BTW - idk if it's the era, but Shooter sure does write some mysoginistic superheroes and villains (ugh).
To be fair to Jim Shooter, that man has been villainized to almost cartoonish levels for things both on the page and behind the scenes while others such as Gerry Conway are considered gods among men despite being every bit as mysogynistic.
Also, I find myself much more hesitant lately to dismiss those sorts of attitudes as being representative of certain "eras". Readers in the progressive year of 2015 apparently have no problem with Chris Sims bullying a woman to the point of suicidal depression as long as he supplies them with wacky X-Men Secret Wars tie-ins that reference a twenty-two year-old cartoon show.
I'm out of the loop with the Sims issue, so I'll have to check it out later. I only brought Shooter's name up because it was on the credits page as a writer. No personal disrespect to him. As @David_D stated, I was just reacting to what I specifically read. I also know that I've heard some buzz around Shooter's name and that some people don't like him very much. I thought that maybe this is one of those reasons.
On a similar note, I'm a big fan of The Three Stooges and old Warner Bros./Bugs Bunny cartoons. When I watch them I'm cognizant of the era in which they were produced, but I still cringe at some of the jokes and gags throughout. I'm not trying to vilify their content but understand that it was a different time 60-70 some years ago. That's also not to say I wouldn't call out the show/episodes for racist or sexist content; but to demonize them because they can sometimes cross that line, I believe, is disingenuous to the enjoyment of them. I believe anthropologists have a word for this kind of thinking/feeling, but it escapes me right now. In an attempt to understand an earlier culture, one cannot apply the cultural norms of today in an attempt to understand the culture of then. However, that doesn't suggest that we ignore the behavior, for doing so is too close to condoning it.
Same goes with Shooter's writing. I'd probably gloss over it as just being the era if it only happened once an issue, but it felt like the women in the story are merely there to service the whims of the men. I haven't read a lot of The Wasp, but just her dialogue alone (something along the lines of, "Oh, I broke a nail! And I don't have an Emory board here. What am I to do?") is noteworthy. At best the writing is juvenile, and at worst, mysoginistic. As a result, it's making it harder to get through than I originally thought.
Same goes with Shooter's writing. I'd probably gloss over it as just being the era if it only happened once an issue, but it felt like the women in the story are merely there to service the whims of the men. I haven't read a lot of The Wasp, but just her dialogue alone (something along the lines of, "Oh, I broke a nail! And I don't have an Emory board here. What am I to do?") is noteworthy. At best the writing is juvenile, and at worst, mysoginistic. As a result, it's making it harder to get through than I originally thought.
I think misogynistic is too strong a word.
It implies a malice that I don't think was present.
I think it is more a case that guys like Shooter and his contemporaries really just didn't know women as complete people.
Nor did they expect their readers to.
Misogyny implies hatred, while what we had here was mostly ignorance.
Same goes with Shooter's writing. I'd probably gloss over it as just being the era if it only happened once an issue, but it felt like the women in the story are merely there to service the whims of the men. I haven't read a lot of The Wasp, but just her dialogue alone (something along the lines of, "Oh, I broke a nail! And I don't have an Emory board here. What am I to do?") is noteworthy. At best the writing is juvenile, and at worst, mysoginistic. As a result, it's making it harder to get through than I originally thought.
I think misogynistic is too strong a word.
It implies a malice that I don't think was present.
I think it is more a case that guys like Shooter and his contemporaries really just didn't know women as complete people.
Nor did they expect their readers to.
Misogyny implies hatred, while what we had here was mostly ignorance.
I guess that's what I'm trying to say. Their audience wasn't likely 30-40 year old men, but young preteen boys to early 20's men. I get that that was likely who they were writing to.
I do also believe the definition of misogyny has broadened.
I found "Into Darkness" for $5 at a local Supermarket. Bought and finally watched the movie. I have to admit that, up to the point of the reveal, I enjoyed the movie. The political stuff with Star Fleet was interesting. Young Kirk getting knocked down a few pegs and then getting played was fun to watch. Unfortunately, after the reveal there isn't much political stuff left and I found myself comparing the movie to Wrath of Khan. At that point the movie just dragged and I caught myself thinking, "Wow, this is a long movie."
I found "Into Darkness" for $5 at a local Supermarket. Bought and finally watched the movie. I have to admit that, up to the point of the reveal, I enjoyed the movie. The political stuff with Star Fleet was interesting. Young Kirk getting knocked down a few pegs and then getting played was fun to watch. Unfortunately, after the reveal there isn't much political stuff left and I found myself comparing the movie to Wrath of Khan. At that point the movie just dragged and I caught myself thinking, "Wow, this is a long movie."
I liked "Into Darkness" better then I did the first film.
