Anthony Lane in The New Yorker reviewed the film, and he also expressed confusion about what was going on, so its not like my wife is some outlier. I've been reading Marvel since the mid-70s, and even I am a bit mystified by the significance of the gemstones and what Thanos is up to, probably because I missed some key storylines in the 80s and 90s. But should I have to be an avid reader to enjoy a movie? Are the Infinity Stones and the Tesserac and the Cosmic Cube the same thing? If Thanos is collecting them, isn't he a bit miffed that one gemstone is now lodged in the Vision's forehead? I feel my eyes glaze over, just like when my son starts providing intricate details about Pokemon or Dragonball that mean nothing to an outsider.
Was your theater empty at the end of the credits or were a number of theater-goers still hanging out, perhaps expecting a post-credits scene? Anyone think the mid-credits scene was just a rehash or cut from the GotG movie?
What did you want/expect from the movie that you didn't get?
Before I get to that, a few more positives--
I really liked the Maximoff twins. Well-cast. An interesting, visual way in to their powers was given. And even though their origins are no longer that they were active criminals, they still get to be a part of the old, original idea of the second generation of Avengers including those who you are extending trust to. Giving them a second chance.
I was bummed that people talking about rumors on the board spoiled the Quicksilver death for me. If I didn't expect that was coming, it would probably have been a nice surprise. Especially as they were skillfully bait-and-switching a Hawkeye death.
I also think that killing Quicksilver makes sense for a few reasons-- it sets that stakes that dying *can* happen. His power set is probably problematic on the less-powerful second generation team. And Scarlet Witch becomes more interesting, and more unstable, without him.
Speaking of the second generation team we saw at the end-- it's a cool lineup. An intriguing mix of less-powered, tech-using military types (War Machine, Falcon) there to follow Cap and Black Widow's orders; and then two potentially very powerful, unpredictable wild cards (Vision and Scarlet Witch). I'm glad we actually saw them as a lineup at the end.
The Black Widow and Hulk relationship was an interesting surprise. I get the criticism some have made that it seemed very sub-plotty, or didn't go where they expected. But, for me, I like how it actually built on the connection made between the two characters in the first Avengers (their scene in the house when BW is sent to recruit Banner is one of my favorites in that movie). I thought the duality of BW basically being Hulk's tamer/keeper in the field; while they are exploring a romantic relationship off the field was a sort of strange-- slightly creepy, when you think of the power dynamics of a relationship-- unexpected thing that I dug. It is also nice when these movies give us character relationships we don't expect, and (as far as I know) we've never seen in the comics.
I also like the way that connects with Hawkeye's secret family. Everyone probably assumed (as I even did as an audience member) that they were a thing, but just being discreet. And so that assumption provides that much more cover for Barton's family, as no one even thinks to look for them.
And, I also appreciated that- for all of the city destruction porn we got in this one-- there was also a lot of time spent on trying to save people, keep people safe, or take the action away from civilians. I like that one of the most dramatic, heroic entrances in the movie is basically a giant, flying lifeboat. And as silly as scanning a building to see that it is empty, and then Hulking it down as if that will keep anyone from getting hurt *actually* is, I appreciate the storytellers taking that effort. It gives you permission to believe that for all the destruction, that the heroes are fighting and protecting at the same time.
The theater employees told us there was nothing to see, so we started leaving and I almost missed the Thanos thing which played DURING the credits. I was mildly pissed, but it doesn't seem to be very substantial.
Anthony Lane in The New Yorker reviewed the film, and he also expressed confusion about what was going on, so its not like my wife is some outlier. I've been reading Marvel since the mid-70s, and even I am a bit mystified by the significance of the gemstones and what Thanos is up to, probably because I missed some key storylines in the 80s and 90s. But should I have to be an avid reader to enjoy a movie? Are the Infinity Stones and the Tesserac and the Cosmic Cube the same thing? If Thanos is collecting them, isn't he a bit miffed that one gemstone is now lodged in the Vision's forehead? I feel my eyes glaze over, just like when my son starts providing intricate details about Pokemon or Dragonball that mean nothing to an outsider.
