It is difficult seeing Marvel acting like what comes off as a petulant child regarding beloved properties many of us have grown very fond of through the years. It appears to be painfully obvious that the characters don't mean to them (corporate leadership) what they mean to us (longtime fans).
There's ample evidence that this is all based solely on the licensing arrangements made with FOX for the FF and X-Men. Otherwise, the arrangements with Sony (Spider-Man) or Universal (The Hulk) would be resulting in similar actions, but they clearly aren't. FOX and Marvel are not playing nice, and it seems FOX has figured out a way to successfully exploit the Marvel properties with little involvement from Marvel so they don't look like they're going to relinquish their control on those licenses anytime soon.
Apparently Marvel seems committed to cutting their losses. They don't want to give FOX another dime of revenue either. They very likely made many good offers to FOX and those offers were presumably rejected, and Marvel/Disney don't bluff. That's all hypothesis based on many insider rumors and anecdotal evidence. In the end, these are their properties to diminish, exploit, or sell. It is a business after all. As young boys and girls reading our first Uncanny X-Men, there was no way this would have ever occurred to us. There was no way we could ever see this coming.
So this is just the latest news that I have seen about Marvel really just saying screw you to X-Men and the FF. I'm not really bothered by it because I have been pretty disillusioned by the merry company lately, but this just seems strange. I know Bleeding Cool likes to just throw stuff out there, but I am kind of confused by it. I mean is that Spider-Gwen in the front row? What do ya'll think?
On the are they/aren't they purging FF/X-Men issue: This image is pretty They Are.
And there was the cover of their 75th Anniversary giveaway magazine from last year:
Clearly, when it comes to making art choices for licensed products (the one that @WetRats posted is a licensed product, sold by someplace called Trends International, which seems to be a poster company.) Or when Marvel is printing and giving away their own promo material, like that 75th Anniversary magazine, they are making it the Spider-Man + The MCU lineup, and leaving out X-Men and Fantastic Four. And there have been plenty of stories about them not licensing movie toys from the Fox movies (though, despite that one statue cancellation, I don't know that we've seen non-movie X-toys disappear from the stores. They are just the comic designs not the movie designs. I don't pay much attention to toys, but I would be surprised if you were to go into a Target or Toys R' Us today and not be able to come out with a Wolverine.)
Whether these licensing battles are going to affect the comics though remains to be seen. Personally, I couldn't care less what is or isn't licensed. I know that is where the real money is, but I don't buy superhero posters or toys. I just care about the comics. So those are all that matter to me.
In the comics, at the moment, the FF characters have had big roles to play in Secret Wars so far (and the Avengers and New Avengers issues leading up to Secret War). Secret Wars is, perhaps more than anything, a Doom book. There are as many or more X-universe related miniseries for Secret War as Avengers ones. It feels like Hickman, Ribic, and the many other creators are getting good use out of these characters whether they are for sale on that lineup poster or not.
Could that all change on the other side of Secret Wars? Sure. But I would be very surprised. I also think the last thing you would want to do before taking all the X and FF toys away from the comics creators in the name of inter-studio pissing contests would be to have a huge summer event that reminds everyone how cool Doom, Reed, and the X-Men can be. To then get rid of them? Well. Anything is possible. But I will believe that when I see it.
And given that there are X-ladies in A-Force, and Human Torch in Uncanny Inhumans, and I think those are supposed to either take place in, or continue in, the post-Secret Wars continuity(?), then that seems like another sign of those characters staying in the comics.
As much as I would like to not believe the conspiracy theories about Marvel's "blacklisting" of X-Men and the FF, the evidence appears to be mounting. And I can understand it from a "business" point of view. I just hope that the fans aren't the ones that end up losing out in the end. As much as I love some some of those characters (The ever-lovin' blue eyed Thing is one of my all time favourites), it sure is nice to see some of my beloved C-listers get a little push. Cosmo is fairly prominent on the 2015 Marvel promo image!
Just a couple of random thoughts... - reading Secret Wars #1 it has a lot to do with the FF and in a weird way it seems like they are dying - also if 5 years ago wolverine wasn't in a promo someone would have been fired from Marvel, I mean leaving him out is the biggest evidence of something going fishy - and it just doesnt seem like good business, even if you don't own that movie chracter you still want them to do good right? - I don't think that the FF and X-Men will ever lose their place in Marvel, thats why this all seems so strange
Just a couple of random thoughts... - reading Secret Wars #1 it has a lot to do with the FF and in a weird way it seems like they are dying - also if 5 years ago wolverine wasn't in a promo someone would have been fired from Marvel, I mean leaving him out is the biggest evidence of something going fishy - and it just doesnt seem like good business, even if you don't own that movie chracter you still want them to do good right? - I don't think that the FF and X-Men will ever lose their place in Marvel, thats why this all seems so strange
All good questions.
