It all comes down to taste. It took me a LONG time to appreciate Frank Quitely. For the longest time I felt everyone he drew looked constipated. Heck, he made the Engineer (from the Authority) about as unattractive as possible. That shouldn't *BE* possible! :)
Over time, though, I came to appreciate what he was doing with his artwork.
I'm picking up She-Hulk in trade, so I haven't had a chance to see any of the artwork (outside of what's been posted here). My take on the character was always that she was designed to be oversexed. That was kind of the running joke of the character. So it'll be interesting, from what I'm reading here, to see a somewhat different take on her.
It all comes down to taste. It took me a LONG time to appreciate Frank Quitely. For the longest time I felt everyone he drew looked constipated. Heck, he made the Engineer (from the Authority) about as unattractive as possible. That shouldn't *BE* possible! :)
Over time, though, I came to appreciate what he was doing with his artwork.
I'm picking up She-Hulk in trade, so I haven't had a chance to see any of the artwork (outside of what's been posted here). My take on the character was always that she was designed to be oversexed. That was kind of the running joke of the character. So it'll be interesting, from what I'm reading here, to see a somewhat different take on her.
I had that problem with Quitely, too, up until All Star Superman. I'm not still not sure if it was his artwork that changed or just my opinions toward it. Maybe a bit of both. I do know that I still find his earlier work hard to look at, though.
As for She-Hulk, I've been loving Pulido's work, but those Wimberly issues were painful. I love that Marvel has spent the last several years getting away from a house style and that they're giving more "non-traditional" (by Marvel standards, anyway) artists a shot, but sometimes it works out better than others. I loved those Dexter Soy issues from the early going of the previous Captain Marvel volume, they added an otherworldliness of the book. The weird perspectives, weirder faces, and wonky storytelling of those Wimberly She-Hulks, though... not so much.
A bummer, but considering I thought it was going to end after those 2 or 3 fill-in issues that interrupted the story mid-flow, I'm happy we got as much as we got.
I had that problem with Quitely, too, up until All Star Superman. I'm not still not sure if it was his artwork that changed or just my opinions toward it.
I'd say his style really fit the subject matter.
There's a stiffness to his characters that really suits Silver-Age throwback stories.
All-Star Superman was the first time I saw that Quitely seemed to be able to draw women that didn't look just as husky as the men. They were still stylized, but there was something more feminine about them. Women can be muscular, but they still tend to have a different facial and bone structure that he didn't seem able to grasp in his earlier work.
And not just the women, but the men had more variety, as well. I remember in JLA Earth 2 everyone in the book looked like a linebacker.
That sucks. We all new it wouldn't last, and it sure did last way longer than anyone expected... but it still hurts. I will miss you Superior foes of Spider-man!
Time for the July numbers! I’m running behind for a combination of reasons, some of which I can blame on the guys at The Beat who actually compile the sales figures into readable results, but some of which are personal and are keeping my head busy elsewhere. Excuses aside, here’s a quick look at the latest of the low and the flighty.
First off, there are two notable cancellations (which everyone here has already noted): the much lauded but sadly sinkable Superior Foes Of Spider-Man… and the New Warriors, which just did a swift crash and burn in just a few short months.
Secondly – who were the bona-fide winner at the top of the list? The top guns are Batman, Spider-Man, sinful doings at Marvel, and Guardians. The Top Ten for July runs like this:
1 Rocket Raccoon 1 293,913 copies 2 Batman 33 117,996 copies 3 Amazing Spider-Man 4 117,917 copies 4 Original Sin 5 91,420 copies 5 Spider-Man 2099 1 90,690 copies 6 Original Sin 6 89,324 copies 7 Justice League 32 88,179 copies 8 Grayson 1 81,433 copies 9 Legendary Star-Lord 1 78,501 copies 10 Harley Quinn 8 76,827 copies
Three books over 100,000 copies; four #1’s premiere big; Marvel’s big event continues to deliver; Spider-Man’s new series continues to hold strongly after four issues; Harley Quinn hits the top ten for a second month… and Rocket Raccoon is King of the Hill! Who’da thunk it? Even his Guardians Of The Universe co-hort, Star-Lord, managed to sneak on at ninth position, even though hugely outsold by his ringtailed partner, which would seem to indicate that the movie had some pretty big coattails to ride on.
