Again, I'm not saying that Spencer is not writing a Cap that isn't political. I'm saying he is continuing a tradition from the very creation of the character of tackling hot button issues. (Remember, Captain America Comics #1 saw print months before the bombing of Pearl Harbor. So depicting an American service member punching out Hitler was a political statement on the issue- contentious and divisive at the time- of whether or not the US should join the war). And does Spencer have outspoken political opinions? Yes. So did Kirby and Simon.
Non-sequitur alert. What I said was Cap didn't touch on "hot-button domestic issues," not foreign entanglements and the like. Contrary to your implication, most of the country wasn't divided on how bad Hitler was.
Then this is clearly the comic for you, son. And while I don't eat-up PC ret-cons like some, as for the Falcon's pimp-history, you must have missed Black Panther (Marvel Knights) #17. Falc's still being referred to as a former pimp.
But if you feel the need to gloat for some reason, who am I to stop you?
@bralinator there was a difference in '41 between thinking Hitler was bad, and suggesting (and portraying, via their character) that he US should be in the fight.
I know there wasn't Twitter in '41, but if Kirby and Simon's own stories are to be believed, what they published was considered provocative enough for some (admittedly extreme) people to show up to the Timely offices looking to fight the people that made that Captain America comic.
I'm not saying what Simon and Kirby did was radical or that far out of the mainstream. But rather that people making Cap comics have told political stories from the start. And that is always going to alienate some readers. Clearly you don't like the current issue. Some didn't like that Hitler issue. So it goes.
Again @David_D - I was referring to hot button domestic issues, and said so in my post. You appear to regularly champion for diversity on these forums from what I can tell, but much less so when I express lament at a lack of my beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings being sincerely expressed in a medium I'm so fond of. That's a diversity problem that I see and it's colorblind. I'll continue to point it out with or without majority support even if some on here seek to marginalize it or ridicule it.
Again @David_D - I was referring to hot button domestic issues, and said so in my post. You appear to regularly champion for diversity on these forums from what I can tell, but much less so when I express lament at a lack of my beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings being sincerely expressed in a medium I'm so fond of. That's a diversity problem that I see and it's colorblind. I'll continue to point it out with or without majority support even if some on here seek to marginalize it or ridicule it.
Did you even read or intend to read this comic that you lament is not representing you? Did you have it pre-ordered and now regret it will be in your next shipment? Or, like many other of these discussions, is this all about a comic you were never going to read anyway?
Again @David_D - I was referring to hot button domestic issues, and said so in my post. You appear to regularly champion for diversity on these forums from what I can tell, but much less so when I express lament at a lack of my beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings being sincerely expressed in a medium I'm so fond of. That's a diversity problem that I see and it's colorblind. I'll continue to point it out with or without majority support even if some on here seek to marginalize it or ridicule it.
Did you even read or intend to read this comic that you lament is not representing you? Did you have it pre-ordered and now regret it will be in your next shipment? Or, like many other of these discussions, is this all about a comic you were never going to read anyway?
I think you have a point you're trying to make so I will play along.
No. Yes. Not really.
Thanks for trying to marginalize my point. Two can play at that.
Again @David_D - I was referring to hot button domestic issues, and said so in my post. You appear to regularly champion for diversity on these forums from what I can tell, but much less so when I express lament at a lack of my beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings being sincerely expressed in a medium I'm so fond of. That's a diversity problem that I see and it's colorblind. I'll continue to point it out with or without majority support even if some on here seek to marginalize it or ridicule it.
Did you even read or intend to read this comic that you lament is not representing you? Did you have it pre-ordered and now regret it will be in your next shipment? Or, like many other of these discussions, is this all about a comic you were never going to read anyway?
I think you have a point you're trying to make so I will play along.
No. Yes. Not really.
Thanks for trying to marginalize my point. Two can play at that.
I am not trying to marginalized the point. Just clarifying that this was the discussion to you prompted by posting some negative commentary (from a not very informed source, in my opinion) about a comic that you don't have much stake in anyway. And from that tried to show us the harm done by a comic you weren't planning on reading.
So, I'm not sure what discussion you were hoping to have. But I am not surprised that I and others tried to bring some more context to it from our own reading history. Something the people making that video couldn't be bothered to do.
I'm not surprised either @David_D and trying to or not, that is the effect.
My own reading history is enough to continue to make my own points. The video was merely a discussion starter, certainly not the final word. Conceding any of the points I've made however is something you also not bothered to do, which is why we're now "beating a dead horse."
But I think the overall theme is that it usually seems to conservatives that diversity and all inclusiveness only goes in one direction. If this Cap issue was reversed, and some group enforcing immigration rules were written as the "heroes" of the story, the book would get slammed from most of the comics media and a lot of the fans with calls for the writers job.