"reading Secret Wars #1 it has a lot to do with the FF and in a weird way it seems like they are dying"
Sure. But, then again, the whole universe was dying. I think it says something about the gravitas and history of the FF that they were the narrative characters that we were with when the universe died. And then Doom was front and center at the top of this transitional, Battleworld universe.
Now, that might be because this is really their swan song. But if the intent is to sweep their importance under the rug, then this would be the wrong time to give them that kind of push.
"if 5 years ago wolverine wasn't in a promo someone would have been fired from Marvel, I mean leaving him out is the biggest evidence of something going fishy"
Remember, though, that the image @WetRats posted that Bleeding Cool was making hay about was not an ad Marvel was placing somewhere. It was a poster they licensed for sale. So, if they can get a poster to sell with no Wolverine or FF on it, then why not? Especially when you can get someone to buy that poster, and instead of another image of Wolverine, Cyclops, or Storm, you can give a push to the characters you are trying to increase the visibility of. Seems good business to me. There is still plenty of things they are selling with Wolverine on it. There is already a lot of awareness of the X-Men. They don't really need to worry about promoting Wolverine anymore.
Why not license things for sale that give your lesser-known (and wholly controlled) properties more of a push? It seems there are no shortage of licensees ready to take that deal.
As far as actual Marvel promos go. It looks like the plan to push out the FF and X-Men hasn't reached whoever is running the Marvel website yet
And, of course, Dr. Doom, Magneto, and, well, I guess because of the movies, Mystique, all get face time in the Bring On the Bad Guys page.
"I don't think that the FF and X-Men will ever lose their place in Marvel, thats why this all seems so strange"
I agree with you-- despite whatever licensing shenanigans might be going on, I don't think Marvel will keep the X-Men or Doom and the FF out of their comics. I think, for those that follow the comics, there is just too big and important of a place in the universe for those characters to just waste them that way. And the X-Men still sell a lot of comics.
I think there is a difference between a comic with FF characters and an FF comic. If there is no FF book after Secret Wars, it is definitely a push away from that franchise. New stories involving those characters can't be used as the basis for films anymore because they are primarily appearing in a different franchise that Marvel controls. And there is nothing on the stands.
It's the same thing as saying X-men wasn't dead in the 70s because there was a reprint book and Angel and Iceman were on the Champions.
As for X-men, who knows? Marvel would never cancel a third of its line over night without having something as popular to take its place. Which is impossible in this market. I think they are in a different posistion there and cutting back on licensing is probably the only thing they can do. It's more of a balancing act.
It's the same thing as saying X-men wasn't dead in the 70s because there was a reprint book and Angel and Iceman were on the Champions.
Good point.
It seems any way that Marvel can diminish the FF & X-teams, they have. I expect there has been some serious push-back from the creative teams who have plans for these characters or ideas for new mutants. But once licenses began being withdrawn and edicts came down placing a hiatus on creating any new mutants, it became obvious that this wasn't a coincidence or a passing phase. Marvel seems to be altering the status quo. FF has been cancelled 3 months before their reboot film comes out and there hasn't been a new mutant in quite a while. In fact, there are at least 3 fewer mutants (Pietro, Wanda, and Logan) that immediately come to mind.
It's the same thing as saying X-men wasn't dead in the 70s because there was a reprint book and Angel and Iceman were on the Champions.
Good point.
It seems any way that Marvel can diminish the FF & X-teams, they have. I expect there has been some serious push-back from the creative teams who have plans for these characters or ideas for new mutants. But once licenses began being withdrawn and edicts came down placing a hiatus on creating any new mutants, it became obvious that this wasn't a coincidence or a passing phase. Marvel seems to be altering the status quo. FF has been cancelled 3 months before their reboot film comes out and there hasn't been a new mutant in quite a while. In fact, there are at least 3 fewer mutants (Pietro, Wanda, and Logan) that immediately come to mind.
And Avengers and New Avengers, not to mention solo characters starring in Avengers like Cap, Thor, and Iron Man, got their books cancelled the same month that the Avengers movie came out. Because, Marvel vs. Fox? No. Because, Secret Wars. You know, Secret Wars, that giant summer event book that does things like put Doctor Doom on the cover right before the FF movie with Doctor Doom comes out, like issue #4:
Look, I will agree there is something afoot in licensing, and for years Marvel has featured their own brands over the X-Men and FF in a lot of company imaging. But I think it is time to at least acknowledge that a lot of the sound and fury around the FF ending in April seemed a little silly when we found out that more than 30 other titles would end in May. No?
Also, regarding that supposed ban on creating new mutant characters-- supposedly they told Chris Claremont that, to not make new characters in his Nightcrawler book. But it seems no one told Bendis and Bachalo, as the current volume of Uncanny X-Men is basically a new mutant book, starring new mutant characters under Cyclops and Jean's tutelage. That book is only a little more than 2 years old. I also feel like we've seen some new mutant characters in Bunn and Walta's current Magneto series.