I'm not trying to imply anything about your wife, because I already know my wife will be asking the same questions.
I'm not certain who this Anthony Lane chap is, but I wonder if that's a common issue in multiple reviews. I once recall reading a review for Spider-man where the reviewer complained there was no explanation about where Parker's parents were. I'm sure there was a number of "civilians" with the same complaint, but I only read one review about it.
So far, the Infinity Gems = the MCU Infinity Stones. The Cosmic Cube = the MCU Tesseract. I'm not certain if the Tesseract will also be an Infinity Stone.*
I can't say if that was something from any storylines in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or even the Ultimate universe.
M
*EDIT: looks like the Tesseract is an Infinity Stone.
Was your theater empty at the end of the credits or were a number of theater-goers still hanging out, perhaps expecting a post-credits scene? Anyone think the mid-credits scene was just a rehash or cut from the GotG movie?
Was that all they could come up with?
With the caveat that this was a Thursday night crowd (I lucked out that my theater at evening shows, so my old and tired self didn't have to do a midnight), so this was a crowd that had to already be engaged and aware enough to FIND a showing of a movie scheduled to open the next day--
A chunk of the crowd bounded out as soon as the movie finished. Many lingered for the special treat. I overheard a lot of people telling each other that there was nothing else to wait for, but a little group of us, surely less than a tenth of the crowd, stayed anyway, thinking that they had heard a false rumor or a fake-out or something. I believed that if Whedon made a point of telling whatever audience he could reach that there was no stinger, that it would be the truth. But after the whole conversation about this, I was curious what the crowd would do.
When there was no stinger, there were some who sucked their teeth or "oww, come on!"-ed.
...And then swore off Marvel movies forever, and began lives of crime.
Also, earlier in the film there were those flashes of future troubles that Stark and Thor saw. Those were basically the stuff of post-credits. I feel like enough of the future was already imbedded in the movie.
Was your theater empty at the end of the credits or were a number of theater-goers still hanging out, perhaps expecting a post-credits scene? Anyone think the mid-credits scene was just a rehash or cut from the GotG movie?
Was that all they could come up with?
With the caveat that this was a Thursday night crowd (I lucked out that my theater at evening shows, so my old and tired self didn't have to do a midnight), so this was a crowd that had to already be engaged and aware enough to FIND a showing of a movie scheduled to open the next day--
A chunk of the crowd bounded out as soon as the movie finished. Many lingered for the special treat. I overheard a lot of people telling each other that there was nothing else to wait for, but a little group of us, surely less than a tenth of the crowd, stayed anyway, thinking that they had heard a false rumor or a fake-out or something. I believed that if Whedon made a point of telling whatever audience he could reach that there was no stinger, that it would be the truth. But after the whole conversation about this, I was curious what the crowd would do.
When there was no stinger, there were some who sucked their teeth or "oww, come on!"-ed.
...And then swore off Marvel movies forever, and began lives of crime.
...but, we're trained to stay until the end. Everyone, not just us fans. I can't believe a large number left!!!
His death was part of the deal with Fox & their usage of the character...or was it?!
M
Nah, it was just story telling, they always had the rights to use them. it was part of the deal when they went to the bank for Marvel studios lone, before they had Cap or Iron man rights back . the avengers pitch was the twins, ant-man Vision black panther. the contract with fox has certain characters as both x-men and other marvel properties which means they can used by any of properties rights holders as much as they want. only thing is Marvel studios can't say the word Mutant or reference Magneto and Fox can't comment on avengers
His death was part of the deal with Fox & their usage of the character...or was it?!
