You guys wasted all that time and brain power on that conversation, when I could be learning about your CGS @1600 Top 5 comics presidents.
Come on guys I'm not always the sharpest, but this is too good to pass up. We will never get a better time to list them: episode 1600 and a crazy election year filled with multiple candidates (on both sides) that could be in the comic books.
Okay, so you're commenting out of pure conjecture. Got it.
Nice try.
Here' my opening comment again:
The point is that one of the great things about CGS was the oft stated keep it positive attitude. I've not listened to the episode yet, but there's definitely been a more cynical streak recently. Largely, that's been aligned with the DC changes, but I don't think that it's been exclusive to DC.
That would be an observation of a past trend and a lamentation of something that I see as having been lost. @David_D s comment above leaves me with a level of hope that it's being found again.
Regardless, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons I dropped Comic Timing.
I think that there's a difference between actively slagging and just bypassing it completely. One can keep a positive tone by simply omitting mention of the negative. If one keeps the topic on what one is enjoying, it becomes pretty clear, by omission what one is either not enjoying or not drawn toward. That's hardly a participation trophy.
That said, there's definitely an attaboy earned for recognizing that something isn't working and trying to fix it.
I want the opinions of the geeks on what thy predict the outcome will be or what their take is on it. I prefer not to have to make conclusions by a lack of response. If their take is negative, I still welcome it. Many of the geeks have poo-pood books I enjoyed and heralded books I thought sucked, quite frankly. It doesn't bother me. I enjoy, acknowledge, and welcome the discussion.
So your preference is that they engage in the same speculative fanwank as you've regularly done with FF, Xmen etc?
I'd rather hear them talk about what they've read and their opinions on that rather than speaking from an uninformed or speculative opinion.
So are you actively slagging this episode before you actually listen to it or is this just speculative fanwank, @hauberk?
You guys wasted all that time and brain power on that conversation, when I could be learning about your CGS @1600 Top 5 comics presidents.
Come on guys I'm not always the sharpest, but this is too good to pass up. We will never get a better time to list them: episode 1600 and a crazy election year filled with multiple candidates (on both sides) that could be in the comic books.
I'd have to think long and hard on this one. Nixon is the only one that immediately pops out by name. I can think of a few others, but President Luthor and the other obvious analog presidents are the only ones I could name. Maybe the President (showed up in a during the Cursed Earth storyline in 2000AD) that caused the Judges to rise to power?
I think that there's a difference between actively slagging and just bypassing it completely. One can keep a positive tone by simply omitting mention of the negative. If one keeps the topic on what one is enjoying, it becomes pretty clear, by omission what one is either not enjoying or not drawn toward. That's hardly a participation trophy.
That said, there's definitely an attaboy earned for recognizing that something isn't working and trying to fix it.
I want the opinions of the geeks on what thy predict the outcome will be or what their take is on it. I prefer not to have to make conclusions by a lack of response. If their take is negative, I still welcome it. Many of the geeks have poo-pood books I enjoyed and heralded books I thought sucked, quite frankly. It doesn't bother me. I enjoy, acknowledge, and welcome the discussion.
So your preference is that they engage in the same speculative fanwank as you've regularly done with FF, Xmen etc?
I'd rather hear them talk about what they've read and their opinions on that rather than speaking from an uninformed or speculative opinion.
So are you actively slagging this episode before you actually listen to it or is this just speculative fanwank, @hauberk?
See the post immediately above.
I've been pretty clear from the get-go that I hadn't (and still haven't - in the middle of a StarTalk) listened to this episode. Instead, I was observing a recent history of cynicism and general apathy.
I've been pretty clear from the get-go that I hadn't (and still haven't - in the middle of a StarTalk) listened to this episode. Instead, I was observing a recent history of cynicism and general apathy.
Do you not see the irony of bemoaning a few of the geeks' negative comments (which are based off of their recent history, opinion, and speculation) about Rebirth/DC's decisions lately when you are negatively complaining about this episode's contents based solely off of rumor, speculation, and recent history of CGS before actually listening the the episode in question?
Okay, so you're commenting out of pure conjecture. Got it.
Nice try.
Here' my opening comment again:
The point is that one of the great things about CGS was the oft stated keep it positive attitude. I've not listened to the episode yet, but there's definitely been a more cynical streak recently. Largely, that's been aligned with the DC changes, but I don't think that it's been exclusive to DC.
That would be an observation of a past trend and a lamentation of something that I see as having been lost. @David_D s comment above leaves me with a level of hope that it's being found again.
Regardless, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons I dropped Comic Timing.
