What I really liked is seeing a young Bruce Wayne and seeing that he already feels like he has the persona of a man that will become Batman. And seeing that transformation is cool because I don't think we've seen much of what Bruce was like right after his parents where murdered.
One of the things I didn't really love about the Nolan Batman is he never really felt like Batman to me. People that say the Nolan Batman is a "Dark" Batman I disagree with I think he's a realistic Batman not a "Dark" one. And I feel like with the little we saw of young Bruce in Gotham he already feels much more like a "Dark" Batman compared to the Nolan one which I liked.
That's actually one of the reasons I'm not interested. I recall the dread & awesomeness generated when Darth Vader first walked through the hole blasted in that blockade runner. Then I saw Episode 1 of Star Wars. Now when I watch Episode IV, I think about the whiny kid on Tattoonie (somewhat from Episode II as well.)
I don't want that for Batman. Maybe a Bruce in his teens who's already set on his path, but I think there's a reason not too much was made about the post-orphan/pre-vow Bruce.
I'll say this. It was a better made pilot episode than Arrow had. I like Arrow but had to give it some time to find its footing. This probably won't change your mind if you inherently hate the premise (or you're @Matt and you hate everything) but for someone tuning in hoping to catch a fun show I think it starts off better than Arrow and may have real potential to take off. I hated the Arrow idea as soon as they said no superpowers. Well, two seasons in and we have a fully powered costumed Flash that I am happy as hell to see. I may be overly optimistic but this could be excellent. I hope it is. I want these thugs made well.
I hate everything? Who updated my character profile & didn't tell me?! Was it you, @random73?
Moi? *fails to look innocent*. I'm mostly joking but sometimes you remind me if Mikey from the Life cereal commercials. "He won't eat it, he hates everything".
Moi? *fails to look innocent*. I'm mostly joking but sometimes you remind me if Mikey from the Life cereal commercials. "He won't eat it, he hates everything".
Incorrect assessment. There are only a handful of things I'd say I "hate." Racism & white supremacy top the list, but that's in reference to another conversation on another forum.
If I "hate" something, I want it eradicated. Its generally something I've cared enough about to passionately dislike it.
I try to understand a dissenting opinion, but that doesn't mean understanding = agreeing.
Preface aside, I don't "hate" Gotham (not sure what the 'everything' you're referencing.) It just doesn't interest me. I don't want it canceled or to be eradicated. I just won't be filling the small amount of me-time with something that doesn't interest me.
Besides my lack of interest, I like not being shackled to a TV series again. That was my teens, 20s, & early 30s. Since LOST, season 10 of Smallville, & finally Burn Notice ended last year, I've been enjoying not being held hostage to TV.
What I really liked is seeing a young Bruce Wayne andalreadyseeing that he already feels like he has the persona of a man that will become Batman. And seeing that transformation is cool because I don't think we've seen much of what Bruce was like right after his parents where murdered.
One of the things I didn't really love about the Nolan Batman is he never really felt like Batman to me. People that say the Nolan Batman is a "Dark" Batman I disagree with I think he's a realistic Batman not a "Dark" one. And I feel like with the little we saw of young Bruce in Gotham he already feels much more like a "Dark" Batman compared to the Nolan one which I liked.
That's actually one of the reasons I'm not interested. I recall the dread & awesomeness generated when Darth Vader first walked through the hole blasted in that blockade runner. Then I saw Episode 1 of Star Wars. Now when I watch Episode IV, I think about the whiny kid on Tattoonie (somewhat from Episode II as well.)
I don't want that for Batman. Maybe a Bruce in his teens who's already set on his path, but I think there's a reason not too much was made about the post-orphan/pre-vow Bruce.
Don't Anakin Skywalker him!!
M
Well I agree with you about Anakin but with this Bruce at least for this one episode he doesn't feel like a whiny kid at all. He already feels like the person that will become Batman.
What I really liked is seeing a young Bruce Wayne andalreadyseeing that he already feels like he has the persona of a man that will become Batman. And seeing that transformation is cool because I don't think we've seen much of what Bruce was like right after his parents where murdered.
One of the things I didn't really love about the Nolan Batman is he never really felt like Batman to me. People that say the Nolan Batman is a "Dark" Batman I disagree with I think he's a realistic Batman not a "Dark" one. And I feel like with the little we saw of young Bruce in Gotham he already feels much more like a "Dark" Batman compared to the Nolan one which I liked.
That's actually one of the reasons I'm not interested. I recall the dread & awesomeness generated when Darth Vader first walked through the hole blasted in that blockade runner. Then I saw Episode 1 of Star Wars. Now when I watch Episode IV, I think about the whiny kid on Tattoonie (somewhat from Episode II as well.)
I don't want that for Batman. Maybe a Bruce in his teens who's already set on his path, but I think there's a reason not too much was made about the post-orphan/pre-vow Bruce.
Don't Anakin Skywalker him!!
