there are ads in those: product placement. Ever watch Seinfeld? They plug stuff all the time like candy bars for instance. I think ads are just a part of our life, look at professional stadiums for sports, heck even jerseys are getting ads. Just a part of our culter anymore (for better or worse).
The idea DC is pushing after Convergence seems more appropriate for old and new readers. Allowing for different versions of characters in different situations is nice.
Continuity is important. I want Batman to be a rich, James-Bond-type-guy whose parents were killed. Next issues I expect the same thing. If he is a Ronin in feudal Japan next month, I might wonder what happened (actually, I'd like that but I digress). What I do not worry about is Batman missing the scar on his chin that was referenced by Denny O'Neil in his run. That's not a priority for me.
Regarding the ads...just being part of the culture is no reason to accept it. Racism and sexism were a part of the culture. Ok, a bit extreme...
Remember when Netflix tried to split their DVD and streaming services? (wikster ring any bells?) Consumers made themselves heard and that poor idea went away. Money talks and BS walks (unless the BS has more money). How would readers react if ads were randomly placed within novels?
I do think that, in doing this, DC underestimated (or, is testing) whether readers will allow this kind of intrusion onto the content page, or whether we don't care. I think that they may be forgetting that the reason why we, the subculture that buys new paper comics, are willing to pay such high prices for this content because what we are paying for, and game for, is a luxury experience. A premium experience. If you are paying $3 for 20 story pages (or some variation of 8 or 10 more pages for $4, or whatever it is), that already has the flow disrupted by ad pages, then we are probably already pushed as far as we're going to go. We accept that price, and the amount of ads already in, because we love being immersed in the experience of those 20 pages enough to still be up for it.
So, don't f**k with those pages. You know what I mean?
But, I am guessing, they got the message and this sort of campaign won't recur anytime soon.
I will say, though, in defense of their thinking this would fly with readers, they and Marvel have already succeeded in getting us to accept banner ads on the covers. Sure, those have always been (unless I am forgetting) for related products (TV show premieres, movie releases, maybe video games? I forget.) So, they took a bite out of the cover, and we said nothing. So, then they came for the story pages. Because, why not?
And, while this is a change of mediums, over the last decade or so, consumers have accepted more and more intrusion and nonsense in the lower third of the broadcast screen during the content. So that sort of thing probably emboldened them, too.
And given how few content pages we get per issue at that price vs. the amount of content we get in a magazine or newspaper, I don't think we as comic readers are asking too much for having a separation between content pages and ad pages.
Again, because at the ratio of content to ads, we are paying a premium price for those pages. So I think it is fair, in an age of increasing prices and decreasing content page count, to expect them to not also intrude on the enjoyment of those pages.
(and I apologize if this has been brought up before, but I just haven't seen it during my cursory reading on the topic)
-chris
As long as the ads don't feature extra arms growing out of people's stomachs, because that was gross.
...UNLESS those ads show up in the pages of a trade or collection.