Candidates For The Cancellation Calvacade

Chuck_Melville

No, nothing's been announced just yet. This is a speculation based on the most recent sales figures posted.

The next few DC books most likely to be cancelled are:

Arrow - 10,017 (losing 500 units per issue)
Stormwatch - 13,049 (in freefall; losing between 500 - 1000 units a month; recent bump up, but not enough.)
Batwing - 13,302 (in freefall; losing between 500 - 1000 units a month; recent bump up, but not enough.)
Katana - 14,804 (four issues in, has dropped 45% of its sales)
Justice League Of America's Vibe - 14,970 (four issues in, has dropped 45% of its sales)
Smallville: Season 11 - 15,442 (losing 500 units per issue)
Batman Beyond Unlimited - 15,822
All-Star Western - 16,184 (averaging a loss of 4 to 5 percent sales each month)

I picked the lowest New52 titles, plus the three Digital First comics that are in the same range. Batman Beyond Unlimited is already cancelled to make way for the new Batman Beyond Universe, which will likely see a resurgence of sales for awhile, courtesy of a new #1 issue. Considering that 10,000 units is where DC likes to draw the line, several of these are in imminent danger of being cut.

The next five Marvel books most likely to be cancelled are:

Venom - 21,591 (losing 500 units per issue)
Astonishing X-Men - 24,121 (in freefall; losing approx 1000 units a month; recent bump up, but not enough.)
Scarlet Spider - 24,288 (Low, but holding steady.)
Fearless Defenders - 20,657 (sinking very fast; four issues in with a drop of 61.5% of initial sales)
X-Men Legacy - 25048 (in freefall - after 11 issues, has lost 71% of its initial sales)

Marvel holds the bar a little higher, looking at a cancellation if the title drops below 20,000 units. Fearless Defenders had a recent Age Of Ultron crossover issue with a bump up to just under 25,000 copies, but don't expect that to hold when it returns to the regular storyline.

Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Marc-Oliver Frisch and Paul O'Brien for The Beat.

comicsbeat.com/marvel-month-to-month-sales-may-2013-x-men-break-the-quiet/

comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-may-2013-viva-el-vertigo/

LibraryBoy

I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?

Chuck_Melville

LibraryBoy said:

I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?

Yeah, I haven't seen the numbers posted anywhere for the digital sales.

My expectations are that the low sales of the print copies probably won't affect continued publication of the digital copies, but could possibly result in a cancellation of the print version, leaving them as digital only.

Torchsong

DC: The only one of those I was reading was All-Star Western and even then that was in trade. I'm not sure they could have milked the idea and further, anyhow. Either way, the trades should enjoy a healthy re-reading life on my shelf.

MarveL: The only book of those I was picking up was Fearless Estroge...I mean Fearless Defenders, which was a really good book I double-dipped on to get the trade. Looks like they might eke out a second one and then call it a day.

I've gone back to where I was a few years ago - eschewing single issues unless you're an indie company (and by indie I mean you can't afford even a 2-page advert in the Previews catalog). If your book is good enough to be traded, chances are it will be. Then I'll pick it up.

Yes I'm well aware if nobody buys the singles there's not going to be a trade. Don't confuse the issue with cold hard facts! :)

RedRight88

I doubt that they'll cancel Batwing given that it is one of the last solo titles (if not the last) for a minority character that DC has.

Yeah, admittedly I get a lot of this info from the Mayo Report

Mr_Cosmic

I've been reading Arrow since J.L. took over but this is the last month I'll be buying it. I had high hopes...unfortunately it's a lousy story.

Chuck_Melville

RedRight88 said:

I doubt that they'll cancel Batwing given that it is one of the last solo titles (if not the last) for a minority character that DC has.

I was enjoying it while it was still the African Batman -- when they got rid of him and replaced him with Lucius Fox's son, I lost all my interest. It was no longer an African Batman, but a black Batman working in Africa. That might still work, but I liked the other guy better.

Chuck_Melville

Mr_Cosmic said:

I've been reading Arrow since J.L. took over but this is the last month I'll be buying it. I had high hopes...unfortunately it's a lousy story.

I think you're talking about the main Green Arrow title -- the one on the 'soon to be doomed' list is Arrow, the book based on the TV show.

Chuck_Melville

And no sooner do I speak, when DC announces that Arrow is cancelled.

comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=46500

Of course, they do note that the book may return in the fall when the show's second season begins.

