It was also for the Swimsuit Special, or something like that. Pinups in magazine format of superheroes in swimsuits. I think the especially exaggerated anatomy of this pinup should be seen in that tongue and cheek context.
Yeah. This was supposed to be funny.
AND IT IS!
Come on: "Matching Shoulder Holster By JRJR"? Funny!
Come on: "Matching Shoulder Holster By JRJR"? Funny!
"Supposed to be funny" ≠"funny"
Actually it was the "dead eyes" expressions and his line work that I thought was bad. If this is JRJr's attempt at funny, then who am I to criticize? No one took the book seriously to begin with and you can see that JRJr didn't either.
Actually it was the "dead eyes" expressions and his line work that I thought was bad. If this is JRJr's attempt at funny, then who am I to criticize? No one took the book seriously to begin with and you can see that JRJr didn't either.
It was a frikkin' SWIMSUIT SPECIAL!
It wasn't meant to be taken seriously!
But JRJR clearly put a lot of work into it: look at all the body hair! That's an insane amount of effort.
And the composition is really very nice. He's got nothing to be ashamed of here.
I get your point, it was a swim suit special, but even though this image of Bishop is inviting mockery, I think the artwork is far more superior. I like the line work and the rendering. Even the eyes don't seem "dead" here.
Now HERE is an example of JRJr work from the same special that I think works perfectly. I don't hate ALL of Romita Jr's work. I just don't usually like it.
This is nice though... very symmetrical, though the men all look like the exact same build. And there's that messy line work I don't care for, but it's JRJr's style. And I like She Hulk.
I get your point, it was a swim suit special, but even though this image of Bishop is inviting mockery, I think the artwork is far more superior. I like the line work and the rendering. Even the eyes don't seem "dead" here.
See, I think that's hideous. And that it has none of the fun or the interesting composition of Romita's piece.
Instead of the cartoonish exaggeration of Romita, this is just a bad attempt at grotesque "realism".
In what way is this superior artwork to the classically derided Liefeld Captain America? That anatomy is hellish and the entire thing is just a couple of baby animals away from being a David Hasselhoff inspired nighmare.
It was also for the Swimsuit Special, or something like that. Pinups in magazine format of superheroes in swimsuits. I think the especially exaggerated anatomy of this pinup should be seen in that tongue and cheek context.
As opposed to the context of in-story sequential art that is supposed to be taken more seriously, in the case of the infamous Liefeld Cap.
I'm going to respectifully disagree on a couple of points.
First - I'd like to stipulate that Liefeld treated every panel as a pin-up and avoided sequential art in favor or providing a series of pinups that just happen to go in a certain order so as to approximate a story.
Second - one would think that, assuming that one didn't have to go to all of the work required to translate the story to a series of visual images that describe sequential action would actually be less labor intensive and potentially provide for more opportunity to focus on things like anatomy - I get the exaggerating perspective on Fury, and the fact that super-hero anatomy is inherently exaggerated, but the shelf-like pecs are straight out of that Liefeld Cap image and the severe muscle atrophy evident in Stark's left thigh (look at how it sizes up compared to the right thigh behind it), to say nothing of the relationship of Stark's shoulders and head make for nothing but badness.
Third - My gods man! The fingers!
Is the argument intended to suggest that an artist that puts together dynamic sequential compositions using nothing but stick figures is on par with an artist that does highly detailed/rendered be they stylized or not figure drawings with a more limited ability for dynamic sequentials? ie. JRJR in comparison to an Alex Ross / Dan Brereton / Greg Land / Jim Lee?
Now HERE is an example of JRJr work from the same special that I think works perfectly. I don't hate ALL of Romita Jr's work. I just don't usually like it.
This is nice though... very symmetrical, though the men all look like the exact same build. And there's that messy line work I don't care for, but it's JRJr's style. And I like She Hulk.
I would agree - this is probably one of the better single panel images that I've seen from JRJR.
JRJR in comparison to an Alex Ross / Dan Brereton / Greg Land / Jim Lee?
You're citing Greg "Pornface" Land as a positive example?
Seriously?
I'll take the dynamism of Romita over the PhotoShopped flatness of Land anytime anywhere.
I'm not a fan of Land, but I know that some people are. I was using Land more as an example of a photo referenced, detailed figure style. Sort of a linework version of the same technique used by Ross and Brereton to what is, in my opinion, a far diminished effect.