I love the NBA and more specifically the Atlanta Hawks. I've been getting hawks jerseys for about 7 years off eBay when I find a deal on one I like. I've got wish lists a Jon Koncack, Walt Bellamy, and a few others.
I've knocked off my rasheed Wallace jersey and today I found one I don't think I've ever seen #33 shelden Williams
I love the NBA and more specifically the Atlanta Hawks. I've been getting hawks jerseys for about 7 years off eBay when I find a deal on one I like. I've got wish lists a Jon Koncack, Walt Bellamy, and a few others.
I've knocked off my rasheed Wallace jersey and today I found one I don't think I've ever seen #33 shelden Williams
Jon Koncack? The only other person that mentions that name is former Hawk Scott Hastings and that's only because of the huge contract Koncack got right out of college. I think Hastings is still jealous. Btw, Hastings does color for the Nuggets and has a radio show in Denver. He's very good at both.
I found "Into Darkness" for $5 at a local Supermarket. Bought and finally watched the movie. I have to admit that, up to the point of the reveal, I enjoyed the movie. The political stuff with Star Fleet was interesting. Young Kirk getting knocked down a few pegs and then getting played was fun to watch. Unfortunately, after the reveal there isn't much political stuff left and I found myself comparing the movie to Wrath of Khan. At that point the movie just dragged and I caught myself thinking, "Wow, this is a long movie."
I liked "Into Darkness" better then I did the first film.
I wonder if this isn't a generational thing with younger viewers that don't have an emotional connection with the original "Wrath" not minding the "Wrath re-dux"?
I found "Into Darkness" for $5 at a local Supermarket. Bought and finally watched the movie. I have to admit that, up to the point of the reveal, I enjoyed the movie. The political stuff with Star Fleet was interesting. Young Kirk getting knocked down a few pegs and then getting played was fun to watch. Unfortunately, after the reveal there isn't much political stuff left and I found myself comparing the movie to Wrath of Khan. At that point the movie just dragged and I caught myself thinking, "Wow, this is a long movie."
I liked "Into Darkness" better then I did the first film.
I wonder if this isn't a generational thing with younger viewers that don't have an emotional connection with the original "Wrath" not minding the "Wrath re-dux"?
Not in my case - I saw Wrath in the theater and loved it. Saw Into Darkness in the theater as well and loved it for different reasons.
I found "Into Darkness" for $5 at a local Supermarket. Bought and finally watched the movie. I have to admit that, up to the point of the reveal, I enjoyed the movie. The political stuff with Star Fleet was interesting. Young Kirk getting knocked down a few pegs and then getting played was fun to watch. Unfortunately, after the reveal there isn't much political stuff left and I found myself comparing the movie to Wrath of Khan. At that point the movie just dragged and I caught myself thinking, "Wow, this is a long movie."
I liked "Into Darkness" better then I did the first film.
I wonder if this isn't a generational thing with younger viewers that don't have an emotional connection with the original "Wrath" not minding the "Wrath re-dux"?
Maybe but not with me. I an definitely not a younger viewer and grew up with the original movies. I disliked the first reboot Star Trek because I hated the branching off from original continuity.
I was able to get over that for Into Darkness. I thought it was a good retelling or "redux" of Wrath but with enough new stuff that drew me in.
Personally I thought The Three Musketeers ripped off Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan much better than Star Trek Into Darkness did.
I mean, come on. Paul W.S. Anderson recreated the classic Mutara Nebula scene using airships designed by Leonardo da Vinci. How cool is that? All Abrams did was have that assclown from Heroes yell "KHAAANNNN!"
Anyone see where Heavy Metal is reprinting the Jack Kirby mind-blowing artwork for “LORD OF LIGHT?” These works by Geller & Kirby have been mostly unseen before now and they're part of American history because they were the artwork used by the CIA for OPERATION: ARGO in 1979.
Jim Lee: "We knew it would only be a matter of time before we broke him."
Geoff Johns: "And now for the killing blow...the return of Arion, Lord of Atlantis, except this time he's a streetwise rapper who wields magic via his magic Beat Box."
Jim Lee: "Damn, Geoff, that's a killing blow!"
Geoff Johns: "Oh no, Jim...the killing blow is when we bring Atari Force back...but Pakrat looks like a raccoon and Babe is a giant...wait just a goddamn minute...Dart was essentially Gamora...son of a bitch! *WE* wrote Guardians of the Galaxy for those motherf*ckers at Marvel back in the g*dd*mn 80s!"
Well, SOMEBODY is bringing Atari Force back, but it isn't DC...
I love the NBA and more specifically the Atlanta Hawks. I've been getting hawks jerseys for about 7 years off eBay when I find a deal on one I like. I've got wish lists a Jon Koncack, Walt Bellamy, and a few others.
