DC Comics Rebirth

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• bralinator Posts: 5,967

  February 2016

  Hmm... they have my curiosity. Hope they can keep my attention. I was also curious about Convergence. Perhaps they learned their lesson.

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  February 2016

  All I want is good stories. I don't really care if it's New52, DCYou, pre-Crisis, or something entirely new—just give me good, interesting stories with good, interesting artwork. DC has a few decent writers if editorial will let them write, and they really need to add some better artists into the mix, but it's all going to come down to editorial loosening the reins a bit and letting their creators be creative.

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• David_D Posts: 3,884

  February 2016

  nweathington said:

  All I want is good stories. I don't really care if it's New52, DCYou, pre-Crisis, or something entirely new—just give me good, interesting stories with good, interesting artwork. DC has a few decent writers if editorial will let them write, and they really need to add some better artists into the mix, but it's all going to come down to editorial loosening the reins a bit and letting their creators be creative.

  Seconded. And the lower price point will encourage me to give more of these a try.

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  February 2016 edited February 2016

  David_D said:

  nweathington said:

  All I want is good stories. I don't really care if it's New52, DCYou, pre-Crisis, or something entirely new—just give me good, interesting stories with good, interesting artwork. DC has a few decent writers if editorial will let them write, and they really need to add some better artists into the mix, but it's all going to come down to editorial loosening the reins a bit and letting their creators be creative.

  Seconded. And the lower price point will encourage me to give more of these a try.

  Maybe, but that is counteracted by so many of the titles double-shipping, which means $5.98 per month as well as fill-in artists or rotating artists. Is Aquaman going to be worth that to me? It depends on the creative teams (plural), but I'm more likely to drop a double-shipping $2.99 book than I am a monthly shipping $3.99 book. Maybe that's just me.

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• compsolut Posts: 150

  February 2016

  nweathington said:

  Maybe, but that is counteracted by so many of the titles double-shipping, which means $5.98 per month as well as fill-in artists or rotating artists. Is Aquaman going to be worth that to me? It depends on the creative teams (plural), but I'm more likely to drop a double-shipping $2.99 book than I am a monthly shipping $3.99 book. Maybe that's just me.

  
  Yes, it does. But you still need to look at price per page. Yes, I will happily pay $5.98 for 64 pages of content over $3.99 for 32, if that content is quality. Money does play a factor, but more than anything, value is king. If you are giving me twice monthly Batman titles that are stellar, or even great. I will gladly give up some of my Marvel titles that are good/entertaining. Hopefully that is the angle DC is going for.
  
  To add to that, whatever they have been doing editorial-wise through the New 52, they need to reverse it. If editorial has been too hands on, back off and trust your creators (especially if you are going to make them exclusive). If you have been too hands off, then give them some guiding rails. Something structurally needs to change, because it just isn't working.
  
  And, yes, I can say it, as well as the thousands of people voting with their wallets monthly. The New 52 is a failure overall. Some things have worked, but overall %-wise, it's been an abject failure. There, I said it, quote me. :)
  

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  February 2016 edited February 2016

  compsolut said:

  Money does play a factor, but more than anything, value is king. If you are giving me twice monthly Batman titles that are stellar, or even great. I will gladly give up some of my Marvel titles that are good/entertaining. Hopefully that is the angle DC is going for.

  Yes, I too will give up two “good” monthly titles for one “stellar or even great” twice-monthly title. But that's because quality is king, not value. The question is would you give up two “great” $3.99 monthly titles in favor of one “good” or even very good $2.99 twice-monthly title? If the answer is yes, then value is king.
  
  For me, the answer is no. I want to read the best books, not settle for cheaper books of lower quality. As I said in my first post, as with everything I read, a lower price point is nice, but it's entirely going to depend on the creative teams and whether or not editorial allows them to be creative.
  
  [EDIT: “Value” isn't really the right word for me to use here, because it doesn't distinguish between monetary value versus artistic value. I could just as easily argue that value is in fact king, but that a $3.99 book (even with a lower page count) can provide more value than a $2.99 book based on the difference in artistic quality. Value in this case is really a sliding scale based on personal preference. What I really am interested in knowing is how many people would give up two $3.99 monthly Marvel (or Image or whatever) titles for one $2.99 twice-monthly DC title when they actually prefer, to whatever degree, the Marvel (or whatever) titles?]