Of course @David_D, you're not the only one to feel like the idea that Marvel is being this aggressive sticking it to Fox sounds too extreme. It seems counter-intuitive that Marvel would stymie those properties as any sort of quid pro quo against FOX. And besides, the X-books are such a big part of Marvel’s extensive library. They may not like that Fox is making X-Men movies, but with a large readership invested in the X-books, one would think that Marvel would set aside their spite and make sure they’re producing quality and creatively unhindered stories. Evidently that may not be the case. It looks like the X-Men movies are going to have to make due with the characters they already have...which, frankly, is quite a few.
I expect no FF team for quite a while, they will spread the characters out and probably do a lot of X-Men / Inhumans crossovers to bump up the Inhumans property.
I agree with the "business side" of this story, but all the conspiracy theories about Marvel "blacklisting" the FF and X-Men are a little too much.
The Fantastic Four is Marvel's Royal Family, the "First" family. The basis for the entire Marvel Universe starts there. It is a property with over half a century of history, not to mention THE baby of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. To bury the FF is leaving money on the table. Not to mention a ton of good will.
...and the X-Men? The mutants are a major component of what kept Marvel from bankruptcy in the 90's. Aside from Spidey, they are what put Marvel way out in the lead over the distinguished competition. Those books (current and previous) account for too much of the company's line. There is no way they are going to abandon that.
I can understand Marvel wanting to shine the spotlight on some of the lesser known properties, especially given the massive success of Guardians of the Galaxy, C-list heroes that prove, given the proper marketing and attention, anything can sell. I feel this is what they are doing with the Inhumans right now. And as @David_D mentioned Wolverine certainly doesn't need any further exposure. But Cosmo does, and there is an opportunity to pull some of those marketing dollars away from Wolverine and push some Cosmo merchandise (I know I would buy a Cosmo plushie for my kids). Look at the profile of Iron Fist right now. 5 years ago, only die hard Marvel fans had any inkling that character existed. Now, thanks to cartoons, video games and merchandise, he is in the public conscious. The dude is getting a NetFlix series! Things like that only happen because Marvel makes a proactive decision to shift some of the marketing attention away from a certain property and onto another character.
But to say that Marvel is throwing the FF and X-Men under the bus, just to stick it to Fox... hogwash.
But to say that Marvel is throwing the FF and X-Men under the bus, just to stick it to Fox... hogwash.
If they were small and in the back of the crowd, I could agree with you, but they've been methodically eliminated.
Purged, one might say.
I thing "sticking it to Fox" is not so much the issue as "if it ain't all ours, we ain't promoting it... except Spidey... Spidey's a freaking gold mine!"
For me, this strange proceeding is the most interesting thing going on at the House of Ideas at the moment.
If we're counting Avengers faces vs. X-Men faces, are there any Avengers at all on the cover of this Avengers X-Men Axis issue?
Regardless of what licensing may be doing, if the marching orders at Marvel are to try to make us not see the X-Men or Fantastic Four anymore, then I would say the publishing division is doing a really bad job of that so far.
Even specific X-characters who are featured in next year's X-movie, like Jubilee and Apocalypse, are on covers this summer.
Regardless of what licensing may be doing, if the marching orders at Marvel are to try to make us not see the X-Men or Fantastic Four anymore, then I would say the publishing division is doing a really bad job of that so far.
Even specific X-characters who are featured in next year's X-movie, like Jubilee and Apocalypse, are on covers this summer.
Although Secret Wars has been rumored to bring about a major shift in the X-Men titles' status quo, so seeing these titles should come as no surprise.
Regardless of what licensing may be doing, if the marching orders at Marvel are to try to make us not see the X-Men or Fantastic Four anymore, then I would say the publishing division is doing a really bad job of that so far.
Even specific X-characters who are featured in next year's X-movie, like Jubilee and Apocalypse, are on covers this summer.
Are any of them on covers post-Secret Wars?
It seems like the perfect contrivance to shove them off the table.
Regardless of what licensing may be doing, if the marching orders at Marvel are to try to make us not see the X-Men or Fantastic Four anymore, then I would say the publishing division is doing a really bad job of that so far.
Even specific X-characters who are featured in next year's X-movie, like Jubilee and Apocalypse, are on covers this summer.
Although Secret Wars has been rumored to bring about a major shift in the X-Men titles' status quo, so seeing these titles should come as no surprise.
Seeing these titles is no surprise because X-Men (and Deadpool) sell comics. And that is what publishing is supposed to be doing. And that is what they are doing.
At the end of the day, if the premise is that making these characters less visible hurts awareness of them, and therefore box office (and I personally don't agree with that premise-- I actually think comics are too rarefied an item in the wild to matter much to mainstream awareness) then it seems an odd time for publishing to be putting out as much (or more?) product with X-Men and FF characters on the covers than ever. In fact, the FF are more featured this summer than they have been in years.
