The Inescapable... MISTER MIRACLE Thread!!! (Also, to know them is to hate them--SPOILERS!)

nweathington

I was thinking to myself, “Self, when’s the last time we had a good discussion thread on a freaking comic book?” And I said to myself, “Man, it's been a looooong time.” And I figured a lot of people on the forum are going to be reading Mister Miracle, Tom King being a two-time winner of the CGS Breakout Talent of the Year Award and all, and I kinda want to talk about it without having to skate around spoilers. So here we are... what do you have to say about it?

bralinator

I'm a biIt surprised to see that you've stared this thread Eric, after indicating a few times that the book really isn't working for you.

Edit: my mistake. It was someone else I was thinking of.

nweathington

bralinator said:

I'm a biIt surprised to see that you've stared this thread Eric, after indicating a few times that the book really isn't working for you.

I didn't say it isn't working for me. I thought the first issue was very good, I just wasn't ready to call a 12-issue series the greatest thing ever after reading only one-twelfth of the story. I'd say that about anything.

I need to reread the second issue. Didn't get to it last night, but I'll do it this weekend. There are just a couple of things I need to reexamine a little more closely, one page in particular. Believe me, I wouldn't do that if I didn't think the story deserved the attention.

aquatroy

I loved it! It was darker then what I thought it would be. However, considering the tone of Vision, I probably should have expected that. I didn't know that Oberon had passed. Made me sad. Orion and Barda's "motivational" techniques are a bit disturbing, but considering Scott's childhood it's probably mild compared to what Granny used. I thought Scott's reasoning for suicide by justifying it as another "escape" was very interesting.

Someone help me with my memory. Wasn't escaping death part of Morrison's SSoV story line?

Brack

aquatroy said:

I loved it! It was darker then what I thought it would be. However, considering the tone of Vision, I probably should have expected that. I didn't know that Oberon had passed. Made me sad. Orion and Barda's "motivational" techniques are a bit disturbing, but considering Scott's childhood it's probably mild compared to what Granny used. I thought Scott's reasoning for suicide by justifying it as another "escape" was very interesting.

Someone help me with my memory. Wasn't escaping death part of Morrison's SSoV story line?

Yes, the final issue of SSoV: Mr Miracle has Shilo dying repeatedly in different situations until he escapes The Life Trap.

aquatroy

Brack said:

aquatroy said:

I loved it! It was darker then what I thought it would be. However, considering the tone of Vision, I probably should have expected that. I didn't know that Oberon had passed. Made me sad. Orion and Barda's "motivational" techniques are a bit disturbing, but considering Scott's childhood it's probably mild compared to what Granny used. I thought Scott's reasoning for suicide by justifying it as another "escape" was very interesting.

Someone help me with my memory. Wasn't escaping death part of Morrison's SSoV story line?

Yes, the final issue of SSoV: Mr Miracle has Shilo dying repeatedly in different situations until he escapes The Life Trap.

Thanks!

Hex

ugh!
When did this come out? what issue is it up to by now? I didn't spot this on the rack at my LCS. I threw in the towel on DC a few years back and haven't missed it, but I very much enjoyed King's Vision series, and Mr. Miracle is one of my favourite DC characters.

I'll have to pick this up. Hope I haven't missed the boat.

nweathington

Hex said:

ugh!
When did this come out? what issue is it up to by now? I didn't spot this on the rack at my LCS. I threw in the towel on DC a few years back and haven't missed it, but I very much enjoyed King's Vision series, and Mr. Miracle is one of my favourite DC characters.

I'll have to pick this up. Hope I haven't missed the boat.

Second issue came out this week, along with a reprint of the first issue. If you hurry, you should be able to grab both.

aquatroy

My LCS was caught a bit flat footed with the demand for MM. Really took them by surprise.

nweathington

“Oh, sure, everyone went crazy for The Vision, but that'll never happen again.”

aquatroy

nweathington said:

“Oh, sure, everyone went crazy for The Vision, but that'll never happen again.”

That is exactly what I thought when the LCS Mng said that to me.

Hex

nweathington said:

Hex said:

ugh!
When did this come out? what issue is it up to by now? I didn't spot this on the rack at my LCS. I threw in the towel on DC a few years back and haven't missed it, but I very much enjoyed King's Vision series, and Mr. Miracle is one of my favourite DC characters.

I'll have to pick this up. Hope I haven't missed the boat.

Second issue came out this week, along with a reprint of the first issue. If you hurry, you should be able to grab both.

HA!
Found issue #1 in my "to read" stack... looks like the dudes at my LCS are on the ball and slipped it into my box for me. God bless their hearts - they know what I like.

Off to a great start, looking forward to issue 2.

TheOriginalGMan

Finished issues 1 & 2 and I'm "all in" on this series.

BionicDave

It's a fascinating read already - and thank goodness it has that gorgeous artwork, which helps me tread through such dark concepts. These two issues are dripping with paranoia.

nweathington

BionicDave said:

These two issues are dripping with paranoia.