JRJR in comparison to an Alex Ross / Dan Brereton / Greg Land / Jim Lee?
You're citing Greg "Pornface" Land as a positive example?
Seriously?
I'll take the dynamism of Romita over the PhotoShopped flatness of Land anytime anywhere.
I'm not a fan of Land, but I know that some people are. I was using Land more as an example of a photo referenced, detailed figure style. Sort of a linework version of the same technique used by Ross and Brereton to what is, in my opinion, a far diminished effect.
OK. *whew*. I was worried about you! :D
Seriously, though, with the exception of Ross' groundbreaking work, I find photo-reference, highly detailed work stiff and boring. I like my comics more comic-y, more cartoony, more abstract. Artists like Darwyn Cooke, Mike Allred and JRJR have a level of abstraction to their work that has far more life to it.
Personally I find Romita's work a bit too busy, but I'd rather see him on a book than, say, Jim Lee, any time.
JRJR in comparison to an Alex Ross / Dan Brereton / Greg Land / Jim Lee?
You're citing Greg "Pornface" Land as a positive example?
Seriously?
I'll take the dynamism of Romita over the PhotoShopped flatness of Land anytime anywhere.
I'm not a fan of Land, but I know that some people are. I was using Land more as an example of a photo referenced, detailed figure style. Sort of a linework version of the same technique used by Ross and Brereton to what is, in my opinion, a far diminished effect.
OK. *whew*. I was worried about you! :D
Seriously, though, with the exception of Ross' groundbreaking work, I find photo-reference, highly detailed work stiff and boring. I like my comics more comic-y, more cartoony, more abstract. Artists like Darwyn Cooke, Mike Allred and JRJR have a level of abstraction to their work that has far more life to it.
Personally I find Romita's work a bit too busy, but I'd rather see him on a book than, say, Jim Lee, any time.
Thanks for the explanation. I mostly agree, though I'm not a fan of Allred (I don't have a visceral reaction to his work, and he was the perfect selection for the Metamorpho strip in Wednesday Comics). However, I'd take Lee's heavily posed work to JRJR's seven days a week. Same with Portacio, for instance.
JRJR in comparison to an Alex Ross / Dan Brereton / Greg Land / Jim Lee?
You're citing Greg "Pornface" Land as a positive example?
Seriously?
I'll take the dynamism of Romita over the PhotoShopped flatness of Land anytime anywhere.
I'm not a fan of Land, but I know that some people are. I was using Land more as an example of a photo referenced, detailed figure style. Sort of a linework version of the same technique used by Ross and Brereton to what is, in my opinion, a far diminished effect.
OK. *whew*. I was worried about you! :D
Seriously, though, with the exception of Ross' groundbreaking work, I find photo-reference, highly detailed work stiff and boring. I like my comics more comic-y, more cartoony, more abstract. Artists like Darwyn Cooke, Mike Allred and JRJR have a level of abstraction to their work that has far more life to it.
Personally I find Romita's work a bit too busy, but I'd rather see him on a book than, say, Jim Lee, any time.
Photo reference is fine. I like Paul Gulacy's work most of the time (albeit his stuff can be stiff), John Bolton is sorely missed and there are some others I can't think of off the top of my head. But when you just trace a photo and call it art...meh.
So, how about JR Jr. on Superman? And Geoff Johns writing it? Think we might get a few stories where Superman looks and acts like a grownup?
The latest Big Batman thing (Zero Year) has pretty much knocked me off of those books...so for the first time since 1980, I'm not reading anything from DC proper. It's weird.
So, how about JR Jr. on Superman? And Geoff Johns writing it? Think we might get a few stories where Superman looks and acts like a grownup?
Sadly, Geoff Johns' name on a book makes it an automatic miss for me at this point.
I have wasted the last dollar I'm gonna waste on his stuff.
thats unfortunate. there was a time when Johns was a sure thing. His Avengers stuff was good and his GL run was great until it ran into the ground. I think that was a case of overstaying your welcome. i hate that he now detracts from a book rather than adds. then again it could be that we geeks are a fickle bunch. We can be quick to flip from adoration to disdain and sometimes back again.
