I love his work for all the reasons Mr. Nigel Weathington the Third said. JRJR tells a story well with art, even if he makes Hulk's face look like a green version of Cap. I also like Kirby and 90% of his faces look exactly the same. The thing is they can both tell a story with thier art and not just 22 pages of stiff beautifully drawn posters.
You can call me Nige, you twhitt. :D
Okay, not my best pun ever. You get what you pay for.
I'm glad you liked it :D I always come up with new "professor" versions of your name in my brain everytime I read your posts. I probably need to see someone about that, but hey it just means I enjoy your lessons in comics.
He wasn’t doing full pencils in the early ’80s. JR didn’t start doing full pencils until his run on Daredevil with Ann Nocenti, which he started working on in late 1987. His style started to change toward the very end of his Spider-Man run just before going over to X-Men
Yep. I think I remember him talking about this in the Sidebar interview (or maybe I read it somewhere else). For quite a while he was relying on inkers to sort of fix things up or whatever, but he started getting more freedom -- or rising to the challenge of doing more of the heavy lifting -- around the time he went over to X-Men. That Spider-Man cover you cited certainly looks like a turning point to me. That's not to say that his earlier pencilling jobs "weren't really him" or whatever. But he was almost by definition doing "house style". I think it worked well, and I think that what came directly afterwards with his first X-Men run is my personal favorite JRJR run. It's a perfect mix of his personal style (before he threatened to take it "too far") and "classic Marvel".
As for the Kirby comparisons: I can definitely see that the blockiness and bombast of JRJR's later style overlaps a great deal with '70s Kirby. (I think it's important to point out that it's really only Kirby's '70s style that we're talking about here. It isn't like JRJR produces work similar to Golden or Silver Age Kirby!) This similar is intentional and JRJR acknowledges it. But in some way I think JRJR gets similar Kirby-like effects even though he comes from a different place than Kirby was at home in, if that makes sense. At heart, he doesn't have the Kirby sensibility but can do things on the page that emulate it.
Really nothing they can do I can think of that would draw me back to superman. Nothing short of flying around the earth to reverse time. As long as they keep moving forward with their new directives, no creative teams or such is gonna make a difference for me. In general though I'm still a fan of johns, and although I don't love jrjr I can tolerate it if the story/character is strong.
I'll buy it -- in good times & bad times even when Azzarello is writing Superman (UGH!). After reading Daredevil, I'm eager to see what he can do w/ Superman. Johns is a talented writer on Superman so bring on the fun.
Really nothing they can do I can think of that would draw me back to superman. Nothing short of flying around the earth to reverse time. As long as they keep moving forward with their new directives, no creative teams or such is gonna make a difference for me. In general though I'm still a fan of johns, and although I don't love jrjr I can tolerate it if the story/character is strong.
I agree to a point. I mean, a new 52 Superman book written by Gaiman or Moore would get my money. :)
So it looks like about 38% of the people in this thread are fans of JRjr's art and/or looking forward to his Superman run.
And then there is @JamieD, who seemed neither here nor there.
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When did I chime in?, I love JRJR and will definately pick this up, if I stay for the writing is another thing, Johns since he took the reins as a High Grand Pubah of DC has been hit or miss so it will remain to be seen if I stick with it so put me on the excited column
And then there is @JamieD, who seemed neither here nor there.
When did I chime in? I love JRJR and will definitely pick this up, if I stay for the writing is another thing, Johns since he took the reins as a High Grand Pubah of DC has been hit or miss so it will remain to be seen if I stick with it so put me on the excited column
One more to tip the scales for JRJr/Johns upcoming Supes run... for now
And when you chimed in earlier in this thread, you didn't give us an opinion on it either way, so thanks for remedying that @JamieD
I think it's interesting that JR Jr. is doing something over at DC. Here's a guy who has worked for Marvel his entire career except for a mini-series at Image a long time ago, whose father was in management when he broke in, and is someone who has an amazing track record in terms of both sales and professionalism. He was a "hot artist" during the early 90's, and still turned in work on time and followed through on assignments.
He's over at DC now, on their flagship character and...well, DC has not done well with "creator driven" series, since Jim Lee's Superman book is already canceled (what???!!!???).
Is it wrong for me to hope that this is the start of a resurgence of creators being the selling point at DC instead of the old 90's Marvel "The character is what sells, who does it is irrelevant" mentality?
