I think this cover issue sums it all up too, some people are perfectly fine with it others are not. To answer truthfully it is a number of things, bad composition, poor anatomy, scale, little to no dynamics, stiff/awkward, etc. But some people are OK with it and those people are likely to be OK with his work.
While all of that is true, it still doesn't answer my question of what makes it worse than other Liefeld covers. (and I'm not saying this to bash on Liefeld because that's been done to death. It's an honest question)
(and as a side note, Zhurrie, when using comicbookdb to find Liefeld covers, I noticed that the Shadowhawk #1 cover in your avatar was actually drawn by Valentino and Liefeld, which I found kinda amusing.)
See these look bad. The other one looks like fine. I think the difference is pretty clear.
(and as a side note, Zhurrie, when using comicbookdb to find Liefeld covers, I noticed that the Shadowhawk #1 cover in your avatar was actually drawn by Valentino and Liefeld, which I found kinda amusing.)
I had covered it on the old forum. I actually did enjoy Shadowhawk when I was younger, but I specifically use this as my avatar on most comic-related sites as a joke.
But he said worst "ever," so then age is irrelevant.
And I'm sure I could find other more recent ones that were just as bad and/or worst and I'm sure I could find ones from other artists. Those are just the ones that jumped out to me the most.
(and as a side note, Zhurrie, when using comicbookdb to find Liefeld covers, I noticed that the Shadowhawk #1 cover in your avatar was actually drawn by Valentino and Liefeld, which I found kinda amusing.)
I had covered it on the old forum. I actually did enjoy Shadowhawk when I was younger, but I specifically use this as my avatar on most comic-related sites as a joke.
I remember that actually. So to clarify, I wasn't blasting you for that. I just found it kinda funny in context, but also because I didn't know that Liefeld had anything to do with that picture. I thought it was just Valentino. And there's no need to apologize for liking that when you were younger. I'll reluctantly admit to owning the early issues of Youngblood when they came out (although even at the time I could see the faults in it, just not as clearly as I do now)
All good I just wanted to make it clear that I choose it mostly as a tongue in cheek joke, but the cover was a gimmick one that lifted up to remove the mask and it was a big deal when I was younger in Shadowhawk context. The hands and terrible symmetry make me chuckle. Especially since the old thread is long gone.
That Batman Hawk/Dove cover actually stopped me dead in my tracks as I walked around the new release wall when it came out. It was like a stick to the eye. Cap with moobs is definite his worst ever and some of his drawings where he forgets to finish them or other oddities are pretty bad too but I normally just pass them by as Liefelds that hawk/dove cover made me physically stop walking to look on in horror. It looks worse in person, especially next to other comics if you want the full effect. :)
Ah, once again, time to whip out my *official* Rob Liefeld thread emoticon:
Because, really... it has all been said before.
Yeah. Any discussion I've had with anyone always ends up as beating the same emoticon. You try and be a little more analytical and we all end at the same place.
If so many people don't like Liefeld then how does he still work? Are the haters are just the minority and they are really vocal? Or have his fans just given up trying to protect him and just go on in silence?
I think liefeld has a core audience that buys anything he does just like John Byrne. Keeps him in business.
I am Facinated by so many stories that paint him as a great guy and an equal number that paint him as a bastard. It's too much for the excuse of everyone has a bad day. So does he have mood swings or just likes a certain kind of fan?
I do not respect him as an artist but I do respect him as a businessman. He knows his shit well enough to stick around and make a living.
I think liefeld has a core audience that buys anything he does just like John Byrne. Keeps him in business.
I am Facinated by so many stories that paint him as a great guy and an equal number that paint him as a bastard. It's too much for the excuse of everyone has a bad day. So does he have mood swings or just likes a certain kind of fan?
I do not respect him as an artist but I do respect him as a businessman. He knows his shit well enough to stick around and make a living.
He also knows how to rip artist and writers off. I have heard from too many people about how Rob still owes them money from over 15 years ago. But even then I am currently trying to collected all the Extreme Studios stuff. I only want to pay at the most 50 cents an issue.
He also knows how to rip artist and writers off. I have heard from too many people about how Rob still owes them money from over 15 years ago. But even then I am currently trying to collected all the Extreme Studios stuff. I only want to pay at the most 50 cents an issue.
He also knows how to rip artist and writers off. I have heard from too many people about how Rob still owes them money from over 15 years ago. But even then I am currently trying to collected all the Extreme Studios stuff. I only want to pay at the most 50 cents an issue.
With some of those issues, you'd be overpaying.
I rarely have to pay 50 cents for most of them. Usually I get them for a quarter or less.
He also knows how to rip artist and writers off. I have heard from too many people about how Rob still owes them money from over 15 years ago. But even then I am currently trying to collected all the Extreme Studios stuff. I only want to pay at the most 50 cents an issue.
With some of those issues, you'd be overpaying.
I rarely have to pay 50 cents for most of them. Usually I get them for a quarter or less.
So I asked if anyone had actually read the books, to discuss them. Not the merits of Liefield....
Ummmmm.... Anyone?????
Couldn't make it through any of them. His layouts just make my head spin and confuse me. If I can't look at a page and instinctively know what the panel order is, I put the book back. I ready too many poorly laid out comics in the 90's and won't do it any more.
I actually bought a copy of this because it may be one of the worst covers ever, and certainly one of the worst Batmans:
I'll give $5 to anyone who can explain how Batman can post that way, swinging from a Batline, in Earth gravity.
So Batman's pose being unrealistic is what goes to far? That cover also features a flying woman who dates a ghost, why doesn't that ruin it for you?
Actually, her hair indicates that she is falling, so I had no problem with that. She jumped off a building and is posing for a HTC cell phone commercial while Laurie Anderson plays in the background.