What I posted above is just a smattering, too. There are plenty more. I think Deadpool has at least two minis in Secret Wars. Maybe more. And of course Fox has a Deadpool movie coming, so shouldn't that be getting worked against?
At the end of the day, if the premise is that making these characters less visible hurts awareness of them, and therefore box office (and I personally don't agree with that premise-- I actually think comics are too rarefied an item in the wild to matter much to mainstream awareness) then it seems an odd time for publishing to be putting out as much (or more?) product with X-Men and FF characters on the covers than ever. Above is just a smattering, too. There are plenty more. I think Deadpool has at least two minis in Secret Wars. Maybe more. And of course Fox has a Deadpool movie coming, so shouldn't that be getting worked against?
If anything, I'd say at this point movies sell comics far more than the other way around.
It seems absurd to me for Marvel not take advantage of the free advertising the Fox movies are providing.
The whole thing seems far more like something being driven by corporate accountants and attorneys than by the personal whims of some executive.*
*Although some of the leaked Sony emails sure make one Marvel executive look pretty darned whimmy.
Seeing these titles is no surprise because X-Men (and Deadpool) sell comics. And that is what publishing is supposed to be doing. And that is what they are doing.... In fact, the FF are more featured this summer than they have been in years.
And yet the FF don't sell comics so I'm not sure we're operating from the same premise. Wouldn't it make sense that the creative staff inside Marvel would be keen on using the FF any way they could as it's likely they aren't the ones trying to limit their licensing potential? Just a thought.
And as far as being featured more this summer than they have in years, I suppose the same can be said of the Hulk's alter-ego Maestro, and Weirdworld - isn't that kind of the nature of this event?
Which Spider-Woman/Girl/Gwen/Person is that in the front?
Other than Lockjaw, she's the only character that far forward who isn't either featured or soon to be featured in a movie or TV series.
Which implies she probably is also a Soon To Be.
First, you really don't think Lockjaw will be in the Inhumans movie?
Second, I only see 2 spider people in the front row... Spider-Man and Spider-Man.
The second one is Miles Morales. They did make a strange coloring choice on his chest though so I can see the confusion. (Also, I'm thinking/hoping the animated Spider-man movie Sony is developing is a Miles Morales centered story)
I thing "sticking it to Fox" is not so much the issue as "if it ain't all ours, we ain't promoting it... except Spidey... Spidey's a freaking gold mine!"
For me, this strange proceeding is the most interesting thing going on at the House of Ideas at the moment.
Spidey is indeed a goldmine. Plus, Marvel has consistently had a better relationship with Sony, for whatever that's worth.
Which Spider-Woman/Girl/Gwen/Person is that in the front?
Other than Lockjaw, she's the only character that far forward who isn't either featured or soon to be featured in a movie or TV series.
Which implies she probably is also a Soon To Be.
First, you really don't think Lockjaw will be in the Inhumans movie?
Second, I only see 2 spider people in the front row... Spider-Man and Spider-Man.
The second one is Miles Morales. They did make a strange coloring choice on his chest though so I can see the confusion. (Also, I'm thinking/hoping the animated Spider-man movie Sony is developing is a Miles Morales centered story)
I certainly *hope* Lockjaw will be in the movie.
Thanks for the clarification on the Spider-Woman/Girl/Gwen/Person in question.
Seeing these titles is no surprise because X-Men (and Deadpool) sell comics. And that is what publishing is supposed to be doing. And that is what they are doing.... In fact, the FF are more featured this summer than they have been in years.
And yet the FF don't sell comics so I'm not sure we're operating from the same premise. Wouldn't it make sense that the creative staff inside Marvel would be keen on using the FF any way they could as it's likely they aren't the ones trying to limit their licensing potential? Just a thought.
And as far as being featured more this summer than they have in years, I suppose the same can be said of the Hulk's alter-ego Maestro, and Weirdworld - isn't that kind of the nature of this event?
...As more and more evidence came in, it became more and more likely. That, as a result of Disney’s highest single shareholder and Marvel CEO Isaac Perlmutter’s anger with Fox Studios over negotiations regarding the film-and-related rights to The Fantastic Four, that Marvel would cancel the Fantastic Four comic rather than provide any promotion, however small it might be, towards the Fox Studios film. Merchandise and licenses were scrapped and even Fantastic Four posters in the offices were pulled down lest Perlmutter see one and have his ire raised. It may not have been logical, but it was a decision born of personal emotion. It was steadied by sense. X-Men wasn’t cancelled, for example as the Xbooks sell so well. But Fantastic Four? It may have been the first book of the Marvel Universe, but its sales have continued to drag, even after multiple relaunches with high profile creators. There would be less of a hit to the bottom line if this comic was dropped.