To paraphrase the old joke, it’s not paranoia if Darkseid really is out to get you.

nweathington

I'm wondering if Tom is going to keep running Kirby’s intro text and next-issue teaser text at the beginning and end of each issue. I mean, it’s a nice nod, but in the later issues of the series, Kirby drops some of the bombast and mood from the intros, and they get much more specific about what is going to happen in that issue. I don't think many of them will really work for the purpose Tom seems to be using them for in the first two issues. And does it mean that Doctor Bedlam will play a role in issue #3?

BionicDave

nweathington said:

I'm wondering if Tom is going to keep running Kirby’s intro text and next-issue teaser text at the beginning and end of each issue. I mean, it’s a nice nod, but in the later issues of the series, Kirby drops some of the bombast and mood from the intros, and they get much more specific about what is going to happen in that issue. I don't think many of them will really work for the purpose Tom seems to be using them for in the first two issues. And does it mean that Doctor Bedlam will play a role in issue #3?

Your fluency trumps my virtual ignorance when it comes to the original Kirby run, so I'm afraid I can't contribute much there. I was flirting with tackling some of the older stuff first, but... life. :joy: Sheesh, Darkseid really IS!

nweathington

BionicDave said:

nweathington said:

I'm wondering if Tom is going to keep running Kirby’s intro text and next-issue teaser text at the beginning and end of each issue. I mean, it’s a nice nod, but in the later issues of the series, Kirby drops some of the bombast and mood from the intros, and they get much more specific about what is going to happen in that issue. I don't think many of them will really work for the purpose Tom seems to be using them for in the first two issues. And does it mean that Doctor Bedlam will play a role in issue #3?

Your fluency trumps my virtual ignorance when it comes to the original Kirby run, so I'm afraid I can't contribute much there. I was flirting with tackling some of the older stuff first, but... life. :joy: Sheesh, Darkseid really IS!

I reread the first three issues of Kirby’s run last night, looking for any parallels Tom might be making, but the only one that stood out was that both issue #2’s revolved around Granny Goodness.

I was also looking skimming through Kirby’s “Young Scott Free” stories to see if there were any instances of Granny being “kind” to Scott, and sure enough, there is one instance where Granny lets Scott off “easy” by having him run through a gauntlet of other trainees with clubs instead of issuing the usual punishment for his “crime”.

BionicDave

Am guessing that Iraq War veteran Tom King's witnessing of PTSD cases (and perhaps even personal suffering from it) is fueling much if not all of Scott Free's perspective in this comic series, just as Kirby's own wartime experience fueled much of his work. The residual trauma we're seeing here, of people like Scott and Barda forced to grow up in the hellish environment of Apokolips, under the direct abuse of people like Darkseid and Granny Goodness - which even seemed to reverberate into the behavior of those like Orion - appears to be consuming Scott from the inside out. At least Barda was born into it; Scott spent his first boyhood years in the relative heaven of New Genesis before being "traded" like property to Apokolips.

TheOriginalGMan

nweathington said:

I'm wondering if Tom is going to keep running Kirby’s intro text and next-issue teaser text at the beginning and end of each issue.

Nice catch. Didn't realize that was Kirby's original text. Assumed it was one King just paying homage to another.

nweathington

BionicDave said:

Am guessing that Iraq War veteran Tom King's witnessing of cases of PTSD (and perhaps even personal suffering from it) is fueling much if not all of Scott Free's perspective in this comic series, just as Kirby's own wartime experience fueled much of his work. The residual trauma we're seeing here, of people like Scott and Barda forced grow up in the hellish environment of Apokolips, under the direct abuse of people like Darkseid and Granny Goodness - which even seemed to reverberate into the behavior of those like Orion - appears to be consuming Scott from the inside out.

It's impossible to armchair-analyze someone just from reading interviews, watching him on video, and talking to people who knew him, but I think it’s safe to say Kirby likely suffered from PTSD to some degree. And, yeah, I think Tom is definitely playing into that with Scott. The scene in issue #2 where all of the battles Scott is waging blend together into one long two-page fight is indicative of that as well.

nweathington

TheOriginalGMan said:

nweathington said:

I'm wondering if Tom is going to keep running Kirby’s intro text and next-issue teaser text at the beginning and end of each issue.

Nice catch. Didn't realize that was Kirby's original text. Assumed it was one King just paying homage to another.

I had to go to Kirby’s books to make sure, but yeah. Tom changed the typical wording of the kid drawing God joke, which I've always seen/heard as “a girl” rather than “a kid”, and which usually has the punchline, “They will when I'm finished,” rather than, “They do now,” to make it work for a young Scott. But the Kirby text is word for word.

Hex

Just finished the second issue... Wow. If I wasn't sold after issue #1, there would be no question I'm committed after this #2. Gerad's artwork didn't grab me in issue #1, but I thought #2 was very compelling.

Scott said Barda was perfect, but it was Granny who was perfect in this issue.

