Should they look to create characters for other media then bring them into their universes a la Harley Quinn?
Funny... I was just chatting with someone the other day about Marvel's Firestar. This year she finally became an "official" member of the X-Men in the comic universe. Only took her 33 years to make the "real" team after her introduction on the Cartoon show.
I have no problem with the comic books pulling in characters from other media in order to help draw in new readers, as long as it is done in an interesting and respectful way. The exact opposite of what happened with Nick Fury Jr. If anything that mess would just confuse and alienate "new" readers (along with disgusting long-time readers).
But with the success of their superhero films, they're probably better off staying focused on their core superheroes, and occasionally a new character will catch fire a lá Deadpool.
Deadpool was created in 1991. His first solo comic was in 1993. The fact you still think of him as a new character is a great indicator of how poorly Marvel have done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
But with the success of their superhero films, they're probably better off staying focused on their core superheroes, and occasionally a new character will catch fire a lá Deadpool.
Deadpool was created in 1991. His first solo comic was in 1993. The fact you still think of him as a new character is a great indicator of how poorly Marvel have done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
I only think of him as a new character in relation to the core Marvel heroes that were created in the ’60s, as the word new is defined within the context of this discussion. The same way I would think of Adam Warlock or Iron Fist or the Punisher as a new character. Perhaps I should have used quotation marks around “new.”
But with the success of their superhero films, they're probably better off staying focused on their core superheroes, and occasionally a new character will catch fire a lá Deadpool.
Deadpool was created in 1991. His first solo comic was in 1993. The fact you still think of him as a new character is a great indicator of how poorly Marvel have done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
I only think of him as a new character in relation to the core Marvel heroes that were created in the ’60s, as the word new is defined within the context of this discussion. The same way I would think of Adam Warlock or Iron Fist or the Punisher as a new character. Perhaps I should have used quotation marks around “new.”
Since the Punisher first appeared in the Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #129 in 1974, would that mean Venom would still be considered a "new" villain? He was featured in the Marvel Studios movie two films (or 7 years) ago and has been around since 1982.
:)
Then again, Deadpool appeared in Wolverine: Origins only 5 years ago. So he is much newer than the Punisher or Venom. Or are you saying all heroes created post 60's Marvel are always going to be considered a new character? I'm inclined to agree partially with @Brack that all of this is indicative of how poorly Marvel has done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
Should they look to create characters for other media then bring them into their universes a la Harley Quinn?
Funny... I was just chatting with someone the other day about Marvel's Firestar. This year she finally became an "official" member of the X-Men in the comic universe. Only took her 33 years to make the "real" team after her introduction on the Cartoon show.
I have no problem with the comic books pulling in characters from other media in order to help draw in new readers, as long as it is done in an interesting and respectful way. The exact opposite of what happened with Nick Fury Jr. If anything that mess would just confuse and alienate "new" readers (along with disgusting long-time readers).
I was thinking about how the most successful new character marvel has launched in recent time is Phil Coulson. He's been in movies, tv shows, cartoons and everyone who is remotely familiar with the MCU knows who he is. He's been introduced kinda weakly in the comics but still. Imagine if they did that with new superheroes?
Actually, thinking about it, I have to give DC some credit. They tried Batwing, Talon, The Movement, I'm sure a few other brand new properties though they've all been failures.
But with the success of their superhero films, they're probably better off staying focused on their core superheroes, and occasionally a new character will catch fire a lá Deadpool.
Deadpool was created in 1991. His first solo comic was in 1993. The fact you still think of him as a new character is a great indicator of how poorly Marvel have done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
I only think of him as a new character in relation to the core Marvel heroes that were created in the ’60s, as the word new is defined within the context of this discussion. The same way I would think of Adam Warlock or Iron Fist or the Punisher as a new character. Perhaps I should have used quotation marks around “new.”
Since the Punisher first appeared in the Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #129 in 1974, would that mean Venom would still be considered a "new" villain? He was featured in the Marvel Studios movie two films (or 7 years) ago and has been around since 1982.
:)
Then again, Deadpool appeared in Wolverine: Origins only 5 years ago. So he is much newer than the Punisher or Venom. Or are you saying all heroes created post 60's Marvel are always going to be considered a new character? I'm inclined to agree partially with @Brack that all of this is indicative of how poorly Marvel has done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
I'm only applying the term “new” to those characters for the purposes of this discussion, which stemmed from what @playdohsrepublic said:
I think that the Silver Age was successful at launching so many new characters because relevancy wasn't an issue. Yes these characters co existed but there was no driving narrative to the whole universe so the books were all on even footing.
Basically, within the context of this discussion only, any character created after the Silver Age is “new,” because those characters created in the Silver Age (or in DC’s case the Golden Age) are, with rare exception, the only “successful” characters at the Big Two.
People keep saying that DC and Marvel have done poor jobs launching new characters. I would argue they do a lot more in terms of planning and crafting, as well as marketing and promotion, when launching new characters today than they did when they launched Spider-Man or Superman or Hulk or Batman—you name the core character.
Spider-Man was a character they just threw into the last issue of a book that was being cancelled. He was a throwaway character that just happened to spark the readers’ interest. Superman was turned down by several publishers as being too goofy before National took a flier on it and accidentally struck gold. Where was the grand launching plan for them? There was none. They just happened to come out with the right ideas, with the right creators, at the right time. Just like what happened with the Punisher and with Deadpool.