I always found that premise hard to buy, because, I agree with you, the FF weren't selling a lot of comics anyway. And, actually, comics in general aren't selling a lot of comics. I think the idea that any comic being on or not being on the stands in the few remaining places comics can be found is actually not enough to sway awareness of a brand with a moviegoing audience one way or the other. So I am actually more able to believe stories about squeezing FF and X-Men on licensing agreements. Because I think those sorts of products-- they toys, bedsheets, toothbrushes, flamethrowers, etc., actually *do* have more of an effect on awareness than comics do.
So the story that Bleeding Cool was clickbaiting-- "the studio wars have come for the comics you like!" never smelled right to me back in October. I guessed there were other explanations for why the FF comic would end (again. As previous volumes had ended for different publishing reasons).
And then some months passed, and we found out that, well, the month after the FF ends, pretty much the entire rest of the Marvel Universe ends, too. Which, I think, should put to rest the idea that FF ending had anything to do with some CEO's "ire". I mean, unless Perlmutter hates the Avengers, too, and really wanted to cancel the Avengers comics in May, rather than provide any promotion, however small it might be, towards the Marvel Studios film. You know what I mean?
That doesn't mean that there isn't tension or shenanigans going on between Marvel and Fox. Just that, with the added context of the rest of those cancellations, that it is more likely FF ended because it was a core book whose characters were heading into SW, like the rest, not because it was being singled out for other reasons.
And the idea that cancelling a comic could have an awareness impact on a movie release seemed silly to me anyway.
Because, even if what you see on the stands did actually affect box office, and that was going to dictate what publishing had to do as part of some big, coordinated "Fox down Marvel up!" campaign, then they are really botching that job. Because right now for the summer event I am seeing a lot of FF characters on covers, a boatload of X- and Deadpool books, and barely any Ant Man. I mean, if comics are a platform that can boost or drop box office, then shouldn't Secret Wars be giving Pym or Lang a push?
Or, maybe, for whatever is going on with licensing, and whatever bad will there might be between studios, Bleeding Cool saw something they could try to bang into being a part of the narrative they were selling. And it was something they could get comics fans riled up about, so that is what they did.
Ironically. probably with the help of that controversy, the final arc of Fantastic Four had a bump in numbers, and sold better than it had in years.
They sold just under 40K copies of a $6 final issue.
Back before all this buzz, FF was below 25K.
Again... if publishing is supposed to be distancing readers and would-be movie goers from being aware of, or invested in, the FF, if that was their brief, then they screwed it up.
And, yes, this summer is the kind of summer when characters like Maestro get to be on a cover, too. But he's not on the cover of the main book. The one that will probably do big numbers. Reed and Ben are And Doom will be. (Not to mention, Doom is the character looming over all of Battleworld. He even just got a mention in the issue of Old Man Logan I just read.) Secret Wars is shaping up to be the biggest Doom story since...? I'm not sure. But a long time, I would guess.
At the end of the day, if the premise is that making these characters less visible hurts awareness of them, and therefore box office (and I personally don't agree with that premise-- I actually think comics are too rarefied an item in the wild to matter much to mainstream awareness) then it seems an odd time for publishing to be putting out as much (or more?) product with X-Men and FF characters on the covers than ever. Above is just a smattering, too. There are plenty more. I think Deadpool has at least two minis in Secret Wars. Maybe more. And of course Fox has a Deadpool movie coming, so shouldn't that be getting worked against?
If anything, I'd say at this point movies sell comics far more than the other way around.
It seems absurd to me for Marvel not take advantage of the free advertising the Fox movies are providing.
The whole thing seems far more like something being driven by corporate accountants and attorneys than by the personal whims of some executive.*
*Although some of the leaked Sony emails sure make one Marvel executive look pretty darned whimmy.
I agree. As important as the comics are to us, I don't think they move the needle when it comes to creating a moviegoing audience. But I think there have been plenty of examples of movies selling comics.
The Bendis/McNiven Guardians didn't get launched to generate awareness or help the movie. Rather, they wanted to have a book in place (and several hardcover collections available) so that the new fans of the movie-- now aware of Guardians and enthusiastic-- to have the option of buying some comics. And when it comes to the collected editions, I remember those Guardians volumes getting a bump from the movie.
I remember that DC positioned that Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN, which happened to come out just a few months after The Dark Knight hit (and featuring a very Ledger-Joker-looking cover) ended up doing big numbers.
I imagine they hope the current volume of Ant Man could get the same kind of bump. But I don't think they launched a Scott Lang Ant Man book because they think they would be hurting the movie if they didn't do so. Rather, I think they wanted to have one going so they don't miss out on a chance for a successful movie to help sell some comics.
Because I think those sorts of products-- they toys, bedsheets, toothbrushes, flamethrowers, etc., actually *do* have more of an effect on awareness than comics do.
