I do not see the DC plan as trend chasing. I see it as a plan to compete with their rival. Thought out 6 years. My issue is the quickness to shit on it. I don't want to personalize this to @WetRats though I sense you believe your 52 years entitles you to be more critical than supportive and my 45 year old self disagrees with that notion.
Entitled?
Hell. being 52 doesn't even entitle me to a senior citizen's discount.
All it entitles me to is bad knees.
Mentioning my age was in response to @Torchsong's mentioning his 13-year-old self.
I am as critical or as supportive of a project as I feel the project warrants, based upon the information given about the people involved in said project, and their existing body of work.
The people behind these movies have not produced a single film I have enjoyed, why should I expect them to suddenly start making ones I do enjoy?
I am quite supportive of things I enjoy. For instance, I have felt at times, as if I were the only person supporting Agents of SHIELD.
I'm also supportive of projects by people whose previous work I have enjoyed.
I don't think you understand that what I find offensive here is not being disagreed with, but being scolded for expressing my opinion.
I will be as critical or supportive as I damned well choose to be, and your 45-year-old self can kiss my 52-year-old ass if you don't like it.
Really? Does being 52 years old entitle you to be a jerk? I made a general comment about how I am not in favor of this rush to criticize things not even produced yet. I did not scold anybody. I repeatedly said this was my preference. What I like or do not like is irrelevant to you and I fully support that fact. But "kiss my.... ass" for expressing my opinion, not shouting yours down, but pointing out elements of the generally critical view of the DC announcement? And you did wave that 52 year old flag like it made your opinion was more valid than others. Who said not to express your opinion? To use @DavidD's words that's a "straw man" argument built to justify your own opinion. I would double down on your "Kiss my...ass" with a similar thought but I hope there are 13 year old's out there and I do not want to be that angry old man you seem comfortable being.
I do not think we benefit from knowing how the sausage is made. This is not specific to our subculture, this just happens to be the one I comment on. I don't think we should over-analyze this subject to the extent we do.
So why are you on the internet?
That's pretty much what the internet is all about.
I, for one, am fascinated by sausage-making and I love over-analysis.
Why am I on the internet ? Are you for real? The internet does not have to be all about process, that seems a self serving thing to say. I like being aware of the world around me that's why I'm on the internet. That does not mean I need to immerse myself in the details of how or why this or that movie gets made.
I also like the people, they are so pleasant. Even the older ones.
Not much more to add except what a refreshing turn this thread has had! I'm in total agreement. I'm seeing these movies through my eyes, my wife's, in the eyes of what my childhood self would think (and I grew up in the 90s which was not the best decade for superhero movies) and through my kids. They don't need these movies to be carbon copies or to be beholden to comic versions. They are their own entities that can exist side by side with the versions in cartoons, comics, coloring books, animated movies, etc. They are so much more patient and tolerant and understanding than hardcore fans. Which is a good thing if we want them to be the next generation.
And lest anyone think I'm all cream cheese and daisies...it will take a LOT of convincing to get me to give this new Fantastic Four movie my money. I'm not saying I won't see it, but when every other comment out of the studio and the stars is basically "You know what you love about the Fantastic Four? Yeah, we shit all over that!"...yeah, I'm gonna have a hard time getting my butt in a chair for that.
One thing for a studio to omit or leave out something we comic-reading brethren hold sacred...but man the FF crew is like HOSTILE about it. Almost in a humorous way. "The Thing? Yeah, he's not covered in rocks. That's poop! ACTUAL POOP!" :)
So see? My rose-colored glasses do have a flip screen. :)
I am excited for all these comic book movies. I have no idea if they will be go or bad, but that is the fun of anticipation. Looking forward to seeing them in the theater, and knowing each movie gets a fair shake, not the snarkiness or backstabbing of internet fanboys, right?