“The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men gang aft agley.”
But with the success of their superhero films, they're probably better off staying focused on their core superheroes, and occasionally a new character will catch fire a lá Deadpool.
Deadpool was created in 1991. His first solo comic was in 1993. The fact you still think of him as a new character is a great indicator of how poorly Marvel have done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
I only think of him as a new character in relation to the core Marvel heroes that were created in the ’60s, as the word new is defined within the context of this discussion. The same way I would think of Adam Warlock or Iron Fist or the Punisher as a new character. Perhaps I should have used quotation marks around “new.”
Since the Punisher first appeared in the Amazing Spider-Man Vol 1 #129 in 1974, would that mean Venom would still be considered a "new" villain? He was featured in the Marvel Studios movie two films (or 7 years) ago and has been around since 1982.
:)
Then again, Deadpool appeared in Wolverine: Origins only 5 years ago. So he is much newer than the Punisher or Venom. Or are you saying all heroes created post 60's Marvel are always going to be considered a new character? I'm inclined to agree partially with @Brack that all of this is indicative of how poorly Marvel has done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
Spidey only got the symbiote in 1984. I think Venom is a product of early 90s.
Spidey only got the symbiote in 1984. I think Venom is a product of early 90s.
M
Hmm... you could make that argument since he first appeared in 1988, but I think he's appeared in every Marvel book since then. He's no longer "new" to me :)
Spidey only got the symbiote in 1984. I think Venom is a product of early 90s.
M
Hmm... you could make that argument since he first appeared in 1988, but I think he's appeared in every Marvel book since then. He's no longer "new" to me :)
Oh, I wasn't contesting that. You listed his appearance as 1982. My first comic was Amazing Spider-man #251, and that 1984.
It’s time once again to look at the numbers and follow the trails of the Six Lowest Selling comics for each of the Big Two companies as these titles slowly sink into oblivion!
A quick look at the winners at the top of the chart, which is split between Batman and Spider-Man. Spider-Man hit it big with the last issue of Superior Spider-Man (#31), sitting pretty in the number two slot with 135,484 copies sold... and then hit it even bigger with the first issue of the new Amazing Spider-Man in the top slot, with well over a half-million copies sold!!! The first issue of the new Hulk took #7 with 73,551 (a 144.8% increase over the last issue of Indestructible Hulk), and the 0 issue of Original Sin jumped into #8 with 73,024 copies.
Batman, on the other hand, took five slots all by himself: Batman #30 is perched at #3 with 108,998 copies, and then the first four issues of Batman Eternal takes the remaining four slots at #’s 4, 6, 9 and 10 respectively, with respective sales of 105,754... 84,566... 79,703... and 78,009 You can see the curve of diminishing returns right there, but it appears to be simply settling into a respectable level, hardly anything to get concerned about.
Before getting to the losers, a quick reminder that I'm only noting the mainstream DC and Marvel titles here -- no Digital Firsts, Vertigo, Max, Johnny DC or Ultimates since most of these fall under different rules of sales, distribution and cancellation.
The big news of the past couple of weeks is that DC cancelled all six of their lowest sellers, which is nothing short of a Grand Slam! Even the tenacious All-Star Western finally rode off into the sunset. Most of the cancelled titles were part of the original New52. Now, we open with a whole new list of potential candidates for cancellation, but these newbies still have a slight hope of survival as their numbers aren’t yet as poor as those recently axed, so things aren’t quite so dire for them just yet. They still have a chance! Let’s have a look...
1- Constantine #13 jumps to the top of the Bottom Six with a mere 18,454 copies. Not too bad, really, and the fact that there is a TV show right on the horizon may even lend some survival points for awhile, so, in spite of its position on the list, I don’t see it being in too much danger. Still, it drops 8.0% in sales this month and has a six-month drop of 19.6%. 2- Swamp Thing #30 shambles in next with 18,456 units, dropping 1.6%, and tumbles 53.4% for a six month period, the biggest drop on the whole list. Not healthy. 3- Batwoman #30 slips 2.8% to 19,204 copies. That’s a six month drop of 25.0%. Worrisome... but not yet a major concern. 4- Catwoman #30 teeters just above the 20,000 mark with 20,968 copies. That’s a monthly loss of 5.7% and six month loss of 40.3%. Falling fast. 5- Worlds’ Finest #22 sits at 21,485 units, dropping 16.3%, but only 6.5% over six months. I hear a shake-up is in the works. 6- Red Hood & The Outlaws -- what? This is still out there!? -- #30 slips to 21,718 copies, dropping 2,7% for the month, and 19.9% for six months. And with this title, that makes another four of the original New52 edging towards cancellation.
Note that for the first time in a long time the six lowest selling DC’s are on a level with the six lowest Marvel titles. Parity has been attained!
Now, for the Marvel side of the street:
1- Superior Foes Of Spider-Man #11 continues to hold at the top slot with 18,143 copies. Single month drop of 1.6%, six-month drop of 32.5%. 2- Iron Patriot hurtles into second position with it’s second issue, obviously in a hurry to get cancelled as quickly as possible. It sold 18,495 copies, a drop of 41.8%. There’s no six-month calculation for this book, obviously, but the prognosis isn’t very good; Marvel may want to save face by relabeling this as a limited series. Because, let’s face it... 3- Superior Team-Up #12 sold 20,525 units, for a drop of 2.7% and a six-month fall of 43.5%. There hasn’t been any new solicitations for the book recently, but no announcement of any cancellation just yet. 4- Nova gets pushed up a notch as #16 manages 22,020 copies; that’s a further drop of 4.2% and a six-month loss of 31.9% 5- Savage Wolverine remains in place, still sinking but not dropping from this slot. #17 moved 22,530 units, dropping 6.9% and 38.7% for six months. 6- Thunderbolts falls a little more slowly with issue #25, down 2.3% to 22,092 units. Six-month drop of 24.7% Hanging in there.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
For the three books on the list that I read (or did read):
Batwoman survived mainly because of the JH Williams art. With him gone, there is really no reason to stick around.