Mr_Cosmic

Chuck_Melville said:

Mr_Cosmic said:

I've been reading Arrow since J.L. took over but this is the last month I'll be buying it. I had high hopes...unfortunately it's a lousy story.

I think you're talking about the main Green Arrow title -- the one on the 'soon to be doomed' list is Arrow, the book based on the TV show.

Ah yes..I had a brain fart.

CaptShazam

And after those, based on June numbers, in the DC comics cancellation on deck circle in the next year or so would be:

Suicide Squad - est 22,907
Talon - est 21,755
Superboy - est 20,952
Birds of Prey - est 20,767

fredzilla

I don't mean to perpetuate the collector-speculator mentality, but these numbers got me thinking about what my comics may be worth some day? Sure, whatever you're selling is only worth what others are willing to pay for it, but these books' print runs are much smaller than print runs from previous decades. I did a quick Google search to find out how many Amazing Fantasy #15 comics were printed, and this post on CBR had initial runs at about 500,000. Again, I understand the special-ness of this particular issue vs. the ho-hum-ness of many of the titles listed above, but I wonder what some of these books will be worth someday? Say, 70 years from now when many of the other physical copies have been converted into paper mache sculptures, making my copies even more rare? I think we've seen some of this with early issues of some recent Image books (Walking Dead, Chew, etc.) and what they've gone for on places like eBay.

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it just got me thinking and I wondered what everyone else thought? Just when I was thinking of liquidating many of my this-will-never-be-worth-anything-and-I'm-never-going-to-read-it-again-so-why-do-I-still-have-them-? books in my collection...

SolitaireRose

I'm pretty sure they have already announced Astonishing X-Men is ending soon.

I look at the numbers for some of IDW's tie-in titles and wonder how they are still in print. True Blood HAS to cost some money and is only selling 4500 copies?

As for what will be worth money, I was SURE that the mainstream Marvel stuff from 1997 - 2001 would be worth a lot since Spider-Man was only selling around 75000 (and so on), but with digital? Back issues aren't in demand unless they are from pre-1975 and I don't know as there will be people clamoring for Byrne's Spider-Man run, let alone the modern stuff.

Krescan

Only getting two of those on the list, Batman Beyond in trades and Fearless Defenders. Was going to quit Fearless because I wanted to cut some stuff out but since it looks like the complete story is almost done I might as well stick with it till the end. Then pick up whatever new Misty Knight story they decide to try next.

LibraryBoy

Only one of these I'm following monthly is Fearless Defenders, which I'm enjoying but kinda figured from the start it probably wouldn't be long for the world, so I'll enjoy the ride while it lasts.

I've been reading All Star Western in trades, and although I like it well-enough, I enjoyed the previous Jonah Hex run a bit more, seeing as it was actually a Western and not a cowboy running around in Eastern U.S. cities (though admittedly the Nighthawk & Cinnamon arc was pretty fun... let's see them get a mini-series!). It'll be a bummer if that goes, but between that and the previous series, that was a significantly longer run than I ever expected Jonah Hex books would get from DC in this day and age.

Read the first Smallville: Season 11 trade and really, really enjoyed it (which was surprising because I never cared for the show that much, but that right there is the power of Write Fu as possessed by Bryan Q. Miller), so I'll probably continue along with it that format, at least for a little while. I'm hoping that the "digital first" thing gives it a nice buffer from cancellation for a while.

Chuck_Melville

Time for an update. Who's on the wheel of doom this month?

Our DC candidates for possible cancellation are...

Stormwatch -- lost another 5.9% in sales, down to 12,277 copies. Top of the deathwatch list now.
Batwing -- dropped 6.5% to 12,437 copies.
Katana -- The 5th issue lost another 12.2%, down to 12,998 copies. Not very healthy.
Justice League of America's Vibe -- dropped 8.4% in sales, down to 13,706.
Green Team -- The second issue fell 48.4% from it's first issue, down to 14,238 copies! That is not a good sign for a new title! (It's sister title, The Movement, also took a big drop from it's first issue, down by 38.5%; it just misses hitting the short list here, but at that rate could be here very, very soon.)
All-Star Western -- lost 2.5% in sales, down to 15,788 copies. Not as bad as the others and is in a slower decline, but has already dropped below 20,000; hanging in there by a thread.

Most of the DC titles are bleeding units, and there's not much to be cheered by, though it should be noted that a lot of these are mid-listers or better so that there's no real hurt going on there, but it should also be noted that all of the Lantern titles, Red Lanterns especially, took big jumps upwards this month, no doubt due to the change in writers (and, some say, more likely due to the plastic ring giveaway being made available again)... and Batman was the only other title to actually climb upwards by a whopping ten percent!! (Not that it was ever in any real danger of losing sales...)