Finally, the dreaded Carousel of Cancellation Doom – those books most in danger of seeing cancellation in the near-future. Let’s start with DC:
1 The Infinity Man & The Forever People 2 debuts on the list in the top/bottommost slot, booming past everybody else in a mad rush to come face-to-face with the Source. 15,903 units, dropping 36.2% since the first issue. Doomed. 2 Constantine 16 climbs down a notch, still falling, but granted a wee bit of grace by being bumped by IM&FP. At 16,235 units, it slips 2.8% this month, and by 21.7% for the past six months. Hanging on. 3 Swamp Thing 33, one of the original New52, also continues to slide, down to 17,905; down by 3.1% for the month, and 9.4% for the past six. Also barely hanging on, but, unlike Constantine, doesn’t have an upcoming TV show to save it. 4 Star-Spangled War Stories 1 makes an unremarkable debut with 18,762 units sold. This one came out of the blue for me, so I’ve no idea if this is a mini-series or an ongoing, but with those sales and an expected drop for the next issue, it soon won’t be either. I see a DOOMED! Label in its future. 5 Catwoman 33 – another original New52 that’s slipping away, falling to 18,945 units. Not yet in danger, but with a monthly drop of 43.8% and a six-month drop of 24.1%, I’d worry. 6 Worlds’ Finest 25 dips below 20,000 copies, landing at 19,957. Falling this month by 4.5%, six-month slide of 5.0%.
Note that all of the DC’s bottom six are now below 20,000 copies. That’s a concern, but, except for the two noted exceptions, not yet a huge concern as all are still well above the critical 10,000 mark and could yet see resurgence.
On to Marvel:
1 Miracleman 8 claims the lead by grace of the cancellation of the two books ahead of it. 17,654 copies; 7.7% drop this month, and 52.2% for six months. I’d use the ‘D’ word here, but Marvel won’t get rid of this book until it can get to the new material. Really, this book deserves better sales. 2 Elektra 4 jumps in with 19,125 units sold. That’s a 16.0% drop since last month, and 60.0% loss since the first issue. This one can be called: DOOMED! 3 Secret Avengers has a ‘two-fer’ this month with two issues released in July. #5 managed sales of 20,088, falling 5.8%, and #6 dropped an additional 3.3% to 19,453; that’s a six-month -- wait, make that a five-month -- fall of 9.1%. Not very healthy, just falling beneath the critical 20,000 mark. At this rate, not long for this world. 4 Savage Wolverine 21 is dying, hanging at just 20,050; a drop of 3.3%, six month fall of 34.0%. Doesn’t look good, but I expect a resurrection soon. 5 Thunderbolts 28 returns to the list with 21,652. Not too bad, though it could be better. Only a microscopic drop of .6% and a six-month drop of 10.9%. Hmm. Actually, it looks like it might have found its level… 6 All-New Ghost Rider 5 enters the lists with 21,820 units; not altogether a bad number… BUT – a one-month drop of 11.4% and an overall tumble of 56.4% since it’s premiere just a few short months ago suggests that its racing on a fast track to oblivion if it doesn’t find its pace in a hurry.
A quick factoid: two of the books in the DC list and four of the Marvels are still in their single digits, not yet reaching their tenth issues. And one of these was a first issue. Not sure what that means, or if it means anything at all; I just thought it was an interesting observation.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
I think the two #1s from DC in their bottom five shows that the audience has lost a LOT of faith in DC. When they started the New 52, they put out books that were outside the norm, characters that weren't considered mainstream sure things, and they sold quite well. Now, they arrive DOA, meaning shops aren’t even willing to try them any more. Marvel can still launch a book, but I’m thinking that they need to start learning from past sales when starting books. Thunderbolts hasn’t done well for a long time, Secret Avengers has been the low selling spin-off for years now and as much as I love rotating creator books, they just don’t do well. Maybe they make up their money as trades.
Through the 90’s, my favorite Batman book was “Legends of the Dark Knight”, simply because you had creative teams come on to attempt to do big stories they couldn’t do in a monthly continued story setting. However, after the first couple of years, it was the lowest selling of th3e Batman books, and the same holds true for Marvel’s different series like it, like Tangled Web, Savage Wolverine, etc…
I've heard All New Ghost Rider is ending with issue 12. Could be a rumor, but I wouldn't be surprised. I would be very disappointed though.
I'm also told that the reason for the Rocket Raccoon numbers being so high is that Loot Crate made a deal with Marvel and Diamond to include RR#1 that month. I expect issue #2 will likely see a near 70% drop as freebies don't normally convert to continued interest. If Loot Crate bought 150,000 issues, that's still a nice launch for RR and I am inclined to believe the movie helped boost this one to retailers and consumers as well.