Seriously, this is the first Fantastic Four trailer that lays to rest many of the doubts that have been simmering for a while. And it's a MovieTickets.com ad that just lays out the characters and their powers. Seems simple enough.
Comments
There's ample evidence that this is all based solely on the licensing arrangements made with FOX for the FF and X-Men. Otherwise, the arrangements with Sony (Spider-Man) or Universal (The Hulk) would be resulting in similar actions, but they clearly aren't. FOX and Marvel are not playing nice, and it seems FOX has figured out a way to successfully exploit the Marvel properties with little involvement from Marvel so they don't look like they're going to relinquish their control on those licenses anytime soon.
Apparently Marvel seems committed to cutting their losses. They don't want to give FOX another dime of revenue either. They very likely made many good offers to FOX and those offers were presumably rejected, and Marvel/Disney don't bluff. That's all hypothesis based on many insider rumors and anecdotal evidence. In the end, these are their properties to diminish, exploit, or sell. It is a business after all. As young boys and girls reading our first Uncanny X-Men, there was no way this would have ever occurred to us. There was no way we could ever see this coming.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/31/marvel-2015-line-up-poster-loses-x-men-and-fantastic-four/
Please feel free to join in with your take.
Clearly, when it comes to making art choices for licensed products (the one that @WetRats posted is a licensed product, sold by someplace called Trends International, which seems to be a poster company.) Or when Marvel is printing and giving away their own promo material, like that 75th Anniversary magazine, they are making it the Spider-Man + The MCU lineup, and leaving out X-Men and Fantastic Four. And there have been plenty of stories about them not licensing movie toys from the Fox movies (though, despite that one statue cancellation, I don't know that we've seen non-movie X-toys disappear from the stores. They are just the comic designs not the movie designs. I don't pay much attention to toys, but I would be surprised if you were to go into a Target or Toys R' Us today and not be able to come out with a Wolverine.)
Whether these licensing battles are going to affect the comics though remains to be seen. Personally, I couldn't care less what is or isn't licensed. I know that is where the real money is, but I don't buy superhero posters or toys. I just care about the comics. So those are all that matter to me.
In the comics, at the moment, the FF characters have had big roles to play in Secret Wars so far (and the Avengers and New Avengers issues leading up to Secret War). Secret Wars is, perhaps more than anything, a Doom book. There are as many or more X-universe related miniseries for Secret War as Avengers ones. It feels like Hickman, Ribic, and the many other creators are getting good use out of these characters whether they are for sale on that lineup poster or not.
Could that all change on the other side of Secret Wars? Sure. But I would be very surprised. I also think the last thing you would want to do before taking all the X and FF toys away from the comics creators in the name of inter-studio pissing contests would be to have a huge summer event that reminds everyone how cool Doom, Reed, and the X-Men can be. To then get rid of them? Well. Anything is possible. But I will believe that when I see it.
And given that there are X-ladies in A-Force, and Human Torch in Uncanny Inhumans, and I think those are supposed to either take place in, or continue in, the post-Secret Wars continuity(?), then that seems like another sign of those characters staying in the comics.
As much as I love some some of those characters (The ever-lovin' blue eyed Thing is one of my all time favourites), it sure is nice to see some of my beloved C-listers get a little push. Cosmo is fairly prominent on the 2015 Marvel promo image!
- reading Secret Wars #1 it has a lot to do with the FF and in a weird way it seems like they are dying
- also if 5 years ago wolverine wasn't in a promo someone would have been fired from Marvel, I mean leaving him out is the biggest evidence of something going fishy
- and it just doesnt seem like good business, even if you don't own that movie chracter you still want them to do good right?
- I don't think that the FF and X-Men will ever lose their place in Marvel, thats why this all seems so strange
Sure. But, then again, the whole universe was dying. I think it says something about the gravitas and history of the FF that they were the narrative characters that we were with when the universe died. And then Doom was front and center at the top of this transitional, Battleworld universe.
Now, that might be because this is really their swan song. But if the intent is to sweep their importance under the rug, then this would be the wrong time to give them that kind of push.
Remember, though, that the image @WetRats posted that Bleeding Cool was making hay about was not an ad Marvel was placing somewhere. It was a poster they licensed for sale. So, if they can get a poster to sell with no Wolverine or FF on it, then why not? Especially when you can get someone to buy that poster, and instead of another image of Wolverine, Cyclops, or Storm, you can give a push to the characters you are trying to increase the visibility of. Seems good business to me. There is still plenty of things they are selling with Wolverine on it. There is already a lot of awareness of the X-Men. They don't really need to worry about promoting Wolverine anymore.
Why not license things for sale that give your lesser-known (and wholly controlled) properties more of a push? It seems there are no shortage of licensees ready to take that deal.
As far as actual Marvel promos go. It looks like the plan to push out the FF and X-Men hasn't reached whoever is running the Marvel website yet
On Marvel's own website, here is who they currently call their "Top Heroes".