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• David_D Posts: 3,884

  February 2016

  nweathington said:

  David_D said:

  nweathington said:

  All I want is good stories. I don't really care if it's New52, DCYou, pre-Crisis, or something entirely new—just give me good, interesting stories with good, interesting artwork. DC has a few decent writers if editorial will let them write, and they really need to add some better artists into the mix, but it's all going to come down to editorial loosening the reins a bit and letting their creators be creative.

  Seconded. And the lower price point will encourage me to give more of these a try.

  Maybe, but that is counteracted by so many of the titles double-shipping, which means $5.98 per month as well as fill-in artists or rotating artists. Is Aquaman going to be worth that to me? It depends on the creative teams (plural), but I'm more likely to drop a double-shipping $2.99 book than I am a monthly shipping $3.99 book. Maybe that's just me.

  That's fair. Though, and this is true with Marvel as well, double-shipping has never bothered me. If it is a title I want to read, I am usually happy to read more of it sooner rather than later. I would take a double-shipping $2.99 book, at 20 pages of content each, over what has become the norm for a book like Batman, which has tended to be $3.99 for, I think, less than 30 pages, and often the backup is from a different writer.

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  February 2016 edited February 2016

  David_D said:

  nweathington said:

  David_D said:

  nweathington said:

  All I want is good stories. I don't really care if it's New52, DCYou, pre-Crisis, or something entirely new—just give me good, interesting stories with good, interesting artwork. DC has a few decent writers if editorial will let them write, and they really need to add some better artists into the mix, but it's all going to come down to editorial loosening the reins a bit and letting their creators be creative.

  Seconded. And the lower price point will encourage me to give more of these a try.

  Maybe, but that is counteracted by so many of the titles double-shipping, which means $5.98 per month as well as fill-in artists or rotating artists. Is Aquaman going to be worth that to me? It depends on the creative teams (plural), but I'm more likely to drop a double-shipping $2.99 book than I am a monthly shipping $3.99 book. Maybe that's just me.

  That's fair. Though, and this is true with Marvel as well, double-shipping has never bothered me. If it is a title I want to read, I am usually happy to read more of it sooner rather than later. I would take a double-shipping $2.99 book, at 20 pages of content each, over what has become the norm for a book like Batman, which has tended to be $3.99 for, I think, less than 30 pages, and often the backup is from a different writer.

  Well, let's take Amazing Spider-Man as an example. I didn't get every issue. In fact, I didn't read the main creative team’s work beyond a try-out. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't quite good enough for my money. But I would buy the occasional fill-in arc when it was Marcos Martin or Javier Pulido doing the artwork, or the Roger Stern/Lee Weeks stories because those were worth my money. And if every issue was done by one of those guys, I would have bought every issue. So, like you, I have no problem with double-shipping in principle, as long as the quality is there in every issue. But that's the trick.
  
  Of the titles listed that are going twice-monthly, Aquaman is the only one I currently get. I'm a year behind on it, and I haven't read any issues from the current creative team, so I can't speak to the current quality of the book. But let's say they get Jeff Parker back on the book and give him an artist at least the caliber of Paul Pellitier. I would get that book at $2.99 and twice-monthly assuming that creative team did every issue. But we all know that cannot happen. Even if Jeff were able to write all those issues, you're going to need at least one more artist doing at least half those issues in a given year. So you're going to need to give me Jeff Parker (or someone I like equally well) and at least two artists of Paul Pellitier’s ability or better. And I don't see DC as being able to do that with the group of creators they are currently employing.
  
  Locking in Tom King was a step in the right direction for DC. I'll have to see who else they come up with before I get excited.

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• luckymustard Posts: 927

  February 2016

  Action Comics, at the rate of 2 books a month, will reach issue #1000 in early 2018. Detective Comics in late 2018.

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• bralinator Posts: 5,967

  February 2016

  Another reason to root for this?
  
  The possibility that it slows Marvel's climb towards the $4.99 price point. How long has it been since they had an ongoing $2.99 book that wasn't aimed exclusively at kiddies?

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  February 2016 edited February 2016

  luckymustard said:

  Action Comics, at the rate of 2 books a month, will reach issue #1000 in early 2018. Detective Comics in late 2018.

  Just for reference, Dell’s Four Color, which began in 1942, reached issue #1000 in the summer of 1959. And that was after it was relaunched and renumbered back to 1. The first Four Color series ran 25 issues from 1939 to 1942. The difference being, of course, that Four Color never ran a serialized story. They were all one-and-dones featuring a different character or licensed property in every issue. Still, it's interesting to consider.

