Good thing Nolan is done with Batman...the next one would've been more like Batman & Robin to prevent any accusations of influencing terrorists and mass shootings!
The idiot was rightfully accused of making a terrorist threat. Now I don't believe for a second that Batman characters and terrorism should be construed as synonymous, but common sense dictates this guy shouldn't send a Joker photo to someone he's having issues with immediately after some yahoo shoots up a theater claiming to be the Joker.
And here's another one. The movie will be luck to get a billion dollars. It's to the point where if I mention to people I've seen TDKR a couple times, I get told to be careful. Even my wife was nervous when we saw it.
And here's another one. The movie will be luck to get a billion dollars. It's to the point where if I mention to people I've seen TDKR a couple times, I get told to be careful. Even my wife was nervous when we saw it.
I've long been suspicious that one of the underlying goals of the media is to keep us afraid. Scared readers are compliant readers who'll repeat what they hear until the truthiness emerges.
I'm waiting for the inevitable "Are comics creating a nation of terrorists?" articles to emerge.
I've long been suspicious that one of the underlying goals of the media is to keep us afraid. Scared readers are compliant readers who'll repeat what they hear until the truthiness emerges.
I'm waiting for the inevitable "Are comics creating a nation of terrorists?" articles to emerge.
Don't tell me you're starting to think like I have been for years! We might've done our last podcast team up. Lol
I've long been suspicious that one of the underlying goals of the media is to keep us afraid. Scared readers are compliant readers who'll repeat what they hear until the truthiness emerges.
I'm waiting for the inevitable "Are comics creating a nation of terrorists?" articles to emerge.
Don't tell me you're starting to think like I have been for years! We might've done our last podcast team up. Lol
M
After the eventual Sheena episode you can deny you ever heard of me. :)
I'm not *too* concerned about it, but let's be honest - it was last year when Canadian officials stopped a guy at the border and put him in prison for carrying "child porn" in the form of a book of manga. He was acquitted, but not before the damage was done...to both his reputation and the manga industry.
Then we have this incident. As much as I'm enjoying Detective Comics right now, the nightmarish material contained within is just fodder for a "news" team looking to get some ratings. "Well, no wonder Sideshow Bob came in and shot the place up, Jane...I'm surprised he didn't (spoiler)(if you read Detective you know what's going on)."
I never underestimate our media's ability to jump to every possible conclusion. :)
I just wish people would stop using that Dark Knight Returns image of Batman breaking a gun. They forget that the Batmobile in that story was more or less a tank with machine guns attached...that he used!!!
I just wish people would stop using that Dark Knight Returns image of Batman breaking a gun. They forget that the Batmobile in that story was more or less a tank with machine guns attached...that he used!!!
"Rubber Bullets. I promise." - Batman, TDKR
Actually hoping that line makes it in the animated version...
"Rubber Bullets. I promise" doesn't cut it as an excuse because Rubber Bullets kill. It's like putting on yer slippers to kick a man to death. Or Kill them with 'kindness'. So, Batman is using ammunition that kills.
While it's true rubber bullets can kill you, so can a banana, or a towel, or a book. To my memory we don't see anyone die from the bullets in the story, so in the context of the story, Batman doesn't kill*. He can't even bring himself to finish the job on the Joker.
So while in the real world, yes, rubber bullets can kill you, in the comic book world, and in keeping with the context of the character, they can't in the Miller-verse. Also, it's Batman...even if he's using a weapon that can kill...doesn't mean he's going to kill you with it. :)
The Sons of the Batman were using guns to kill. He had to put the kibosh on it, hence the line. It's not that he won't use a gun...he just won't use it to kill. He was teaching Jason how to shoot in The Cult, for example...must've been for a reason.
*Yes, I know Batman used a gun in the early days. It's become part of his character now that he will not kill...something villains love to bring up ad nauseum when confronted with him.
"Rubber Bullets. I promise" doesn't cut it as an excuse because Rubber Bullets kill. It's like putting on yer slippers to kick a man to death. Or Kill them with 'kindness'. So, Batman is using ammunition that kills.