A few X-Men characters (not to mention Sue) are featured in the Women of Marvel page.
And, of course, Dr. Doom, Magneto, and, well, I guess because of the movies, Mystique, all get face time in the Bring On the Bad Guys page.
I agree with you-- despite whatever licensing shenanigans might be going on, I don't think Marvel will keep the X-Men or Doom and the FF out of their comics. I think, for those that follow the comics, there is just too big and important of a place in the universe for those characters to just waste them that way. And the X-Men still sell a lot of comics.
It's the same thing as saying X-men wasn't dead in the 70s because there was a reprint book and Angel and Iceman were on the Champions.
As for X-men, who knows? Marvel would never cancel a third of its line over night without having something as popular to take its place. Which is impossible in this market. I think they are in a different posistion there and cutting back on licensing is probably the only thing they can do. It's more of a balancing act.
It seems any way that Marvel can diminish the FF & X-teams, they have. I expect there has been some serious push-back from the creative teams who have plans for these characters or ideas for new mutants. But once licenses began being withdrawn and edicts came down placing a hiatus on creating any new mutants, it became obvious that this wasn't a coincidence or a passing phase. Marvel seems to be altering the status quo. FF has been cancelled 3 months before their reboot film comes out and there hasn't been a new mutant in quite a while. In fact, there are at least 3 fewer mutants (Pietro, Wanda, and Logan) that immediately come to mind.
Look, I will agree there is something afoot in licensing, and for years Marvel has featured their own brands over the X-Men and FF in a lot of company imaging. But I think it is time to at least acknowledge that a lot of the sound and fury around the FF ending in April seemed a little silly when we found out that more than 30 other titles would end in May. No?
Also, regarding that supposed ban on creating new mutant characters-- supposedly they told Chris Claremont that, to not make new characters in his Nightcrawler book. But it seems no one told Bendis and Bachalo, as the current volume of Uncanny X-Men is basically a new mutant book, starring new mutant characters under Cyclops and Jean's tutelage. That book is only a little more than 2 years old. I also feel like we've seen some new mutant characters in Bunn and Walta's current Magneto series.
I expect no FF team for quite a while, they will spread the characters out and probably do a lot of X-Men / Inhumans crossovers to bump up the Inhumans property.
Still, trying to wrap one's head around the idea that Marvel is, for all intents and purposes, cutting off their nose to spite their face - makes me sick too.
The Fantastic Four is Marvel's Royal Family, the "First" family. The basis for the entire Marvel Universe starts there. It is a property with over half a century of history, not to mention THE baby of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. To bury the FF is leaving money on the table. Not to mention a ton of good will.
...and the X-Men? The mutants are a major component of what kept Marvel from bankruptcy in the 90's. Aside from Spidey, they are what put Marvel way out in the lead over the distinguished competition. Those books (current and previous) account for too much of the company's line. There is no way they are going to abandon that.
I can understand Marvel wanting to shine the spotlight on some of the lesser known properties, especially given the massive success of Guardians of the Galaxy, C-list heroes that prove, given the proper marketing and attention, anything can sell. I feel this is what they are doing with the Inhumans right now. And as @David_D mentioned Wolverine certainly doesn't need any further exposure. But Cosmo does, and there is an opportunity to pull some of those marketing dollars away from Wolverine and push some Cosmo merchandise (I know I would buy a Cosmo plushie for my kids).
Look at the profile of Iron Fist right now. 5 years ago, only die hard Marvel fans had any inkling that character existed. Now, thanks to cartoons, video games and merchandise, he is in the public conscious. The dude is getting a NetFlix series! Things like that only happen because Marvel makes a proactive decision to shift some of the marketing attention away from a certain property and onto another character.
But to say that Marvel is throwing the FF and X-Men under the bus, just to stick it to Fox... hogwash.
Purged, one might say.
I thing "sticking it to Fox" is not so much the issue as "if it ain't all ours, we ain't promoting it... except Spidey... Spidey's a freaking gold mine!"
For me, this strange proceeding is the most interesting thing going on at the House of Ideas at the moment.
If we're counting Avengers faces vs. X-Men faces, are there any Avengers at all on the cover of this Avengers X-Men Axis issue?
Regardless of what licensing may be doing, if the marching orders at Marvel are to try to make us not see the X-Men or Fantastic Four anymore, then I would say the publishing division is doing a really bad job of that so far.
Even specific X-characters who are featured in next year's X-movie, like Jubilee and Apocalypse, are on covers this summer.
It seems like the perfect contrivance to shove them off the table.
At the end of the day, if the premise is that making these characters less visible hurts awareness of them, and therefore box office (and I personally don't agree with that premise-- I actually think comics are too rarefied an item in the wild to matter much to mainstream awareness) then it seems an odd time for publishing to be putting out as much (or more?) product with X-Men and FF characters on the covers than ever. In fact, the FF are more featured this summer than they have been in years.