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• David_D Posts: 3,884

  February 2016

  nweathington said:

  David_D said:

  nweathington said:

  David_D said:

  nweathington said:

  All I want is good stories. I don't really care if it's New52, DCYou, pre-Crisis, or something entirely new—just give me good, interesting stories with good, interesting artwork. DC has a few decent writers if editorial will let them write, and they really need to add some better artists into the mix, but it's all going to come down to editorial loosening the reins a bit and letting their creators be creative.

  Seconded. And the lower price point will encourage me to give more of these a try.

  Maybe, but that is counteracted by so many of the titles double-shipping, which means $5.98 per month as well as fill-in artists or rotating artists. Is Aquaman going to be worth that to me? It depends on the creative teams (plural), but I'm more likely to drop a double-shipping $2.99 book than I am a monthly shipping $3.99 book. Maybe that's just me.

  That's fair. Though, and this is true with Marvel as well, double-shipping has never bothered me. If it is a title I want to read, I am usually happy to read more of it sooner rather than later. I would take a double-shipping $2.99 book, at 20 pages of content each, over what has become the norm for a book like Batman, which has tended to be $3.99 for, I think, less than 30 pages, and often the backup is from a different writer.

  Well, let's take Amazing Spider-Man as an example. I didn't get every issue. In fact, I didn't read the main creative team’s work beyond a try-out. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't quite good enough for my money. But I would buy the occasional fill-in arc when it was Marcos Martin or Javier Pulido doing the artwork, or the Roger Stern/Lee Weeks stories because those were worth my money. And if every issue was done by one of those guys, I would have bought every issue. So, like you, I have no problem with double-shipping in principle, as long as the quality is there in every issue. But that's the trick.
  
  Of the titles listed that are going twice-monthly, Aquaman is the only one I currently get. I'm a year behind on it, and I haven't read any issues from the current creative team, so I can't speak to the current quality of the book. But let's say they get Jeff Parker back on the book and give him an artist at least the caliber of Paul Pellitier. I would get that book at $2.99 and twice-monthly assuming that creative team did every issue. But we all know that cannot happen. Even if Jeff were able to write all those issues, you're going to need at least one more artist doing at least half those issues in a given year. So you're going to need to give me Jeff Parker (or someone I like equally well) and at least two artists of Paul Pellitier’s ability or better. And I don't see DC as being able to do that with the group of creators they are currently employing.
  
  Locking in Tom King was a step in the right direction for DC. I'll have to see who else they come up with before I get excited.

  And certainly the lack of creative teams I am interested in has been the bar for entry for me to a lot of the DC books of the last few years. So even at $3/issue, double-shipping, if it is not a team I want, then I am not up for 2 of those a month, or even one.
  
  I guess the reason that double-shipping at Marvel has not been a bother to me is that, probably first and foremost, I am more writer-centered than artist-centered. In fact, I would call a knowledgeable or trained eye for art in comics is my blind spot (which is not to say that there aren't artists I love, and others that I am strongly not into, but I think I spend less conscious attention on the art than I do the writing). So, for me, the titles that would double-ship would almost always still be done by the writer that had attracted me to the book in the first place.

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• RedRight88 Posts: 2,207

  February 2016

  Anyone else thinking that Wildstorm has been returned to its own universe?
  

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• playdohsrepublic Posts: 1,377

  February 2016

  With Grayson out of the mix it looks like I'm out of DC again. Maybe I'll try Flash for the umpteenth time but I doubt I'll stick with it. I only go to the comic store maybe once every other month, and the last thing my wallet needs is a double shipping book.

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• DoctorDoom Posts: 2,586

  February 2016

  bralinator said:

  Hmm... they have my curiosity. Hope they can keep my attention. I was also curious about Convergence. Perhaps they learned their lesson.

  Can't wait for Cgs' second Convergence episode!

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• Evening639 Posts: 368

  February 2016

  bralinator said:

  How long has it been since they had an ongoing $2.99 book that wasn't aimed exclusively at kiddies?

  The last $2.99 ongoing Marvel had that I know of was G. Willow Wilson's first volume of Ms. Marvel. That book got sucked into the Secret Wars event and spit back out as Volume 2 with a 40-page first issue priced at $4.99 and settled into a $3.99 cover price.
  
  
  As far as the main subject of this thread, DC's Rebirth, I don't really need much convincing since I'm already a DC fan who's been enjoying a variety of current titles. However, this new direction that Johns is hinting at combined with the $2.99 price tag is certainly going to encourage me to try more titles.
  