I don't know the answer to this, but I presume someone here does. How many more reprint issues of Miracleman is Marvel printing before the much ballyhooed new material begins?
I don't know the answer to this, but I presume someone here does. How many more reprint issues of Miracleman is Marvel printing before the much ballyhooed new material begins?
The original series had 24 issues, so new material starts with 25…although, if I were in charge at Marvel, I’d have a new #1 when Neil Gaiman’s work starts (it sold very poorly when it was first printed). The economics of this series is far different than other comics, in that the series is most likely being printed in order to pay for the cost of digitizing and restoring the old film so that the cost of the eventual hardcovers and trades are lowered.
There are also0 rumors flying the Elektra has been canceled, which doesn’t surprise me, as there was no buildup to the return of the character. Ghost Rider ending is a shame, as I liked this version. Launching new books is hard, even if it IS an Avengers or X-Men book in the current market.
Another war title? It's admirable that DC wants to delve into other genres, but they've done this several times, and more than shown that the sales aren't going to be high enough for them to keep publishing it.
My experience with some of the more obscure titles they've attempted, is that ironically they've ended up being among the least daring of the line. There have been a few standouts, but many were as generic as can be.
The original series had 24 issues, so new material starts with 25…although, if I were in charge at Marvel, I’d have a new #1 when Neil Gaiman’s work starts (it sold very poorly when it was first printed). The economics of this series is far different than other comics, in that the series is most likely being printed in order to pay for the cost of digitizing and restoring the old film so that the cost of the eventual hardcovers and trades are lowered.
I was trying to figure out why they're bothering with the single issues at all, but that economics lesson does make sense. Marvel has appeared to sort of hem & haw about thier plans for MM within the larger Marvel universe, so I hope that ultimately the can do something impressive once they get beyond reprints.
There are also0 rumors flying the Elektra has been canceled, which doesn’t surprise me, as there was no buildup to the return of the character.
You know, I've never understood the idea that Elektra could carry her own ongoing series, much less a movie. Who is the expected audience demographic exacltly? Former Lu dead/brainwashed assassin turned sometimes not-bad guy? Doesn't appeal to me, but apparently there are some fans. Just not enough, apparently.
Totally concur on the ANGR cancellation. (Did you just notice that the initials nearly spell "anger"?)
Another war title? It's admirable that DC wants to delve into other genres, but they've done this several times, and more than shown that the sales aren't going to be high enough for them to keep publishing it... some of the more obscure titles they've attempted, is that ironically they've ended up being among the least daring of the line. There have been a few standouts, but many were as generic as can be.
Agreed. DC doesn't exactly stand for Daring Comics...
1 The Infinity Man & The Forever People 2 debuts on the list in the top/bottommost slot, booming past everybody else in a mad rush to come face-to-face with the Source. 15,903 units, dropping 36.2% since the first issue. Doomed.
Typical. The first DC title I pick up in well over a year, and it probably won't last past issue 6.
You know, I've never understood the idea that Elektra could carry her own ongoing series, much less a movie. Who is the expected audience demographic exacltly? Former Lu dead/brainwashed assassin turned sometimes not-bad guy? Doesn't appeal to me, but apparently there are some fans. Just not enough, apparently
I've always felt the same way about Ghost Rider. I just don't get the appeal of the character as anything other than something to airbrush on the side of a 1970s van.
1 The Infinity Man & The Forever People 2 debuts on the list in the top/bottommost slot, booming past everybody else in a mad rush to come face-to-face with the Source. 15,903 units, dropping 36.2% since the first issue. Doomed.
Typical. The first DC title I pick up in well over a year, and it probably won't last past issue 6.
Why did anyone expect this to succeed after OMAC's failure to thrive?
You know, I've never understood the idea that Elektra could carry her own ongoing series, much less a movie. Who is the expected audience demographic exacltly? Former Lu dead/brainwashed assassin turned sometimes not-bad guy? Doesn't appeal to me, but apparently there are some fans. Just not enough, apparently
I've always felt the same way about Ghost Rider. I just don't get the appeal of the character as anything other than something to airbrush on the side of a 1970s van.
Ghost Rider has always felt very 1970s to me. As a teenager who was just old enough to remember when Evel Knievel was a big deal, I kind of got why the character had been conceived, and why he was still hanging around in the 1980s. But the farther we get from that era, the less it makes sense. I remember back then, none of my friends or I read it, and the only people we knew who did were older kids who read that and nothing else.
