Saw it last night and it was...okay. Kinda typical "dark" Zack Snyder-style movie without as much slow motion. BUT I thought the beginning was a bit slow and a little confusing as some parts seemed unrelated. On the other hand, the acting performances were great (Supes, Bats, WW, and Lois)! I was a bit disappointed that the co-stars were basically only videos from a computer file, but I guess that's one way to include them without sacrificing that much time from the Trinity. Oh, and I agree with luke52 and torchsong: that was a good villain, but that wasn't Lex Luthor. Lex isn't crazy. He was more like a less crazy Joker. Okay, well, I guess he is the "new Lex Luthor." So yeah, my rating would be about a 7-ish, too. I was entertained and also a bit surprised at some things, but during the Bats vs. Supes fight I was also feeling sad. I guess my childhood was rebelling against it.
Could've used fewer Bat-mares, the editing was a mess, and the "Martha" truce was a bit contrived. Affleck was good, Eisenberg was awful (unless it was Heath Ledger's Lex Luthor), Caville was underused, and Gadot was a desperately welcome breath of fresh air.
Thought it was good. I'd give it a 6 in terms of superhero movies. Wife and kids liked it too. Two and a half hours made for a loooong movie though. Could've shaved about 45 minutes and definitely too many dream sequences.
In spite of harsh criticism of the film, Zac and Co. will be going forward and further with this franchise. BvS has made an estimated $170.1Million this weekend, which marks a studio best for Warner Bros. And worldwide, it punched out the Avengers with a $424Million debut. That beats Avengers’ $392.5M opening. It still needs to earn $376M to break even, but that shouldn't be a problem.
I liked the nod to "The Dark Knight Returns" at the end with Superman's heartbeat.
Also, I've always thought that in the Marvel series, what an awesome scene it would be if Cap dies saving the Earth and they have a huge military funeral for him in Washington complete with "Amazing Grace" on bagpipes. Zach Snyder, you plagiarizing bastard!
Did anyone else think that was Mantis killing Batman in the Parademon dream sequence?
Didn't pick up on this, but thought it very cool ... in the Star Labs video footage showing the creation of Cyborg, the "living material" type stuff that merges with him is apparently a Mother Box.
Do you think if Batman found out that the Joker's mother was also named Martha, they would get start getting along, too?
The funny thing is, when Thomas Wayne said her name during the opening sequence, I consciously thought "That was odd, I wonder why they felt the need to add that."
Then later when I remembered Martha Kent, I thought, "That's a nice, subtle nod to emphasize the similarities and differences to Superman's and Batman's childhoods."
How I ever allowed myself to use the word "subtle" in reference to a Zach Snyder film is beyond me.
Hey, can we all agree that Lois Lane is a frigging moron? What the hell sense did it make to throw the kryptonite spear in the water? Dumb ass.
I stood up in the theater and screamed "NOOOO!" like Mark Waid did in Man of Steel.
Lois ain't that dumb. :)
At that point, the movie was so ridiculous, that I assumed she threw it in the water so we could have a scene with Aquaman leaping from that sunken pit with the spear held high. Because that was the only way I could make sense of why they'd do that.
Hey, can we all agree that Lois Lane is a frigging moron? What the hell sense did it make to throw the kryptonite spear in the water? Dumb ass.
I stood up in the theater and screamed "NOOOO!" like Mark Waid did in Man of Steel.
Lois ain't that dumb. :)
At that point, the movie was so ridiculous, that I assumed she threw it in the water so we could have a scene with Aquaman leaping from that sunken pit with the spear held high. Because that was the only way I could make sense of why they'd do that.
Not because I thought what she did was all that ridiculous, and I also thought it was a nice homage to Superman (1978), but I would like that, with Aquaman, to be a scene in the extended version due on "home video" (still calling it that? - I've already pre-ordered the digital version only from Amazon). If anything, what I was really waiting for, actually watching it in the theater for the first time, was for Batman to get it and stab Doomsday himself. I've heard others say that Wonder Woman could've been the one to stab Doomsday.
I went in with purposely lowered expectations, because I was in the mood to see a blockbuster film, something I haven't done in a while, and I probably would have enjoyed anything at the moment I was in the theater, as long as it had action and pretty pictures to look at. And for the most part, I enjoyed myself. I knew it wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible, either.
It's not a film that lingers well after the fact, though, and much of it felt like a mess to me in hindsight.
Say what you will about "Man of Steel", but at least it had a story with recognizable beats that built to something. "BvS", though, is all over the place. It jumps from scene to scene, often feeling like someone threw a bunch of script pages in the air and placed them randomly alongside one another. There's a point where Perry White makes a joke about Clark Kent "clicking his feels and going to Kansas". Do we get the logical edit into a scene of Clark Kent in Kansas, completing the gag? No, I think we cut to Wonder Woman. Or Batman. Or Luthor. Or Lois. I honestly don't even recall anymore.
