The fans love to moan, but as the season seven finale approaches, Doctor Who is as good as - if not better than - ever before, argues Dan Martin
"It's time to take a deep breath. November is still five months away. We've got a series finale to enjoy tomorrow, and – spoiler alert – I can reveal two things: Moffat is not lying when he says nothing will ever be the same again, and this episode is at least a nine-and-a-half."
Well, I have a lot of thoughts, but I need to think a little more. Might be some spoilers, so use caution...
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Once they got to the... climax scene I was happy. I had nagging issues before that. I hate River. When she showed up I was like "ok, don't freak out. Its not a big deal." But literally nothing about her appearance made any sense. NOTHING.
When the villain did what he did I was like, "wow... how are they gonna get out of this?" So then Clara did her thing and I was pretty happy. But then... the Dr. had to go and cross his own timeline. C'mon. REALLY. I also didn't really like that they showed Clara, essentially telling the Dr. what to do throughout all of reality. It basically makes her the most important person in the shows history. Even more than Bad Wolf Rose.
I honestly thing Moffat includes certain things just because of the way they sound, nothing about how they add to a story or make any logical sense. The entire ending bit about "thats the me that didn't follow the promise" whaaaat? how could he possibly know such a thing.
Also the end card of "Introducing John Hurt as... The Doctor". Thanks. That wasn't distracting at all.
I was prepared to like this episode, and I might have. But as usual with Moffat's Dr. Who I have huge problems with it.
The fans love to moan, but as the season seven finale approaches, Doctor Who is as good as - if not better than - ever before, argues Dan Martin
"It's time to take a deep breath. November is still five months away. We've got a series finale to enjoy tomorrow, and – spoiler alert – I can reveal two things: Moffat is not lying when he says nothing will ever be the same again, and this episode is at least a nine-and-a-half."
Moffat is not lying when he says nothing will be the same again? Hyperbole much? Of course things will be the same again. The tardis will still be the TARDIS, it'll still be a big blue box that travels through time and space. The Dr will still be a really smart, kinda weird guy, who travels around saving stuff. What does that even mean? "Nothing will be the same again." Sounds like an analogy for all of Moffat's run, HYPERBOLE.
I honestly thing Moffat includes certain things just because of the way they sound, nothing about how they add to a story or make any logical sense. The entire ending bit about "thats the me that didn't follow the promise" whaaaat? how could he possibly know such a thing.
He was at the end of his own timeline...So, shouldn't be able to figure out who the guy standing there was?
I honestly thing Moffat includes certain things just because of the way they sound, nothing about how they add to a story or make any logical sense. The entire ending bit about "thats the me that didn't follow the promise" whaaaat? how could he possibly know such a thing.
He was at the end of his own timeline...So, shouldn't be able to figure out who the guy standing there was?
I honestly thing Moffat includes certain things just because of the way they sound, nothing about how they add to a story or make any logical sense. The entire ending bit about "thats the me that didn't follow the promise" whaaaat? how could he possibly know such a thing.
My read is that the John Hurt Doctor is an earlier incarnation than Smith. My 2p is on him having been the regeneration between McGann and Eccleston who fought the Time War.
........... I agree wholeheartedly. "she managed to learn them off camera because reasons" bleh. River. The ultimate plot hole solver. Need a secret passage? don't worry, River knows. Need to break out of a computer program so you can, for some reason, let the villains into the tomb by secretly saying The Doctors name? No problem.... River's got it covered.
The Great Intelligence did mention The Valeyard is one of the names by which the Doctor will be known by the end of his life, and we know that The Valeyard is the final incarnation of The Doctor. The sixth Doctor did meet him and The Valeyard so Matt Smith's Doctor would know about him. After The Trail of a Time Lord, The Valeyard did survive.
The Great Intelligence did mention The Valeyard is one of the names by which the Doctor will be known by the end of his life, and we know that The Valeyard is the final incarnation of The Doctor. The sixth Doctor did meet him and The Valeyard so Matt Smith's Doctor would know about him. After The Trail of a Time Lord, The Valeyard did survive.
I hope this is the way they go and not some forgotten doctor.
I'm ready for Moffat to go as well, but I find Matt Smith's acting better each year. He's one of the few actors in the role for whom I feel like playing The Doctor won't be the peak of his career.
I've never understood Moffat's theory that the companions are the real star. Not too long ago (maybe it was even during one of those Behind the Scenes things they run during the commercials) he actually said the show has always been more about the companions than The Doctor. Aside from perhaps the very beginning, with Ian and Barbara, I'm hard-pressed to come up with another time in which the companions vied with The Doctor for lead status. Once Ian and Barbara depart, it's pretty clear who's the star of the show from that point on. For the most part, many of the companions are barely developed past their most basic personalities, with little to no growth during the course of their time on the series.