All good. No skin off my back. Listen to what you want to listen to. Not every show is going to be for every person, mine included. And even with the bolded pointed out, which I apologize for missing in the initial thread, I still feel like we're picking at theoretical ticks here. CGS still have tons of positive to address, day in and day out. :)
Bringing it back to actually talking about the episode on an episode talkback thread, @ShaneKelly and @Adam_Murdough mentioned the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer of Suicide Squad, and how it felt like it was a lot more fun than the material leading up to Batman v Superman. Turns out they noticed, as reshoots are now taking place to try and add more levity to the movie, and the DCMU in general. Is that the acronym we should be using for DC Movie Universe by the way? Don't know if there's a consensus on that.
Bringing it back to actually talking about the episode on an episode talkback thread, @ShaneKelly and @Adam_Murdough mentioned the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer of Suicide Squad, and how it felt like it was a lot more fun than the material leading up to Batman v Superman. Turns out they noticed, as reshoots are now taking place to try and add more levity to the movie, and the DCMU in general. Is that the acronym we should be using for DC Movie Universe by the way? Don't know if there's a consensus on that.
**TRIGGER WARNING FOR DC LOYALISTS**
This is further indication that DC may be in over their heads with these film properties. They're either playing catch-up to FOX (Deadpool's success created a need for Snyder to announce an R-rated cut for BvS), or they're responding to negative reviews about the gloominess of BvS and realizing people were led to believe that Suicide Squad was going to be DC's answer to GotG or Ant-Man, but it actually wasn't intended to be - in spite of that awesome Bohemian Rhapsody trailer. Hopefully they can fix it in time, but I was initially less interested in SS than in BvS.
I think DC is clearly trying to catch up to Marvel MCU proper by not taking the time to organically build their Justice League characters with origin stories (ala First Avenger, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, etc.) and it doesn't bode well for these upcoming DC movies. They need a "hit" with both audiences AND critics.
Once the geeks started going book by book through the solicits the negativity was at a much lower level. As I stated in my original post, the thing that really bothered me was Chris saying that the creators just don't care so just like Dani he doesn't care either. That specific statement was one that really bothered me. Having gone back and listened to what Chris said before Dani spoke, he specifically states that he is "cautious", seems far enough. He says he is cynical of both the big two at this point. Also understandable, but then he goes on to say he will reserve judgement about Rebirth. Then Dani talks about how she doesn't care and Chris goes on a mini rant which seems like anything, but reserving judgement. This exchange SPECIFICALLY is why I wrote my original post. I admitted that perhaps I should have waited to listen to the whole episode before posting. After all, Chris himself admits he didn't intend to come across so negatively. Additionally some of the books did have the geeks very excited, so obviously that was refreshing to hear after the early statements made when discussing Rebirth. As I also stated before, I am not looking for cheerleading or false enthusiasm, just less cynicism. I wanted to clarify what bothered me since it seems to have started so much discussion.
Getting back to @mwhitt80 's question for presidents in comics, I will need to dig to come up with a whole list, but I know the first one that came to mind:
KalEl/Calvin Ellis. The Superman of Earth-23 that Morrison and Mahnke created in Final Crisis, and who we saw more of in Multiversity (and probably other appearances I missed).
I love how wonderfully comic-booky and bonkers the idea of being able to be POTUS and a superhero at the same time. To have THAT as a secret identity to maintain.
I know the count is well over 1600, but this is a comics podcast and if comics numbering has taught me anything it's that we get to celebrate the number on the current book. I love comicbook logic.
Honorable mention: President Robot Abraham Lincoln of Earth West (Flash comics). Robo Lincoln is the Pre Crisis President of Earth-West (in the 30th Century, Earth 1 is divided in half Earth-West and the evil Earth-East).
Robo Lincoln didn't make the cut BC he wasnt evil. But he is awesome listen Tom vs Flash #210 or read Flash #210 on comixology.
Honorable mention 2: Hugh Jones former President of Roxxon Oil Company. Near the top of the list of evil deeds commited by Jones is having Tony Starks parents killed.
In case you are wondering I did have to Google who the president of Roxxon was back when Roxxon was one of Marvel's big bads.
I had been away from the DCU for some years, and when I started paying attention again in the early '00s, it was fun to find out that Lex Luthor had somehow become president-
I didn't read a lot of the stories that involved this (though it was featured in the Loeb/McGuinness/Vines Superman/Batman book, which I did read). But in general, it was a really fun supervillain idea. And a great escalation for Luthor's villainy, specifically.
Damn. Much like my intent to skip Rebirth (as I am with Marvel's reset), I skipped over the guys & gal's conversation on the announcement. I wanted to hear what the thoughts were on BvS:DoJ.