M
Nah, it was just story telling, they always had the rights to use them. it was part of the deal when they went to the bank for Marvel studios lone, before they had Cap or Iron man rights back . the avengers pitch was the twins, ant-man Vision black panther. the contract with fox has certain characters as both x-men and other marvel properties which means they can used by any of properties rights holders as much as they want. only thing is Marvel studios can't say the word Mutant or reference Magneto and Fox can't comment on avengers
I was just making a joke based on the bugaboo started when it was revealed both studios were using that character.
Anthony Lane in The New Yorker reviewed the film, and he also expressed confusion about what was going on, so its not like my wife is some outlier. I've been reading Marvel since the mid-70s, and even I am a bit mystified by the significance of the gemstones and what Thanos is up to, probably because I missed some key storylines in the 80s and 90s. But should I have to be an avid reader to enjoy a movie? Are the Infinity Stones and the Tesserac and the Cosmic Cube the same thing? If Thanos is collecting them, isn't he a bit miffed that one gemstone is now lodged in the Vision's forehead? I feel my eyes glaze over, just like when my son starts providing intricate details about Pokemon or Dragonball that mean nothing to an outsider.
A non-comics reader is supposed to be in the dark about Thanos' motivations at this point.
The Black Widow and Hulk relationship was an interesting surprise. I get the criticism some have made that it seemed very sub-plotty, or didn't go where they expected. But, for me, I like how it actually built on the connection made between the two characters in the first Avengers (their scene in the house when BW is sent to recruit Banner is one of my favorites in that movie). I thought the duality of BW basically being Hulk's tamer/keeper in the field; while they are exploring a romantic relationship off the field was a sort of strange-- slightly creepy, when you think of the power dynamics of a relationship-- unexpected thing that I dug. It is also nice when these movies give us character relationships we don't expect, and (as far as I know) we've never seen in the comics.
I really enjoyed their scenes together.
And the twitting they got from their colleagues.
The whole relationship, along with Hawkeye's family, provided a human grounding for the balls-out action-fest.
Not certain if Barton's family will play into Civil War. I'd hate to have them be killed as part of the storyline. Kinda disappointed it wasn't Bobbi. Out of all the team members, it's easy to picture him as the married one?
M
Bobbi is in Agents of Shield, and she is awesome, though not involved with Hawkeye.
I know you don't like the show, but in my opinion, it has made great season 1.
So far, the Infinity Gems = the MCU Infinity Stones. The Cosmic Cube = the MCU Tesseract. I'm not certain if the Tesseract will also be an Infinity Stone.
I can't say if that was something from any storylines in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or even the Ultimate universe.
M
The Tesseract is definitely an Infinity Stone. This movie revealed that, if other movies didn't reference that. It was also featured in the Infinity War trailer with the other known stones.
Not certain if Barton's family will play into Civil War. I'd hate to have them be killed as part of the storyline. Kinda disappointed it wasn't Bobbi. Out of all the team members, it's easy to picture him as the married one?
M
Bobbi is in Agents of Shield, and she is awesome, though not involved with Hawkeye.
I know you don't like the show, but in my opinion, it has made great season 1.
Although I don't watch the show, I knew Bobbi was AoS. Especially when I heard there's a potential spinoff show for her.
So far, the Infinity Gems = the MCU Infinity Stones. The Cosmic Cube = the MCU Tesseract. I'm not certain if the Tesseract will also be an Infinity Stone.
I can't say if that was something from any storylines in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or even the Ultimate universe.
M
The Tesseract is definitely an Infinity Stone. This movie revealed that, if other movies didn't reference that. It was also featured in the Infinity War trailer with the other known stones.
I didn't see the Infinity War trailer, but after seeing AoU, I updated the post.
I read a review of the movie by Camilia Long of The Sunday Times. She described the movie as "Two hours of boredom and boobs add up to a sorry basis for the new Avengers."
Now if she thought it was boring throughout the whole movie, is her opinion. What I found more peculiar was the "boobs" remark. Aside from 2 moments (one a comedic bit), it really didn't seem like a "boob" flick. In fact, I'd say just the opposite.