I'd like somebody to post a good Liefeld piece - just to balance things a bit.
His early stuff at Marvel was art-corrected by Romita's Raiders and I really liked his stuff. A lot of energy and energy. The problem was, he never grew out of his bad habits and became too big a "star", so he quit allowing corrections...
So Batman's pose being unrealistic is what goes to far? That cover also features a flying woman who dates a ghost, why doesn't that ruin it for you?
Realism in the visual depiction of forms and realism in the imaginative conceptions of a story are completely separate entities. As has been noted, Liefeld has crippling difficulties with accurate representations of the human form and with the attendant physics that act upon those forms. Whether one "likes" his work or not, these are unassailable features of his work. The conceptual aggregate of whacky character development (flying woman) and screwball plot lines (dating a ghost) are another matter entirely. Again, I blame Pants.
I'd like somebody to post a good Liefeld piece - just to balance things a bit.
His early stuff at Marvel was art-corrected by Romita's Raiders and I really liked his stuff. A lot of energy and energy. The problem was, he never grew out of his bad habits and became too big a "star", so he quit allowing corrections...
It had both energy and energy? So in more recent years, he's switched to decaf?
So Batman's pose being unrealistic is what goes to far? That cover also features a flying woman who dates a ghost, why doesn't that ruin it for you?
Realism in the visual depiction of forms and realism in the imaginative conceptions of a story are completely separate entities. As has been noted, Liefeld has crippling difficulties with accurate representations of the human form and with the attendant physics that act upon those forms. Whether one "likes" his work or not, these are unassailable features of his work. The conceptual aggregate of whacky character development (flying woman) and screwball plot lines (dating a ghost) are another matter entirely. Again, I blame Pants.
I'm not good at discussing art in-depth. But here's my perspective:
His work is passable at best and ugly at worst.
I was attracted to Onslaught Reborn because of the story, and knowing who the artist was didn't make me want the comic any less.
As for Youngblood: Bloodsport.... I'm attracted to the insanity of it. And Rob's art is perfect for that book.
As for the new 52... I dropped Hawk and Dove, but only partly for the art. The story didn't interest me.
I'll give Deathstroke a chance. Technically, I already am, as I'm behind, but have all of the issues. Assuming he's started on it already. Again, I'm behind on comics (and news).
I'd like somebody to post a good Liefeld piece - just to balance things a bit.
His early stuff at Marvel was art-corrected by Romita's Raiders and I really liked his stuff. A lot of energy and energy. The problem was, he never grew out of his bad habits and became too big a "star", so he quit allowing corrections...
It had both energy and energy? So in more recent years, he's switched to decaf?
Hah! I shouldn't be posting after an overnight, should I?
Comments
And I'm sure I could find other more recent ones that were just as bad and/or worst and I'm sure I could find ones from other artists. Those are just the ones that jumped out to me the most. I remember that actually. So to clarify, I wasn't blasting you for that. I just found it kinda funny in context, but also because I didn't know that Liefeld had anything to do with that picture. I thought it was just Valentino. And there's no need to apologize for liking that when you were younger. I'll reluctantly admit to owning the early issues of Youngblood when they came out (although even at the time I could see the faults in it, just not as clearly as I do now)
That Batman Hawk/Dove cover actually stopped me dead in my tracks as I walked around the new release wall when it came out. It was like a stick to the eye. Cap with moobs is definite his worst ever and some of his drawings where he forgets to finish them or other oddities are pretty bad too but I normally just pass them by as Liefelds that hawk/dove cover made me physically stop walking to look on in horror. It looks worse in person, especially next to other comics if you want the full effect. :)
Because, really... it has all been said before.
If so many people don't like Liefeld then how does he still work? Are the haters are just the minority and they are really vocal? Or have his fans just given up trying to protect him and just go on in silence?
Something must be wrong with me, as I was more hesitant to pick up 1959 (Howard Chaykin) than I was to pick up Onslaught Reborn.
Also... If Youngblood: Bloodsport #2 ever came out, I'd pick it up. I almost feel ashamed about that.
I am Facinated by so many stories that paint him as a great guy and an equal number that paint him as a bastard. It's too much for the excuse of everyone has a bad day. So does he have mood swings or just likes a certain kind of fan?
I do not respect him as an artist but I do respect him as a businessman. He knows his shit well enough to stick around and make a living.
STORYTELLING. It's all I can about.
There were people that liked Liefeld.
There were people that didnt like Liefeld.
After this thread:
Same # of people like Liefeld.
Same # of people don't like Liefeld.
Its like religion and politics... no one ever changes their minds thru these dichotomous discussions.
ridiculouslyawesome.wordpress.com/tag/rob-liefeld/
Or did you mean good art?
As has been noted, Liefeld has crippling difficulties with accurate representations of the human form and with the attendant physics that act upon those forms. Whether one "likes" his work or not, these are unassailable features of his work.
The conceptual aggregate of whacky character development (flying woman) and screwball plot lines (dating a ghost) are another matter entirely.
Again, I blame Pants.
His work is passable at best and ugly at worst.
I was attracted to Onslaught Reborn because of the story, and knowing who the artist was didn't make me want the comic any less.
As for Youngblood: Bloodsport.... I'm attracted to the insanity of it. And Rob's art is perfect for that book.
As for the new 52... I dropped Hawk and Dove, but only partly for the art. The story didn't interest me.
I'll give Deathstroke a chance. Technically, I already am, as I'm behind, but have all of the issues. Assuming he's started on it already. Again, I'm behind on comics (and news).
I wondered how long it would take for this to show up!
Energy and EXCITEMENT.