Now... for the Marvels:

Wolverine: Max -- sinking fast, lost 5.4% to drop to 17,247 copies. Which still puts it ahead of the six worst DC titles above.
X-Men -- only a small climb upwards of .6% to 19,421 copies.
Captain Marvel -- got a big boost, thanks to the ongoing crossover with Avengers Assemble, and will probably see more of the same with Infinity, and actually climbed by 1.1%, up to 19,673 copies. The crossovers will keep it alive, but can it survive without them?
Fearless Defenders -- had a big boost from the Age Of Ultron, but lost it afterwards, dropping 19.3% to 20,168.
Venom -- a small drop. 1.4% down to 21,288 copies.
Scarlet Spider -- lost 6.3% in sales, down to 22,766 copies. Probably not in great danger yet, but needs to slow that fall.

Like DC, there a lot of titles at Marvel that are just bleeding units -- however, for Hawkeye fans there's good news: while only a midlister, it's sales are strong and healthy, and it's even managing to slowly -- oh, so slowly -- climb up the charts. That's more than a lot of the rest of the line can say.

Torchsong

I wanted to support Green Team and Movement as they were, God Forbid, trying to bring in something new (or at least not heard of in some time) to the mix. Green Team was okay, but not great. Movement was actually quite good, but I couldn't see it lasting. All-Star Western will be missed when it goes.

On the Marvel side - not surprised to see the estrogen experiment didn't really pay off with Defenders and X-Men. Although I loved Defenders. Here's to hoping it'll stick around. While I dig Captain Marvel's direction and the new threads, I didn't support it like I probably should have.

This Year Zero thing they're doing with Batman has been really good. Not too surprised about the uptick there.

LibraryBoy

Captain Marvel has a large, energetic, and vocal online following, too (particularly on Tumblr, where a virtual "CarolCon" was held a few weekends back), and, like Hawkguy, seems to be reaching a lot of people that most other "traditional" superhero books aren't (if the testimonials I've read are any indication). It will be interesting to see how the Carol Corps reacts if/when it faces cancellation threats. This book could very well be the next Spider-Girl in that respect. And I hope it does last, because it's one of my favorite books out there right now.

Chuck_Melville

Frankly, I think Captain Marvel is on life support right now, and the only thing keeping it from a quick death is the crossovers. The vocal and critical support will likely help keep it alive for a awhile as well. In spite of it's #3 slot on the Wheel Of Doom, I expect it will be sticking around for awhile. We'll see where things stand in about six months from now.

I'm surprised that Age Of Ultron crossover for Fearless Defenders did so well -- it had nothing to do with the ongoing stories in either title, but was a stand-alone episode that took place in the restructured future -- and didn't seem to have any of the regular characters (Avengers or Defenders). It certainly wasn't a very good crossover, had nothing to contribute to the event, and I don't know that it really helped to introduce readers to the Fearless Defenders series or characters. It's a mystery to me.

Greg

LibraryBoy said:

Captain Marvel has a large, energetic, and vocal online following, too (particularly on Tumblr, where a virtual "CarolCon" was held a few weekends back), and, like Hawkguy, seems to be reaching a lot of people that most other "traditional" superhero books aren't (if the testimonials I've read are any indication). It will be interesting to see how the Carol Corps reacts if/when it faces cancellation threats. This book could very well be the next Spider-Girl in that respect. And I hope it does last, because it's one of my favorite books out there right now.

You beat me to it. There is also a Carol Corps podcast.

LibraryBoy

Chuck_Melville said:

I'm surprised that Age Of Ultron crossover for Fearless Defenders did so well -- it had nothing to do with the ongoing stories in either title, but was a stand-alone episode that took place in the restructured future -- and didn't seem to have any of the regular characters (Avengers or Defenders). It certainly wasn't a very good crossover, had nothing to contribute to the event, and I don't know that it really helped to introduce readers to the Fearless Defenders series or characters. It's a mystery to me.

It had quite a bit to do with the rest of the Fearless Defenders story so far, actually... at least for one recurring character anyway. It dropped in a whole lot of backstory for her (the only hint I'll give... not that it helps much with this book ;) ) in a way that didn't interrupt the flow of the story in the regular book at all. Pretty clever use of the tie-in, I thought!