Aside from one scene I thought would target complaints, the women were just as capable as the guys. Hell, Wanda seemed like the most powerful person in the whole movie.
Hill, Widow, Wanda, Cho, the ladies at the world central hub, & Laura I felt were all there for more then eye candy. Joss is known for giving female characters great reverence.
Does anyone else feel as though the women were just there for a "boobfest"?
(Note: I originally posted this in the non-spoiler thread, on account I wasn't aware there were two Avengers: Age of Ultron threads in place. The link below is probably better served in this thread.)
Disney sent the employees of my local comic shop some advance screening passes to see Avengers: Age of Ultron. That same comic book shop, Comics Conspiracy in Sunnyvale, CA produces a weekly podcast so after the Avengers screening they recorded a spoiler-filled review. If anyone is interested in listening to what they had to say here's a link:
I read a review of the movie by Camilia Long of The Sunday Times. She described the movie as "Two hours of boredom and boobs add up to a sorry basis for the new Avengers."
Now if she thought it was boring throughout the whole movie, is her opinion. What I found more peculiar was the "boobs" remark. Aside from 2 moments (one a comedic bit), it really didn't seem like a "boob" flick. In fact, I'd say just the opposite.
Aside from one scene I thought would target complaints, the women were just as capable as the guys. Hell, Wanda seemed like the most powerful person in the whole movie.
Hill, Widow, Wanda, Cho, the ladies at the world central hub, & Laura I felt were all there for more then eye candy. Joss is known for giving female characters great reverence.
Does anyone else feel as though the women were just there for a "boobfest"?
Initial thoughts were I liked it more than Avengers which was a better constructed movie but AoU gave me more thrills and moments. Like one QB who throws for 400 and 4 Tds yards but only hit on 40% of their passes vs 250 yards and 3 tds but hit on 75% on their passes.
I put it at between Winter Soldier and Avengers 1.
I thought the movie was better than Avengers 1 even if I got more butterflies out of the first movie. That has more to do with seeing the team Assemble for the first time. I managed to avoid all the trailers so I went in pretty much clean.
I was pleasantly surprised to see them adapt the best Ultron story I have ever read which is "Ultron Unlimited". I did not stay for the entire credits run, but hope Busiek and Perez got a credit. One of my only nerd gripes was Thor did not say "Ultron, we would have words with thee." which is one of the greatest lines in comics. James Spader delivers the thing that has been missing from most of the Marvel movies a villain who is just as interesting as the heroes. Is it a coincidence that the best bad guys in all the Marvel movies have come with Joss Weadon directed movies?
Joss Whedon not only brings the obvious things you would think about from a Marvel movie like humor but smaller things. They spent a good portion of this film looking out for civilians. Stark spends as much time looking for a way to draw the Hulk out of the city as he does punching him in the face. The Avengers spend good portions of the film evacuating the city before they took on Ultron. Not to bring up a tired debate, but it really bugged me when Superman never did the same thing in Man of Steel. It seems like that will pay off in the next movie, but it did throw me off while watching that movie. They show you no matter how bad they can act they are still heroes at their core.
Finally, this is a movie that embraces the things that make being a Marvel comic book fan such great thing. They have managed to add all the complexity that having a deep and rich continuity without making it unapproachable. It takes the foundations of hours of movies and tv shows and builds on them. I am living the dream!
I thought the movie was better than Avengers 1 even if I got more butterflies out of the first movie. That has more to do with seeing the team Assemble for the first time. I managed to avoid all the trailers so I went in pretty much clean.
I was pleasantly surprised to see them adapt the best Ultron story I have ever read which is "Ultron Unlimited". I did not stay for the entire credits run, but hope Busiek and Perez got a credit. One of my only nerd gripes was Thor did not say "Ultron, we would have words with thee." which is one of the greatest lines in comics. James Spader delivers the thing that has been missing from most of the Marvel movies a villain who is just as interesting as the heroes. Is it a coincidence that the best bad guys in all the Marvel movies have come with Joss Weadon directed movies?