World's Finest: i dropped off this book a few months ago due to a terrible change in artists. I am guessing a lot of other people did too. The art team is changing again in a couple of issues and I am jumping back on. There is a major plot shakeup - SPOILER ALERT!!!! SPOILER ALERT!!!! stop reading now or else:
Power Girl and Huntress are being dumped for Superman and Batman of Earth 2. I think this will bump up sales for a while as DC continues its slow march to a Superman / Batman titles only universe.
I still read Catwoman. I know some do not like the N52 interpretation of the character. I think however that the book suffers from being dragged into whatever Batman crossover is going on. The Catwoman story or development has to always stop for an issue or two to deal with the crossover story. They should just cancel this title and start up a Batman/Catwoman teamup book to get Batman in another title.
Both Superior Foes Of Spider-Man and Nova are amazing books. Easily two of my favorite reads each month and I'm sad to see them so low on the list. Get out there and spread the word people!
Both Superior Foes Of Spider-Man and Nova are amazing books. Easily two of my favorite reads each month and I'm sad to see them so low on the list. Get out there and spread the word people!
Agreed! Although I much prefer the previous DnA incarnation of Nova (Richard Rider, Where are you!?!) to this new, improved "Kid Nova", it is still a pretty fun book! Now that Gerry Duggan has taken over the writing, every issue is getting better. And sure do love the Paco Medina artwork.
The holiday slowed me down a little, but now let’s have some fireworks as we spin the Flaming Wheel of Comic Book Doom!
First, the positive side of the street: DC took the majority of the Top Ten slots, but only one title crossed the 100,000 mark:
4 Batman #31 107,499 5 Forever Evil #7 96,098 7 Justice League #7 77,456 8 The New 52: Future’s End #0 ? 9 The New 52: Future’s End #1 77,867 10 Batman Eternal #8 68,523
Right now, it seems the only DC character who can easily hit the Top Ten is Batman. I note that both of the weekly comics are taking quick fades as the sales fall away each week, though neither is really in any serious danger at this point. (For some reason, there’s no sales figure listed for Future’s End #0, but they’re charting it in at #8, so a guess would be roughly 77,500.)
Marvel took the four remaining slots, but with much more exuberance!
1 Original Sin #1 147,045 2 Amazing Spider-Man #2 123,945 3 Amazing Spider-Man #1.1 116,453 6 Original Sin #2 92,643
Original Sin is also dropping quickly, but not so deep as to be concerned. And Amazing Spider-Man must be doing something right as his drops are so slight that he’s still keeping above the 100,000 mark.
We’ll get the disclaimer out of the way: I'm only noting the mainstream DC and Marvel titles here -- no Digital Firsts, Vertigo, Max, Johnny DC or Ultimates since most of these fall under different rules of sales, distribution and cancellation.
DC’s bottom-most six didn’t change at all from last month; the status quo holds.
1- Constantine #14 holds the top spot with 17,422 copies, a drop of about a thousand copies this month. It drops 5.5% in sales this month and has a six-month drop of 17.0%. With a TV series premiering this fall, even the top slot on the soon-to-be-doomed list won’t kill him just yet. It’s magic! 2- Swamp Thing #31 holds at second with 18,249 units, dropping 1.1%, and tumbles 13.7% for a six month period. These are small drops, meaning the series may be finding a new level. 3- Batwoman #31 slips 3.9% to 18,463 copies. That’s a six month drop of 29.0%. Slipping faster... but maybe not yet so bad it couldn’t be saved. 4- Catwoman #31 teeters just above the 20,000 mark with 20,144 copies. That’s a monthly loss of 3.9% and six month loss of 31.6%. It’s interesting to note that the 31st issue of the previous series was 4,000 units higher back in 2004. 5- Worlds’ Finest #23 sits at 21,118 units, dropping 1.7%, but only 3.7% over six months. Slamming the brakes hard as it finally finds its level. 6- Red Hood & The Outlaws #31 slips to 21,257 copies, dropping 2.1% for the month, and 30.6% for six months. Still there, not yet ready to die.
Meanwhile, back at Marvel:
1- The new New Warriors title crashes into the list, blasting its way right to the top with #4 with 19,900 copies. Single month drop of 13.9%, and a three-month drop of 43.5%. DOOMED! 2- Savage Wolverine takes a sudden tumble into second place. (I think this is due more to some sudden vacancies opening up in the list than anything else.) #18 sold 21,599 copies and #19 sold 21,144 copies; those are respective drops of 3.4% and 2.1%, and a six-month fall of 28.9%. 3- Nova #17 rockets into third with 21,652 units, a drop of 1.7% and a six-month fall of 33.8%. An appearance in the GOTG movie might help... is it too late to arrange? 4- Thunderbolts #26 slips a notch, moving 21,771 units, dropping 1.5% and 17.9% for six months. 5- All-New Invaders slips into the list with issue #5 (not a good sign), down 4.7% to 21,843 units. Six-month drop of 40.0% Hanging in there. 6- Miracleman returns to the list with issue #6 after selling 20,598 units. An 8.0% drop and an overall five-month fall of 39.4%.