There's a bunch of political intrigue that feels like it belongs in another film. Are we supposed to believe that the government thinks Superman killed a bunch of African warlords with bullets? Time is wasted on whether or not Holly Hunter will grant Luthor his export license, but I guess that never mattered, because he ships the Kryptonite in anyway. Most people are focusing on the dream sequences as superfluous, and they are, but there's so much more that's not necessary.
And about those dream sequences- for all the awkward groundwork-laying in Marvel films like Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron, it was never as awkward as what we got here. Maybe the Thor dream sequence in Ultron comes close, but that still didn't feel like the trailer within a film that we get with Batman's dream.
It's not all bad - Affleck and Gadot are fine, Irons is great, I even appreciated Eisenberg trying something unusual with Luthor (though just once I'd like to see someone go cool and menacing as opposed to over the top and crazy). Cavill doesn't get to expand much on what he did in Man of Steel, but I think he does what he can with the role.
The hints we get of Batman's backstory made me interested in what he's been up to all these years, and I thought did a better job of establishing a DC universe than that tedious stretch of Wonder Woman clicking on videos on a laptop. I would have been fine if they'd simply let the logos on Luthor's files be our hint of the other heroes. Although, it's a little silly that Luthor took the time to create logos for each of them.
Still, I enjoyed it as I was watching it, faults and all. It's still something to see all those DC heroes on the big screen after all this time. I doubt if I'll watch it again any time soon, though. Unless my wife wants to watch it, and she currently has no interest, it won't even be a future rental.
There's a bunch of political intrigue that feels like it belongs in another film... Time is wasted on whether or not Holly Hunter will grant Luthor his export license, but I guess that never mattered, because he ships the Kryptonite in anyway.
The Warner Bros are just taking thier ques from the most successful franchise ever. When you need a quick jumpstart nothing gets the kids fired up like trade negotiations.
Batman V Superman is not a movie. It is a bunch of individual scenes cobbled together into a package that tries to resemble a plot. There are some scenes I liked, but those I did did not outweigh the others.
Lex Luthor is more psychotic than menacing, and that's where they lost me there. Instead of being calculated, he was manic, scatterbrained and often outlandish.
Battfleck was decent, but Snyder missed the point of the character here too, just as he did Supes in MoS. Unless you're the pulp era Batman that nobody knows other than the most hardcore of fans, Batman does not kill, and does not use guns. Major strike out for me there. Alfred was perfect though, which was nice to not be annoyed by a character for a change.
Wonder Woman was the star, and I look forward to her movie quite a bit. Especially since Snyder isn't directing.
As for the dossier files they threw in? Unnecessary. Felt like viral online content that was added to the film after the fact because they felt they needed to let us know justice was dawning. And the future flash, quite literally? I didn't like when Age of Ultron did it, and I certainly didn't enjoy it here. Most of all, it looked and felt like Injustice: Gods Among Us, which is fine as a game, but I don't want it as a live action movie. Sorry dudes.
Doomsday...oy. Hello, Nuclear Man from Superman IV crossed with The Abomination from The Incredible Hulk. His powers are ALL OVER THE PLACE. So were Superman's depending on the point of the movie and how vulnerable be needed to be, I might add.
Lois reverted back to a damsel in distress, which was very distressing.
And that ending? Yeah, that's gonna stick. Totes. They had to go there after barely two movies? And the public, after turning on Supes all movie, suddenly cared again? Cool guys.
I give it a 4.5 out of 10. Best part was when I got to get a cheesesteak and waffle fries afterwards.
saw it last night. It was better than I expected. Or at least I enjoyed it more than I expected to. It's not nec a "good" movie. nor do I feel they made good choices or went in good directions with this project as a whole from inception, but it was entertaining and enjoyable. Much better than man of steel, but this "Superman" is still an awful interpretation and he really doesn't have any real arc or growth or presence in bvs. Although cavil is still likable regardless. Batman makes this movie. I suspected he would and was optimistic this might turn out to be the best screen batman to date. Personally, I'm thinking so. Even with the couple issues I did have with his portrayal. Wonder Woman impressed me a great deal too. I desperately wanted to see more of her and I'm glad because she was a wild card for me going in. Personally I was worried about this actress and the characters inclusion to begin with. Her accent did kindve bug me a little though. The worst aspect (character / performance / story etc) was eisenberg / Luthor (which I was already predisposed to disliking). However, had he been any other character in any other movie, he might've been mildly entertaining. But here, even though he acted well, everything about him was simply "wtf"?! The story, direction, ideas and concepts were all over the place and very little was followed through with or resolved. All in all it could've been a lot worse though and I truly expected it to be. It's not what I wanted or what I think it should've been. but it's ok. Stellar moments but not stellar as a whole. I'll say 3 to 31/2 out of 5? As a fan of this universe and these characters I was mostly pleased.