Is it wrong for me to hope that this is the start of a resurgence of creators being the selling point at DC instead of the old 90's Marvel "The character is what sells, who does it is irrelevant" mentality?
And then there is @JamieD, who seemed neither here nor there.
When did I chime in? I love JRJR and will definitely pick this up, if I stay for the writing is another thing, Johns since he took the reins as a High Grand Pubah of DC has been hit or miss so it will remain to be seen if I stick with it so put me on the excited column
One more to tip the scales for JRJr/Johns upcoming Supes run... for now
And when you chimed in earlier in this thread, you didn't give us an opinion on it either way, so thanks for remedying that @JamieD
I think it's interesting that JR Jr. is doing something over at DC. Here's a guy who has worked for Marvel his entire career except for a mini-series at Image a long time ago, whose father was in management when he broke in, and is someone who has an amazing track record in terms of both sales and professionalism. He was a "hot artist" during the early 90's, and still turned in work on time and followed through on assignments.
He's over at DC now, on their flagship character and...well, DC has not done well with "creator driven" series, since Jim Lee's Superman book is already canceled (what???!!!???).
Is it wrong for me to hope that this is the start of a resurgence of creators being the selling point at DC instead of the old 90's Marvel "The character is what sells, who does it is irrelevant" mentality?
That would make me happy as well, though I really dislike the idea of JRJR being any part of the benchmark for the return to creator as selling point and probably means that it's time for me to either turn in my keys and card or accept the fact that I have very little in common with the mainstream.
I've been thinking more about this and trying to reconcile my disdain with the other artists that I really have enjoyed:
Kevin O'Neill - loved his work on Marshal Law - definitely not a traditional style and many of the characters are very blocky - still his layouts are very dynamic
Dan Brereton - continue to love his work - again, a very non-traditional style. Layouts are frequently more posed due to photo referencing, but still feel exciting to me.
Jack Kirby - love the exaggerated perspective and the combination of hyper and hypo detailing.
Cam Kennedy - fun combination of lanky and boxy all at once.
Carlos Ezquerra - see Cam Kennedy above
Matteo Scalara (Black Science and Dead Body Road) - his style between the two titles seems very different, but that could be the colors on Black Science. Regardless, definitely has a bit of a caricatured feel to it.
Riley Rossmo - Not sure how describe what it is that appeals there, but I like it.
Among others - so it's not that non-mainstream styles or caricatured figures are what's triggering the visceral reaction.
Really nothing they can do I can think of that would draw me back to superman. Nothing short of flying around the earth to reverse time. As long as they keep moving forward with their new directives, no creative teams or such is gonna make a difference for me. In general though I'm still a fan of johns, and although I don't love jrjr I can tolerate it if the story/character is strong.
I agree to a point. I mean, a new 52 Superman book written by Gaiman or Moore would get my money. :)
If editorial allowed them to write and draw a superman I recognized and liked. Sure. Sadly, stereo instructions written by gaiman would still just be stereo instructions.
Really nothing they can do I can think of that would draw me back to superman. Nothing short of flying around the earth to reverse time. As long as they keep moving forward with their new directives, no creative teams or such is gonna make a difference for me. In general though I'm still a fan of johns, and although I don't love jrjr I can tolerate it if the story/character is strong.
I agree to a point. I mean, a new 52 Superman book written by Gaiman or Moore would get my money. :)
If editorial allowed them to write and draw a superman I recognized and liked. Sure. Sadly, stereo instructions written by gaiman would still just be stereo instructions.
Stereo instructions that opened a gate to Hell, where everyone had to assemble stereos for higher levels of hell for eternity, but still got all the legally required breaks and benefits, because this is Hell, not Walmart.
In what way is this superior artwork to the classically derided Liefeld Captain America? That anatomy is hellish and the entire thing is just a couple of baby animals away from being a David Hasselhoff inspired nighmare.
In what way is this superior artwork to the classically derided Liefeld Captain America? That anatomy is hellish and the entire thing is just a couple of baby animals away from being a David Hasselhoff inspired nighmare.
This particular piece? Nothing. It's terrible. But it's also a pin-up, incredibly ill-advised at that. Not JRJr's strongest suit.
Romita is at his best when he's telling a story, moving the camera around and depicting a sequence of events.