Superior Foes Of Spider-Man makes no appearance – perhaps it skipped this month? Iron Patriot is ending with #5; unknown if it was cancelled or relabeled as a limited series after the fact.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
1- The new New Warriors title crashes into the list, blasting its way right to the top with #4 with 19,900 copies. Single month drop of 13.9%, and a three-month drop of 43.5%. DOOMED!
I'm starting the get the feeling that the New Warriors are Marvel's new version of the Defenders... so many attempts, but just can't keep their own title alive for long. As Chucked said "DOOMED!", which goes without saying, because I really am enjoying this book (my reading preferences are the kiss of death).
I got a big chuckle out of that preview page. Cover artwork was the perfect match. Should we start laying bets how long this "gem" holds on? I'm shocked to say, but I'm thinking it just might make it to the 20s!
Nova - I don't get it. He's all over the place...he kicked off Original Sin..he kicked off AvX...he's guest starred in a number of titles..Marvel Cosmic is big right now..fun story and amazing art..and his book doesn't sell?
New Warriors has turned into a very fun read. It's too bad that the first issue wasn't that great.
All-New Invaders is a really good read too and the art is amazing. Plus, any book that uses Aarkus deserves to be read by everyone.
SWAMP THING's great! Probably the smartest title being put out at the Big Two right now. Every issue is a meaty read filled with content. (Somewhere in there, there's a joke about "meaty" and a talking plant.) You've got a great supporting cast full of well fleshed-out NEW CHARACTERS, and you've got old concepts being used in new ways that AREN'T just retreads of the Alan Moore run.
I really hope the series is finally finding its new level, because it's wonderful!
I should probably note that DC's bottom six aren't quite in the jeopardy that such a position might suggest -- their numbers, while low, are still above the 10,000 mark which is where DC generally cancels books. (Marvel seems to cut them off at the 20,000 mark.) Swamp Thing's sales at 17,000 - 18,000 isn't great and a bit worrisome, but not yet near fatal even though it's in the second-lowest selling slot.
Strange to consider these sales figures when you compare them to the top 10 books in the early 1970's which were all selling between half a million to a quarter million copies a month. Of course funny books only cost around .15 to .20 cents back then. I think people can't justify spending $4 - $5 on a monthly comic as much as we did in the 70's when that same amount bought almost 20 comics. It's a whole different market.
It's not just a different market, but that the dollar has less spending power than it did in the 70's. I earned a lot less back then, but had most of the same expenses as today, and I could easily spare a good percentage of my paycheck into comics each week. My pay today is much higher, but the percentage I can spare for comics is far less; everything (not just comics) is more expensive, but the price increase of everything far outstrips any and all incremental pay increases.
When I was in college in the '90s, I sometimes imagined the day when I could indulge my hobbies with a larger paycheck.
Those days are here, but everything costs so much that comics and such often fall by the wayside. Granted, I have far more responsibilities, but I was able to buy comics, CDs, food, alcohol, go to films and concerts, all while living in a dorm and working a student job for just a few hours a week. Today, that small salary wouldn't cover even one of those things to any substantial degree.
There was a little bit of delay as the Beat columns I get this data from each came out on opposite ends of the recent SDCC – and then I got caught up in personal stuff for several days. (But I’m not getting paid for this anyway...) But here’s the newest list of potentially doomed titles from the big two publishers for July, 2014.
First, a look at the brighter side: DC edged Marvel out of the Top Ten slots by taking five, but there’s some unusual stuff going on concerning the variants – this month begins a new practice for DC where they now make the variants to order rather than ship them by ratio of the vendor’s order. That’s caused some unexpected bumps in sales for the titles involved:
1 Batman #32 130,077 - jumps up 19.2% in sales 4 Harley Quinn #7 93,266 - up by 49.3% 5 Superman #32 89,140 - up a whopping 119.9%!! 8 Justice League #31 10 Detective Comics #32 72,988 - up by 33.9%
Justice League is a month behind, so this issue wasn’t part of the new variant change. Superman begins the new storyline drawn by John Romita Jr, so it’s difficult to tell how much of the sales increase is attributed to that and how much is attributed to the variant, but obviously both together gave it a good kick upwards. Batman continues to hang high above the 100,000 mark. And the creative team on Harley Quinn must be ecstatic, rocketing into the Top Ten at all. And note that there's three Bat-books sitting in the top ten. (Plus, he's also a Justice Leaguer.) Has the Bat done this well since the days of the TV show?
Marvel takes four slots, still riding high on Spider-Man’s return, and hitting big with rampant sins.
2 Amazing Spider-Man #3 109,029 3 Original Sin #3 93,351 6 Original Sin #4 88,508 7 Amazing Spider-Man #1.2 86,315
All dropping in sales, but still firmly sitting at the top; Amazing Spider-Man is still topping above 100,000. Whatever else you might say, what they're doing seems to be working. Spider-Man should return every day.
And now, the disclaimer: I'm only noting the mainstream DC and Marvel titles here -- no Digital Firsts, Vertigo, Max, Johnny DC or Ultimates since most of these fall under different rules of sales, distribution and cancellation.