7/10 I wasn't dying to see it so my expectations were not that high. I agree Batman and Wonder Woman makes this movie great. Doomsday could have used a lot less fireworks. Maybe when Supes comes back he'll be a lot less brooding and more of the hopeful, inspiring character he is supposed to be...however certain parallels to things like Easter can continue to be drawn.
Battfleck was decent, but Snyder missed the point of the character here too, just as he did Supes in MoS.
I know I'm not saying anything original here, but after this film, I'm convinced that Snyder simply doesn't get the concept of heroism. Or superheroes. They're either doing what they do because they're borderline psychotic, or they constantly question if they should even be a hero. And not in a sensible way, but in a self-centered, "why should I even bother doing this", way.
Bad enough that we had Jonathan Kent's attitude last film (which maybe they reversed in this film - I don't know - that sequence screamed "pee break" to me, so I have no idea what happened other than he was stacking some rocks on a hill). But this time we had Martha Kent telling Clark he never owed the world anything. I imagine in Snyder's Spider-Man, Uncle Ben would tell Peter that "With great power comes the ability to not give a shit."
You know, instead of the title being Batman Vs Superman, they opted for the simple 'v' which is usually how it's done in a legal case. Premonition perhaps?
They should take the Anti-Zack signatures, print them out, and do a short clip of Cavill's Superman heat visioning it. :)
Then have him flip the audience the bird and fly off.
Then, to REALLY piss everyone off, have Cavill recreate the scene they ended all the Reeve/Routh Superman movies with...where he smiles and winks at the camera before flying off.
You could harness the nerd rage from that and power a small city for at least a month.
Hmm... I am actually in the anti-Snyder camp. Here's my full take on the movie after getting a chance to see if for free. I'm of the opinion that only die-hard DC fans and indiscriminate movie goers could have enjoyed this dark, gloomy, unhappy, dreary universe that Zack Snyder has created for this franchise. It really demonstrates a soulless step in the wrong direction, as far as I'm concerned.
I found there to be no one to root for, except maybe Wonder Woman, and her motivations were unclear. Everyone was so unhappy and angst-ridden it brought me down. The movie finally comes alive when the only woman on screen who can make a decision shows up in costume and there's an actual joke spoken. And in spite of Snyder's fetishism towards kick-ass women, she breathes some life into this movie. Even the music changed when she turned up. And speaking of music, was the semi-iconic Man of Steel theme music ever played at any time in this picture, or even Batman's theme from the FAR superior Christian Bale trilogy? I don't think so. What a misstep. Letting Hans Zimmer hand off the music to Junkie XL was a mistake, too.
As for Batman, he was serviceable, I guess, but what was his beef here? I mean, what was wrong with him? I've grown up thinking that his entire angle has been him trying to mete out justice without killing the bad guys. The video games actually prevent him from killing. Even Heath Ledger's Joker wasn't purposely killed by the Dark Knight, but this Batman wants to kill Superman? "Do you bleed? You will." And even if your response is "he's done it in the comics" there should still be some in-story context for this. This movie totally dispenses with the idea that Batman doesn't want to kill. He's shooting guns all over the place in this film. He is killing without any second thought.
As for Affleck himself, yeah he's a good actor, but he's no brooding Deniro-type. He may be the best actor in this movie (sans Jeremy Irons), but he did NOT pull off a believable Batman. He's got "privileged celebrity" down pat, so he can do Bruce Wayne, but his Batman is just... 'off'.
And as for Superman, he was truly under-served here. Where is his light? Doesn't he represent the light versus Batman's darkness? I believe this is the darkest he's ever appeared on celluloid and possibly comics too. Always struck with shadow and darkness. And why is he still so conflicted? And does Lois really mean more to him than the world? And mom and pop are still filling him with more tales of hopelessness and failures. Not to mention how he is totally outsmarted by everyone in this movie. And he can hear Lois is falling, but not that his mom is being kidnapped? Sheesh. This is Super-man?
And as for both characters, what lessons are there for children seeing this movie? These guys are completely portrayed out-of-character, betraying what's always been generally cool about the heroes. And they just keep pounding and pounding on each other. Typical Snyder signature, not counting his usual style over substance, speed ramping, and slow motion shots.
And it feels like nothing is put into context in this movie. The whole ambience of this film was mysterious and strange, like some weird Japanese horror-film. Where was the humor? I don't want Schumacher camp, but is there really no sweetness and light in this universe? Even the Nolan trilogy had some dark humor embedded in it. This.has.none.whatsoever. It felt like it was basically a retelling of Watchmen with different action figures. When did we get some heroics we could root for? Maybe in one Batman action scene? Where was the basic story-telling craft? It's like we arrived up as a fly-on-the-wall and missed what story beats came before or what will come after, so we have to fill in the gaps ourselves. It felt like all set-up and franchise property product placement - an overlong commercial for future movies with nothing at it's heart. Cripes, the DC Animated 'Batman: The Dark Knight Returns' was FAR superior to this movie and more believable in the heroes' motivations.