Before the final trailer dropped, I made a decision to not see it in the theatre and wait to Netflix it. One of the reasons involved not feeling it fair to go to the movies without my wife. She's basically home all the time with our 2 minions & I basically only leave the house to work. She has zero interest in this movie & my initial enthusiasm shrank to a mild interest.
Having stated that, even though I know what happens throughout the movie, it'd be unfair to truly comment on it without actually viewing it.
I will say, I was one of the few people who championed MoS on this forum. I even advised reserving judgment on the movie following each casting, set photo, & tidbit announced. I felt if the movie focused more on being like the first 2 Acts of MoS, it'd be good. It sounds like the 3rd Act was similar to MoS' final act. It also sounds like the first 2 Acts of BvS wasn't as strong as they were in MoS.
I do find the feedback about the movie interesting. DC/WB reportedly announced jokes would not be apart of the DCEU. I read the praise by DC hardo fanboys how that'll crush Marvel. I read those same fanboys praise the DCEU for using award winning actors & writers (Terrio won for writing Argo, @Adam_Murdough).
Now, although the movie will make a $1 billion+ easy, they're already reshooting scenes for Suicide Squad to add levity. Excuse makers are creating this "BvS is too smart for people (specifically Marvel fans)" narrative. I have even seen the "general audiences are getting burnt out on comic book movies" excuse floated out there.
They didn't discuss it on the show (nor should they), but the movie got shredded by critics. I've always promoted people ignore critics & see what they want to see. I will say, the justification for the movie by fans is more off putting then the critics. They falsely reference DKR & Killing Joke as examples of Batman using guns & killing...yet no has cited 1 confirm kill by Batman.
I actually had a brief back & forth with a dude on Twitter who admitted to never reading DKR, "knows what happens" because Snyder stated Batman used guns & killed people throughout the storyline. This dude wound up tweeting Gerry Conway & accused him of being "some Batman 'fan' who does know the essence of the character".
Someone else tweeted the guy with a link to Gerry's Batman resume with the caption "yeah...just some Batman fan".
Hey, how about you guys finish Jessica Jones & DD season 2 so we can have discussion episodes. Are we waiting for Defenders to air to discuss everything?!
I do find the feedback about the movie interesting. DC/WB reportedly announced jokes would not be apart of the DCEU. I read the praise by DC hardo fanboys how that'll crush Marvel. I read those same fanboys praise the DCEU for using award winning actors & writers (Terrio won for writing Argo, @Adam_Murdough).
Now, although the movie will make a $1 billion+ easy, they're already reshooting scenes for Suicide Squad to add levity. Excuse makers are creating this "BvS is too smart for people (specifically Marvel fans)" narrative. I have even seen the "general audiences are getting burnt out on comic book movies" excuse floated out there.
According to this story from the Hollywood Reporter, Dawn of Justice is sinking like a stone. And they say the film is now unlikely to reach $1 billion (I'm surprised at this). They say WaB execs were “shocked” by the scathing reviews and left flat-footed as to how to respond. They will evaluate what went wrong with Batman v Superman and adjust accordingly for Justice League. There is now increasing pressure on the remainder of the studio’s 2016 schedule to perform since another high-profile disaster could mean even bigger changes to their film releases, namely, releasing a lot less of them.
I believe that both Tarzan and Suicide Squad will underperform.
Comments
Come on guys I'm not always the sharpest, but this is too good to pass up. We will never get a better time to list them: episode 1600 and a crazy election year filled with multiple candidates (on both sides) that could be in the comic books.
5) Antonia LeVay (East of West)
4) Howard Nissen (Give Me Liberty)
3) Number One, a.k.a., Richard Nixon, a.k.a. Tricky Dick (Captain America)
2) FDR: AI (Manhattan Projects)
1) Reuben Flagg (American Flagg!)
Here' my opening comment again: That would be an observation of a past trend and a lamentation of something that I see as having been lost. @David_D s comment above leaves me with a level of hope that it's being found again.
Regardless, thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons I dropped Comic Timing.
I've been pretty clear from the get-go that I hadn't (and still haven't - in the middle of a StarTalk) listened to this episode. Instead, I was observing a recent history of cynicism and general apathy.
Bringing it back to actually talking about the episode on an episode talkback thread, @ShaneKelly and @Adam_Murdough mentioned the Bohemian Rhapsody trailer of Suicide Squad, and how it felt like it was a lot more fun than the material leading up to Batman v Superman. Turns out they noticed, as reshoots are now taking place to try and add more levity to the movie, and the DCMU in general. Is that the acronym we should be using for DC Movie Universe by the way? Don't know if there's a consensus on that.