M
Well I agree with you about Anakin but with this Bruce at least for this one episode he doesn't feel like a whiny kid at all. He already feels like the person that will become Batman.
You are correct. There's probably only a handful of things I could really describe as something I hate. I dislike reality shows, especially the Kardashians, but I don't even hate them.
As for stuff that doesn't interest me, I find it better to skip it then watch/read it & just complain about it.
That pilot is covered in flop sweat. It felt desperate, despite being Batman-less, to show us all the Batman. It sold us Easter Eggs by the dozen (to mix a metaphor).
But I get that. Pilots are often like guys on a first date trying way too hard, you know what I mean?
Bottom line- I will give it a few more chances. That is more than I did after the pilot of Agents of SHIELD, or virtually anything else I have seen from a non-cable network since, I don't know, probably Lost.
I watched it with my wife, who keeps an eye on the trades in ways that I don't, and she thought she remembered reading that in the first season of Gotham they have gone through three DPs and several casting directors. Now, that can be a bad sign, but it can also be a sign of a production that is not settling for less, and is willing to make changes to find its way. And I think they got a weird first season order. Like 16 episodes or something? And that is also unusual. But the 20+ episode seasons that traditional networks do is a bar for entry for me. So less is better.
So I will give it some time, too, because what is sort of a Gotham Central series, shot at least partially in NYC, is something I should be able to like. But there is a lot to improve--
It is actually the look of the show that needs the most work. I mean, we have seen the killing of the Waynes so many times, and Bruce on his knees next to them with the blood and pearls, to the point that it is like a modern classical image. It is sort of the Pieta of superhero origin moments. And so I am amazed that this show could make that sequence so dull and flat. It took this well known and widely interpreted sequence and made it as mundane as a cold open from Law & Order.
A lot of the pilot just felt like it was shot wrong. So much of what is enduring in Batman, and why it translates so well to so many media, is that there is a complete aesthetic to him, and Gotham. From comics to films to great looking video games, Batman fans have seen a lot of really moody, design-y, great looking images of Gotham. And I do think that can even be done on a TV budget, you just need a great DP, and let them take risks. Let them go for close-ups, and for darkness. Hell. Darkness is cheap.
But so many of the scenes felt like they were using the master shots rather than the close ups. And so many of the sets felt like SETS. The alleys, including Crime Alley, seemed enormous. And clean. Looked like the alleys they always shoot in Canada when they are pretending NYC. The police station felt like a set that should have been a church. Gordon and Kean's apartment felt like it was a really rich person's apartment in a skyscraper. A lot of the production design, and how it was shot, just felt wrong. Hopefully that changes.
Gordon is boring. Hopefully the writing for him gets better. The casting for Barbara is all wrong, and their chemistry is terrible.
Even though it is based in other than the real world, they could do with buttoning-up the writing to make the cop characters feel like they are working real police jobs. They could use a dose of what Homicide: Life on the Street or The Wire had when it came to making you feel what it was like to actually be a detective. To be under that pressure and scrutiny. To be trying to find the truth and do the right thing up against a big, bureaucratic, and often political system. To put it in Homicide: LOTS terms, the killing of the Waynes is the red ball to end all red balls. And you just didn't feel that in this. Also it felt like BS that they kept calling Pepper's death 'we shot an innocent man'. Rubbish. Sure, he was framed for the Waynes, but in the middle of the interview, he ran, and SHOT AT YOU WITH THE GUN IN HIS HAND UNDER THE TABLE. And then later tried to stab you, too. And that is why he was shot dead by the police. Doesn't matter that he didn't kill the Waynes.
I really like Donal Logue. I feel like he (and the writers) are still finding Bullock. But I think they will get there. I actually like the casting for all the villains. They could use better writing to serve them. But hopefully when they are not at the breakneck, flash-and-cash, LOOK EVERYBODY IT'S ALL THE BATMAN VILLAINS!!! pace is slowed down they will get better. I also love John Doman (The Wire) as Falcone. And that scene, including even how it was shot, was one of the best in the whole show.
Also speaking of The Wire, having Michael Kostroff (the mastermind crooked lawyer Levy from The Wire) as a uniform officer was some of the strangest casting I've seen in awhile. I mean, kudos for them to have the taste to hire actors from the Wire, the few left that Walking Dead is not using, but Kostroff as a uniform cop just felt like a weird irony, or a Halloween costume or something. Anyway...
So, I will give it a few more. Soon there will be that much more competition for what little TV time I have, coming from much better channels. But I want a show like this to work. So, we'll see.
I understand that Gotham may not be for everyone, but I truly did find this pilot episode to be better than any single Agents of Shield episode. Clark Gregg lacks any charisma and the other lead characters are totally bland. I wanted to like Agents of Shield. but find it lacking. I hope Gotham doesn't let me down as well.
I really like what I see so far. Pilots always try too hard but this still gave me a lot to look forward to. It was much better than the Arrow pilot, which was Starling City 90210.