Joss Whedon not only brings the obvious things you would think about from a Marvel movie like humor but smaller things. They spent a good portion of this film looking out for civilians. Stark spends as much time looking for a way to draw the Hulk out of the city as he does punching him in the face. The Avengers spend good portions of the film evacuating the city before they took on Ultron. Not to bring up a tired debate, but it really bugged me when Superman never did the same thing in Man of Steel. It seems like that will pay off in the next movie, but it did throw me off while watching that movie. They show you no matter how bad they can act they are still heroes at their core.
Finally, this is a movie that embraces the things that make being a Marvel comic book fan such great thing. They have managed to add all the complexity that having a deep and rich continuity without making it unapproachable. It takes the foundations of hours of movies and tv shows and builds on them. I am living the dream!
I chuckled to myself a couple times because it was almost like Whedon went out of his way to show the team evacuating, directly protecting, & trying to avoid any civilian casualties. Cap even referenced the sentiment.
Comments
Was that all they could come up with?
I really liked the Maximoff twins. Well-cast. An interesting, visual way in to their powers was given. And even though their origins are no longer that they were active criminals, they still get to be a part of the old, original idea of the second generation of Avengers including those who you are extending trust to. Giving them a second chance.
I was bummed that people talking about rumors on the board spoiled the Quicksilver death for me. If I didn't expect that was coming, it would probably have been a nice surprise. Especially as they were skillfully bait-and-switching a Hawkeye death.
I also think that killing Quicksilver makes sense for a few reasons-- it sets that stakes that dying *can* happen. His power set is probably problematic on the less-powerful second generation team. And Scarlet Witch becomes more interesting, and more unstable, without him.
Speaking of the second generation team we saw at the end-- it's a cool lineup. An intriguing mix of less-powered, tech-using military types (War Machine, Falcon) there to follow Cap and Black Widow's orders; and then two potentially very powerful, unpredictable wild cards (Vision and Scarlet Witch). I'm glad we actually saw them as a lineup at the end.
The Black Widow and Hulk relationship was an interesting surprise. I get the criticism some have made that it seemed very sub-plotty, or didn't go where they expected. But, for me, I like how it actually built on the connection made between the two characters in the first Avengers (their scene in the house when BW is sent to recruit Banner is one of my favorites in that movie). I thought the duality of BW basically being Hulk's tamer/keeper in the field; while they are exploring a romantic relationship off the field was a sort of strange-- slightly creepy, when you think of the power dynamics of a relationship-- unexpected thing that I dug. It is also nice when these movies give us character relationships we don't expect, and (as far as I know) we've never seen in the comics.
I also like the way that connects with Hawkeye's secret family. Everyone probably assumed (as I even did as an audience member) that they were a thing, but just being discreet. And so that assumption provides that much more cover for Barton's family, as no one even thinks to look for them.
And, I also appreciated that- for all of the city destruction porn we got in this one-- there was also a lot of time spent on trying to save people, keep people safe, or take the action away from civilians. I like that one of the most dramatic, heroic entrances in the movie is basically a giant, flying lifeboat. And as silly as scanning a building to see that it is empty, and then Hulking it down as if that will keep anyone from getting hurt *actually* is, I appreciate the storytellers taking that effort. It gives you permission to believe that for all the destruction, that the heroes are fighting and protecting at the same time.
I'm not certain who this Anthony Lane chap is, but I wonder if that's a common issue in multiple reviews. I once recall reading a review for Spider-man where the reviewer complained there was no explanation about where Parker's parents were. I'm sure there was a number of "civilians" with the same complaint, but I only read one review about it.
So far, the Infinity Gems = the MCU Infinity Stones. The Cosmic Cube = the MCU Tesseract. I'm not certain if the Tesseract will also be an Infinity Stone.*
I can't say if that was something from any storylines in the 80s, 90s, 00s, or even the Ultimate universe.
