I think the hallmark of geek culture should be that you like what you like A LOT! I am just as fanboy for Deadwood as I am for Travis McGee novels as I am for the Marvel Universe as I am for Final Fantasy games. You don't like them? That's cool, tell me what you like so that I can try it out.
If there were a Geek constitution - this would be the preamble. :)
Both playdoh and shroud are correct - Firefly failed because mainstream America didn't watch it, and mainstream America didn't watch it because Fox wouldn't commit to a regular timeslot for it. We're Americans - we like consistency. :) But geek culture =/= mainstream American culture. It's a wonder ANYthing we like gets beyond a season, if you think about it.
We'd be so much better off if we didn't treat our fandoms like they were political parties. Instead of "Oh, you like Robotech? That's just a ripoff of Macross." why not "Oh, you liked Robotech? Ever check out the Gundam series?" Instead of "Oh, you think Dr. Who started with Eccleston? Piss off." why not "Check out some of the earlier actors. Yeah, the sets are cheezy but you'll love the stories." Instead of "Oh, you like My Little Pony? When are you coming out?" why not "I've heard it's funny but it's not for me. Then again, I watched a show where a greasy muscled guy in a loincloth fought a guy with a skull face. I may be the one in the closet!"
To go back to the immortal words of brother Henry Rollins, the problem does not lie with those who have the enjoyment of something, but with those who feel the need to judge them for their enjoyment of it. Or, to quote him: "Music doesn't suck right now...YOU suck right now. Comics don't suck right now...YOU suck right now." :)
And to defend Firefly specifically it never got a full chance. It was mismanaged from the get go by Fox. What show hits it stride in the first 10 episodes? I'd rather watch a hypothetical Season 10 of Firefly than generic and vanilla NCIS repeats on USA network.
I still laugh at your metric comment as if you used a clever turn of phrase to justify what I believe to be a poor example.
Not sure what you mean there at the end except that you seem to think that the love the show recieves from its fans should justify it having continued to exist beyond what was aired and its inability to draw viewers should not have been relevant to its cancellation, because the small group of people who liked it really liked it.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees announced - Nirvana, KISS, Linda Ronstadt, Peter Gabriel, Hall & Oates and Cat Stevens. All in all, a pretty good class I suppose. Personally, I'd gladly trade Stevens out in favor of Warren Zevon, who IMO had a much more profound musical and, more specifically, lyrical impact.
Wow. Didn't quite mean to set off an intensely heated debate there. I like Firefly but I came to it late it had been cancelled several years before I saw any of it. I actually saw the movie first and then picked up the series a couple years after that.
@solitarerose I don't have anything against CSI I just found the 14 episodes/14 seasons made for a nice pithy little comparison. I wasn't shooting for a battle cry or war whoop or anything. Although I could get behind a "Damn Wheel of Time!" War whoop. I'd be okay with that.
@playdoughsrepublic no, you do not need to be a card carrying brown coat, wear a Tom Baker scarf or Vulcan ears. We like you just fine doing your own thing. Or I do anyway.
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
No, I always thought he was hungry. I see your point though. Maybe he was out for a specific road runner delicacy. One always wants what one cannot have. And then it just becomes a vendetta.
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
No, he just had a really big credit line. That’s why ACME went under after Wile E. gave up and moved into the city.
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
Maybe someone else had a contract out on the Road Runner and the Coyote was the hitman. It would explain the weapons. The Coyote was just a sicko. I am thinking if they reboot this, the remake will be somewhere inbetween Silence of the Lambs and No Country For Old Men.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees announced - Nirvana, KISS, Linda Ronstadt, Peter Gabriel, Hall & Oates and Cat Stevens. All in all, a pretty good class I suppose. Personally, I'd gladly trade Stevens out in favor of Warren Zevon, who IMO had a much more profound musical and, more specifically, lyrical impact.
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees announced - Nirvana, KISS, Linda Ronstadt, Peter Gabriel, Hall & Oates and Cat Stevens. All in all, a pretty good class I suppose. Personally, I'd gladly trade Stevens out in favor of Warren Zevon, who IMO had a much more profound musical and, more specifically, lyrical impact.
I'd keep Stevens and drop Hall & Oates in favor of Zevon.
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
No, he just had a really big credit line. That’s why ACME went under after Wile E. gave up and moved into the city.
There was a great National Lampoon article covering Wile E. Coyote's lawsuit against Acme.
1 - KISS is in the Hall. Where they should've been a long time ago.
