For all the people who see the movie and run to the comic stores to buy FF comics and are confused by Johnny I am sure that someone will explain the situation to all three people.
Hmm. I thought it was a valid point. What will the explanation be?
For all the people who see the movie and run to the comic stores to buy FF comics and are confused by Johnny I am sure that someone will explain the situation to all three people.
For all the people who see the movie and run to the comic stores to buy FF comics and are confused by Johnny I am sure that someone will explain the situation to all three people.
I volunteer.
Okay. What will your explanation be to the kid that comes in looking for a black Johnny Storm in the latest FF comic @WetRats?
For all the people who see the movie and run to the comic stores to buy FF comics and are confused by Johnny I am sure that someone will explain the situation to all three people.
I volunteer.
Okay. What will your explanation be to the kid that comes in looking for a black Johnny Storm in the latest FF comic @WetRats?
It's 2015. We've come a long way since 1963. Are you bothered by the difference, or just confused, kid?
And besides, look what they did with Nick Fury. Johnny might BE black in the comics by then!
if they are making Sue and Johnny adopted siblings or step brother and sister, what's the point exactly? If anything, why not make Sue black too? And at the risk of being labelled a "racist troll", I wonder why FOX opted not to have a mixed-race couple headlining their major superhero family film? Why else would they cast Johnny and Sue as different races?
Nope. You still couldn't answer it Peter. Until you can answer it, it looks foolish for you to keep bringing it up. You are taking one part of the full point and trying to make it something it isn't. I suspected that you couldn't resist going for the "racist" card again - a risk I knew I was taking when I brought it up. The question you've completely missed is why is Sue Storm white?
For all the supposed controversy, Michael B. Jordan is the only cast member that works for me. I find Kate Mara even blander than Jessica Alba. Miles Teller - I don't know if I've seen him in anything aside from trailers or clips, but he doesn't strike me as terribly charismatic. Jamie Bell - Billy Elliott was great, haven't seen him do anything that good since, but haven't seen him do much bad, either. As The Thing, though? I don't even know what to make of that.
I'm basing things on my preconception of the FF, on what I've been reading since I was a 12 years old, and that's obviously not the direction they're going, so I guess I'll have to wait and see what they do. Would have been nice to get a good movie about the FF I grew up with, but I suppose the previous two mediocre films will have to do.
For all the people who see the movie and run to the comic stores to buy FF comics and are confused by Johnny I am sure that someone will explain the situation to all three people.
Hmm. I thought it was a valid point. What will the explanation be?
Actually that comment was about how like how they are bringing back Peter Park in time for AMS2 because they think there will be a large uptick in comic sales when the comic comes out so you can't have a newbie see Dr Ock be Spider-man. Just an old comic bit. :)
As far as the explanation I'll tell them there's a comic universe and a movie universe. The movie company can change anything they want. Like make Iron Man movies without Iron Man in them. Dancing Spide-men. 6' 3" Wolverines. Now take these FF essentials and work your way up and ignore the movies. Let them stand on their own merit. Even movies based on real life say "Inspired by..." You got 50 plus years of great comics to enjoy.
Start with a 10-minute TV news feature on the 50th anniversary of the mysterious disappearance of the FF, including old footage of their Space-Age origin, fights with the Mole Man, and a grainy, partially glimpsed Galactus, mention their unfortunate clashes with Dr. Doom. End with shot of Baxter Building.
Cut to the middle of a fight in the Negative Zone involving a still-young FF, reveal Sue as pregnant. Bulk of story deals with war with Annihilus, and Sue's delivery of Franklin.
Movie ends with FF emerging in 21st Century Earth, shock twist discovery that Doom now rules most of the world, including the USA.
EDIT: "Today's" Earth should be very much an early 60's view of the 21st Century. Flying cars, jet packs, food pills, moving sidewalks, etc. Doom rules not by conquest, but economically, as he has co-opted Richards inventions, and built an apparent Utopia. Sequels would involve peeling away the shiny surface to expose the ugliness underneath, and eventually involve crazy travels in time and space, alliances with the Mole Man, and a particularly ill-timed return of Galactus.
Calls race-bending a trend. Picks a mixed race actress that isn't too dark. Thinks mixed race siblings can only be adopted or step siblings.