I'm glad the new series takes the time to develop the companions as characters, and the last thing I want to see is a return to the days of actors leaving the TARDIS simply because their contract is up. But I think setting up a series long story arc for each new companion is going to inevitably lead down a path of diminishing returns, as the writers are forced to come up with some interesting hook for everyone who travels on the TARDIS.
That said, I'm not finding as many problems with Clara as I did with Amy Pond. It is a bit much to have a companion play such a vital role in the show's entire history. But, given that this is the 50th Anniversary, if you're going to do a companion like that, it makes sense to do it now. The only problem I had is that, given that this happens because of a choice Clara makes, it would have been stronger if we'd seen enough of a bond form between her and The Doctor to make me believe she would take such a risk. The Clara I've seen so far this year doesn't seem like someone who would potentially sacrifice herself just to save The Doctor. She could very well be on the way to becoming that person, but this half season didn't show me enough to feel that she's there yet.
I wish I could be more excited about the upcoming 50th. I'm sure it will be a decent story, but I also find myself thinking, that for all his faults, Davies probably would have just rounded up as many past Doctors and companions as he could and thrown then in a room together. Maybe it wouldn't have been the best story, but it would make a lot of fans happy. Unless Moffat's really good at keeping a secret, I suspect the closest we'll get is something like what we had here - cleverly edited footage and extras in Colin Baker wigs.
I wish I could be more excited about the upcoming 50th. I'm sure it will be a decent story, but I also find myself thinking, that for all his faults, Davies probably would have just rounded up as many past Doctors and companions as he could and thrown then in a room together. Maybe it wouldn't have been the best story, but it would make a lot of fans happy. Unless Moffat's really good at keeping a secret, I suspect the closest we'll get is something like what we had here - cleverly edited footage and extras in Colin Baker wigs.
I think we will definitely see some extra Dr's in the 50th (beyond 10th) - and not just some Forest Gumpian inserts (although those were still fun in the finale).
The Great Intelligence did mention The Valeyard is one of the names by which the Doctor will be known by the end of his life, and we know that The Valeyard is the final incarnation of The Doctor. The sixth Doctor did meet him and The Valeyard so Matt Smith's Doctor would know about him. After The Trail of a Time Lord, The Valeyard did survive.
Yah...that Valeyard reference was certainly an intentional teaser! But perhaps that suggests it WON'T be the Valeyard. I've seen some speculation that it's a middle incarnation between 8 & 9 that existed during the Time War - I think the argument is that the clothes he was wearign (either in the ep or in some publicity stills) incorporates elements of both of those Dr's. Plus, I think the implication re the Time War is that the Dr did some pretty nasty stuff - which could be why 11 was so angry at him/himself.
As for the finale, I liked it - but it also had the usual WTF moments. I probably need to rewatch it b/c I was kind of tired while watching it - but not sure it really made sense in terms of what we were told. Are we supposed to think the GI appeared 100's (or did they say millions?) of times throughout the Dr's life and Clara appeared each time and thwarted him/it? Often behind the scenes (ex. telling the 1st Dr which Tardis to take)? And is this supposed to be the timeline that always was? It's kind of suggested b/c of the fact that we've seen Helper Clara in 2 previous instances? It all doesn't realyl seem to make sense/be practical.
Still...it was nice to see the Victorian crew - the whole psychic meeting was fun. Seeing the old Drs was fun. Seeing River was cool (although when she learned the Dr's name remains a mystery, doesn't it? Or did I miss something? Was the implication that she learned it at the Dr's death on Trenzalore? Would that have been moments before 11 arrived there in this episode? And was she non-holographic then?).
The more I think about it, the more I feel that splitting series 7 in two may have hurt things. As much as I enjoyed the finale, the impact for me was lessened by poor development of both Clara and the Great Intelligence. Maybe if they'd dropped the Ponds sooner instead of devoting half the series to their goodbye. Personally, I thought that scene of them sitting at the table with River Song at the end of series 6 would have been a fine, low key way for them to exit, and at that point I hadn't tired of them yet. If they absolutely needed to give them a big exit, they could always have done it for the 2011 Christmas special, which wasn't that memorable anyway (I literally had to look it up to recall what it was even about).