Don't get me started on all the failures of logic and poor writing, because Zack Snyder's basic tone-deafness for this universe is enough to destroy this movie's credibility for me. The noisy CGI and the blackness all over the screen was just too much for me. The hokiness and contrived plot holes could be a whole other rant. And the murdering crook that killed the Wayne's but left behind the pearls... did we really need the origin of Batmanagain? Got any fresh approaches?
"The movie I felt like didn't really have a heart. It was certainly fucking humorless, there was nothing funny going on in that world whatsoever, but it had lots of spectacle. Like you can't take that away from (Zack) Snyder. Boy, he knows how to like compose a frame and how to setup a shot. Beautiful visual stylist but you need more than just the pictures, you need like characterization and these characters seemed off character, particularly Superman."
And just who was that supposed to be that was trying to warn Batman in the dream/premonition? And who is it that came up with all the hero logos for Luthor's files on metahumans? And speaking of Luthor, what an over-the-top, clichéd performance. Like some kind of Wes Anderson biopic. What was he doing? Did Zack not think to ask him to dial it back a little?
I will concede that this film is better than Fant4stic Four, but not by much. It's only slightly better than Freddy Vs Jason or AVP: Requiem because the pictures are prettier. I don't lay the blame for this movie's failures entirely on Zack Snyder. I mostly blame WB. Consider this, reports are circulating that the movie 'Suicide Squad' is undergoing reshoots now specifically designed to add more humor to the film and lighten its tone. despite having a trailer packed with jokes and superbly edited to Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," insiders say the film itself wasn't actually that funny and that every joke in the movie was shown in that trailer. Full story here.
I think DC/WB needs more of a Kevin Feige-type at the helm than Geoff "Avi Arad" Johns. This movie was a disaster on almost every level in my opinion. I actually saw it for free and still couldn't wait for it to end. No fun at all. I could go on and on, but I've blathered on way too much already. To those that enjoyed BvS, I'm very happy for you, but for me, this was an excruciating experience like watching a train-wreck. Snyder is much more interested in the technical aspect of filmmaking, preferring visual perfection over character development. All of his films look immaculate. His visuals are stunning: Every frame could be a painting. That is his oeuvre along with all of his movies being weighty and dark. I actually hope DC gives these properties a breather and fires Snyder before moving forward. Or demotes him to DP instead of director.
/RANT off
The movie is currently sitting at a 29% approval rate at RottenTomatoes.com with 288 reviews. It's worldwide box office take is now north of half a billion dollars according to BoxOfficeMojo.com. Only another $300 million needed to break even.
Kevin Smith recanted: "I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
And what's funny about that is that when I saw it...many many miles away...I also whispered "ParaDemons" with my eyes wide open and a big grin on my face.
My wife, of course, asked WTF a Parademon was, but the magic was still undeniable. :)
Kevin Smith recanted: "I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
And what's funny about that is that when I saw it...many many miles away...I also whispered "ParaDemons" with my eyes wide open and a big grin on my face.
My wife, of course, asked WTF a Parademon was, but the magic was still undeniable. :)
Actually he didn't exactly recant, that's his 3rd time commenting on it. I expect that kind of back-peddling from him since he is essentially a DC shill and coming out like he did, with his first honest impression upset some folks at DC and he got a phone call. According to DailySuperhero.com his views only slightly altered. After his second viewing he said:
"There was enough stuff in there, and again, I'll call it the parademon theory. Which is like that was enough. It didn't f****** matter what happened from there in on out. It didn't matter if the movie made sense, it didn't matter if it was well made as a Marvel movie or a f****** whatever, didn't matter that you know, it didn't have a moral. That's the thing man, Deadpool has a moral. Doesn't matter what you look like on the outside, its what's on the inside. I don't think Batman V Superman has a moral. I've been trying to think about it since I've seen it twice, or once and a 3 quarter times. Not quite sure, I guess the moral might be don't judge a book by its cover. Maybe? I don't know man, but I like my superhero stories to have morality. So in any event, if you like it way more than me, f***ing awesome. Keep that enthusiasm up. Maybe I'll f***ing join you on the next round. Believe me by the f***ing second viewing of this movie I was like 'yeah yeah man, alright.'"
For the record, the parademon sequence was cool, weird, and visually exciting. I would have liked the whole movie to have been like that. It would've been far better.
Hans Zimmer did BOTH of those soundtracks and was heavily involved in this film's soundtrack. Although Zimmer is credited as the main composer for the film, he recruited Junkie XL to do the heavy lifting. Too bad he failed to lift two GREAT themes.
So is this movie going to claim the record for most money made by a film that at best was thought to be "just ok"?
From just listening to people at work (I work in a large hospital), comic book readers think it was ok and everyone else thinks it was a mess of a movie.
Before the release, A lot of people seemed confused by the title. They could not understand why Superman & Batman would be against each other.