The latest Big Batman thing (Zero Year) has pretty much knocked me off of those books...so for the first time since 1980, I'm not reading anything from DC proper. It's weird.
I didn't read the main event, but ran up against Year Zero in a couple of the titles that I do read (Batwoman and Green Lantern Corps) and, aside from the fact that they resulted in the main story arc getting delayed for the month, I found the stories to be interesting and appreciated the attempt to place so many characters in context with one another.
So, how about JR Jr. on Superman? And Geoff Johns writing it? Think we might get a few stories where Superman looks and acts like a grownup?
Sadly, Geoff Johns' name on a book makes it an automatic miss for me at this point.
I have wasted the last dollar I'm gonna waste on his stuff.
thats unfortunate. there was a time when Johns was a sure thing. His Avengers stuff was good and his GL run was great until it ran into the ground. I think that was a case of overstaying your welcome. i hate that he now detracts from a book rather than adds. then again it could be that we geeks are a fickle bunch. We can be quick to flip from adoration to disdain and sometimes back again.
Fickle is such an ugly word. (Actually, it's pretty cute.)
I liked Johns' work when he was one writer among many.
Since he's been able to do whatever he wants (post-Sinestro War essentially), and his vision has been driving the DCU, I have gone from disenchanted to downright contemptuous.
All I saw was some preview pages. As usual, Lee's art had no appeal to me.
Were you ever a Lee fan? The reason I ask is I was recently rereading a Jim Lee X-Men Visionaries tpb and found myself becoming a bit bored with Lee's style. I was originally a Mark Silvestri fan, and initially thought Lee was aping Mark S's style when he hit the scene - but I liked it. I also liked Whilce Portacio's work a lot as well as Art Adams, for what it's worth. For a while I also liked Todd McFarlane, but I can only take him in small doses now.
Having said that, I wonder if you were EVER a fan of Lee's style and just no longer like it or did you always dislike it?
I'm more pro about Johns than anti. I find his work generally enjoyable to read. He's a pretty decent writer. I really like JRJR. So I'm in.
I have a question though (not trollbaiting). Is your switch in opinion on Johns because over the last 7-8 years he has been writing so many titles at DC and you've gotten tired of his style/ideas bc they are everywhere and not novel anymore? or Do you think it's significantly dropped off in quality? or Is it some combo of both?
I feel like John's and Bendis are in similiar positions bc we've been flooded with them for the better part of a decade. I'm not sure they've dropped off significantly, as much as we want to read a different voice.
All I saw was some preview pages. As usual, Lee's art had no appeal to me.
Were you ever a Lee fan? The reason I ask is I was recently rereading a Jim Lee X-Men Visionaries tpb and found myself becoming a bit bored with Lee's style. I was originally a Mark Silvestri fan, and initially thought Lee was aping Mark S's style when he hit the scene - but I liked it. I also liked Whilce Portacio's work a lot as well as Art Adams, for what it's worth. For a while I also liked Todd McFarlane, but I can only take him in small doses now.
Having said that, I wonder if you were EVER a fan of Lee's style and just no longer like it or did you always dislike it?
I never was.
When he first broke out, I considered his work a pale imitation of Brian Stelfreeze's stuff.
I still think Stelfreeze is fifty times the artist Lee is.
DC Comics has now officially confirmed that writer and DC Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns and long-time Marvel artist John Romita Jr. will take up the reins of the core eponymous Superman title sometime "this summer."The pairing will add a boost of star power to DC's Superman line-up with Scott Snyder and Jim Lee's Superman Unchained ending with issue #9 (solicited for April).
Johns is still arguably one of the top 2 or 3 creative draws in the industry and DC's resident kingmaker of high-profile titles.In an interview with IGN, the creative team talked about taking over the title together. While not getting into too many story specifics, Johns did reveal that the introduction of a new character will be a factor in their run, and it will “kind of reset Superman and his universe in the New 52,” said Johns.
Are they saying Superman Unchained ends with issue #9 or that SS & JL's run ends with issue #9? I can't really tell...
I'm more pro about Johns than anti. I find his work generally enjoyable to read. He's a pretty decent writer. I really like JRJR. So I'm in.
I have a question though (not trollbaiting). Is your switch in opinion on Johns because over the last 7-8 years he has been writing so many titles at DC and you've gotten tired of his style/ideas bc they are everywhere and not novel anymore? or Do you think it's significantly dropped off in quality? or Is it some combo of both?