Then, devote a full 13 episodes to establishing Clara and the GI. That way, it makes more sense when Clara does what she does, and shows us why the GI is so obsessed with destroying the Doctor that it's willing to destroy itself. The Clara portion of series 7 just felt very rushed to me. I miss the pacing of those first few seasons, where over the course of 13 episodes you'd get little hints, plus a few episodes that solidly set up the finale.
in thinking about the finale more, while I enjoyed it, I think it also displayed what I find maddening about Moffat's writing/run - key points of the episode are just left up in the air as an exercise for the viewer. I don't need everything spelled out - but the key points? Yes - I'd like to know when River learned the Dr's name - because we were told that it could only happen at a particular time in a Timelord's life. Wasit at the wedding? We should not be guessing whether or not we already saw her learn it and why weddings are the "only time" Timelords can tell their names!
And if the Silence's whole season(s) long plan was to prevent the Dr. from saying his name at Trenzalore, how could we possibly have had an episode at Trenzalore with the Dr's name being spoken (albeit not by him) and the silence aren't even mentioned!??? And ambiguity as to whether the Dr. has "fallen"??
And having River present in an unknown capacity? Why keep us in the dark on that one?
And we have to guess how the whole "Clara defeats Simeon thousands of times" works?
and they'd better explain eventually how the madman in the victorian jail knew the coordinates of Trenzalore!
The extent of the lack of information/ambiguity is ridiculous!! And it serves to just drain the dramatic tension out of key scenes - b/c we're left questioning what we're seeing and why instead of enjoying a well-crafted story.
Moffat definitely has a habit of laying the groundwork for mysteries, talking about them for a while without ever moving them forward, and then suddenly rushing everything in at once because he ironically runs out of time and/or space to fit them in throughout the rest of the season. I wish he'd spend less time admiring his own handiwork and more time actually doing something with it.
"I think it also displayed what I find maddening about Moffat's writing/run - key points of the episode are just left up in the air as an exercise for the viewer. "
Yup. Here's another thing that drives me nuts. Not on this board, but over on a different DW fanpage type of place, there will be people who say something like, "huh? wait a minute, what just happened? Why is River there" or "wait... why did the TARDIS explode before?"
And someone will pipe up with "Well, DUH, obviously YOU weren't paying attention or didn't really WATCH the episode, its obvious that what happened was..... " and they will give their idea for what happened. But, they act as if their is the ONLY possible idea, meanwhile 8 other ideas about the same event have been talked about on the same thread.
I noticed that longtime fans (ie. the folks from and around Radio Free Skaro) appreciate Moffat way more than the newbs ( ie. the fanboys from and around Gallifrey Base)
I noticed that longtime fans (ie. the folks from and around Radio Free Skaro) appreciate Moffat way more than the newbs ( ie. the fanboys from and around Gallifrey Base)
RFS took a few swipes at Gallefrey Base on their last podcast.
I noticed that longtime fans (ie. the folks from and around Radio Free Skaro) appreciate Moffat way more than the newbs ( ie. the fanboys from and around Gallifrey Base)
Well, maybe in some cases, but I've been a fan since about 1984 or 1985, so... :D
Comments
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I'm going to have to watch that again.
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Once they got to the... climax scene I was happy. I had nagging issues before that. I hate River. When she showed up I was like "ok, don't freak out. Its not a big deal." But literally nothing about her appearance made any sense. NOTHING.
When the villain did what he did I was like, "wow... how are they gonna get out of this?" So then Clara did her thing and I was pretty happy. But then... the Dr. had to go and cross his own timeline. C'mon. REALLY. I also didn't really like that they showed Clara, essentially telling the Dr. what to do throughout all of reality. It basically makes her the most important person in the shows history. Even more than Bad Wolf Rose.
I honestly thing Moffat includes certain things just because of the way they sound, nothing about how they add to a story or make any logical sense. The entire ending bit about "thats the me that didn't follow the promise" whaaaat? how could he possibly know such a thing.
Also the end card of "Introducing John Hurt as... The Doctor". Thanks. That wasn't distracting at all.
I was prepared to like this episode, and I might have. But as usual with Moffat's Dr. Who I have huge problems with it.
Changing the color of the text is very clever. I'm going to start using that.
I feel like this is more likely to be the case
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I agree wholeheartedly. "she managed to learn them off camera because reasons" bleh. River. The ultimate plot hole solver. Need a secret passage? don't worry, River knows. Need to break out of a computer program so you can, for some reason, let the villains into the tomb by secretly saying The Doctors name? No problem.... River's got it covered.
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My guess is Hurt's Doctor is The Valeyard
The Great Intelligence did mention The Valeyard is one of the names by which the Doctor will be known by the end of his life, and we know that The Valeyard is the final incarnation of The Doctor. The sixth Doctor did meet him and The Valeyard so Matt Smith's Doctor would know about him. After The Trail of a Time Lord, The Valeyard did survive.