Nah. No racism going on there.
Concerning the ages, it's the Ultimate line FF. Frankly, it's exactly how the Ultimate line should've looked from the get go. All New Ultimates and FF are catching up to what they should've done years ago. And now the movies will reflect that.
Good. If younger kids can see the President and Olympians and best selling musicians and top actors and say 'that can be me', it should be no different for their fictional heroes including Spider-Man, Flash and the Fantastic Four.
Unless it's being done for purely publicity / shock value reasons, then it's a house built on sand, and it won't stand for long. The world is savvy to such things and can see right through it.
Johnny does seem and odd choice... make Perry White black... nothing to explain here. He's not white, get over it. HOWEVER:
Make Johnny Storm black, there's some explaining to do. Your average movie goer: "His sister is white. How did that happen? Are they adopted? Who are the parents? I can't think about the plot until this is answered. "
They could have made Reed black, and there would be nothing to explain. Maybe Willie Lumpkin will be a female hispanic pre-operative transsexual.
'But if they are making Sue and Johnny adopted siblings or step brother and sister, what's the point exactly?'
I guess I read that in someone else's post. Oops.
Nope. Still right.
As someone who actually has a blood sibling of a different race I can say, yes it's possible. But it requires pointless (and tiresome) exposition. No matter what, now they are going to have to delve into the minutiae of the Storm family history. I don't care about step parents or adoption stories, and I have never seen a movie reflect my family's make up... EVER, so why would we expect to see different now.. And, frankly, there are too few lead roles for black women in mainstream movies. And I applaud your effort at being a defender of equality @peter, I get where @bralinator is coming from. Every creative decision so far has gone against the core of what makes FF great. And if they are taking from Ultimate FF then I feel sorry, because of all the Ultimated franchises that was the one that went furthest away from its original concept, in a bad way.
I think you, peter, are crossing the line at insinuating that someone is racist and you're reaching to come to that conclusion. I followed the Flash discussion and this one. Saying you want a character you love to be represented in a way they always have been, the way you always think of them is not racist. I'm not an ageist because I prefer middle aged Reed Richards. And there is a trend of race bending going on right now. Personally I think it's natural course correction after 75 years of very white comics. But you can't fault people for being disappointed that they are being told that a character they loved is gone forever and being replaced. It's not even a judgment on this new character.
As someone who has experienced real racism, both casually and explicitly, I find your willingness to throw the word around offensive.
And if they are taking from Ultimate FF then I feel sorry, because of all the Ultimated franchises that was the one that went furthest away from its original concept, in a bad way.
I think I've figured it out ... it's all a marketing ploy by the comics division of Marvel. Everyone goes to the movie, sees a white Sue Storm and her brother, a black Johnny Storm, goes "hmmm, what's that all about" and then runs out to the nearest comic shop to read up on the untold backstory! Plot twist: There isn't one, suckers! #genius
Right - so because Johnny Storm is now black, he HAS to have a black sister as well?
Mhm... keep digging them holes. Right back to the 1950s, please.
And playdoh - I'm not going to excuse the bullshit I see in this thread or others like it for the sake of being polite. I've been polite with my own experiences in the past. I'm older now - I don't need to make friends, I don't need to validate a person's wrongheaded opinion about race on a comic book forum. I'm going to call it out everytime. For those that do take offense? Good. It's 2014. Act like it.
You are only validating everyone's opinion about you @Peter. You've never been polite and everyone on these forums knows it. I'm not offended, you are. And when you aren't offended, you're offensive. You certainly do a lot of calling out, but you can't seem to offer a single reasonable answer to anyone's complaint in this thread other than "it's 2014 so get over it".
What is your response to: Why is Sue Storm white? Why couldn't Reed and Sue become a mixed race couple? It would have made more sense and required less exposition than changing only one siblings ethnicity.
"You are only validating everyone's opinion about you @Peter."
That I'm awesome. Thanks. I think so too.
"You've never been polite and everyone on these forums knows it."
Really? Never? And everyone? Did you do a forum poll and I missed it? I was told there wouldn't be any math.
"And when you aren't offended, you're offensive."
I said I was offended? News to me.