The snarkiness of the internet fanboy is more of a turn off than some of this casting choices in DC and narrative decisions over in the Marvel side. This is an old train of thought that I'm going to express as I know I have said it here often: We sound like spoiled, entitled brats. Christopher Nolan movies dont count, RDJ should not be in Cap 3, The DC TV universe should be represented on the Silver Screen, Batman should not be in the MOS sequel. We tear these things apart in the conception stage. I understand that we all have strong opinions and preferences but I wish we could all just enjoy this upcoming decade. Suicide Squad?Civil War?. I'm impressed. You guys go back in time and cut class to see Superman 3. Maybe you will understand why I'm more excited about this plan than most of this forum seems to be.
I am excited for all these comic book movies. I have no idea if they will be go or bad, but that is the fun of anticipation. Looking forward to seeing them in the theater, and knowing each movie gets a fair shake, not the snarkiness or backstabbing of internet fanboys, right?
OK.
Snarkiness is fair.
It's fun being snarky.
But what backstabbing?
Seriously, who has been stabbed in their back?
And why is it anyone who has a different opinion is derided as a fanboy? I am so [expletive deleted] sick of the hypocrisy of the term. Every active member of this forum is an "internet fanboy".
I love ya, Stewart.
Snarky is fun, until the snarkiness is all that is being given.
True, backstabbed I have not. But the term of "internet fanboys" I am referring to describes any fan who gets to the point where our investment has gotten to the point of no return, where we feel that any development of our favorite IPs is just not good enough compared to the nostalgia of when we first discovered these funny books..
I am for conversation, discussion and lively debate but not constant whining, heavy vitriol, or outright griping. Do you agree, @WetRats?
I like this thought and I do not take it is a shot at my posts but there is so much more of the "skeptical, disinterested or angry " part in a large portion of the responses that I took issue with. Nobody gets a blank check but there were a lot more gripes about RDJ in Cap 3 than "excited" at the prospect of the MCU growing as a function of RDJ appearing as Tony Stark. I think we are so invested in this stuff that we forget that we CAN be "excited" instead of going straight for the "skeptical, disinterested or angry".
I think you can be excited and critical. I know for me, I'm excited for Cap 3, which is why I question the idea of throwing Stark in there, if we were going to continue Cap 2's story.
This is different from maybe a year ago, where I would have drooled over the prospect. (and yes, I enjoyed Civil War, up to a point)
I didn't see much of the torches come out on this site.... yet.
Really? Does being 52 years old entitle you to be a jerk? I made a general comment about how I am not in favor of this rush to criticize things not even produced yet. I did not scold anybody. I repeatedly said this was my preference. What I like or do not like is irrelevant to you and I fully support that fact. But "kiss my.... ass" for expressing my opinion, not shouting yours down, but pointing out elements of the generally critical view of the DC announcement? And you did wave that 52 year old flag like it made your opinion was more valid than others. Who said not to express your opinion? To use @DavidD's words that's a "straw man" argument built to justify your own opinion. I would double down on your "Kiss my...ass" with a similar thought but I hope there are 13 year old's out there and I do not want to be that angry old man you seem comfortable being.
Not much more to add except what a refreshing turn this thread has had! I'm in total agreement. I'm seeing these movies through my eyes, my wife's, in the eyes of what my childhood self would think (and I grew up in the 90s which was not the best decade for superhero movies) and through my kids. They don't need these movies to be carbon copies or to be beholden to comic versions. They are their own entities that can exist side by side with the versions in cartoons, comics, coloring books, animated movies, etc. They are so much more patient and tolerant and understanding than hardcore fans. Which is a good thing if we want them to be the next generation.
So, much for that refreshing turn. Sorry. :-??
Haha - no, all good. Good on Shroud for keeping the torch. I could understand a person's "snarkiness" (if that's the word we're using), if they just posted and then that was it. The constant coming back to a thread that is clearly not for them is what I think Shroud is talking about. Let people have their enjoyment, if you're against it - great - have your say and move on. Why try to discourage people? That's what I don't get. f someone was snarky to my kid because they were young or enjoying something, and were told "What do you know?" or whatever, they would have that snarkiness shoved down their throats. Haha.
And there's nothing wrong with not liking something, but it almost seems like we've made it a sport, or a badge of honor, to not like something. Particularly if the mainstream crowd seems to be enjoying it.