So is this movie going to claim the record for most money made by a film that at best was thought to be "just ok"?
From just listening to people at work (I work in a large hospital), comic book readers think it was ok and everyone else thinks it was a mess of a movie.
Before the release, A lot of people seemed confused by the title. They could not understand why Superman & Batman would be against each other.
It did have a huge opening weekend, because the idea of Batman and Superman together in a movie, and fighting in a movie, is an enormous hook. I always expected there to be huge turnout for this movie.
But I also think the second weekend dropoff will be tremendous. When the rubber hits the road on word of mouth, and maybe people who might give something like this a second viewing, as so many did the latest Star Wars, don't end up materializing in significant numbers. We already saw a record setting Friday-Sunday dropoff during the opening weekend. And I wonder whether that first to second weekend dropoff might break a record, too.
But, again, to be fair, that dropoff was a fall from an amazing height. Huge expectation was built for this movie, as properties go, they are clearly some of the biggest characters that there are to be owned. And there was huge turnout. It is not like the movie has not already financially performed.
But what will be harder to measure, but I think may end up catching up with WB, is that, as @CaptShazam put it, the movie itself was just ok. Heck, I wouldn't even go that far. Is there a knock-on effect that comes from releasing a movie that has a huge first weekend, then a really sharp dropoff (assuming that Friday-Sunday trend continues), and just... wasn't as good as it should have been.
I mean...it was a Batman versus Superman movie.
It was a BATMAN AND SUPERMAN MOVIE. That reportedly had a $250M budget.
Shouldn't it have been great?
Not 'better than I expected', or 'better than what the critics said', or 'better than what the haters are saying'.
But, actually, great?
I think it wasn't. And I feel a lot of people, even those who liked it a lot better than I did, rarely get to the point of sounding enthusiastic that they just saw a totally great movie, that they can't wait to see again, and when you were a kid could you believe we would ever get movies like THIS, and...
I'm just not seeing much of that kind of enthusiasm. For a $250M movie that has Batman and Superman in it. Together. Fighting each other and starting the Justice League.
And I feel like that is going to be a brand problem for WB. That maybe showing up for that opening weekend on their movies will go from, 'Can't wait!' to 'Wait and see.' And, sure, people will still show up for Batman, because, Batman. But maybe the hit the brand takes will show up more on whether or not someone takes a chance on, say, Aquaman. Or Cyborg.
Because when you can't make Batman and Superman together be awesome, then how much are you going to trust what they do with the rest of their universe?
So is this movie going to claim the record for most money made by a film that at best was thought to be "just ok"?
From just listening to people at work (I work in a large hospital), comic book readers think it was ok and everyone else thinks it was a mess of a movie.
Before the release, A lot of people seemed confused by the title. They could not understand why Superman & Batman would be against each other.
Lots of movies that are just ok, or even actively terrible, do extremely well. Look at the Avatar, the number 1 movie ever, or the entire Transformers series.
And my wife's cousin went out of her way to asked me "Why do Batman and Superman have to fight?" This weekend.
Comments
I wasn't expecting Merchant/Ivory, or a movie that in about a year's time we'd be hearing "And the Oscar goes to..."
Because we all know that's gonna be the Deadpool movie. ;)
Obviously there are spoilers. Also, I have been having problems with my editing software so I don't know how well this turned out.
However, I'm interested in @David_D's critique.
Also, I've always thought that in the Marvel series, what an awesome scene it would be if Cap dies saving the Earth and they have a huge military funeral for him in Washington complete with "Amazing Grace" on bagpipes. Zach Snyder, you plagiarizing bastard!
Did anyone else think that was Mantis killing Batman in the Parademon dream sequence?
Lois ain't that dumb. :)
Then later when I remembered Martha Kent, I thought, "That's a nice, subtle nod to emphasize the similarities and differences to Superman's and Batman's childhoods."
How I ever allowed myself to use the word "subtle" in reference to a Zach Snyder film is beyond me.
I went in with purposely lowered expectations, because I was in the mood to see a blockbuster film, something I haven't done in a while, and I probably would have enjoyed anything at the moment I was in the theater, as long as it had action and pretty pictures to look at. And for the most part, I enjoyed myself. I knew it wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible, either.
It's not a film that lingers well after the fact, though, and much of it felt like a mess to me in hindsight.
Say what you will about "Man of Steel", but at least it had a story with recognizable beats that built to something. "BvS", though, is all over the place. It jumps from scene to scene, often feeling like someone threw a bunch of script pages in the air and placed them randomly alongside one another. There's a point where Perry White makes a joke about Clark Kent "clicking his feels and going to Kansas". Do we get the logical edit into a scene of Clark Kent in Kansas, completing the gag? No, I think we cut to Wonder Woman. Or Batman. Or Luthor. Or Lois. I honestly don't even recall anymore.