What I posted above is just a smattering, too. There are plenty more. I think Deadpool has at least two minis in Secret Wars. Maybe more. And of course Fox has a Deadpool movie coming, so shouldn't that be getting worked against?
It seems absurd to me for Marvel not take advantage of the free advertising the Fox movies are providing.
The whole thing seems far more like something being driven by corporate accountants and attorneys than by the personal whims of some executive.*
*Although some of the leaked Sony emails sure make one Marvel executive look pretty darned whimmy.
Which Spider-Woman/Girl/Gwen/Person is that in the front?
Other than Lockjaw, she's the only character that far forward who isn't either featured or soon to be featured in a movie or TV series.
Which implies she probably is also a Soon To Be.
Wow.
Hank McCoy's X-Pants are just goofy.
And as far as being featured more this summer than they have in years, I suppose the same can be said of the Hulk's alter-ego Maestro, and Weirdworld - isn't that kind of the nature of this event?
Second, I only see 2 spider people in the front row... Spider-Man and Spider-Man.
The second one is Miles Morales. They did make a strange coloring choice on his chest though so I can see the confusion. (Also, I'm thinking/hoping the animated Spider-man movie Sony is developing is a Miles Morales centered story)
Thanks for the clarification on the Spider-
Woman/Girl/Gwen/Person in question.So the story that Bleeding Cool was clickbaiting-- "the studio wars have come for the comics you like!" never smelled right to me back in October. I guessed there were other explanations for why the FF comic would end (again. As previous volumes had ended for different publishing reasons).
And then some months passed, and we found out that, well, the month after the FF ends, pretty much the entire rest of the Marvel Universe ends, too. Which, I think, should put to rest the idea that FF ending had anything to do with some CEO's "ire". I mean, unless Perlmutter hates the Avengers, too, and really wanted to cancel the Avengers comics in May, rather than provide any promotion, however small it might be, towards the Marvel Studios film. You know what I mean?
That doesn't mean that there isn't tension or shenanigans going on between Marvel and Fox. Just that, with the added context of the rest of those cancellations, that it is more likely FF ended because it was a core book whose characters were heading into SW, like the rest, not because it was being singled out for other reasons.
And the idea that cancelling a comic could have an awareness impact on a movie release seemed silly to me anyway.
Because, even if what you see on the stands did actually affect box office, and that was going to dictate what publishing had to do as part of some big, coordinated "Fox down Marvel up!" campaign, then they are really botching that job. Because right now for the summer event I am seeing a lot of FF characters on covers, a boatload of X- and Deadpool books, and barely any Ant Man. I mean, if comics are a platform that can boost or drop box office, then shouldn't Secret Wars be giving Pym or Lang a push?
Or, maybe, for whatever is going on with licensing, and whatever bad will there might be between studios, Bleeding Cool saw something they could try to bang into being a part of the narrative they were selling. And it was something they could get comics fans riled up about, so that is what they did.
Ironically. probably with the help of that controversy, the final arc of Fantastic Four had a bump in numbers, and sold better than it had in years.
They sold just under 40K copies of a $6 final issue.
Back before all this buzz, FF was below 25K.
Again... if publishing is supposed to be distancing readers and would-be movie goers from being aware of, or invested in, the FF, if that was their brief, then they screwed it up.
And, yes, this summer is the kind of summer when characters like Maestro get to be on a cover, too. But he's not on the cover of the main book. The one that will probably do big numbers. Reed and Ben are And Doom will be. (Not to mention, Doom is the character looming over all of Battleworld. He even just got a mention in the issue of Old Man Logan I just read.) Secret Wars is shaping up to be the biggest Doom story since...? I'm not sure. But a long time, I would guess.
The Bendis/McNiven Guardians didn't get launched to generate awareness or help the movie. Rather, they wanted to have a book in place (and several hardcover collections available) so that the new fans of the movie-- now aware of Guardians and enthusiastic-- to have the option of buying some comics. And when it comes to the collected editions, I remember those Guardians volumes getting a bump from the movie.
I remember that DC positioned that Azzarello/Bermejo Joker OGN, which happened to come out just a few months after The Dark Knight hit (and featuring a very Ledger-Joker-looking cover) ended up doing big numbers.
I imagine they hope the current volume of Ant Man could get the same kind of bump. But I don't think they launched a Scott Lang Ant Man book because they think they would be hurting the movie if they didn't do so. Rather, I think they wanted to have one going so they don't miss out on a chance for a successful movie to help sell some comics.
Now I totally want a Fantastic Four Flamethrower.
Seriously, this is the first Fantastic Four trailer that lays to rest many of the doubts that have been simmering for a while. And it's a MovieTickets.com ad that just lays out the characters and their powers. Seems simple enough.