The equally dangerous flip-side is trying to like everything. Some things do, in fact, suck. And you're allowed, or you should be allowed, to call out that fact.
I draw the line at calling out something's suckitude before it's even been made. Or before giving it a day in court. If, after that, I didn't care for it, I have no problem saying I didn't like it. Not to convert others to my "rallying flag" or to condemn their taste for enjoying it...but simply to note that it wasn't for me.
And there's nothing wrong with not liking something, but it almost seems like we've made it a sport, or a badge of honor, to not like something. Particularly if the mainstream crowd seems to be enjoying it.
The equally dangerous flip-side is trying to like everything. Some things do, in fact, suck. And you're allowed, or you should be allowed, to call out that fact.
I draw the line at calling out something's suckitude before it's even been made. Or before giving it a day in court. If, after that, I didn't care for it, I have no problem saying I didn't like it. Not to convert others to my "rallying flag" or to condemn their taste for enjoying it...but simply to note that it wasn't for me.
I've actually come to realize: 1.) alternate media is never going to be the same as the source material 2.) it's not always going to be made for me (which includes the interpretations I prefer to see) 3.) if it's not a premise that interests me, I move on...no need to shred something I'm not a fan of or didn't see
It's been a busy week, so I have been away from this one, so when i was catching up today and seeing that this thread had gone three pages, my hope was that it was actually three pages of talk about this big slate of new movies, rather than a lot of talk about what kind of talking we should or shouldn't be doing here, or talking about how we do or don't want each other to be talking. Oh well.
Here's the thing-- I do agree with the sentiment that we spend too much energy speculating about future things that we haven't seen or read yet vs. the latest announcement about the things they have sell us in the future. But, I suppose that is the game, that is how hype goes.
And I do think there is something to be said for appreciating the amount of choices superhero fans have now, at this time when our subculture is being turned into pop culture. And I think it is great to be positive about that, and to share your own positivity about that.
My opinion, from being a part of a lot of these discussions over the years, is that the best way to go about finding and supporting positivity is not by attacking the negativity, you know what I mean? To characterize and judge where the opinions you don't like are coming from is not a positive turn. It is actually just another kind of negative speculation. Because you are no longer speaking from your own point of view.
Maybe the better way to give a discussion a positive turn is to talk about why YOU are feeling positive. When we start to throw labels around, or tell other people what they should or shouldn't be saying, well, that never goes well.
I would challenge those who want less negativity, or less discussions speculating about the future, to do something else about it: Start and participate in the discussions you want to be having. Speak from your own point of view about why you are positive, or why you like what you like. Because then the result is more discussions, and hopefully more of the kinds of discussions you want to see.
I think that is always going to have a better effect than trying to tell people they are doing it wrong. You know what I mean? Because then you are no longer speaking for yourself. You are trying to characterize what someone else is saying. And that tends to not go well. And we find ourselves talking about the talking again.
My personal two cents, for what it is worth. (And I fell into the same trap, as I spent my time talking about the talking, instead of going to another discussion to talk about some things I actually read or saw this week!)
Very good commentary, David, and I'd like to take this initiative to talk about the really important issue of today: Apparently Warwick Davis is going to be in the next Star Wars movie, which means there may be Ewoks in it.
I predict Chicago will be on fire by nightfall. :)
Very good commentary, David, and I'd like to take this initiative to talk about the really important issue of today: Apparently Warwick Davis is going to be in the next Star Wars movie, which means there may be Ewoks in it.
I predict Chicago will be on fire by nightfall. :)
Fingerscrossed it's to play Willow & blow our crossover minds wide open!!
I hope each movie is better than the next. I kinda like Marvel's approach of not announcing every movie all at once. It gives the illusion they can be flexible when something works or does not work.
Anyway, I hope they are smart enough to let each character breath in their individual movies. The advantage WB has is all of their most popular comic book characters are all under one roof. Of course the happy accident of Marvel dealing out their characters is the failures are not laid at Marvel's feet. No one will hold it against Marvel if Fantastic Four tanks. The fans will just beg Fox to hand the character back to Marvel. If Green Lantern bombs some in the audience might hold it against Aquaman or The Flash.