There's a bunch of political intrigue that feels like it belongs in another film. Are we supposed to believe that the government thinks Superman killed a bunch of African warlords with bullets? Time is wasted on whether or not Holly Hunter will grant Luthor his export license, but I guess that never mattered, because he ships the Kryptonite in anyway. Most people are focusing on the dream sequences as superfluous, and they are, but there's so much more that's not necessary.
And about those dream sequences- for all the awkward groundwork-laying in Marvel films like Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron, it was never as awkward as what we got here. Maybe the Thor dream sequence in Ultron comes close, but that still didn't feel like the trailer within a film that we get with Batman's dream.
It's not all bad - Affleck and Gadot are fine, Irons is great, I even appreciated Eisenberg trying something unusual with Luthor (though just once I'd like to see someone go cool and menacing as opposed to over the top and crazy). Cavill doesn't get to expand much on what he did in Man of Steel, but I think he does what he can with the role.
The hints we get of Batman's backstory made me interested in what he's been up to all these years, and I thought did a better job of establishing a DC universe than that tedious stretch of Wonder Woman clicking on videos on a laptop. I would have been fine if they'd simply let the logos on Luthor's files be our hint of the other heroes. Although, it's a little silly that Luthor took the time to create logos for each of them.
Still, I enjoyed it as I was watching it, faults and all. It's still something to see all those DC heroes on the big screen after all this time. I doubt if I'll watch it again any time soon, though. Unless my wife wants to watch it, and she currently has no interest, it won't even be a future rental.
Lex Luthor is more psychotic than menacing, and that's where they lost me there. Instead of being calculated, he was manic, scatterbrained and often outlandish.
Battfleck was decent, but Snyder missed the point of the character here too, just as he did Supes in MoS. Unless you're the pulp era Batman that nobody knows other than the most hardcore of fans, Batman does not kill, and does not use guns. Major strike out for me there. Alfred was perfect though, which was nice to not be annoyed by a character for a change.
Wonder Woman was the star, and I look forward to her movie quite a bit. Especially since Snyder isn't directing.
As for the dossier files they threw in? Unnecessary. Felt like viral online content that was added to the film after the fact because they felt they needed to let us know justice was dawning. And the future flash, quite literally? I didn't like when Age of Ultron did it, and I certainly didn't enjoy it here. Most of all, it looked and felt like Injustice: Gods Among Us, which is fine as a game, but I don't want it as a live action movie. Sorry dudes.
Doomsday...oy. Hello, Nuclear Man from Superman IV crossed with The Abomination from The Incredible Hulk. His powers are ALL OVER THE PLACE. So were Superman's depending on the point of the movie and how vulnerable be needed to be, I might add.
Lois reverted back to a damsel in distress, which was very distressing.
And that ending? Yeah, that's gonna stick. Totes. They had to go there after barely two movies? And the public, after turning on Supes all movie, suddenly cared again? Cool guys.
I give it a 4.5 out of 10. Best part was when I got to get a cheesesteak and waffle fries afterwards.
Batman makes this movie. I suspected he would and was optimistic this might turn out to be the best screen batman to date. Personally, I'm thinking so. Even with the couple issues I did have with his portrayal. Wonder Woman impressed me a great deal too. I desperately wanted to see more of her and I'm glad because she was a wild card for me going in. Personally I was worried about this actress and the characters inclusion to begin with. Her accent did kindve bug me a little though.
The worst aspect (character / performance / story etc) was eisenberg / Luthor (which I was already predisposed to disliking). However, had he been any other character in any other movie, he might've been mildly entertaining. But here, even though he acted well, everything about him was simply "wtf"?!
The story, direction, ideas and concepts were all over the place and very little was followed through with or resolved. All in all it could've been a lot worse though and I truly expected it to be. It's not what I wanted or what I think it should've been. but it's ok. Stellar moments but not stellar as a whole.
I'll say 3 to 31/2 out of 5?
As a fan of this universe and these characters I was mostly pleased.
I wasn't dying to see it so my expectations were not that high. I agree Batman and Wonder Woman makes this movie great. Doomsday could have used a lot less fireworks. Maybe when Supes comes back he'll be a lot less brooding and more of the hopeful, inspiring character he is supposed to be...however certain parallels to things like Easter can continue to be drawn.
Bad enough that we had Jonathan Kent's attitude last film (which maybe they reversed in this film - I don't know - that sequence screamed "pee break" to me, so I have no idea what happened other than he was stacking some rocks on a hill). But this time we had Martha Kent telling Clark he never owed the world anything. I imagine in Snyder's Spider-Man, Uncle Ben would tell Peter that "With great power comes the ability to not give a shit."
http://www.change.org/p/warner-bros-boot-zack-snyder-off-of-justice-league
It has garnered over 10K signatures. Although, with the amount of money made so far, there is no way WB will remove Zack from this franchise.