I'm sure Frank Miller didn't have this information when he wrote TDKR. Doesn't change the fact that Batman is using a weapon that has killed.
I think you're missing a word in that first declaration:
"Rubber Bullets. I promise" doesn't cut it as an excuse because Rubber Bullets CAN kill.
I read the Wikipedia entry & it gave an example where 1 out of 90 was actually killed. They're used by some police forces today, along with beanbag rounds.
I'm sure if fired at the throat or eye, it'll kill, but whose to say the targeting system on the Batmobile doesn't target the meaty parts of its marks?
I'm sure when Daredevil is striking someone in the head with his billy club it could also kill his victims. It only takes 12lbs of pressure to kill a person by striking the top of the head!
Dude seriously???? A banana??? Until i see security forces using bananas to quell riots...you argument is invalid.
The facts point out that Rubber Bullets kill. Again, I'm sure Frank Miller didn't know the facts at the time...and I'm sure if he did...he might have changed it to something else.
But Batman does use bullets in the TDKR and those bullets do kill. Whether he knows it or not.
Again CAN kill. Can kill. Don't fall into the trap set used by media & attorneys of twisting facts, information, studies & making them work into your brief/point.
"Rubber bullets are rubber or rubber-coated projectiles that can be fired from either standard firearms or dedicated riot guns. They are intended to be a non-lethal alternative to metal projectiles. Like other similar projectiles made from plastic, wax, and wood, rubber bullets may be used for short range practice and animal control, but are most commonly associated with use in riot control and to disperse protests.[1][2][3] These types of projectiles are more correctly called baton rounds.[4] Rubber projectiles have largely been replaced by other materials as rubber tends to bounce uncontrollably.[5]
Such "kinetic impact munitions" are meant to cause pain but not serious injury. They are expected to produce contusions, abrasions, and hematomas.[6] However, they may cause bone fractures, injuries to internal organs, or death. In a study of 90 patients in Northern Ireland, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.[7]"
If the intent was to kill rioters, why not just fire actual bullets into the crowd? Why go through the more expensive rounds if the cheaper ones have the exact purpose & kill count?!
Dude seriously???? A banana??? Until i see security forces using bananas to quell riots...you argument is invalid.
The facts point out that Rubber Bullets kill. Again, I'm sure Frank Miller didn't know the facts at the time...and I'm sure if he did...he might have changed it to something else.
But Batman does use bullets in the TDKR and those bullets do kill. Whether he knows it or not.
Batman knows everything. :)
My point with the banana is that under the right circumstances, yes, it can kill you. Sure, a lot of factors have to fall into place for that to happen. But it can happen. Same thing with a rubber bullet - of course it can kill you, depending on where it hits you. The Joker proved a fountain pen can kill you...under the right circumstances. Like Matt said, it CAN kill you. Doesn't mean it WILL.
Particularly in Batman's hands. I'm reminded of the scene in Terminator 2 where he's forbidden to kill anyone when an entire police force is out there, guns at the ready. Arnie goes out and wreaks about 10 minutes of mayhem...at the end he assesses the situation - 0 casualties...but lord knows he put them in pain.
I think we can cut Batman and his access to tech the same amount of suspense of disbelief we can for the T-1000. :)
In the context of the story, though, the SoB's were killing criminals with guns with real bullets and then brutalizing the victims for not standing up for themselves. That had to stop. It might seem hypocritical, but I don't think so.
And given that it's Miller, if he knew rubber bullets killed he'd probably have gone "COOL!" and thrown a couple extra cuss words in as he used them to really mess someone up. :)
Lol. You guys crack me up. Do the research...rubber bullets kill. No justification...all the evidence is there. Theres a reason they dont use them as a last resort or ban them outright. I dont see them banning bananas for riot control. Miller wrote that in the early 80's...when there probably wasn't enough to say what harm those bullets do. The facts remains that Batman used bullets knowing that they kill. It doesnt ruin TDKR for me. It's Millers Batman....i can picture him doing it because the odds of him killing people are low...but it happens but its a last resort for him. It makes Batman more of a badass in my eyes. He used machine guns with rubber bullets...he didnt use a handgun...huge difference. I'm sure victims of rubber bullets would rather have been hit with a banana instead. Hahahaha...i think i got new meme!