It's been a busy week, so I have been away from this one, so when i was catching up today and seeing that this thread had gone three pages, my hope was that it was actually three pages of talk about this big slate of new movies, rather than a lot of talk about what kind of talking we should or shouldn't be doing here, or talking about how we do or don't want each other to be talking. Oh well.
Here's the thing-- I do agree with the sentiment that we spend too much energy speculating about future things that we haven't seen or read yet vs. the latest announcement about the things they have sell us in the future. But, I suppose that is the game, that is how hype goes.
And I do think there is something to be said for appreciating the amount of choices superhero fans have now, at this time when our subculture is being turned into pop culture. And I think it is great to be positive about that, and to share your own positivity about that.
My opinion, from being a part of a lot of these discussions over the years, is that the best way to go about finding and supporting positivity is not by attacking the negativity, you know what I mean? To characterize and judge where the opinions you don't like are coming from is not a positive turn. It is actually just another kind of negative speculation. Because you are no longer speaking from your own point of view.
Maybe the better way to give a discussion a positive turn is to talk about why YOU are feeling positive. When we start to throw labels around, or tell other people what they should or shouldn't be saying, well, that never goes well.
I would challenge those who want less negativity, or less discussions speculating about the future, to do something else about it: Start and participate in the discussions you want to be having. Speak from your own point of view about why you are positive, or why you like what you like. Because then the result is more discussions, and hopefully more of the kinds of discussions you want to see.
I think that is always going to have a better effect than trying to tell people they are doing it wrong. You know what I mean? Because then you are no longer speaking for yourself. You are trying to characterize what someone else is saying. And that tends to not go well. And we find ourselves talking about the talking again.
My personal two cents, for what it is worth. (And I fell into the same trap, as I spent my time talking about the talking, instead of going to another discussion to talk about some things I actually read or saw this week!)
I am positive about the specific DC plan because Warner Brothers is a first class studio who own internationally recognized iconic trademark characters and is interested in repeating the Marvel sucsess. They have bought in big budget directors to be in charge of their projects ( Nolan, Snyder, Ayer) and seem interested in the bigger picture. MCU has made half a billion dollars off the Guardians of the Galaxy and WB/DC imagines how much a well done Justice League movie would do since Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman have a little more name recognition than Groot, Gamora and Starlord. Man of Steel & Dark Knight trilogy proved that DC/WB is willing to spend the money to get it done right and it showed on the screen. Whether I liked all the narrative decisions or not ( Pa Kent dying was pointless IMO and I viscerally dislike that choice) I believe they are looking to do it right and not just chase the trend though being second to the party runs the risk of looking like that. I am very excited about Suicide Squad as long as it resembles Ostrander or Simone and not Ayer's recent Sabotage. I think WB is willing to treat Ben Affleck like it did Clint Eastwood 35 years ago. Let him be a director as long as he stars in their big budget stuff. How did that turn out for Eastwood? Affleck probably is loving this notion. I speculate that eventually he directs himself in one of these films. I am very happy about this DC plan. I hope for the best and do not think the misfires of MOS should scare people off. Give them a chance.
I have spoke for myself without commenting on other's talking. I have contributed to the good vibes that my earlier dissent may have lessened
I appreciate the sentiment to David D's post, but where is the counter to the opposite position? I've seen in this thread - and others, like when someone said There was no accounting for taste when I said I loved the old TMNT movies - that when people DO talk about the positive, and why, the negative comments come right out to counter or make fun of or just joke. Like in this thread, the idea that the scripts are made by monkeys at typewriters. How is that engaging the conversation? Even if it's jokey - where does it really add? And why can't there be the same kind of post, that says Look. You don't like it. Great. You made some jokes. You spouted your dislike. Now let the thread be about something else. Being cynical is NOT what the internet is about. I do agree - the best thing is to engage elsewhere. To ignore some and engage others. The problem is that it's feeling like it's more important to scoff than cheer all across social media. That's NOT what the internet was for. Again, way to go those who are bucking against the vitriol.