"You certainly do a lot of calling out, but you can't seem to offer a single reasonable answer to anyone's complaint in this thread other than "it's 2014 so get over it". "
Good - glad you're labeling them as complaints. Proves my point: people are up in arms because It's Not Muh Fantastic Four! Oh - also, I don't work for Fox. I don't need to come up with the answers.
"What is your response to: Why is Sue Storm white?"
Because she is.
"Why couldn't Reed and Sue become a mixed race couple?"
I don't care about What Ifs? The movie casting is done.
"It would have made more sense and required less exposition than changing only one siblings ethnicity."
Right. Because in your world a white sister and a black brother doesn't make "sense" (your words).
Why couldn't Reed and Sue become a mixed race couple? It would have made more sense and required less exposition than changing only one siblings ethnicity.
I'm so sorry for you @Peter. You appear to have been terribly hurt in the past or present by racism and it manifests itself as self-righteous negativity. And I apologize to you for having picked at that scab when I failed to applaud FOX for doing such a poor job of casting their FF reboot while providing a few ideas of my own which I felt were more worthy choices - that are obviously shared by others here.
Yes, since I think a black Sue Storm works better with a black Johnny Storm as her brother, I must be a racist. I also want to apologize that the skin tone my selection of an established black actresses to replace the abysmal Kate Mara was too pale for your racist/bs meter. (That wasn't a racist comment at all for you to make).
My apologies for not demonstrating those same 2014 sensibilities you've so eloquently demonstrated to us when I said that the best casting choice they had in fact made was Johnny Storm.
Right - so because Johnny Storm is now black, he HAS to have a black sister as well?
Mhm... keep digging them holes. Right back to the 1950s, please.
And playdoh - I'm not going to excuse the bullshit I see in this thread or others like it for the sake of being polite. I've been polite with my own experiences in the past. I'm older now - I don't need to make friends, I don't need to validate a person's wrongheaded opinion about race on a comic book forum. I'm going to call it out everytime. For those that do take offense? Good. It's 2014. Act like it.
I didn't say you should be polite. I said that calling people racist after putting words in people's mouths is offensive and disrespectful and I'll add that you should get off your high horse because you're not calling out bullshit, you are just being judgmental. It seems more like you're the one seeking validation.
A character is more than a name. They are a series of characteristics. When creators decide make major changes to characters we consume I think we are allowed to question and gripe. It IS 2014, and many of us have learned how to express different opinions without attacking each other.
Slow Down! As the father of three half breed, mixed raced kids and one pure blooded, one race kid I have to add that the casting of a white gal and black guy as siblings could be done ( I attest that it is physically possible!). I'd like to think we could live in a world that is color blind but it will never be. The skin color of these actors should not take away from what seems to be bad casting across the board.
And adding an unsolicited comment as someone who has been part of some heated debates on this forum, Racist is a heavy term to drop. But don't listen to me I am just a practicioner of miscegenation and I bow to a Roman dictator so I do not belong in a world with a black Johnny Storm and white Sue Storm.
LOL. Shroud - thank you for giving me a name to my cause. I guess I too practice miscegenation. I can't wait until we're all a lovely shade of Toffee. Like some strange Star Trek world where there is no variation. lol. Who will we shit on then? :P
"I'm so sorry for you @Peter. You appear to have been terribly hurt in the past or present by racism and it manifests itself as self-righteous negativity."
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! You're a moron. :)) And Dash isn't just African American. Not that I expect it to matter - brown skin is brown skin to some people.
"It seems more like you're the one seeking validation."
Comments
I guess I read that in someone else's post. Oops.
Nope. Still right.
And besides, look what they did with Nick Fury. Johnny might BE black in the comics by then!
You are consistent, yes, but still wrong.
I'm basing things on my preconception of the FF, on what I've been reading since I was a 12 years old, and that's obviously not the direction they're going, so I guess I'll have to wait and see what they do. Would have been nice to get a good movie about the FF I grew up with, but I suppose the previous two mediocre films will have to do.
As far as the explanation I'll tell them there's a comic universe and a movie universe. The movie company can change anything they want. Like make Iron Man movies without Iron Man in them. Dancing Spide-men. 6' 3" Wolverines. Now take these FF essentials and work your way up and ignore the movies. Let them stand on their own merit. Even movies based on real life say "Inspired by..." You got 50 plus years of great comics to enjoy.