I do not necessarily disagree with his view and share it to some extent. I somewhat expect a liberal viewpoint to be espoused in comics. I think it is the liberal worldview of the publishers, and writers coming out. If I have a problem with it, I just stop reading that book.
I differ from his view in that I am unsure how debating it on a forum that is probably mostly liberal minded will help. It just leads to accusations from both sides and little advancement of the issue. Everyone's minds appear to already be made up on most domestic hot button issues before the conversation starts.
Again...my margin of error for anything I said here is between 0 and 100%
I am unsure how debating it on a forum that is probably mostly liberal minded will help. It just leads to accusations from both sides and little advancement of the issue. Everyone's minds appear to already be made up on most domestic hot button issues before the conversation starts.
Yep. The horse is dead. I still felt it was worth mentioning here since I doubted anyone else would bring it up. I don't mind the debate, even when I'm in the minority.
"You appear to regularly champion for diversity on these forums from what I can tell, but much less so when I express lament at a lack of my beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings being sincerely expressed in a medium I'm so fond of"
"But I think the overall theme is that it usually seems to conservatives that diversity and all inclusiveness only goes in one direction."
Frankly, I'm much more on the side of a Captain America that stands with the persecuted over those with a martyr syndrome, to be blunt. Because there's a real difference between those fighting to be treated as equals, and those that feel their privilege is being chipped away.
1) fighting to be treated as equals ≠ sneaking into this country illegally
2) being upset when a comic writer equates fondness for the US Constitution to racism ≠ feeling one's "privilege" is being chipped away (whatever that implies)
You said championing diversity of one's 'beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings'. Those are your words about David and the forum. That's why I quoted them and the follow up. I can't help if you want to keep moving the goal post by trying to steer it to your first comments.
You said championing diversity of one's 'beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings'. Those are your words about David and the forum. That's why I quoted them and the follow up. I can't help if you want to keep moving the goal post by trying to steer it to your first comments.
I do not understand how this relates to your post about how you prefer Cap to stand with the persecuted and the posts afterward.
Unless you meant that you championing your own beliefs on the subject.
Anyone read the new Iton Man yet? I get it in my next shipment. I know Dr. Strange has been getting all the hype, but I was curious about this one, too.
I think it would be fair to say that that conservative writers (and probably conservative readers) would be the minority in the comic industry as a whole.
The big 2 seem to want and encourge books to explore more liberal minded ideas (to a degree) to appeal to what "may" be the established customer base and to reach out to diverse groups of people who may have not have been represented by the industry in the past.
I do not think that the intention is blantantly "Cap is fighting Conservatives." It is a case of them being a liberal minded company who mostly hires liberal minded writers who given the right opportunity are going to espouse their worldview. They hope this appeals to what they think is their current liberal minded audience and draws in other liberal groups because they think that is an untapped market.
The margin of error for my comments ranges from 0 to 100%
Can they do that without making the people they disagree with into evil racist villains? Despite what @RepoMan believes those who are against illegal immigration aren't automatically card carrying members of the Nazi party. No group should be consistently portrayed as evil, hateful, etc..despite the political views the majority of the readership hold.
I tend to avoid when celebrities (of any caliber) insert their own political broadness into their works; even when I agree with it. I think you alienate part of the fanbase. If it's the NFL, they can take a chance. In an industry where there's probably more a down trend in readers, I'm not certain those alienations would be worth it.
It's one of the reasons I didn't watch the Daily Show or Colbert's show.
I'd actually be more interesting in someone like Spencer writing stories from the opposite perspective of their views in an objective way. It'd prove to be more of a challenge for the writer.
shouldn't the REAL captain america defeat the sons of serpent AND then tell the illegals to turn around and leave the country?
There is no real Captain America. Captain America is a fictional character. Sam Wilson does happen to currently fill the uniform and role in the comics, and is doing a damn fine job of it so far.
I find it very fitting that a current Cap story is stirring up the illegal immigration controversy when Steve Rogers’ backstory had him growing up as the son of Irish immigrants in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, which at the time was made up of a huge population of lower-class immigrants and first-generation immigrants (primarily Irish, Italian, German, Polish, Ukranian, and Jewish).
And, hey, Radioactive Spider-Gwen #1 picked up right where the first series left off. I'm still enjoying it, and I particularly liked the OHOTMU-style entry in the back of the book which, as well as being a nice throwback, also served as a great way to get new readers caught up with everything that's happened so far.
Steve Rogers’ backstory had him growing up as the son of Irish immigrants in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, which at the time was made up of a huge population of lower-class immigrants and first-generation immigrants (primarily Irish, Italian, German, Polish, Ukranian, and Jewish).
Hmm... Did those immigrant parents sneak in through Ellis Island illegally and balk at assimilation?