I've knocked off my rasheed Wallace jersey and today I found one I don't think I've ever seen #33 shelden Williams
Jon Koncack? The only other person that mentions that name is former Hawk Scott Hastings and that's only because of the huge contract Koncack got right out of college. I think Hastings is still jealous. Btw, Hastings does color for the Nuggets and has a radio show in Denver. He's very good at both.
When the hawks gave Jon Contract that massive deal (for the time) he was making almost the exact same money as bird, magic, wilkins, and jordan. The nba players union should build him a statue for changing the economics for the players. That deal made every player more money than they ever thought they could make. Contract was the tide that lifted all boats in the nba.
With that said it was one of the worst deals in the 1980s.
I just spent 8 days in French Creek WV on vacation. It was nice but man am I glad to be back home. On the agenda this week: catch up on work, pick out a new fridge and stove for the house, read my back log of knights of the dinner table. I've got like 13 issues unread what have I been doing?
One of my all time favorite baseball stories is how a 1934 baseball team travelled to tokyo and eventually helped the US when they bombed tokyo in WW2. Grantland has a new 30 for 30 short called Spyball that tells the story. I'm so excited to get to watch it.
My almost five year old daughter, who just yesterday was using her boys Superman t-shirt, a skirt, and a fabric tied into a cape, to assemble her own Supergirl outfit, will be ALL OVER THIS.
Comments
On a similar note, I'm a big fan of The Three Stooges and old Warner Bros./Bugs Bunny cartoons. When I watch them I'm cognizant of the era in which they were produced, but I still cringe at some of the jokes and gags throughout. I'm not trying to vilify their content but understand that it was a different time 60-70 some years ago. That's also not to say I wouldn't call out the show/episodes for racist or sexist content; but to demonize them because they can sometimes cross that line, I believe, is disingenuous to the enjoyment of them. I believe anthropologists have a word for this kind of thinking/feeling, but it escapes me right now. In an attempt to understand an earlier culture, one cannot apply the cultural norms of today in an attempt to understand the culture of then. However, that doesn't suggest that we ignore the behavior, for doing so is too close to condoning it.
Same goes with Shooter's writing. I'd probably gloss over it as just being the era if it only happened once an issue, but it felt like the women in the story are merely there to service the whims of the men. I haven't read a lot of The Wasp, but just her dialogue alone (something along the lines of, "Oh, I broke a nail! And I don't have an Emory board here. What am I to do?") is noteworthy. At best the writing is juvenile, and at worst, mysoginistic. As a result, it's making it harder to get through than I originally thought.
It implies a malice that I don't think was present.
I think it is more a case that guys like Shooter and his contemporaries really just didn't know women as complete people.
Nor did they expect their readers to.
Misogyny implies hatred, while what we had here was mostly ignorance.
I do also believe the definition of misogyny has broadened.
dangerousunfortunate when such powerfully negative words are allowed to broaden.Just for the record, that was a UHF reference.
And yes...that's one of the funniest parts of Secret Wars for me - The Human Torch referring to Zsaji as a "Chippee".
Because that's how we referred to the weaker sex back then in the 80s - chippees - am I right?
(Any ladies reading this: I'll own up to being a tremendous pervert, but I *am* joking with the references above.)
I have to admit that, up to the point of the reveal, I enjoyed the movie. The political stuff with Star Fleet was interesting. Young Kirk getting knocked down a few pegs and then getting played was fun to watch. Unfortunately, after the reveal there isn't much political stuff left and I found myself comparing the movie to Wrath of Khan. At that point the movie just dragged and I caught myself thinking, "Wow, this is a long movie."
I've knocked off my rasheed Wallace jersey and today I found one I don't think I've ever seen #33 shelden Williams
Btw, Hastings does color for the Nuggets and has a radio show in Denver. He's very good at both.
I was able to get over that for Into Darkness. I thought it was a good retelling or "redux" of Wrath but with enough new stuff that drew me in.
I mean, come on. Paul W.S. Anderson recreated the classic Mutara Nebula scene using airships designed by Leonardo da Vinci. How cool is that?
All Abrams did was have that assclown from Heroes yell "KHAAANNNN!"
With that said it was one of the worst deals in the 1980s.
On the agenda this week: catch up on work, pick out a new fridge and stove for the house, read my back log of knights of the dinner table. I've got like 13 issues unread what have I been doing?
And some reporting about this from CBR here.
and, he might have a point.
It was a big, incoherent mess, but I really enjoyed it.
I can happily go quite a while before seeing another Editor's Footnote, however.
*
S
*
P
*
O
*
I
*
L
*
E
*
R
*
The chance for a confrontation/collaboration/confrontation between Peter and Otto was too good to miss, and played out very well.
-Placating Playdohsrepublic