And I'm still hoping that BvS shows some of the future of the DC Cinematic Universe. Clips of other movies, or just teases, not that they are actual footage. Just like visions. Of what could be. And that's why we get a Dark Knight Returns feel. How amazing would that be!
Very good commentary, David, and I'd like to take this initiative to talk about the really important issue of today: Apparently Warwick Davis is going to be in the next Star Wars movie, which means there may be Ewoks in it.
I predict Chicago will be on fire by nightfall. :)
Fingerscrossed it's to play Willow & blow our crossover minds wide open!!
It makes me chuckle... Whenever I don't get on the forums for a few days, when I get back it always seems @WetRats has got in an argument with someone or multiple someone's. I don't always agree with you, but this would be a worse place without ya.
And personally I have no opinion on these films at the moment, there's just not enough info out there about them yet. I do hope they'll all be made with extra helpings of awesome sauce though.
I appreciate the sentiment to David D's post, but where is the counter to the opposite position? I've seen in this thread - and others, like when someone said There was no accounting for taste when I said I loved the old TMNT movies - that when people DO talk about the positive, and why, the negative comments come right out to counter or make fun of or just joke. Like in this thread, the idea that the scripts are made by monkeys at typewriters. How is that engaging the conversation? Even if it's jokey - where does it really add? And why can't there be the same kind of post, that says Look. You don't like it. Great. You made some jokes. You spouted your dislike. Now let the thread be about something else. Being cynical is NOT what the internet is about. I do agree - the best thing is to engage elsewhere. To ignore some and engage others. The problem is that it's feeling like it's more important to scoff than cheer all across social media. That's NOT what the internet was for. Again, way to go those who are bucking against the vitriol.
"All the negativity on this forum sucks" - paraphrasing one of my favoriteRick Pitino rants
I appreciate the sentiment to David D's post, but where is the counter to the opposite position? I've seen in this thread - and others, like when someone said There was no accounting for taste when I said I loved the old TMNT movies - that when people DO talk about the positive, and why, the negative comments come right out to counter or make fun of or just joke. Like in this thread, the idea that the scripts are made by monkeys at typewriters. How is that engaging the conversation? Even if it's jokey - where does it really add? And why can't there be the same kind of post, that says Look. You don't like it. Great. You made some jokes. You spouted your dislike. Now let the thread be about something else. Being cynical is NOT what the internet is about. I do agree - the best thing is to engage elsewhere. To ignore some and engage others. The problem is that it's feeling like it's more important to scoff than cheer all across social media. That's NOT what the internet was for. Again, way to go those who are bucking against the vitriol.
I have to get on the road, so more thoughts on this later, but my short response is that the things you are talking about are also something to keep in mind, and that I will be mindful about.
I don't see it as my place to say to anyone 'you've had enough to say, you're cut off', especially if they are continuing to speak for themselves. But I think it is good to make that same challenge- that if you find yourself spending a lot of time discussing the things you don't like, then it is also good to make time to start or add to discussions about the things you do.
that if you find yourself spending a lot of time discussing the things you don't like, then it is also good to make time to start or add to discussions about the things you do.
If only this sentence was required reading every time we posted a comment. Good thinking, David.
that if you find yourself spending a lot of time discussing the things you don't like, then it is also good to make time to start or add to discussions about the things you do.
If only this sentence was required reading every time we posted a comment. Good thinking, David.
I guess I'm one of those on the opposite spectrum. I'm way too positive as it is. Sometimes I have to remember to be critical :p
My reaction to all these movies? Awesome. I don't know any details, but awesome work, DC.
Comments
I also like the people, they are so pleasant. Even the older ones.
Oops, wrong thread for a tension reducing sidebar.
M
One thing for a studio to omit or leave out something we comic-reading brethren hold sacred...but man the FF crew is like HOSTILE about it. Almost in a humorous way. "The Thing? Yeah, he's not covered in rocks. That's poop! ACTUAL POOP!" :)
So see? My rose-colored glasses do have a flip screen. :)
Snarky is fun, until the snarkiness is all that is being given.
True, backstabbed I have not. But the term of "internet fanboys" I am referring to describes any fan who gets to the point where our investment has gotten to the point of no return, where we feel that any development of our favorite IPs is just not good enough compared to the nostalgia of when we first discovered these funny books..