DC’s bottom-most six changes slightly; I wouldn’t be surprised if Batwoman and Catwoman escaped by benefit of their variants. Although these DC books are at the bottom of the pile, they are all still well above the dreaded 10,000 mark where DC generally will cancel a title, so, while weak, they aren’t necessarily in danger of vanishing just yet.
1- Constantine #15 maintains a death-grip at the top spot with 16,704 copies, falling another 4.1% in sales this month and 25.4% over six months. 2- Swamp Thing #32 still at second with 18,483 units, actually climbing upwards a tick by 1.3%, the only title on the list to do so, but still sliding 8.7% over a six month period. Overall, I’d say the book has found it’s level and may stick – we might see a lot of other titles slide down past it in the next few months. 3- Worlds’ Finest #24 may have also found its level, slipping a mere 1.0% (20,900 copies), and a surprising six month drop of only 0.7%. The brakes are not only on, but seem to be slamming quite hard. A good sign, despite moving two slots up, especially while holding above the 20,000 mark. 4- Supergirl #32 enters the list for the first time with 22,481 copies. That’s still well above any serious cancellation level, and, like the two books above it, seems to be finding a level as well. One month loss of 1.3% and six month loss of 0.7%. Maybe the Red Lantern storyline is finding a new audience for Kara. 5- Aquaman & The Others #3 also enters the list for the first time with 23,109 units. Not an auspicious place for a brand new title, but, as noted, the numbers aren’t yet anywhere near disastrous. Still, three issues in and the book drops 11.8% in one month and 67.9% since the first issue -- well, that’s not healthy. 6- Green Lantern: The New Guardians #32 works its way onto the list with sales of 23,142 -- a drop of 3.1% and a six-month loss of 24.1%. Still safely above cancellation, but… could the Blackest Night be approaching?
The Marvel lists:
1- The Superior Foes Of Spider-Man (#12) return to the list to reclaim the #1 position, selling only 17,826 copies. Single issue drop of 1.7%, and a six-month drop of 16.6%. Why this book isn’t yet cancelled, I can’t say, other than some angel in the offices is watching over it. 2- New Warriors #6 continues to challenge for the top slot, selling 18,156 units, dropping 2.3% for the month and 39.7% since the first issue. STILL DOOMED! 3- Miracleman #7 now falls below the magic cancellation number of 20,000 with sales of 19,123 copies, falling 7.2% since the previous issue and 36.6% since the first issue. If it weren’t for the trouble Marvel went through to get this series, I’d declare it DOOMED as well -- but I think they’ll play it out for a long while yet. 4- Savage Wolverine #20 hangs by a clawtip just above the cancellation mark (but he’s dead now anyway, isn’t he?) by moving 20,725 units. That’s a small tumble of only 2.0%, but a six-month slide of 24.6%. 5- Secret Avengers sneaks onto the list with issue #4 (really not a good sign), down 6.7% to 21,335 units. Six-month drop of 7.9%. Some re-assembly may be required. 6- Thunderbolts remains in this slot with #27, moving 21,778 units, managing the impressive task of making no noticeable move upwards or downwards this month. That’s a monthly move of 0% for those who love numbers, though the six-month stretch is still showing a 12.7% slide.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
@Chuck_Melville a usual cancellation number would not apply to the Miracleman singles, as the cost to produce it would be far less than a new book. And given that the real market for Miracleman will likely be the long tail of collections and digital, as well as the inevitable uptick once they get to new Gaiman content and finish the story, the fact that they can sell tens of thousands of these reprint singles (at $5/pop, I think) is all win for them. As I have explained before, Miracleman is a different enough situation from other books in the line, that is probably not worth your even including on your gleeful 'this might get cancelled' list.
and not to sound like a broken record... but if I could only get my hands on one Marvel comic a month, I would pick The Superior Foes of Spider-Man. It defies all logic that this book is still going, and I love it. We all know that this title will end any minute, so I'll take what I can get.
@Chuck_Melville a usual cancellation number would not apply to the Miracleman singles, as the cost to produce it would be far less than a new book. And given that the real market for Miracleman will likely be the long tail of collections and digital, as well as the inevitable uptick once they get to new Gaiman content and finish the story, the fact that they can sell tens of thousands of these reprint singles (at $5/pop, I think) is all win for them. As I have explained before, Miracleman is a different enough situation from other books in the line, that is probably not worth your even including on your gleeful 'this might get cancelled' list.
True about Miracleman's special situation.
BTW: I sold my original Miracleman issues at HeroesCon & offset my con expenses!
Comments
I have no problem with the comic books pulling in characters from other media in order to help draw in new readers, as long as it is done in an interesting and respectful way. The exact opposite of what happened with Nick Fury Jr. If anything that mess would just confuse and alienate "new" readers (along with disgusting long-time readers).
:)
Then again, Deadpool appeared in Wolverine: Origins only 5 years ago. So he is much newer than the Punisher or Venom. Or are you saying all heroes created post 60's Marvel are always going to be considered a new character? I'm inclined to agree partially with @Brack that all of this is indicative of how poorly Marvel has done launching new characters in the last 20 years.
Actually, thinking about it, I have to give DC some credit. They tried Batwing, Talon, The Movement, I'm sure a few other brand new properties though they've all been failures.