I may be a child of the 70's who never cared much for Ghost Rider of that era, but this new iteration definitely has gotten my attention and I think it's a combination of signature artwork and a fresh take on a tired character.
I may be a child of the 70's who never cared much for Ghost Rider of that era, but this new iteration definitely has gotten my attention and I think it's a combination of signature artwork and a fresh take on a tired character.
I haven't read the current version, but I actually enjoyed Jason Aaron's run from several years ago.
I've always felt the same way about Ghost Rider. I just don't get the appeal of the character as anything other than something to airbrush on the side of a 1970s van.
Well he looks pretty awesome.... That's what made me a fan of him; I was 10/11 looking awesome mattered more then (that comment explains a lot of the 90s comics btw).
According to people who worked at Marvel in the 70’s and 80's, Jim Shooter really disliked the Ghost Rider character due to the demonic source of the origin, and actively worked to make the sales drop to the point where he could cancel it (assigning artists who didn’t sell well, not allowing other Marvel characters to show up in the book, etc…) and was frustrated that it still sold. Most of the people in the office said it didn’t matter what they did, the character was so visually arresting that it would sell off the stands.
According to people who worked at Marvel in the 70’s and 80's, Jim Shooter really disliked the Ghost Rider character due to the demonic source of the origin, and actively worked to make the sales drop to the point where he could cancel it (assigning artists who didn’t sell well, not allowing other Marvel characters to show up in the book, etc…) and was frustrated that it still sold. Most of the people in the office said it didn’t matter what they did, the character was so visually arresting that it would sell off the stands.
I don't know the answer to this, but I presume someone here does. How many more reprint issues of Miracleman is Marvel printing before the much ballyhooed new material begins?
Comments
Over time, though, I came to appreciate what he was doing with his artwork.
I'm picking up She-Hulk in trade, so I haven't had a chance to see any of the artwork (outside of what's been posted here). My take on the character was always that she was designed to be oversexed. That was kind of the running joke of the character. So it'll be interesting, from what I'm reading here, to see a somewhat different take on her.
Cory!! Strode High Priest of the CGS Kirby Kult
I would add Punisher to that list. I think Edmundson is doing both Black Widow and Punisher they have both turned into top of the pile books for me.
As for She-Hulk, I've been loving Pulido's work, but those Wimberly issues were painful. I love that Marvel has spent the last several years getting away from a house style and that they're giving more "non-traditional" (by Marvel standards, anyway) artists a shot, but sometimes it works out better than others. I loved those Dexter Soy issues from the early going of the previous Captain Marvel volume, they added an otherworldliness of the book. The weird perspectives, weirder faces, and wonky storytelling of those Wimberly She-Hulks, though... not so much.
There's a stiffness to his characters that really suits Silver-Age throwback stories.
And not just the women, but the men had more variety, as well. I remember in JLA Earth 2 everyone in the book looked like a linebacker.
oh yeah, you too New Warriors.
First off, there are two notable cancellations (which everyone here has already noted): the much lauded but sadly sinkable Superior Foes Of Spider-Man… and the New Warriors, which just did a swift crash and burn in just a few short months.
Secondly – who were the bona-fide winner at the top of the list? The top guns are Batman, Spider-Man, sinful doings at Marvel, and Guardians. The Top Ten for July runs like this:
1 Rocket Raccoon 1 293,913 copies
2 Batman 33 117,996 copies
3 Amazing Spider-Man 4 117,917 copies
4 Original Sin 5 91,420 copies
5 Spider-Man 2099 1 90,690 copies
6 Original Sin 6 89,324 copies
7 Justice League 32 88,179 copies
8 Grayson 1 81,433 copies
9 Legendary Star-Lord 1 78,501 copies
10 Harley Quinn 8 76,827 copies
Three books over 100,000 copies; four #1’s premiere big; Marvel’s big event continues to deliver; Spider-Man’s new series continues to hold strongly after four issues; Harley Quinn hits the top ten for a second month… and Rocket Raccoon is King of the Hill! Who’da thunk it? Even his Guardians Of The Universe co-hort, Star-Lord, managed to sneak on at ninth position, even though hugely outsold by his ringtailed partner, which would seem to indicate that the movie had some pretty big coattails to ride on.
Finally, the dreaded Carousel of Cancellation Doom – those books most in danger of seeing cancellation in the near-future. Let’s start with DC:
1 The Infinity Man & The Forever People 2 debuts on the list in the top/bottommost slot, booming past everybody else in a mad rush to come face-to-face with the Source. 15,903 units, dropping 36.2% since the first issue. Doomed.