Another fan has launched a petition to keep Zack Snyder on the next installment of Justice League.
http://www.change.org/p/warner-brothers-keep-zack-snyder-on-for-justice-league
Looks like over 3K fans agree with him.
And in other crazy online petitions, another 1,800 super-fans have signed a new Change.org petition calling for the release of the R-rated cut of "BvS" to be released in theaters.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/fan-petition-calls-for-r-rated-batman-v-superman-to-screen-in-theaters
You know, instead of the title being Batman Vs Superman, they opted for the simple 'v' which is usually how it's done in a legal case. Premonition perhaps?
Then have him flip the audience the bird and fly off.
Then, to REALLY piss everyone off, have Cavill recreate the scene they ended all the Reeve/Routh Superman movies with...where he smiles and winks at the camera before flying off.
You could harness the nerd rage from that and power a small city for at least a month.
:)
Hmm... I am actually in the anti-Snyder camp. Here's my full take on the movie after getting a chance to see if for free. I'm of the opinion that only die-hard DC fans and indiscriminate movie goers could have enjoyed this dark, gloomy, unhappy, dreary universe that Zack Snyder has created for this franchise. It really demonstrates a soulless step in the wrong direction, as far as I'm concerned.
I found there to be no one to root for, except maybe Wonder Woman, and her motivations were unclear. Everyone was so unhappy and angst-ridden it brought me down. The movie finally comes alive when the only woman on screen who can make a decision shows up in costume and there's an actual joke spoken. And in spite of Snyder's fetishism towards kick-ass women, she breathes some life into this movie. Even the music changed when she turned up. And speaking of music, was the semi-iconic Man of Steel theme music ever played at any time in this picture, or even Batman's theme from the FAR superior Christian Bale trilogy? I don't think so. What a misstep. Letting Hans Zimmer hand off the music to Junkie XL was a mistake, too.
As for Batman, he was serviceable, I guess, but what was his beef here? I mean, what was wrong with him? I've grown up thinking that his entire angle has been him trying to mete out justice without killing the bad guys. The video games actually prevent him from killing. Even Heath Ledger's Joker wasn't purposely killed by the Dark Knight, but this Batman wants to kill Superman? "Do you bleed? You will." And even if your response is "he's done it in the comics" there should still be some in-story context for this. This movie totally dispenses with the idea that Batman doesn't want to kill. He's shooting guns all over the place in this film. He is killing without any second thought.
As for Affleck himself, yeah he's a good actor, but he's no brooding Deniro-type. He may be the best actor in this movie (sans Jeremy Irons), but he did NOT pull off a believable Batman. He's got "privileged celebrity" down pat, so he can do Bruce Wayne, but his Batman is just... 'off'.
And as for Superman, he was truly under-served here. Where is his light? Doesn't he represent the light versus Batman's darkness? I believe this is the darkest he's ever appeared on celluloid and possibly comics too. Always struck with shadow and darkness. And why is he still so conflicted? And does Lois really mean more to him than the world? And mom and pop are still filling him with more tales of hopelessness and failures. Not to mention how he is totally outsmarted by everyone in this movie. And he can hear Lois is falling, but not that his mom is being kidnapped? Sheesh. This is Super-man?
And as for both characters, what lessons are there for children seeing this movie? These guys are completely portrayed out-of-character, betraying what's always been generally cool about the heroes. And they just keep pounding and pounding on each other. Typical Snyder signature, not counting his usual style over substance, speed ramping, and slow motion shots.
And it feels like nothing is put into context in this movie. The whole ambience of this film was mysterious and strange, like some weird Japanese horror-film. Where was the humor? I don't want Schumacher camp, but is there really no sweetness and light in this universe? Even the Nolan trilogy had some dark humor embedded in it. This.has.none.whatsoever. It felt like it was basically a retelling of Watchmen with different action figures. When did we get some heroics we could root for? Maybe in one Batman action scene? Where was the basic story-telling craft? It's like we arrived up as a fly-on-the-wall and missed what story beats came before or what will come after, so we have to fill in the gaps ourselves. It felt like all set-up and franchise property product placement - an overlong commercial for future movies with nothing at it's heart. Cripes, the DC Animated 'Batman: The Dark Knight Returns' was FAR superior to this movie and more believable in the heroes' motivations.
Don't get me started on all the failures of logic and poor writing, because Zack Snyder's basic tone-deafness for this universe is enough to destroy this movie's credibility for me. The noisy CGI and the blackness all over the screen was just too much for me. The hokiness and contrived plot holes could be a whole other rant. And the murdering crook that killed the Wayne's but left behind the pearls... did we really need the origin of Batman again? Got any fresh approaches?
Even comic book super-fan and DC shill Kevin Smith said on a recent podcast: And just who was that supposed to be that was trying to warn Batman in the dream/premonition? And who is it that came up with all the hero logos for Luthor's files on metahumans? And speaking of Luthor, what an over-the-top, clichéd performance. Like some kind of Wes Anderson biopic. What was he doing? Did Zack not think to ask him to dial it back a little?