People keep saying that DC and Marvel have done poor jobs launching new characters. I would argue they do a lot more in terms of planning and crafting, as well as marketing and promotion, when launching new characters today than they did when they launched Spider-Man or Superman or Hulk or Batman—you name the core character.
Spider-Man was a character they just threw into the last issue of a book that was being cancelled. He was a throwaway character that just happened to spark the readers’ interest. Superman was turned down by several publishers as being too goofy before National took a flier on it and accidentally struck gold. Where was the grand launching plan for them? There was none. They just happened to come out with the right ideas, with the right creators, at the right time. Just like what happened with the Punisher and with Deadpool.
“The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men gang aft agley.”
M
M
Randy Schueller's Brush With Comic Fame: Venom
A quick look at the winners at the top of the chart, which is split between Batman and Spider-Man. Spider-Man hit it big with the last issue of Superior Spider-Man (#31), sitting pretty in the number two slot with 135,484 copies sold... and then hit it even bigger with the first issue of the new Amazing Spider-Man in the top slot, with well over a half-million copies sold!!! The first issue of the new Hulk took #7 with 73,551 (a 144.8% increase over the last issue of Indestructible Hulk), and the 0 issue of Original Sin jumped into #8 with 73,024 copies.
Batman, on the other hand, took five slots all by himself: Batman #30 is perched at #3 with 108,998 copies, and then the first four issues of Batman Eternal takes the remaining four slots at #’s 4, 6, 9 and 10 respectively, with respective sales of 105,754... 84,566... 79,703... and 78,009 You can see the curve of diminishing returns right there, but it appears to be simply settling into a respectable level, hardly anything to get concerned about.
Before getting to the losers, a quick reminder that I'm only noting the mainstream DC and Marvel titles here -- no Digital Firsts, Vertigo, Max, Johnny DC or Ultimates since most of these fall under different rules of sales, distribution and cancellation.
The big news of the past couple of weeks is that DC cancelled all six of their lowest sellers, which is nothing short of a Grand Slam! Even the tenacious All-Star Western finally rode off into the sunset. Most of the cancelled titles were part of the original New52. Now, we open with a whole new list of potential candidates for cancellation, but these newbies still have a slight hope of survival as their numbers aren’t yet as poor as those recently axed, so things aren’t quite so dire for them just yet. They still have a chance! Let’s have a look...
1- Constantine #13 jumps to the top of the Bottom Six with a mere 18,454 copies. Not too bad, really, and the fact that there is a TV show right on the horizon may even lend some survival points for awhile, so, in spite of its position on the list, I don’t see it being in too much danger. Still, it drops 8.0% in sales this month and has a six-month drop of 19.6%.
2- Swamp Thing #30 shambles in next with 18,456 units, dropping 1.6%, and tumbles 53.4% for a six month period, the biggest drop on the whole list. Not healthy.
3- Batwoman #30 slips 2.8% to 19,204 copies. That’s a six month drop of 25.0%. Worrisome... but not yet a major concern.
4- Catwoman #30 teeters just above the 20,000 mark with 20,968 copies. That’s a monthly loss of 5.7% and six month loss of 40.3%. Falling fast.
5- Worlds’ Finest #22 sits at 21,485 units, dropping 16.3%, but only 6.5% over six months. I hear a shake-up is in the works.
6- Red Hood & The Outlaws -- what? This is still out there!? -- #30 slips to 21,718 copies, dropping 2,7% for the month, and 19.9% for six months. And with this title, that makes another four of the original New52 edging towards cancellation.
Note that for the first time in a long time the six lowest selling DC’s are on a level with the six lowest Marvel titles. Parity has been attained!
Now, for the Marvel side of the street:
1- Superior Foes Of Spider-Man #11 continues to hold at the top slot with 18,143 copies. Single month drop of 1.6%, six-month drop of 32.5%.
2- Iron Patriot hurtles into second position with it’s second issue, obviously in a hurry to get cancelled as quickly as possible. It sold 18,495 copies, a drop of 41.8%. There’s no six-month calculation for this book, obviously, but the prognosis isn’t very good; Marvel may want to save face by relabeling this as a limited series. Because, let’s face it...
3- Superior Team-Up #12 sold 20,525 units, for a drop of 2.7% and a six-month fall of 43.5%. There hasn’t been any new solicitations for the book recently, but no announcement of any cancellation just yet.
4- Nova gets pushed up a notch as #16 manages 22,020 copies; that’s a further drop of 4.2% and a six-month loss of 31.9%
5- Savage Wolverine remains in place, still sinking but not dropping from this slot. #17 moved 22,530 units, dropping 6.9% and 38.7% for six months.
6- Thunderbolts falls a little more slowly with issue #25, down 2.3% to 22,092 units. Six-month drop of 24.7% Hanging in there.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
Fingers crossed it can hang in there for at least a few more fun filled months.
Thanks again for this awesome, pun laden thread Chuck!
Keep up the good work.
Batwoman survived mainly because of the JH Williams art. With him gone, there is really no reason to stick around.
World's Finest: i dropped off this book a few months ago due to a terrible change in artists. I am guessing a lot of other people did too. The art team is changing again in a couple of issues and I am jumping back on. There is a major plot shakeup - SPOILER ALERT!!!!
SPOILER ALERT!!!! stop reading now or else:
Power Girl and Huntress are being dumped for Superman and Batman of Earth 2. I think this will bump up sales for a while as DC continues its slow march to a Superman / Batman titles only universe.