TheOriginalGMan

Hex said:

Gerad's artwork didn't grab me in issue #1, but I thought #2 was very compelling.

The sequence where we see Mister Miracle at the conclusion of each battle, getting new marching orders from Orion, er ... I mean"Highfather" was particularly impressive, I thought.

David_D

BionicDave said:

Am guessing that Iraq War veteran Tom King's witnessing of PTSD cases (and perhaps even personal suffering from it) is fueling much if not all of Scott Free's perspective in this comic series, just as Kirby's own wartime experience fueled much of his work. The residual trauma we're seeing here, of people like Scott and Barda forced to grow up in the hellish environment of Apokolips, under the direct abuse of people like Darkseid and Granny Goodness - which even seemed to reverberate into the behavior of those like Orion - appears to be consuming Scott from the inside out. At least Barda was born into it; Scott spent his first boyhood years in the relative heaven of New Genesis before being "traded" like property to Apokolips.

I agree with all of this. I had read all of King and Gerards Sheriff of Babylon the other week, right before reading Mister Miracle #2 (and what a hell of an issue that was!), and what really stuck out to me is how much Mister Miracle, so far, is a war book, and a book about trauma. it seems to be taking the Fourth World concepts of these two cultures locked in generations (centuries? millennia?) of war, and grounding it in the experience of Scott and Barda as people within it. It's an amazing book (and Sherriff was remarkable, as well, and I hope the popularity of MM brings more audience to that work).

I have also been surprised by how much Mister Miracle feels like a Vertigo book. And has what was at times that Vertigo feeling of doing a sophisticated, mature spin on an older superhero concept. I also noticed that Vertigo editor Jamie S. Rich, who edited Sheriff, is also editing Mister Miracle.

aquatroy

TheOriginalGMan said:

Hex said:

Gerad's artwork didn't grab me in issue #1, but I thought #2 was very compelling.

The sequence where we see Mister Miracle at the conclusion of each battle, getting new marching orders from Orion, er ... I mean"Highfather" was particularly impressive, I thought.

That sequence reminded me of the "beatings" Scott took from Orion in issue 1.

nweathington

So, issue #3. Scott still has his wrists covered, something about the missing person shown on the milk carton seems to jar him, he takes another death—this time the death of a friend—completely in stride, and he gets another beatdown. Oh, and he sees the face of God (after being announced by Funky Flashman). At this point, I'm inclined to believe that Scott is still dead after committing suicide at the beginning of issue #1, and everything we’ve seen since is Scott fighting against the Anti-Life Equation/trying to escape death.

Dr. Bedlam doesn’t show up in this issue, but Scott does take a pill in the story, a callback to the Paranoid Pill Bedlam drops down the ventilation shaft in issue #3 of Kirby’s run. The fourth Kirby issue is part two of the “Paranoid Pill” story (though it’s not identified as such), and starts with Scott trapped in a box that has been dropped from the top of a 50-floor stairwell (a carry-over from the cliffhanger ending of issue #3)—which is very similar to the stunt he performs towards the end of this issue. Kirby’s issue #4 is also the introduction of Barda, so perhaps we'll see her play a more vital role in the next issue.

BionicDave

Great insights, @nweathington. I am torn between continuing to make you spoonfeed me all the relevant Kirby beats from his original run, and reading it myself. :joy: The more you post, the more it sounds like Tom King is indeed mirroring many specifics from Kirby's issues.

TheOriginalGMan

Great analysis, @nweathington.

It's kind of odd how when Scot is dreaming, or unconscious, that his memories appear "glitchy," almost as if they're being broadcast.

Oh, one more thing, I think he and I have the same Batman tee shirt.

nweathington

BionicDave said:

The more you post, the more it sounds like Tom King is indeed mirroring many specifics from Kirby's issues.

Oh, I'm sure of it. I'm just trying to figure out whether there’s anything significant about those references to the Kirby stories, and it’s not yet clear. I mean, is it a spoiler to say that Darkseid first shows up in Kirby’s run in issue #9? We'll see, I guess.

BionicDave

I am absolutely loving this ominous "Darkseid Is" refrain. From what I've heard King say at con panels, he was chatting with some uber fan of Kirby's Fourth World, trying to get research out of him for this (then still in the early works) series, and the fan would continually wax on about Darkseid, smiling while saying "Darkseid just... is, man. Darkseid IS! You know?!" Whenever King related this at Comic-Con, crowds would laugh, partly in confusion. I'm taking it as a proposed measure of Darkseid's omnipotence. Part of it is that it's like saying "evil is." I mean, if something's truly evil, why bothering comparing it to anything? It is just... is. That's the respect you have to give it. Or at least, to the omnipotence of the idea of Darkseid to relevant characters in the DCU. There's the guy himself, what he can do - but there's also what he and his pursuit of the Anti-Life Equation represents.
The undefeatable, oncoming threat.
The paranoia of a power which forever corrupts, and may be corrupting our existence right now, without us realizing it.
In other words... death.
And an opposite of death? Is a Miracle.