In what way is this superior artwork to the classically derided Liefeld Captain America? That anatomy is hellish and the entire thing is just a couple of baby animals away from being a David Hasselhoff inspired nighmare.
It was also for the Swimsuit Special, or something like that. Pinups in magazine format of superheroes in swimsuits. I think the especially exaggerated anatomy of this pinup should be seen in that tongue and cheek context.
As opposed to the context of in-story sequential art that is supposed to be taken more seriously, in the case of the infamous Liefeld Cap.
We should start a worst and best panels thread sometime. I think the Fury Stark bikini pin up should kick it off nicely.
How about we start a Best Storytelling page instead? I think it would be far more interesting to see what people think makes for good storytelling. A Worst and Best Panels thread would just boil down to who draws the prettiest pin-ups.
And @David_D, excuse it or not, I bet we could find plenty of great panels/pin-ups from the swimsuit page that wouldn't be as embarrassing as that one.
bet we could find plenty of great panels/pin-ups from the swimsuit page that wouldn't be as embarrassing as that one.
@Peter I can pull quotes all day long from these boards that would prove that you're mistaken about me "thriving on negativity", but if you wish to be derisive and childish, who am I to stop you?
Comments
Okay, not my best pun ever. You get what you pay for.
I always come up with new "professor" versions of your name in my brain everytime I read your posts. I probably need to see someone about that, but hey it just means I enjoy your lessons in comics.
(I thought the Nigel one was pretty good)
As for the Kirby comparisons: I can definitely see that the blockiness and bombast of JRJR's later style overlaps a great deal with '70s Kirby. (I think it's important to point out that it's really only Kirby's '70s style that we're talking about here. It isn't like JRJR produces work similar to Golden or Silver Age Kirby!) This similar is intentional and JRJR acknowledges it. But in some way I think JRJR gets similar Kirby-like effects even though he comes from a different place than Kirby was at home in, if that makes sense. At heart, he doesn't have the Kirby sensibility but can do things on the page that emulate it.
Here's that Sidebar interview, btw: http://www.sidebarnation.com/my_weblog/2013/04/podcast-episode-2xx-john-romita-jr.html
Some things cannot be "unseen".
In general though I'm still a fan of johns, and although I don't love jrjr I can tolerate it if the story/character is strong.
Matthew
And when you chimed in earlier in this thread, you didn't give us an opinion on it either way, so thanks for remedying that @JamieD
He's over at DC now, on their flagship character and...well, DC has not done well with "creator driven" series, since Jim Lee's Superman book is already canceled (what???!!!???).
Is it wrong for me to hope that this is the start of a resurgence of creators being the selling point at DC instead of the old 90's Marvel "The character is what sells, who does it is irrelevant" mentality?
Unlikely? Yep.
I've been thinking more about this and trying to reconcile my disdain with the other artists that I really have enjoyed:
Kevin O'Neill - loved his work on Marshal Law - definitely not a traditional style and many of the characters are very blocky - still his layouts are very dynamic
Dan Brereton - continue to love his work - again, a very non-traditional style. Layouts are frequently more posed due to photo referencing, but still feel exciting to me.
Jack Kirby - love the exaggerated perspective and the combination of hyper and hypo detailing.
Cam Kennedy - fun combination of lanky and boxy all at once.
Carlos Ezquerra - see Cam Kennedy above
Matteo Scalara (Black Science and Dead Body Road) - his style between the two titles seems very different, but that could be the colors on Black Science. Regardless, definitely has a bit of a caricatured feel to it.
Riley Rossmo - Not sure how describe what it is that appeals there, but I like it.
Among others - so it's not that non-mainstream styles or caricatured figures are what's triggering the visceral reaction.
An obvious Photo Reference of
This particular piece? Nothing. It's terrible. But it's also a pin-up, incredibly ill-advised at that. Not JRJr's strongest suit.
Romita is at his best when he's telling a story, moving the camera around and depicting a sequence of events.
As opposed to the context of in-story sequential art that is supposed to be taken more seriously, in the case of the infamous Liefeld Cap.
And @David_D, excuse it or not, I bet we could find plenty of great panels/pin-ups from the swimsuit page that wouldn't be as embarrassing as that one.
-winky face- -laughing face- -whistling I didn't do it face-
[now where is the 'don't be a prick' emoticon?]