I still read Catwoman. I know some do not like the N52 interpretation of the character. I think however that the book suffers from being dragged into whatever Batman crossover is going on. The Catwoman story or development has to always stop for an issue or two to deal with the crossover story. They should just cancel this title and start up a Batman/Catwoman teamup book to get Batman in another title.
Although I much prefer the previous DnA incarnation of Nova (Richard Rider, Where are you!?!) to this new, improved "Kid Nova", it is still a pretty fun book! Now that Gerry Duggan has taken over the writing, every issue is getting better. And sure do love the Paco Medina artwork.
First, the positive side of the street: DC took the majority of the Top Ten slots, but only one title crossed the 100,000 mark:
4 Batman #31 107,499
5 Forever Evil #7 96,098
7 Justice League #7 77,456
8 The New 52: Future’s End #0 ?
9 The New 52: Future’s End #1 77,867
10 Batman Eternal #8 68,523
Right now, it seems the only DC character who can easily hit the Top Ten is Batman. I note that both of the weekly comics are taking quick fades as the sales fall away each week, though neither is really in any serious danger at this point. (For some reason, there’s no sales figure listed for Future’s End #0, but they’re charting it in at #8, so a guess would be roughly 77,500.)
Marvel took the four remaining slots, but with much more exuberance!
1 Original Sin #1 147,045
2 Amazing Spider-Man #2 123,945
3 Amazing Spider-Man #1.1 116,453
6 Original Sin #2 92,643
Original Sin is also dropping quickly, but not so deep as to be concerned. And Amazing Spider-Man must be doing something right as his drops are so slight that he’s still keeping above the 100,000 mark.
We’ll get the disclaimer out of the way: I'm only noting the mainstream DC and Marvel titles here -- no Digital Firsts, Vertigo, Max, Johnny DC or Ultimates since most of these fall under different rules of sales, distribution and cancellation.
DC’s bottom-most six didn’t change at all from last month; the status quo holds.
1- Constantine #14 holds the top spot with 17,422 copies, a drop of about a thousand copies this month. It drops 5.5% in sales this month and has a six-month drop of 17.0%. With a TV series premiering this fall, even the top slot on the soon-to-be-doomed list won’t kill him just yet. It’s magic!
2- Swamp Thing #31 holds at second with 18,249 units, dropping 1.1%, and tumbles 13.7% for a six month period. These are small drops, meaning the series may be finding a new level.
3- Batwoman #31 slips 3.9% to 18,463 copies. That’s a six month drop of 29.0%. Slipping faster... but maybe not yet so bad it couldn’t be saved.
4- Catwoman #31 teeters just above the 20,000 mark with 20,144 copies. That’s a monthly loss of 3.9% and six month loss of 31.6%. It’s interesting to note that the 31st issue of the previous series was 4,000 units higher back in 2004.
5- Worlds’ Finest #23 sits at 21,118 units, dropping 1.7%, but only 3.7% over six months. Slamming the brakes hard as it finally finds its level.
6- Red Hood & The Outlaws #31 slips to 21,257 copies, dropping 2.1% for the month, and 30.6% for six months. Still there, not yet ready to die.
Meanwhile, back at Marvel:
1- The new New Warriors title crashes into the list, blasting its way right to the top with #4 with 19,900 copies. Single month drop of 13.9%, and a three-month drop of 43.5%. DOOMED!
2- Savage Wolverine takes a sudden tumble into second place. (I think this is due more to some sudden vacancies opening up in the list than anything else.) #18 sold 21,599 copies and #19 sold 21,144 copies; those are respective drops of 3.4% and 2.1%, and a six-month fall of 28.9%.
3- Nova #17 rockets into third with 21,652 units, a drop of 1.7% and a six-month fall of 33.8%. An appearance in the GOTG movie might help... is it too late to arrange?
4- Thunderbolts #26 slips a notch, moving 21,771 units, dropping 1.5% and 17.9% for six months.
5- All-New Invaders slips into the list with issue #5 (not a good sign), down 4.7% to 21,843 units. Six-month drop of 40.0% Hanging in there.
6- Miracleman returns to the list with issue #6 after selling 20,598 units. An 8.0% drop and an overall five-month fall of 39.4%.
Superior Foes Of Spider-Man makes no appearance – perhaps it skipped this month?
Iron Patriot is ending with #5; unknown if it was cancelled or relabeled as a limited series after the fact.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
That book is a gem.
I got a big chuckle out of that preview page. Cover artwork was the perfect match.
Should we start laying bets how long this "gem" holds on? I'm shocked to say, but I'm thinking it just might make it to the 20s!
New Warriors has turned into a very fun read. It's too bad that the first issue wasn't that great.
All-New Invaders is a really good read too and the art is amazing. Plus, any book that uses Aarkus deserves to be read by everyone.
SWAMP THING's great! Probably the smartest title being put out at the Big Two right now. Every issue is a meaty read filled with content. (Somewhere in there, there's a joke about "meaty" and a talking plant.) You've got a great supporting cast full of well fleshed-out NEW CHARACTERS, and you've got old concepts being used in new ways that AREN'T just retreads of the Alan Moore run.
I really hope the series is finally finding its new level, because it's wonderful!
Those days are here, but everything costs so much that comics and such often fall by the wayside. Granted, I have far more responsibilities, but I was able to buy comics, CDs, food, alcohol, go to films and concerts, all while living in a dorm and working a student job for just a few hours a week. Today, that small salary wouldn't cover even one of those things to any substantial degree.