I am for conversation, discussion and lively debate but not constant whining, heavy vitriol, or outright griping. Do you agree, @WetRats?
This is different from maybe a year ago, where I would have drooled over the prospect. (and yes, I enjoyed Civil War, up to a point)
I didn't see much of the torches come out on this site.... yet.
Fine.
You win.
I shall take my angry old ass out of here.
Bye, y'all.
The equally dangerous flip-side is trying to like everything. Some things do, in fact, suck. And you're allowed, or you should be allowed, to call out that fact.
I draw the line at calling out something's suckitude before it's even been made. Or before giving it a day in court. If, after that, I didn't care for it, I have no problem saying I didn't like it. Not to convert others to my "rallying flag" or to condemn their taste for enjoying it...but simply to note that it wasn't for me.
1.) alternate media is never going to be the same as the source material
2.) it's not always going to be made for me (which includes the interpretations I prefer to see)
3.) if it's not a premise that interests me, I move on...no need to shred something I'm not a fan of or didn't see
M
It's been a busy week, so I have been away from this one, so when i was catching up today and seeing that this thread had gone three pages, my hope was that it was actually three pages of talk about this big slate of new movies, rather than a lot of talk about what kind of talking we should or shouldn't be doing here, or talking about how we do or don't want each other to be talking. Oh well.
Here's the thing-- I do agree with the sentiment that we spend too much energy speculating about future things that we haven't seen or read yet vs. the latest announcement about the things they have sell us in the future. But, I suppose that is the game, that is how hype goes.
And I do think there is something to be said for appreciating the amount of choices superhero fans have now, at this time when our subculture is being turned into pop culture. And I think it is great to be positive about that, and to share your own positivity about that.
My opinion, from being a part of a lot of these discussions over the years, is that the best way to go about finding and supporting positivity is not by attacking the negativity, you know what I mean? To characterize and judge where the opinions you don't like are coming from is not a positive turn. It is actually just another kind of negative speculation. Because you are no longer speaking from your own point of view.
Maybe the better way to give a discussion a positive turn is to talk about why YOU are feeling positive. When we start to throw labels around, or tell other people what they should or shouldn't be saying, well, that never goes well.
I would challenge those who want less negativity, or less discussions speculating about the future, to do something else about it: Start and participate in the discussions you want to be having. Speak from your own point of view about why you are positive, or why you like what you like. Because then the result is more discussions, and hopefully more of the kinds of discussions you want to see.
I think that is always going to have a better effect than trying to tell people they are doing it wrong. You know what I mean? Because then you are no longer speaking for yourself. You are trying to characterize what someone else is saying. And that tends to not go well. And we find ourselves talking about the talking again.
My personal two cents, for what it is worth. (And I fell into the same trap, as I spent my time talking about the talking, instead of going to another discussion to talk about some things I actually read or saw this week!)
I predict Chicago will be on fire by nightfall. :)
What I want to know is are we finally going to get more Dengar?
M
Anyway, I hope they are smart enough to let each character breath in their individual movies. The advantage WB has is all of their most popular comic book characters are all under one roof. Of course the happy accident of Marvel dealing out their characters is the failures are not laid at Marvel's feet. No one will hold it against Marvel if Fantastic Four tanks. The fans will just beg Fox to hand the character back to Marvel. If Green Lantern bombs some in the audience might hold it against Aquaman or The Flash.
I have spoke for myself without commenting on other's talking. I have contributed to the good vibes that my earlier dissent may have lessened
And personally I have no opinion on these films at the moment, there's just not enough info out there about them yet. I do hope they'll all be made with extra helpings of awesome sauce though.
M
I don't see it as my place to say to anyone 'you've had enough to say, you're cut off', especially if they are continuing to speak for themselves. But I think it is good to make that same challenge- that if you find yourself spending a lot of time discussing the things you don't like, then it is also good to make time to start or add to discussions about the things you do.
My reaction to all these movies? Awesome. I don't know any details, but awesome work, DC.
See? I'm a monster!