M
*EDIT: looks like the Tesseract is an Infinity Stone.
A chunk of the crowd bounded out as soon as the movie finished. Many lingered for the special treat. I overheard a lot of people telling each other that there was nothing else to wait for, but a little group of us, surely less than a tenth of the crowd, stayed anyway, thinking that they had heard a false rumor or a fake-out or something. I believed that if Whedon made a point of telling whatever audience he could reach that there was no stinger, that it would be the truth. But after the whole conversation about this, I was curious what the crowd would do.
When there was no stinger, there were some who sucked their teeth or "oww, come on!"-ed.
...And then swore off Marvel movies forever, and began lives of crime.
I'm sure, like any good covert op, Fury has a couple Helicarriers stashed in various transport containers throughout the world!
M
**SPOILER ALERT**
Maybe Marvel reached peak post-credits scene with Howard the Duck at the end of GotG.
M
M
SPOILER ALERT
Don't wait around after the mid-credits scene. Don't wait until the end. There's nothing there.
:)
M
It is a still-unfolding story.
And the twitting they got from their colleagues.
The whole relationship, along with Hawkeye's family, provided a human grounding for the balls-out action-fest.
Also....
"Fine. I'll do it myself." - I got chills when I saw that.
I also loved the New Avengers.
I know you don't like the show, but in my opinion, it has made great season 1.
M
M
Now if she thought it was boring throughout the whole movie, is her opinion. What I found more peculiar was the "boobs" remark. Aside from 2 moments (one a comedic bit), it really didn't seem like a "boob" flick. In fact, I'd say just the opposite.
Aside from one scene I thought would target complaints, the women were just as capable as the guys. Hell, Wanda seemed like the most powerful person in the whole movie.
Hill, Widow, Wanda, Cho, the ladies at the world central hub, & Laura I felt were all there for more then eye candy. Joss is known for giving female characters great reverence.
Does anyone else feel as though the women were just there for a "boobfest"?
M
Disney sent the employees of my local comic shop some advance screening passes to see Avengers: Age of Ultron. That same comic book shop, Comics Conspiracy in Sunnyvale, CA produces a weekly podcast so after the Avengers screening they recorded a spoiler-filled review. If anyone is interested in listening to what they had to say here's a link:
http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/8/f/7/8f7df5398ae4396e/ComicConspiracy_Ep207.mp3?c_id=8884017&expiration=1430301467&hwt=dd598445b1fd9d3d708e9e751f93b606
I put it at between Winter Soldier and Avengers 1.
I was pleasantly surprised to see them adapt the best Ultron story I have ever read which is "Ultron Unlimited". I did not stay for the entire credits run, but hope Busiek and Perez got a credit. One of my only nerd gripes was Thor did not say "Ultron, we would have words with thee." which is one of the greatest lines in comics. James Spader delivers the thing that has been missing from most of the Marvel movies a villain who is just as interesting as the heroes. Is it a coincidence that the best bad guys in all the Marvel movies have come with Joss Weadon directed movies?
Joss Whedon not only brings the obvious things you would think about from a Marvel movie like humor but smaller things. They spent a good portion of this film looking out for civilians. Stark spends as much time looking for a way to draw the Hulk out of the city as he does punching him in the face. The Avengers spend good portions of the film evacuating the city before they took on Ultron. Not to bring up a tired debate, but it really bugged me when Superman never did the same thing in Man of Steel. It seems like that will pay off in the next movie, but it did throw me off while watching that movie. They show you no matter how bad they can act they are still heroes at their core.
Finally, this is a movie that embraces the things that make being a Marvel comic book fan such great thing. They have managed to add all the complexity that having a deep and rich continuity without making it unapproachable. It takes the foundations of hours of movies and tv shows and builds on them. I am living the dream!
M