LibraryBoy

Greg said:

LibraryBoy said:

Captain Marvel has a large, energetic, and vocal online following, too (particularly on Tumblr, where a virtual "CarolCon" was held a few weekends back), and, like Hawkguy, seems to be reaching a lot of people that most other "traditional" superhero books aren't (if the testimonials I've read are any indication). It will be interesting to see how the Carol Corps reacts if/when it faces cancellation threats. This book could very well be the next Spider-Girl in that respect. And I hope it does last, because it's one of my favorite books out there right now.

You beat me to it. There is also a Carol Corps podcast.

I forgot about that! Thanks for reminding me, I had been meaning to check it out.

Chuck_Melville

LibraryBoy said:

Chuck_Melville said:

I'm surprised that Age Of Ultron crossover for Fearless Defenders did so well -- it had nothing to do with the ongoing stories in either title, but was a stand-alone episode that took place in the restructured future -- and didn't seem to have any of the regular characters (Avengers or Defenders). It certainly wasn't a very good crossover, had nothing to contribute to the event, and I don't know that it really helped to introduce readers to the Fearless Defenders series or characters. It's a mystery to me.

It had quite a bit to do with the rest of the Fearless Defenders story so far, actually... at least for one recurring character anyway. It dropped in a whole lot of backstory for her (the only hint I'll give... not that it helps much with this book ;) ) in a way that didn't interrupt the flow of the story in the regular book at all. Pretty clever use of the tie-in, I thought!

Did it really!? Okay. I couldn't tell, since I wasn't reading Fearless Defenders. I was completely lost.

luke52

Vibe. More people need to be reading this book, i'd hate to see this go. This has been a way more entertaining read then his parent book JLA. In Vibe they have made an underdog character a hero in more ways then one. Vibe was seen as somewhat of a joke pre-new52, but he's been transformed into a hero you can be proud of. He's been transformed into an everyman dropped I to a bad situation and fighting for good and more importantly what's right. If you haven't been reading this book you should give it a go. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.

Should probably copy and paste this into the 'what's the best comic no one talks about' thread too...

Mr_Cosmic

luke52 said:

Vibe. More people need to be reading this book, i'd hate to see this go. This has been a way more entertaining read then his parent book JLA. In Vibe they have made an underdog character a hero in more ways then one. Vibe was seen as somewhat of a joke pre-new52, but he's been transformed into a hero you can be proud of. He's been transformed into an everyman dropped I to a bad situation and fighting for good and more importantly what's right. If you haven't been reading this book you should give it a go. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.

Should probably copy and paste this into the 'what's the best comic no one talks about' thread too...

I enjoyed the first few issues. I just couldn't justify keeping it on my list.

LibraryBoy

Chuck_Melville said:

LibraryBoy said:

Chuck_Melville said:

I'm surprised that Age Of Ultron crossover for Fearless Defenders did so well -- it had nothing to do with the ongoing stories in either title, but was a stand-alone episode that took place in the restructured future -- and didn't seem to have any of the regular characters (Avengers or Defenders). It certainly wasn't a very good crossover, had nothing to contribute to the event, and I don't know that it really helped to introduce readers to the Fearless Defenders series or characters. It's a mystery to me.

It had quite a bit to do with the rest of the Fearless Defenders story so far, actually... at least for one recurring character anyway. It dropped in a whole lot of backstory for her (the only hint I'll give... not that it helps much with this book ;) ) in a way that didn't interrupt the flow of the story in the regular book at all. Pretty clever use of the tie-in, I thought!

Did it really!? Okay. I couldn't tell, since I wasn't reading Fearless Defenders. I was completely lost.

I picked it up even though I wasn't reading Age of Ultron at all and wondered how/why/if it connected, and then when I hit the part that did, it was a big "What... oh. OH!!" moment.

luke52

Mr_Cosmic said:

luke52 said:

Vibe. More people need to be reading this book, i'd hate to see this go. This has been a way more entertaining read then his parent book JLA. In Vibe they have made an underdog character a hero in more ways then one. Vibe was seen as somewhat of a joke pre-new52, but he's been transformed into a hero you can be proud of. He's been transformed into an everyman dropped I to a bad situation and fighting for good and more importantly what's right. If you haven't been reading this book you should give it a go. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised.

Should probably copy and paste this into the 'what's the best comic no one talks about' thread too...

I enjoyed the first few issues. I just couldn't justify keeping it on my list.

If you ever find yourself with a bit of cash left over from your budget, I'd highly recommend picking up some back issues. This is one that I really didn't think I'd like as much as I do.