2 Constantine 16 climbs down a notch, still falling, but granted a wee bit of grace by being bumped by IM&FP. At 16,235 units, it slips 2.8% this month, and by 21.7% for the past six months. Hanging on.
3 Swamp Thing 33, one of the original New52, also continues to slide, down to 17,905; down by 3.1% for the month, and 9.4% for the past six. Also barely hanging on, but, unlike Constantine, doesn’t have an upcoming TV show to save it.
4 Star-Spangled War Stories 1 makes an unremarkable debut with 18,762 units sold. This one came out of the blue for me, so I’ve no idea if this is a mini-series or an ongoing, but with those sales and an expected drop for the next issue, it soon won’t be either. I see a DOOMED! Label in its future.
5 Catwoman 33 – another original New52 that’s slipping away, falling to 18,945 units. Not yet in danger, but with a monthly drop of 43.8% and a six-month drop of 24.1%, I’d worry.
6 Worlds’ Finest 25 dips below 20,000 copies, landing at 19,957. Falling this month by 4.5%, six-month slide of 5.0%.
Note that all of the DC’s bottom six are now below 20,000 copies. That’s a concern, but, except for the two noted exceptions, not yet a huge concern as all are still well above the critical 10,000 mark and could yet see resurgence.
On to Marvel:
1 Miracleman 8 claims the lead by grace of the cancellation of the two books ahead of it. 17,654 copies; 7.7% drop this month, and 52.2% for six months. I’d use the ‘D’ word here, but Marvel won’t get rid of this book until it can get to the new material. Really, this book deserves better sales.
2 Elektra 4 jumps in with 19,125 units sold. That’s a 16.0% drop since last month, and 60.0% loss since the first issue. This one can be called: DOOMED!
3 Secret Avengers has a ‘two-fer’ this month with two issues released in July. #5 managed sales of 20,088, falling 5.8%, and #6 dropped an additional 3.3% to 19,453; that’s a six-month -- wait, make that a five-month -- fall of 9.1%. Not very healthy, just falling beneath the critical 20,000 mark. At this rate, not long for this world.
4 Savage Wolverine 21 is dying, hanging at just 20,050; a drop of 3.3%, six month fall of 34.0%. Doesn’t look good, but I expect a resurrection soon.
5 Thunderbolts 28 returns to the list with 21,652. Not too bad, though it could be better. Only a microscopic drop of .6% and a six-month drop of 10.9%. Hmm. Actually, it looks like it might have found its level…
6 All-New Ghost Rider 5 enters the lists with 21,820 units; not altogether a bad number… BUT – a one-month drop of 11.4% and an overall tumble of 56.4% since it’s premiere just a few short months ago suggests that its racing on a fast track to oblivion if it doesn’t find its pace in a hurry.
A quick factoid: two of the books in the DC list and four of the Marvels are still in their single digits, not yet reaching their tenth issues. And one of these was a first issue. Not sure what that means, or if it means anything at all; I just thought it was an interesting observation.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
Through the 90’s, my favorite Batman book was “Legends of the Dark Knight”, simply because you had creative teams come on to attempt to do big stories they couldn’t do in a monthly continued story setting. However, after the first couple of years, it was the lowest selling of th3e Batman books, and the same holds true for Marvel’s different series like it, like Tangled Web, Savage Wolverine, etc…
I don't think my FLCS even ordered any copies of Star Spangled War Stories.
I'm also told that the reason for the Rocket Raccoon numbers being so high is that Loot Crate made a deal with Marvel and Diamond to include RR#1 that month. I expect issue #2 will likely see a near 70% drop as freebies don't normally convert to continued interest. If Loot Crate bought 150,000 issues, that's still a nice launch for RR and I am inclined to believe the movie helped boost this one to retailers and consumers as well.
I don't know the answer to this, but I presume someone here does. How many more reprint issues of Miracleman is Marvel printing before the much ballyhooed new material begins?
There are also0 rumors flying the Elektra has been canceled, which doesn’t surprise me, as there was no buildup to the return of the character. Ghost Rider ending is a shame, as I liked this version. Launching new books is hard, even if it IS an Avengers or X-Men book in the current market.
My experience with some of the more obscure titles they've attempted, is that ironically they've ended up being among the least daring of the line. There have been a few standouts, but many were as generic as can be.
Totally concur on the ANGR cancellation. (Did you just notice that the initials nearly spell "anger"?) Agreed. DC doesn't exactly stand for Daring Comics...