Oh, and I'm looking forward to checking out the wrap up to Weirdworld and Journey to Star Wars the Force Awakens Shattered Empire this week.
r mundane real world issues like illegal immigration even worth tackling in a universe where Reed Richards can cure world hunger?
i understand having homo sexual superheros and heroes of color... but not sure tackling the deficit or tax system or universal healthcare makes much sense...
r mundane real world issues like illegal immigration even worth tackling in a universe where Reed Richards can cure world hunger?
i understand having homo sexual superheros and heroes of color... but not sure tackling the deficit or tax system or universal healthcare makes much sense...
I recall that notion being an issue with Nolan's Batman movies.
Steve Rogers’ backstory had him growing up as the son of Irish immigrants in the Lower East Side of Manhattan, which at the time was made up of a huge population of lower-class immigrants and first-generation immigrants (primarily Irish, Italian, German, Polish, Ukranian, and Jewish).
Hmm... Did those immigrant parents sneak in through Ellis Island illegally and balk at assimilation?
I offered no opinions on illegal immigration other than it was a fitting topic for the character given the character's background, and I am not here to discuss politics.
I will probably pick up the Weirdworld tpb when it comes out though.
Comments
But if you feel the need to gloat for some reason, who am I to stop you?
I know there wasn't Twitter in '41, but if Kirby and Simon's own stories are to be believed, what they published was considered provocative enough for some (admittedly extreme) people to show up to the Timely offices looking to fight the people that made that Captain America comic.
I'm not saying what Simon and Kirby did was radical or that far out of the mainstream. But rather that people making Cap comics have told political stories from the start. And that is always going to alienate some readers. Clearly you don't like the current issue. Some didn't like that Hitler issue. So it goes.
No.
Yes.
Not really.
Thanks for trying to marginalize my point. Two can play at that.
So, I'm not sure what discussion you were hoping to have. But I am not surprised that I and others tried to bring some more context to it from our own reading history. Something the people making that video couldn't be bothered to do.
My own reading history is enough to continue to make my own points. The video was merely a discussion starter, certainly not the final word. Conceding any of the points I've made however is something you also not bothered to do, which is why we're now "beating a dead horse."
But I think the overall theme is that it usually seems to conservatives that diversity and all inclusiveness only goes in one direction. If this Cap issue was reversed, and some group enforcing immigration rules were written as the "heroes" of the story, the book would get slammed from most of the comics media and a lot of the fans with calls for the writers job.
I do not necessarily disagree with his view and share it to some extent. I somewhat expect a liberal viewpoint to be espoused in comics. I think it is the liberal worldview of the publishers, and writers coming out. If I have a problem with it, I just stop reading that book.
I differ from his view in that I am unsure how debating it on a forum that is probably mostly liberal minded will help. It just leads to accusations from both sides and little advancement of the issue. Everyone's minds appear to already be made up on most domestic hot button issues before the conversation starts.
Again...my margin of error for anything I said here is between 0 and 100%
Thanks for your salient point @CaptShazam
"But I think the overall theme is that it usually seems to conservatives that diversity and all inclusiveness only goes in one direction."
Frankly, I'm much more on the side of a Captain America that stands with the persecuted over those with a martyr syndrome, to be blunt. Because there's a real difference between those fighting to be treated as equals, and those that feel their privilege is being chipped away.
1) fighting to be treated as equals ≠ sneaking into this country illegally
2) being upset when a comic writer equates fondness for the US Constitution to racism
≠ feeling one's "privilege" is being chipped away (whatever that implies)
but, thanks for your helpful input!
You said championing diversity of one's 'beliefs, ideals, faith, or feelings'. Those are your words about David and the forum. That's why I quoted them and the follow up. I can't help if you want to keep moving the goal post by trying to steer it to your first comments.
Unless you meant that you championing your own beliefs on the subject.
It always reminds me of this:
It's one of the reasons I didn't watch the Daily Show or Colbert's show.
I'd actually be more interesting in someone like Spencer writing stories from the opposite perspective of their views in an objective way. It'd prove to be more of a challenge for the writer.
M
And, hey, Radioactive Spider-Gwen #1 picked up right where the first series left off. I'm still enjoying it, and I particularly liked the OHOTMU-style entry in the back of the book which, as well as being a nice throwback, also served as a great way to get new readers caught up with everything that's happened so far.
Oh, and I'm looking forward to checking out the wrap up to Weirdworld and Journey to Star Wars the Force Awakens Shattered Empire this week.
i understand having homo sexual superheros and heroes of color... but not sure tackling the deficit or tax system or universal healthcare makes much sense...
a superhero war between the US and China and Russia
or a superhero war between the US and Muslim
would be awesome!!!
bring this concept back!!
M
I will probably pick up the Weirdworld tpb when it comes out though.