2 - Wile E. was hungry, plain and simple, and road runner is apparently the pumpkin pie of the bird world. I love Wile E. I have him tattooed on my arm. To me he's the reminder to never give up on something, even in the face of utter impossibility and possible failure. :)
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
Maybe someone else had a contract out on the Road Runner and the Coyote was the hitman. It would explain the weapons. The Coyote was just a sicko. I am thinking if they reboot this, the remake will be somewhere inbetween Silence of the Lambs and No Country For Old Men.
Cormac McCarthy's The Coyote should totally be a thing. Along with it's sequel The Road(runner)
And to defend Firefly specifically it never got a full chance. It was mismanaged from the get go by Fox. What show hits it stride in the first 10 episodes? I'd rather watch a hypothetical Season 10 of Firefly than generic and vanilla NCIS repeats on USA network.
I still laugh at your metric comment as if you used a clever turn of phrase to justify what I believe to be a poor example.
Not sure what you mean there at the end except that you seem to think that the love the show recieves from its fans should justify it having continued to exist beyond what was aired and its inability to draw viewers should not have been relevant to its cancellation, because the small group of people who liked it really liked it.
I lament the cancellation of a great show. And I absolutly believe the love Firefly received should have sustained it. I know it did not, I wish it did. It is a lament. I disputed your belief that the ratings and what the "people" want should matter. That somehow the show could not be great because most people did not watch it. It was great and not enough people noticed. Popular taste and Geek tastes often do not click. I was surprised by your premise on a forum that is often defined by obscure and unpopular choices in entertainment.
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
Maybe someone else had a contract out on the Road Runner and the Coyote was the hitman. It would explain the weapons. The Coyote was just a sicko. I am thinking if they reboot this, the remake will be somewhere inbetween Silence of the Lambs and No Country For Old Men.
What if the Road Runner was the contractor?
On a related note. am I the only one who found the Pepe Le Pew cartoons objectionable? That poor cat.
1 - KISS is in the Hall. Where they should've been a long time ago.
2 - Wile E. was hungry, plain and simple, and road runner is apparently the pumpkin pie of the bird world. I love Wile E. I have him tattooed on my arm. To me he's the reminder to never give up on something, even in the face of utter impossibility and possible failure. :)
On a completely different note: Do you think that Wile E. Coyote wanted to kill the Roadrunner because he had something to prove? I mean at some point he obviously found something else to eat. Also, he was clearly a very wealthy coyote.
Maybe someone else had a contract out on the Road Runner and the Coyote was the hitman. It would explain the weapons. The Coyote was just a sicko. I am thinking if they reboot this, the remake will be somewhere inbetween Silence of the Lambs and No Country For Old Men.
What if the Road Runner was the contractor?
Then the Road Runner is the Vince Mcmahon of the carton world.
In a move that seems like it would come from an authoritarian regime, not a fully developed democracy, a Swiss court has forbidden the publication of a book of cartoons critical of Sepp Blatter, president of the international football (soccer) association FIFA — and it has threatened to fine the cartoonist, former football player Olé Andersen, up to 10,000 Swiss francs if it’s published anywhere in the world.
Now I've spent my entire life watching Ole Anderson wrestle, but who knew he was a great soccer player and cartoonist? 4 Horsemen 4Life!
What was the last DC animated film to come out? I'm sure it's been a while since the last one, longer than usual? Maybe I missed one.
Flashpoint.
I skipped it because I wasn't that impressed with the comics and they initiated what is now the DCU. While I like some of the books, I only regularly get Batman anymore.
And to defend Firefly specifically it never got a full chance. It was mismanaged from the get go by Fox. What show hits it stride in the first 10 episodes? I'd rather watch a hypothetical Season 10 of Firefly than generic and vanilla NCIS repeats on USA network.
I still laugh at your metric comment as if you used a clever turn of phrase to justify what I believe to be a poor example.
Not sure what you mean there at the end except that you seem to think that the love the show recieves from its fans should justify it having continued to exist beyond what was aired and its inability to draw viewers should not have been relevant to its cancellation, because the small group of people who liked it really liked it.
I lament the cancellation of a great show. And I absolutly believe the love Firefly received should have sustained it. I know it did not, I wish it did. It is a lament. I disputed your belief that the ratings and what the "people" want should matter. That somehow the show could not be great because most people did not watch it. It was great and not enough people noticed. Popular taste and Geek tastes often do not click. I was surprised by your premise on a forum that is often defined by obscure and unpopular choices in entertainment.
First, i would not use the word unpopular to describe Geek tastes... I think niche is more appropriate.
Second, I never said a show couldn't be great just because its not popular. I am a strong believer that the best thing and the most popular thing are almost never the same thing in any given time.
But It was great and not enough people noticed. is what drives me crazy. It comes close to a whine. One that paints every person who wasn't into it as an active participant in it's demise.