  

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• [Deleted User] Posts: 0

  February 2016

  Well, Didio and company have certainly simplified things for the noivice reader.

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• Torchsong Posts: 2,794

  February 2016

  Wake me up when this doesn't work and we've got DC Comic's "Afterbirth"
  
  :)
  
  (You know I'm buying the Supergirl books... )

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• Evening639 Posts: 368

  February 2016 edited February 2016

  Torchsong said:

  Wake me up when this doesn't work and we've got DC Comic's "Afterbirth"

  Of course the only logical follow-up to DC's Afterbirth will be a six-issue mini-series entitled DC Comics: Lochia.
  
  
  
  
  

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  February 2016

  Evening639 said:

  Torchsong said:

  Wake me up when this doesn't work and we've got DC Comic's "Afterbirth"

  Of course the only logical follow-up to DC's Afterbirth will be a six-issue mini-series entitled DC Comics: Lochia.

  I’d much rather read DC Comic’s “Cutting the Cord.”
  

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• Evening639 Posts: 368

  February 2016 edited February 2016

  Evening639 said:

  Torchsong said:

  Wake me up when this doesn't work and we've got DC Comic's "Afterbirth"

  Of course the only logical follow-up to DC's Afterbirth will be a six-issue mini-series entitled DC Comics: Lochia.

  Y'know, in another thread I recently wrote thoughtful and reflective review of two excellent indie graphic novels well worth checking out and I could hear crickets chirping after posting it. In this thread I write a one sentence joke about vaginal discharge and five minutes later somebody awards me with a "LOL." I guess I know my audience now.
  
  Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to find an appropriate thread to share this knee-slapper of a limerick I just read about a fellow named McSweeny. I don't want to spoil it here but let's just say it ends with him playing a very naughty trick on his girlfriend! Ta-ta!
  
  

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• DAR Posts: 1,128

  March 2016

  I've mostly been away from the Big 2 for a few years, but if I hear good things I'll pick something up in a trade

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  March 2016 edited March 2016

  Not sure if this counts as part of Rebirth or not, but it's probably the best idea DC’s been a part of in several years. It's been announced there will be a six-issue crossover miniseries with Gotham Academy and Boom’s Lumberjanes starting in June. And the announcement was an exclusive in the Village Voice. That should get them some new readers if nothing else will. Now all that remains is to see if they can keep them.

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• mwhitt80 Posts: 4,638

  March 2016

  Ughhh why is lumberjanes slumming it. ;)
  I love that book

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  March 2016

  mwhitt80 said:

  Ughhh why is lumberjanes slumming it. ;)
  I love that book

  I'd be very curious to see how much overlap the two titles currently have in readership, and which title gets the bigger bump (if any) after the crossover.
  

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• mwhitt80 Posts: 4,638

  March 2016 edited March 2016

  +1 to @nweathington I'm kinda wondering the same thing
  
  I don't read Gotham Academy

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• nweathington Posts: 6,748

  March 2016

  mwhitt80 said:

  +1 to @nweathington I'm kinda wondering the same thing
  
  I don't read Gotham Academy

  I read the first trade. I didn't enjoy it as much as Lumberjanes, where it’s more anything goes, but I thought it was a decent story. It didn't quite make the cut to stay on my pull list, but it would certainly be the first DC book I would suggest to any fan of Lumberjanes.

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• Torchsong Posts: 2,794

  March 2016

  Apparently Killing Joke never happened now. Some group called The Fugue has been planting fake memories in Barbara Gordon for some time now.
  
  Which means Oracle never happened.
  
  Hope someone lets the JLA, the Birds of Prey, Dick Grayson, Marv and Wendy, and Stephanie know...
  
  Dangit, DC, what the hell?
  

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• bralinator Posts: 5,967

  March 2016

  Torchsong said:

  Apparently Killing Joke never happened now. Some group called The Fugue has been planting fake memories in Barbara Gordon for some time now.
  
  Which means Oracle never happened.
  
  Hope someone lets the JLA, the Birds of Prey, Dick Grayson, Marv and Wendy, and Stephanie know...
  
  Dangit, DC, what the hell?
  

  And so the unraveling begins...
  
  As I'm sure you know, the Killing Joke was never meant to be canon, but the story resonated so strongly and with such impact, it crept into continuity anyway.
  

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• CaptShazam Posts: 1,178

  March 2016

  I thought with Convergence everything happened.

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