I feel like John's and Bendis are in similiar positions bc we've been flooded with them for the better part of a decade. I'm not sure they've dropped off significantly, as much as we want to read a different voice.
there couold definately be some truth to that. i also agree with @wetrats "one voice among many" comment. i think you are both right on target.
I have a question though (not trollbaiting). Is your switch in opinion on Johns because over the last 7-8 years he has been writing so many titles at DC and you've gotten tired of his style/ideas bc they are everywhere and not novel anymore? or Do you think it's significantly dropped off in quality? or Is it some combo of both?
Both, and the fact that nobody is really in a position to tell him "no" anymore.
Comments
AND IT IS!
Come on: "Matching Shoulder Holster By JRJR"? Funny!
Actually it was the "dead eyes" expressions and his line work that I thought was bad. If this is JRJr's attempt at funny, then who am I to criticize? No one took the book seriously to begin with and you can see that JRJr didn't either.
It wasn't meant to be taken seriously!
But JRJR clearly put a lot of work into it: look at all the body hair! That's an insane amount of effort.
And the composition is really very nice. He's got nothing to be ashamed of here.
Re: Dead eyes: Have you seen many modeling shots?
This is nice though... very symmetrical, though the men all look like the exact same build. And there's that messy line work I don't care for, but it's JRJr's style. And I like She Hulk.
Instead of the cartoonish exaggeration of Romita, this is just a bad attempt at grotesque "realism".
First - I'd like to stipulate that Liefeld treated every panel as a pin-up and avoided sequential art in favor or providing a series of pinups that just happen to go in a certain order so as to approximate a story.
Second - one would think that, assuming that one didn't have to go to all of the work required to translate the story to a series of visual images that describe sequential action would actually be less labor intensive and potentially provide for more opportunity to focus on things like anatomy - I get the exaggerating perspective on Fury, and the fact that super-hero anatomy is inherently exaggerated, but the shelf-like pecs are straight out of that Liefeld Cap image and the severe muscle atrophy evident in Stark's left thigh (look at how it sizes up compared to the right thigh behind it), to say nothing of the relationship of Stark's shoulders and head make for nothing but badness.
Third - My gods man! The fingers!
Is the argument intended to suggest that an artist that puts together dynamic sequential compositions using nothing but stick figures is on par with an artist that does highly detailed/rendered be they stylized or not figure drawings with a more limited ability for dynamic sequentials? ie. JRJR in comparison to an Alex Ross / Dan Brereton / Greg Land / Jim Lee?
Seriously?
I'll take the dynamism of Romita over the PhotoShopped flatness of Land anytime anywhere.
Seriously, though, with the exception of Ross' groundbreaking work, I find photo-reference, highly detailed work stiff and boring. I like my comics more comic-y, more cartoony, more abstract. Artists like Darwyn Cooke, Mike Allred and JRJR have a level of abstraction to their work that has far more life to it.
Personally I find Romita's work a bit too busy, but I'd rather see him on a book than, say, Jim Lee, any time.
So, how about JR Jr. on Superman? And Geoff Johns writing it? Think we might get a few stories where Superman looks and acts like a grownup?
I have wasted the last dollar I'm gonna waste on his stuff.
I liked Johns' work when he was one writer among many.
Since he's been able to do whatever he wants (post-Sinestro War essentially), and his vision has been driving the DCU, I have gone from disenchanted to downright contemptuous.
Having said that, I wonder if you were EVER a fan of Lee's style and just no longer like it or did you always dislike it?
I have a question though (not trollbaiting). Is your switch in opinion on Johns because over the last 7-8 years he has been writing so many titles at DC and you've gotten tired of his style/ideas bc they are everywhere and not novel anymore?
or Do you think it's significantly dropped off in quality?
or Is it some combo of both?
I feel like John's and Bendis are in similiar positions bc we've been flooded with them for the better part of a decade. I'm not sure they've dropped off significantly, as much as we want to read a different voice.
When he first broke out, I considered his work a pale imitation of Brian Stelfreeze's stuff.
I still think Stelfreeze is fifty times the artist Lee is.
I wonder if this new book by JRJr and GJ is going to replace Superman Unchained?
Dead.
Kaput.
Finito.