Oh....and if 1 out of 90 results in death....gauranteed that one life is enough for Batman not to use rubber bullets. Don't just use the wiki article...look at the rest in context. If it resulted in one lost life...Batman wouldn't use it.
I side with Torch on this one- of course rubber bullets is a silly, clearly uninformed "out" to allow a scene that had machine guns on the Batmobile, just as having them on the '89 movie only to shoot at barricades and things was an easy out. But I think even if Millers fact weren't straight, his intention of honoring the modern Batman stance against killing with guns was clear and consistent. Even if it was only in the realm of funny book facts. To the larger context at hand, I think that DKR panel of him breaking the rifle is actually more representative of decades of Batmans attitude. It is the norm, and things like the rubber bullet Batmobile or the zap gun against Darkseid are the very rare exceptions.
Lol. You guys crack me up. Do the research...rubber bullets kill. No justification...all the evidence is there. Theres a reason they dont use them as a last resort or ban them outright. I dont see them banning bananas for riot control. Miller wrote that in the early 80's...when there probably wasn't enough to say what harm those bullets do. The facts remains that Batman used bullets knowing that they kill. It doesnt ruin TDKR for me. It's Millers Batman....i can picture him doing it because the odds of him killing people are low...but it happens but its a last resort for him. It makes Batman more of a badass in my eyes. He used machine guns with rubber bullets...he didnt use a handgun...huge difference. I'm sure victims of rubber bullets would rather have been hit with a banana instead. Hahahaha...i think i got new meme!
I was talking this over with some other people and we've decided riot police should only use fruit now, and when a protester gets hit with the fruit, they have to leave the area immediately. Same with the protesters, though. They have to use fruit as well.
"Crap! I got hit with a banana. Right, I'll see you guys at the next rally."
:)
Also, it's a crap argument from the beginning, because you're trying to attribute real-world concepts to a comic book. That pretty much never works.
Lol. You guys crack me up. Do the research...rubber bullets kill. No justification...all the evidence is there. Theres a reason they dont use them as a last resort or ban them outright. I dont see them banning bananas for riot control. Miller wrote that in the early 80's...when there probably wasn't enough to say what harm those bullets do. The facts remains that Batman used bullets knowing that they kill. It doesnt ruin TDKR for me. It's Millers Batman....i can picture him doing it because the odds of him killing people are low...but it happens but its a last resort for him. It makes Batman more of a badass in my eyes. He used machine guns with rubber bullets...he didnt use a handgun...huge difference. I'm sure victims of rubber bullets would rather have been hit with a banana instead. Hahahaha...i think i got new meme!
So I should do the research? So the video I added in my last post is fake? Those guys didn't get hit with rubber bullets? They didnt show the welts? They didn't all live? Anyone can type up studies to support what they want...media does it all the time. I'm looking at an actual video of the action.
Again, I will concur they CAN kill, but they also can just hurt really, really bad.
Oh....and if 1 out of 90 results in death....gauranteed that one life is enough for Batman not to use rubber bullets. Don't just use the wiki article...look at the rest in context. If it resulted in one lost life...Batman wouldn't use it.
Okay, initially you're referencing real-world instances, than shifting it to the world of Batman. In that case, when Batman says "rubber bullets" he really means "nerf bullets."