I will concede that this film is better than Fant4stic Four, but not by much. It's only slightly better than Freddy Vs Jason or AVP: Requiem because the pictures are prettier. I don't lay the blame for this movie's failures entirely on Zack Snyder. I mostly blame WB. Consider this, reports are circulating that the movie
'Suicide Squad' is undergoing reshoots now specifically designed to add more humor to the film and lighten its tone. despite having a trailer packed with jokes and superbly edited to Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," insiders say the film itself wasn't actually that funny and that every joke in the movie was shown in that trailer. Full story here.
I think DC/WB needs more of a Kevin Feige-type at the helm than Geoff "Avi Arad" Johns. This movie was a disaster on almost every level in my opinion. I actually saw it for free and still couldn't wait for it to end. No fun at all. I could go on and on, but I've blathered on way too much already. To those that enjoyed BvS, I'm very happy for you, but for me, this was an excruciating experience like watching a train-wreck. Snyder is much more interested in the technical aspect of filmmaking, preferring visual perfection over character development. All of his films look immaculate. His visuals are stunning: Every frame could be a painting. That is his oeuvre along with all of his movies being weighty and dark. I actually hope DC gives these properties a breather and fires Snyder before moving forward. Or demotes him to DP instead of director.
/RANT off
The movie is currently sitting at a 29% approval rate at RottenTomatoes.com with 288 reviews. It's worldwide box office take is now north of half a billion dollars according to BoxOfficeMojo.com. Only another $300 million needed to break even.
"I'd said the film didn't have any heart, but after the second viewing, I actually found the heart in #batmanvsuperman: it's in the viewer. And the viewer I watched the blockbuster with the second time was all agog, eyes as big as saucers. During the Knightmare sequence, we shared a moment that even elevated the flick for me: when the winged New Gods nasties attack #Batman and take him down, Jay (age 40) & I (age 45) simultaneously looked at one another and whispered reverently "ParaDemons." It was a beautiful moment shared by two lifelong fanboys who were delighted to see their childhood flash before their eyes."
And what's funny about that is that when I saw it...many many miles away...I also whispered "ParaDemons" with my eyes wide open and a big grin on my face.
My wife, of course, asked WTF a Parademon was, but the magic was still undeniable. :)
Where were THESE themes?
Hans Zimmer did BOTH of those soundtracks and was heavily involved in this film's soundtrack. Although Zimmer is credited as the main composer for the film, he recruited Junkie XL to do the heavy lifting. Too bad he failed to lift two GREAT themes.
Maybe music is just too important to me...
From just listening to people at work (I work in a large hospital), comic book readers think it was ok and everyone else thinks it was a mess of a movie.
Before the release, A lot of people seemed confused by the title. They could not understand why Superman & Batman would be against each other.
But I also think the second weekend dropoff will be tremendous. When the rubber hits the road on word of mouth, and maybe people who might give something like this a second viewing, as so many did the latest Star Wars, don't end up materializing in significant numbers. We already saw a record setting Friday-Sunday dropoff during the opening weekend. And I wonder whether that first to second weekend dropoff might break a record, too.
But, again, to be fair, that dropoff was a fall from an amazing height. Huge expectation was built for this movie, as properties go, they are clearly some of the biggest characters that there are to be owned. And there was huge turnout. It is not like the movie has not already financially performed.
But what will be harder to measure, but I think may end up catching up with WB, is that, as @CaptShazam put it, the movie itself was just ok. Heck, I wouldn't even go that far. Is there a knock-on effect that comes from releasing a movie that has a huge first weekend, then a really sharp dropoff (assuming that Friday-Sunday trend continues), and just... wasn't as good as it should have been.
I mean...it was a Batman versus Superman movie.
It was a BATMAN AND SUPERMAN MOVIE. That reportedly had a $250M budget.
Shouldn't it have been great?
Not 'better than I expected', or 'better than what the critics said', or 'better than what the haters are saying'.
But, actually, great?
I think it wasn't. And I feel a lot of people, even those who liked it a lot better than I did, rarely get to the point of sounding enthusiastic that they just saw a totally great movie, that they can't wait to see again, and when you were a kid could you believe we would ever get movies like THIS, and...
I'm just not seeing much of that kind of enthusiasm. For a $250M movie that has Batman and Superman in it. Together. Fighting each other and starting the Justice League.
And I feel like that is going to be a brand problem for WB. That maybe showing up for that opening weekend on their movies will go from, 'Can't wait!' to 'Wait and see.' And, sure, people will still show up for Batman, because, Batman. But maybe the hit the brand takes will show up more on whether or not someone takes a chance on, say, Aquaman. Or Cyborg.
Because when you can't make Batman and Superman together be awesome, then how much are you going to trust what they do with the rest of their universe?
And my wife's cousin went out of her way to asked me "Why do Batman and Superman have to fight?" This weekend.