I've never understood Moffat's theory that the companions are the real star. Not too long ago (maybe it was even during one of those Behind the Scenes things they run during the commercials) he actually said the show has always been more about the companions than The Doctor. Aside from perhaps the very beginning, with Ian and Barbara, I'm hard-pressed to come up with another time in which the companions vied with The Doctor for lead status. Once Ian and Barbara depart, it's pretty clear who's the star of the show from that point on. For the most part, many of the companions are barely developed past their most basic personalities, with little to no growth during the course of their time on the series.
I'm glad the new series takes the time to develop the companions as characters, and the last thing I want to see is a return to the days of actors leaving the TARDIS simply because their contract is up. But I think setting up a series long story arc for each new companion is going to inevitably lead down a path of diminishing returns, as the writers are forced to come up with some interesting hook for everyone who travels on the TARDIS.
That said, I'm not finding as many problems with Clara as I did with Amy Pond. It is a bit much to have a companion play such a vital role in the show's entire history. But, given that this is the 50th Anniversary, if you're going to do a companion like that, it makes sense to do it now. The only problem I had is that, given that this happens because of a choice Clara makes, it would have been stronger if we'd seen enough of a bond form between her and The Doctor to make me believe she would take such a risk. The Clara I've seen so far this year doesn't seem like someone who would potentially sacrifice herself just to save The Doctor. She could very well be on the way to becoming that person, but this half season didn't show me enough to feel that she's there yet.
I wish I could be more excited about the upcoming 50th. I'm sure it will be a decent story, but I also find myself thinking, that for all his faults, Davies probably would have just rounded up as many past Doctors and companions as he could and thrown then in a room together. Maybe it wouldn't have been the best story, but it would make a lot of fans happy. Unless Moffat's really good at keeping a secret, I suspect the closest we'll get is something like what we had here - cleverly edited footage and extras in Colin Baker wigs.
e
L nny
As for the finale, I liked it - but it also had the usual WTF moments. I probably need to rewatch it b/c I was kind of tired while watching it - but not sure it really made sense in terms of what we were told. Are we supposed to think the GI appeared 100's (or did they say millions?) of times throughout the Dr's life and Clara appeared each time and thwarted him/it? Often behind the scenes (ex. telling the 1st Dr which Tardis to take)? And is this supposed to be the timeline that always was? It's kind of suggested b/c of the fact that we've seen Helper Clara in 2 previous instances? It all doesn't realyl seem to make sense/be practical.
Still...it was nice to see the Victorian crew - the whole psychic meeting was fun. Seeing the old Drs was fun. Seeing River was cool (although when she learned the Dr's name remains a mystery, doesn't it? Or did I miss something? Was the implication that she learned it at the Dr's death on Trenzalore? Would that have been moments before 11 arrived there in this episode? And was she non-holographic then?).
e
L nny
Then, devote a full 13 episodes to establishing Clara and the GI. That way, it makes more sense when Clara does what she does, and shows us why the GI is so obsessed with destroying the Doctor that it's willing to destroy itself. The Clara portion of series 7 just felt very rushed to me. I miss the pacing of those first few seasons, where over the course of 13 episodes you'd get little hints, plus a few episodes that solidly set up the finale.
And if the Silence's whole season(s) long plan was to prevent the Dr. from saying his name at Trenzalore, how could we possibly have had an episode at Trenzalore with the Dr's name being spoken (albeit not by him) and the silence aren't even mentioned!??? And ambiguity as to whether the Dr. has "fallen"??
And having River present in an unknown capacity? Why keep us in the dark on that one?
And we have to guess how the whole "Clara defeats Simeon thousands of times" works?
and they'd better explain eventually how the madman in the victorian jail knew the coordinates of Trenzalore!
The extent of the lack of information/ambiguity is ridiculous!! And it serves to just drain the dramatic tension out of key scenes - b/c we're left questioning what we're seeing and why instead of enjoying a well-crafted story.
e
L nny
Yup. Here's another thing that drives me nuts. Not on this board, but over on a different DW fanpage type of place, there will be people who say something like, "huh? wait a minute, what just happened? Why is River there" or "wait... why did the TARDIS explode before?"
And someone will pipe up with "Well, DUH, obviously YOU weren't paying attention or didn't really WATCH the episode, its obvious that what happened was..... " and they will give their idea for what happened. But, they act as if their is the ONLY possible idea, meanwhile 8 other ideas about the same event have been talked about on the same thread.
:D