Lol. You guys crack me up. Do the research...rubber bullets kill. No justification...all the evidence is there. Theres a reason they dont use them as a last resort or ban them outright. I dont see them banning bananas for riot control. Miller wrote that in the early 80's...when there probably wasn't enough to say what harm those bullets do. The facts remains that Batman used bullets knowing that they kill. It doesnt ruin TDKR for me. It's Millers Batman....i can picture him doing it because the odds of him killing people are low...but it happens but its a last resort for him. It makes Batman more of a badass in my eyes. He used machine guns with rubber bullets...he didnt use a handgun...huge difference. I'm sure victims of rubber bullets would rather have been hit with a banana instead. Hahahaha...i think i got new meme!
I was talking this over with some other people and we've decided riot police should only use fruit now, and when a protester gets hit with the fruit, they have to leave the area immediately. Same with the protesters, though. They have to use fruit as well.
"Crap! I got hit with a banana. Right, I'll see you guys at the next rally."
:)
Also, it's a crap argument from the beginning, because you're trying to attribute real-world concepts to a comic book. That pretty much never works.
Sounds like those rioters could use some training!
So I took Flint's advice and did some research beyond Wikipedia. Each of these random sites all say rubber bullets CAN kill. None say they (only) kill. These even mention that the technology has improved over the years to make them less likely to kill.
A man, any man, especially no senior citizen can swing from rooftop to rooftop with a rope gun. Rope guns DONT WORK. There is no such thing. Cars crash and kill people. Cars are killers. Seriously WTF is this rubber bullet argument!?
I just wish people would stop using that Dark Knight Returns image of Batman breaking a gun. They forget that the Batmobile in that story was more or less a tank with machine guns attached...that he used!!!
"Rubber Bullets. I promise." - Batman, TDKR
Actually hoping that line makes it in the animated version...
Comments
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/steven-kennedy-joker-terrorist-threat-kentucky-aurora-_n_1710426.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl27|sec3_lnk1%26pLid%3D185030
Good thing Nolan is done with Batman...the next one would've been more like Batman & Robin to prevent any accusations of influencing terrorists and mass shootings!
M.
On a more positive note.
I'm pleased to see Batman is garnering more than just negative press.
http://www.yakima-herald.com/stories/2012/07/25/ten-reasons-why-we-love-batman
http://kjsilopanna.tumblr.com/post/28400630842/ape-in-a-cape-i-dont-know-what-to-say
This one seems to work.
http://kjsilopanna.tumblr.com/post/28400630842/ape-in-a-cape-i-dont-know-what-to-say
http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/articles/2012/08/01/fla_man_accused_of_disturbance_at_batman_movie/?s_campaign=MobAppShare_EM
You know, Pittsburgh had a few thefts by a group of young theives posing as a flash mob. Any chance Step Up: Revolution will take heat?!
M
I'm waiting for the inevitable "Are comics creating a nation of terrorists?" articles to emerge.
M
I'm not *too* concerned about it, but let's be honest - it was last year when Canadian officials stopped a guy at the border and put him in prison for carrying "child porn" in the form of a book of manga. He was acquitted, but not before the damage was done...to both his reputation and the manga industry.
Then we have this incident. As much as I'm enjoying Detective Comics right now, the nightmarish material contained within is just fodder for a "news" team looking to get some ratings. "Well, no wonder Sideshow Bob came in and shot the place up, Jane...I'm surprised he didn't (spoiler)(if you read Detective you know what's going on)."
I never underestimate our media's ability to jump to every possible conclusion. :)
Actually hoping that line makes it in the animated version...
news.discovery.com/tech/can-rubber-bullets-kill-you-110815.html
liberalconspiracy.org/2011/08/09/rubber-bullets-have-killed-nine-youths-in-the-past/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_bullets
I'm sure Frank Miller didn't have this information when he wrote TDKR. Doesn't change the fact that Batman is using a weapon that has killed.
So while in the real world, yes, rubber bullets can kill you, in the comic book world, and in keeping with the context of the character, they can't in the Miller-verse. Also, it's Batman...even if he's using a weapon that can kill...doesn't mean he's going to kill you with it. :)
The Sons of the Batman were using guns to kill. He had to put the kibosh on it, hence the line. It's not that he won't use a gun...he just won't use it to kill. He was teaching Jason how to shoot in The Cult, for example...must've been for a reason.