Johnny does seem and odd choice... make Perry White black... nothing to explain here. He's not white, get over it. HOWEVER:
Make Johnny Storm black, there's some explaining to do. Your average movie goer: "His sister is white. How did that happen? Are they adopted? Who are the parents? I can't think about the plot until this is answered. "
They could have made Reed black, and there would be nothing to explain. Maybe Willie Lumpkin will be a female hispanic pre-operative transsexual.
I think you, peter, are crossing the line at insinuating that someone is racist and you're reaching to come to that conclusion. I followed the Flash discussion and this one. Saying you want a character you love to be represented in a way they always have been, the way you always think of them is not racist. I'm not an ageist because I prefer middle aged Reed Richards. And there is a trend of race bending going on right now. Personally I think it's natural course correction after 75 years of very white comics. But you can't fault people for being disappointed that they are being told that a character they loved is gone forever and being replaced. It's not even a judgment on this new character.
As someone who has experienced real racism, both casually and explicitly, I find your willingness to throw the word around offensive.
Plus... Pornface.
Mhm... keep digging them holes. Right back to the 1950s, please.
And playdoh - I'm not going to excuse the bullshit I see in this thread or others like it for the sake of being polite. I've been polite with my own experiences in the past. I'm older now - I don't need to make friends, I don't need to validate a person's wrongheaded opinion about race on a comic book forum. I'm going to call it out everytime. For those that do take offense? Good. It's 2014. Act like it.
What is your response to: Why is Sue Storm white? Why couldn't Reed and Sue become a mixed race couple? It would have made more sense and required less exposition than changing only one siblings ethnicity.
Let me guess. Racism or something?
That I'm awesome. Thanks. I think so too.
"You've never been polite and everyone on these forums knows it."
Really? Never? And everyone? Did you do a forum poll and I missed it? I was told there wouldn't be any math.
"And when you aren't offended, you're offensive."
I said I was offended? News to me.
"You certainly do a lot of calling out, but you can't seem to offer a single reasonable answer to anyone's complaint in this thread other than "it's 2014 so get over it". "
Good - glad you're labeling them as complaints. Proves my point: people are up in arms because It's Not Muh Fantastic Four! Oh - also, I don't work for Fox. I don't need to come up with the answers.
"What is your response to: Why is Sue Storm white?"
Because she is.
"Why couldn't Reed and Sue become a mixed race couple?"
I don't care about What Ifs? The movie casting is done.
"It would have made more sense and required less exposition than changing only one siblings ethnicity."
Right. Because in your world a white sister and a black brother doesn't make "sense" (your words).
"Let me guess. Racism or something?"
If you weren't offended, it sure didn't show...
Please come back here and tell us all what year it is when/if Netflix and Marvel make Luke Cage a white guy.
K'thanks.
Pick a year.
Yes, since I think a black Sue Storm works better with a black Johnny Storm as her brother, I must be a racist. I also want to apologize that the skin tone my selection of an established black actresses to replace the abysmal Kate Mara was too pale for your racist/bs meter. (That wasn't a racist comment at all for you to make).
My apologies for not demonstrating those same 2014 sensibilities you've so eloquently demonstrated to us when I said that the best casting choice they had in fact made was Johnny Storm.
Who's the racist again?
A character is more than a name. They are a series of characteristics. When creators decide make major changes to characters we consume I think we are allowed to question and gripe. It IS 2014, and many of us have learned how to express different opinions without attacking each other.
And adding an unsolicited comment as someone who has been part of some heated debates on this forum, Racist is a heavy term to drop. But don't listen to me I am just a practicioner of miscegenation and I bow to a Roman dictator so I do not belong in a world with a black Johnny Storm and white Sue Storm.
"Let me take a selfie."
M
"I'm so sorry for you @Peter. You appear to have been terribly hurt in the past or present by racism and it manifests itself as self-righteous negativity."
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! You're a moron. :)) And Dash isn't just African American. Not that I expect it to matter - brown skin is brown skin to some people.
"It seems more like you're the one seeking validation."
You don't know me very well.