Chuck_Melville

LibraryBoy said:

Chuck_Melville said:

LibraryBoy said:

Chuck_Melville said:

I'm surprised that Age Of Ultron crossover for Fearless Defenders did so well -- it had nothing to do with the ongoing stories in either title, but was a stand-alone episode that took place in the restructured future -- and didn't seem to have any of the regular characters (Avengers or Defenders). It certainly wasn't a very good crossover, had nothing to contribute to the event, and I don't know that it really helped to introduce readers to the Fearless Defenders series or characters. It's a mystery to me.

It had quite a bit to do with the rest of the Fearless Defenders story so far, actually... at least for one recurring character anyway. It dropped in a whole lot of backstory for her (the only hint I'll give... not that it helps much with this book ;) ) in a way that didn't interrupt the flow of the story in the regular book at all. Pretty clever use of the tie-in, I thought!

Did it really!? Okay. I couldn't tell, since I wasn't reading Fearless Defenders. I was completely lost.

I picked it up even though I wasn't reading Age of Ultron at all and wondered how/why/if it connected, and then when I hit the part that did, it was a big "What... oh. OH!!" moment.

I only picked it up because of AOU, and I still couldn't see how it connected with the story at all, except that it took place within the restructured timeline. I wrote it off as just another 'red sky' story.

Chuck_Melville

Hmm. I'd neglected to mention that another of DC's books is doing quite well, and, in fact, is actually increasing sales with each issue, is the game-based Injustice: Gods Among Us. It's down the list -- actually a kind of lower-midlister -- but is a steady climber.

Matt

Chuck_Melville said:

Time for an update. Who's on the wheel of doom this month?

Our DC candidates for possible cancellation are...

Stormwatch -- lost another 5.9% in sales, down to 12,277 copies. Top of the deathwatch list now.
Batwing -- dropped 6.5% to 12,437 copies.
Katana -- The 5th issue lost another 12.2%, down to 12,998 copies. Not very healthy.
Justice League of America's Vibe -- dropped 8.4% in sales, down to 13,706.
Green Team -- The second issue fell 48.4% from it's first issue, down to 14,238 copies! That is not a good sign for a new title! (It's sister title, The Movement, also took a big drop from it's first issue, down by 38.5%; it just misses hitting the short list here, but at that rate could be here very, very soon.)
All-Star Western -- lost 2.5% in sales, down to 15,788 copies. Not as bad as the others and is in a slower decline, but has already dropped below 20,000; hanging in there by a thread.

Most of the DC titles are bleeding units, and there's not much to be cheered by, though it should be noted that a lot of these are mid-listers or better so that there's no real hurt going on there, but it should also be noted that all of the Lantern titles, Red Lanterns especially, took big jumps upwards this month, no doubt due to the change in writers (and, some say, more likely due to the plastic ring giveaway being made available again)... and Batman was the only other title to actually climb upwards by a whopping ten percent!! (Not that it was ever in any real danger of losing sales...)

Now... for the Marvels:

Wolverine: Max -- sinking fast, lost 5.4% to drop to 17,247 copies. Which still puts it ahead of the six worst DC titles above.
X-Men -- only a small climb upwards of .6% to 19,421 copies.
Captain Marvel -- got a big boost, thanks to the ongoing crossover with Avengers Assemble, and will probably see more of the same with Infinity, and actually climbed by 1.1%, up to 19,673 copies. The crossovers will keep it alive, but can it survive without them?
Fearless Defenders -- had a big boost from the Age Of Ultron, but lost it afterwards, dropping 19.3% to 20,168.
Venom -- a small drop. 1.4% down to 21,288 copies.
Scarlet Spider -- lost 6.3% in sales, down to 22,766 copies. Probably not in great danger yet, but needs to slow that fall.

Like DC, there a lot of titles at Marvel that are just bleeding units -- however, for Hawkeye fans there's good news: while only a midlister, it's sales are strong and healthy, and it's even managing to slowly -- oh, so slowly -- climb up the charts. That's more than a lot of the rest of the line can say.

I see rebranding/relaunching of titles with names like: Batman & the Green Machine, Batman' Justice League's Vibe, and not BATMAN, but Batwing.

M

Matt

Torchsong said:

This Year Zero thing they're doing with Batman has been really good. Not too surprised about the uptick there.

I find it interest that 2 of Snyder's current storylines riffs off highly regarded storylines by OTHER writers (Death in the Family & Year One). Maybe in the n52, those stories didnt exist.

M