First, a look at the brighter side: DC edged Marvel out of the Top Ten slots by taking five, but there’s some unusual stuff going on concerning the variants – this month begins a new practice for DC where they now make the variants to order rather than ship them by ratio of the vendor’s order. That’s caused some unexpected bumps in sales for the titles involved:
1 Batman #32 130,077 - jumps up 19.2% in sales
4 Harley Quinn #7 93,266 - up by 49.3%
5 Superman #32 89,140 - up a whopping 119.9%!!
8 Justice League #31
10 Detective Comics #32 72,988 - up by 33.9%
Justice League is a month behind, so this issue wasn’t part of the new variant change. Superman begins the new storyline drawn by John Romita Jr, so it’s difficult to tell how much of the sales increase is attributed to that and how much is attributed to the variant, but obviously both together gave it a good kick upwards. Batman continues to hang high above the 100,000 mark. And the creative team on Harley Quinn must be ecstatic, rocketing into the Top Ten at all. And note that there's three Bat-books sitting in the top ten. (Plus, he's also a Justice Leaguer.) Has the Bat done this well since the days of the TV show?
Marvel takes four slots, still riding high on Spider-Man’s return, and hitting big with rampant sins.
2 Amazing Spider-Man #3 109,029
3 Original Sin #3 93,351
6 Original Sin #4 88,508
7 Amazing Spider-Man #1.2 86,315
All dropping in sales, but still firmly sitting at the top; Amazing Spider-Man is still topping above 100,000. Whatever else you might say, what they're doing seems to be working. Spider-Man should return every day.
And now, the disclaimer: I'm only noting the mainstream DC and Marvel titles here -- no Digital Firsts, Vertigo, Max, Johnny DC or Ultimates since most of these fall under different rules of sales, distribution and cancellation.
DC’s bottom-most six changes slightly; I wouldn’t be surprised if Batwoman and Catwoman escaped by benefit of their variants. Although these DC books are at the bottom of the pile, they are all still well above the dreaded 10,000 mark where DC generally will cancel a title, so, while weak, they aren’t necessarily in danger of vanishing just yet.
1- Constantine #15 maintains a death-grip at the top spot with 16,704 copies, falling another 4.1% in sales this month and 25.4% over six months.
2- Swamp Thing #32 still at second with 18,483 units, actually climbing upwards a tick by 1.3%, the only title on the list to do so, but still sliding 8.7% over a six month period. Overall, I’d say the book has found it’s level and may stick – we might see a lot of other titles slide down past it in the next few months.
3- Worlds’ Finest #24 may have also found its level, slipping a mere 1.0% (20,900 copies), and a surprising six month drop of only 0.7%. The brakes are not only on, but seem to be slamming quite hard. A good sign, despite moving two slots up, especially while holding above the 20,000 mark.
4- Supergirl #32 enters the list for the first time with 22,481 copies. That’s still well above any serious cancellation level, and, like the two books above it, seems to be finding a level as well. One month loss of 1.3% and six month loss of 0.7%. Maybe the Red Lantern storyline is finding a new audience for Kara.
5- Aquaman & The Others #3 also enters the list for the first time with 23,109 units. Not an auspicious place for a brand new title, but, as noted, the numbers aren’t yet anywhere near disastrous. Still, three issues in and the book drops 11.8% in one month and 67.9% since the first issue -- well, that’s not healthy.
6- Green Lantern: The New Guardians #32 works its way onto the list with sales of 23,142 -- a drop of 3.1% and a six-month loss of 24.1%. Still safely above cancellation, but… could the Blackest Night be approaching?
The Marvel lists:
1- The Superior Foes Of Spider-Man (#12) return to the list to reclaim the #1 position, selling only 17,826 copies. Single issue drop of 1.7%, and a six-month drop of 16.6%. Why this book isn’t yet cancelled, I can’t say, other than some angel in the offices is watching over it.
2- New Warriors #6 continues to challenge for the top slot, selling 18,156 units, dropping 2.3% for the month and 39.7% since the first issue. STILL DOOMED!
3- Miracleman #7 now falls below the magic cancellation number of 20,000 with sales of 19,123 copies, falling 7.2% since the previous issue and 36.6% since the first issue. If it weren’t for the trouble Marvel went through to get this series, I’d declare it DOOMED as well -- but I think they’ll play it out for a long while yet.
4- Savage Wolverine #20 hangs by a clawtip just above the cancellation mark (but he’s dead now anyway, isn’t he?) by moving 20,725 units. That’s a small tumble of only 2.0%, but a six-month slide of 24.6%.
5- Secret Avengers sneaks onto the list with issue #4 (really not a good sign), down 6.7% to 21,335 units. Six-month drop of 7.9%. Some re-assembly may be required.
6- Thunderbolts remains in this slot with #27, moving 21,778 units, managing the impressive task of making no noticeable move upwards or downwards this month. That’s a monthly move of 0% for those who love numbers, though the six-month stretch is still showing a 12.7% slide.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Dave Carter and Jason Enright for The Beat.
and not to sound like a broken record... but if I could only get my hands on one Marvel comic a month, I would pick The Superior Foes of Spider-Man.
It defies all logic that this book is still going, and I love it. We all know that this title will end any minute, so I'll take what I can get.
BTW: I sold my original Miracleman issues at HeroesCon & offset my con expenses!