*Yes, I know Batman used a gun in the early days. It's become part of his character now that he will not kill...something villains love to bring up ad nauseum when confronted with him.
"Rubber Bullets. I promise" doesn't cut it as an excuse because Rubber Bullets CAN kill.
I read the Wikipedia entry & it gave an example where 1 out of 90 was actually killed. They're used by some police forces today, along with beanbag rounds.
I'm sure if fired at the throat or eye, it'll kill, but whose to say the targeting system on the Batmobile doesn't target the meaty parts of its marks?
I'm sure when Daredevil is striking someone in the head with his billy club it could also kill his victims. It only takes 12lbs of pressure to kill a person by striking the top of the head!
M
The facts point out that Rubber Bullets kill. Again, I'm sure Frank Miller didn't know the facts at the time...and I'm sure if he did...he might have changed it to something else.
But Batman does use bullets in the TDKR and those bullets do kill. Whether he knows it or not.
"Rubber bullets are rubber or rubber-coated projectiles that can be fired from either standard firearms or dedicated riot guns. They are intended to be a non-lethal alternative to metal projectiles. Like other similar projectiles made from plastic, wax, and wood, rubber bullets may be used for short range practice and animal control, but are most commonly associated with use in riot control and to disperse protests.[1][2][3] These types of projectiles are more correctly called baton rounds.[4] Rubber projectiles have largely been replaced by other materials as rubber tends to bounce uncontrollably.[5]
Such "kinetic impact munitions" are meant to cause pain but not serious injury. They are expected to produce contusions, abrasions, and hematomas.[6] However, they may cause bone fractures, injuries to internal organs, or death. In a study of 90 patients in Northern Ireland, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.[7]"
If the intent was to kill rioters, why not just fire actual bullets into the crowd? Why go through the more expensive rounds if the cheaper ones have the exact purpose & kill count?!
M
My point with the banana is that under the right circumstances, yes, it can kill you. Sure, a lot of factors have to fall into place for that to happen. But it can happen. Same thing with a rubber bullet - of course it can kill you, depending on where it hits you. The Joker proved a fountain pen can kill you...under the right circumstances. Like Matt said, it CAN kill you. Doesn't mean it WILL.
Particularly in Batman's hands. I'm reminded of the scene in Terminator 2 where he's forbidden to kill anyone when an entire police force is out there, guns at the ready. Arnie goes out and wreaks about 10 minutes of mayhem...at the end he assesses the situation - 0 casualties...but lord knows he put them in pain.
I think we can cut Batman and his access to tech the same amount of suspense of disbelief we can for the T-1000. :)
In the context of the story, though, the SoB's were killing criminals with guns with real bullets and then brutalizing the victims for not standing up for themselves. That had to stop. It might seem hypocritical, but I don't think so.
And given that it's Miller, if he knew rubber bullets killed he'd probably have gone "COOL!" and thrown a couple extra cuss words in as he used them to really mess someone up. :)
Just saying, 3 guys, no deaths.
M
I find the German dubbed version funnier:
"Crap! I got hit with a banana. Right, I'll see you guys at the next rally."
:)
Also, it's a crap argument from the beginning, because you're trying to attribute real-world concepts to a comic book. That pretty much never works.
Again, I will concur they CAN kill, but they also can just hurt really, really bad.
M
M
"Crap! I got hit with a banana. Right, I'll see you guys at the next rally."
:)
Also, it's a crap argument from the beginning, because you're trying to attribute real-world concepts to a comic book. That pretty much never works.
Sounds like those rioters could use some training!
M
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_rubber_bullets_kill_you
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110217102723AAVNAHD
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-08/09/rubber-bullets
http://occupywallstreet.tumblr.com/post/11953458617/remember-that-rubber-rounds-can-kill-when-they-are
http://news.discovery.com/tech/can-rubber-bullets-kill-you-110815.html
M
( two minutes in)