This is further indication that DC may be in over their heads with these film properties. They're either playing catch-up to FOX (Deadpool's success created a need for Snyder to announce an R-rated cut for BvS), or they're responding to negative reviews about the gloominess of BvS and realizing people were led to believe that Suicide Squad was going to be DC's answer to GotG or Ant-Man, but it actually wasn't intended to be - in spite of that awesome Bohemian Rhapsody trailer. Hopefully they can fix it in time, but I was initially less interested in SS than in BvS.
I think DC is clearly trying to catch up to Marvel MCU proper by not taking the time to organically build their Justice League characters with origin stories (ala First Avenger, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, etc.) and it doesn't bode well for these upcoming DC movies. They need a "hit" with both audiences AND critics.
Because that is not the sort of thing that should go unnoticed.
(I feel like this could be a job for @Caliban...?)
If we count MOHOTMU episodes it'll easily be over 2000.
KalEl/Calvin Ellis. The Superman of Earth-23 that Morrison and Mahnke created in Final Crisis, and who we saw more of in Multiversity (and probably other appearances I missed).
I love how wonderfully comic-booky and bonkers the idea of being able to be POTUS and a superhero at the same time. To have THAT as a secret identity to maintain.
Honorable mention: President Robot Abraham Lincoln of Earth West (Flash comics). Robo Lincoln is the Pre Crisis President of Earth-West (in the 30th Century, Earth 1 is divided in half Earth-West and the evil Earth-East).
Robo Lincoln didn't make the cut BC he wasnt evil. But he is awesome listen Tom vs Flash #210 or read Flash #210 on comixology.
Thank-you Tom vs. The Flash.
In case you are wondering I did have to Google who the president of Roxxon was back when Roxxon was one of Marvel's big bads.
I had been away from the DCU for some years, and when I started paying attention again in the early '00s, it was fun to find out that Lex Luthor had somehow become president-
I didn't read a lot of the stories that involved this (though it was featured in the Loeb/McGuinness/Vines Superman/Batman book, which I did read). But in general, it was a really fun supervillain idea. And a great escalation for Luthor's villainy, specifically.
Yeah, yeah, I know there's already an Earth-S, but I would rather change that to Earth-F as in Fawcett. Or perhaps Earth-L as in lawsuit. ;)
When will you guys be going back to legacy numbering, in about 109 more episodes?
Before the final trailer dropped, I made a decision to not see it in the theatre and wait to Netflix it. One of the reasons involved not feeling it fair to go to the movies without my wife. She's basically home all the time with our 2 minions & I basically only leave the house to work. She has zero interest in this movie & my initial enthusiasm shrank to a mild interest.
Having stated that, even though I know what happens throughout the movie, it'd be unfair to truly comment on it without actually viewing it.
I will say, I was one of the few people who championed MoS on this forum. I even advised reserving judgment on the movie following each casting, set photo, & tidbit announced. I felt if the movie focused more on being like the first 2 Acts of MoS, it'd be good. It sounds like the 3rd Act was similar to MoS' final act. It also sounds like the first 2 Acts of BvS wasn't as strong as they were in MoS.
I do find the feedback about the movie interesting. DC/WB reportedly announced jokes would not be apart of the DCEU. I read the praise by DC hardo fanboys how that'll crush Marvel. I read those same fanboys praise the DCEU for using award winning actors & writers (Terrio won for writing Argo, @Adam_Murdough).
Now, although the movie will make a $1 billion+ easy, they're already reshooting scenes for Suicide Squad to add levity. Excuse makers are creating this "BvS is too smart for people (specifically Marvel fans)" narrative. I have even seen the "general audiences are getting burnt out on comic book movies" excuse floated out there.
They didn't discuss it on the show (nor should they), but the movie got shredded by critics. I've always promoted people ignore critics & see what they want to see. I will say, the justification for the movie by fans is more off putting then the critics. They falsely reference DKR & Killing Joke as examples of Batman using guns & killing...yet no has cited 1 confirm kill by Batman.
I actually had a brief back & forth with a dude on Twitter who admitted to never reading DKR, "knows what happens" because Snyder stated Batman used guns & killed people throughout the storyline. This dude wound up tweeting Gerry Conway & accused him of being "some Batman 'fan' who does know the essence of the character".
Someone else tweeted the guy with a link to Gerry's Batman resume with the caption "yeah...just some Batman fan".
M
M
I believe that both Tarzan and Suicide Squad will underperform.