< class="Quote" rel="shroud68">And to defend Firefly specifically it never got a full chance. It was mismanaged from the get go by Fox. What show hits it stride in the first 10 episodes? I'd rather watch a hypothetical Season 10 of Firefly than generic and vanilla NCIS repeats on USA network.
I still laugh at your metric comment as if you used a clever turn of phrase to justify what I believe to be a poor example.
Not sure what you mean there at the end except that you seem to think that the love the show recieves from its fans should justify it having continued to exist beyond what was aired and its inability to draw viewers should not have been relevant to its cancellation, because the small group of people who liked it really liked it.
I lament the cancellation of a great show. And I absolutly believe the love Firefly received should have sustained it. I know it did not, I wish it did. It is a lament. I disputed your belief that the ratings and what the "people" want should matter. That somehow the show could not be great because most people did not watch it. It was great and not enough people noticed. Popular taste and Geek tastes often do not click. I was surprised by your premise on a forum that is often defined by obscure and unpopular choices in entertainment.
First, i would not use the word unpopular to describe Geek tastes... I think niche is more appropriate.
Second, I never said a show couldn't be great just because its not popular. I am a strong believer that the best thing and the most popular thing are almost never the same thing in any given time.
But It was great and not enough people noticed. is what drives me crazy. It comes close to a whine. One that paints every person who wasn't into it as an active participant in it's demise.
I think you are so wrong here on the practical and theoretical level. How is it a whine to call something great but also unnoticed? Its a statement of fact. Poe invented the modern detective story for all intents and nobody noticed. He died obscure. He was great. His stories were great. And unnoticed in his time. Its not a whine.
And Firefly was great and unnoticed in its own way. You are clearly an Alliance stooge.
Comments
Both playdoh and shroud are correct - Firefly failed because mainstream America didn't watch it, and mainstream America didn't watch it because Fox wouldn't commit to a regular timeslot for it. We're Americans - we like consistency. :) But geek culture =/= mainstream American culture. It's a wonder ANYthing we like gets beyond a season, if you think about it.
We'd be so much better off if we didn't treat our fandoms like they were political parties. Instead of "Oh, you like Robotech? That's just a ripoff of Macross." why not "Oh, you liked Robotech? Ever check out the Gundam series?" Instead of "Oh, you think Dr. Who started with Eccleston? Piss off." why not "Check out some of the earlier actors. Yeah, the sets are cheezy but you'll love the stories." Instead of "Oh, you like My Little Pony? When are you coming out?" why not "I've heard it's funny but it's not for me. Then again, I watched a show where a greasy muscled guy in a loincloth fought a guy with a skull face. I may be the one in the closet!"
To go back to the immortal words of brother Henry Rollins, the problem does not lie with those who have the enjoyment of something, but with those who feel the need to judge them for their enjoyment of it. Or, to quote him: "Music doesn't suck right now...YOU suck right now. Comics don't suck right now...YOU suck right now." :)
@solitarerose I don't have anything against CSI I just found the 14 episodes/14 seasons made for a nice pithy little comparison. I wasn't shooting for a battle cry or war whoop or anything.
Although I could get behind a "Damn Wheel of Time!" War whoop. I'd be okay with that.
@playdoughsrepublic no, you do not need to be a card carrying brown coat, wear a Tom Baker scarf or Vulcan ears. We like you just fine doing your own thing. Or I do anyway.
2 - Wile E. was hungry, plain and simple, and road runner is apparently the pumpkin pie of the bird world. I love Wile E. I have him tattooed on my arm. To me he's the reminder to never give up on something, even in the face of utter impossibility and possible failure. :)
On a related note. am I the only one who found the Pepe Le Pew cartoons objectionable? That poor cat.
I skipped it because I wasn't that impressed with the comics and they initiated what is now the DCU. While I like some of the books, I only regularly get Batman anymore.
Second, I never said a show couldn't be great just because its not popular. I am a strong believer that the best thing and the most popular thing are almost never the same thing in any given time.
But It was great and not enough people noticed. is what drives me crazy. It comes close to a whine. One that paints every person who wasn't into it as an active participant in it's demise.
Second, I never said a show couldn't be great just because its not popular. I am a strong believer that the best thing and the most popular thing are almost never the same thing in any given time.
But It was great and not enough people noticed. is what drives me crazy. It comes close to a whine. One that paints every person who wasn't into it as an active participant in it's demise.
I think you are so wrong here on the practical and theoretical level. How is it a whine to call something great but also unnoticed? Its a statement of fact. Poe invented the modern detective story for all intents and nobody noticed. He died obscure. He was great. His stories were great. And unnoticed in his time. Its not a whine.
And Firefly was great and unnoticed in its own way. You are clearly an Alliance stooge.
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