Also I disagree with @David_D , I don't want the show to feel like a real life police drama. Keep the characters grounded but this is a comic book show and I want it to feel like one.
I really like what I see so far. Pilots always try too hard but this still gave me a lot to look forward to. It was much better than the Arrow pilot, which was Starling City 90210.
Also I disagree with @David_D , I don't want the show to feel like a real life police drama. Keep the characters grounded but this is a comic book show and I want it to feel like one.
Gotham Central was a comic book, and they could have a story where Mr. Freeze was the criminal, but the actual procedures and department felt like what real police work would be even in a city that can get chaotic and dangerous in otherworldly ways. Personally, I want that. Because I think it helps the stakes seem bigger. And I have seen a great example of it being done before.
I'm not saying that they have to have an episode about the GCPD pension plan. But they could not make it seem like they are dumbing it down on purpose.
I think it is always better to talk up to your audience. Not down.
Come to think of it, Law and Order: GCPD could be really cool.
It could deal with how the presence of supervillains and costumed vigilantes effect the justice system.
That I'd watch!
I would prefer itf it WAS Law and Order: Gotham. Again, its a TV show, and they don't want Batman to be the center. Fine. No reason a once or twice appearance couldn't be a thing. The villains could be their full on adult selves for the longterm story of the show, but the standalone episodes could be just bad criminals.
A lot of the pilot just felt like it was shot wrong. So much of what is enduring in Batman, and why it translates so well to so many media, is that there is a complete aesthetic to him, and Gotham. From comics to films to great looking video games, Batman fans have seen a lot of really moody, design-y, great looking images of Gotham. And I do think that can even be done on a TV budget, you just need a great DP, and let them take risks. Let them go for close-ups, and for darkness. Hell. Darkness is cheap.
But so many of the scenes felt like they were using the master shots rather than the close ups. And so many of the sets felt like SETS. The alleys, including Crime Alley, seemed enormous. And clean. Looked like the alleys they always shoot in Canada when they are pretending NYC. The police station felt like a set that should have been a church. Gordon and Kean's apartment felt like it was a really rich person's apartment in a skyscraper. A lot of the production design, and how it was shot, just felt wrong. Hopefully that changes.
Gordon is boring. Hopefully the writing for him gets better. The casting for Barbara is all wrong, and their chemistry is terrible.
Even though it is based in other than the real world, they could do with buttoning-up the writing to make the cop characters feel like they are working real police jobs. They could use a dose of what Homicide: Life on the Street or The Wire had when it came to making you feel what it was like to actually be a detective. To be under that pressure and scrutiny. To be trying to find the truth and do the right thing up against a big, bureaucratic, and often political system. To put it in Homicide: LOTS terms, the killing of the Waynes is the red ball to end all red balls. And you just didn't feel that in this. Also it felt like BS that they kept calling Pepper's death 'we shot an innocent man'. Rubbish. Sure, he was framed for the Waynes, but in the middle of the interview, he ran, and SHOT AT YOU WITH THE GUN IN HIS HAND UNDER THE TABLE. And then later tried to stab you, too. And that is why he was shot dead by the police. Doesn't matter that he didn't kill the Waynes.
It was shot like every other generic crime drama. I know these things have a tighter budget, but how much more would it cost to set your cameras up at interesting angles, or take another hour to tweak the lighting? It all just felt like "Everyone stand here, aim the lights, and then we'll shoot." This type of show cries out for interesting visuals, and I'm surprised the director and cinematographer didn't take the opportunity to be more daring.
And typically the pilots seem to have the most impressive visuals, because they're trying to sell the show. If anything, I expect later episodes to not even look this good.
I'm assuming Gordon's fiancee is an heiress, and that's why they have such an upscale apartment? It makes Gordon a much less relatable character, in my opinion, when he goes home to a penthouse with gorgeous view and drinks wine with a fiancee that looks like a professional model. Why are these two even together?
And that "innocent man" nonsense drove me nuts, too. They didn't go to his apartment to gun him down for the murder of the Waynes. It wouldn't have mattered if he was a jaywalker, or if they were collecting door to door donations for the GCPD food drive, they approached a guy and he pulled a gun on them. Trying to generate suspense over them possibly going to jail for that is ridiculous.
Like I posted earlier, I'm giving it a few episodes, but as time passes before the next one, I'm finding myself less excited for the next one. It just didn't stick with me, and all I'm remembering are the things that annoyed me.
A lot of the pilot just felt like it was shot wrong. So much of what is enduring in Batman, and why it translates so well to so many media, is that there is a complete aesthetic to him, and Gotham. From comics to films to great looking video games, Batman fans have seen a lot of really moody, design-y, great looking images of Gotham. And I do think that can even be done on a TV budget, you just need a great DP, and let them take risks. Let them go for close-ups, and for darkness. Hell. Darkness is cheap.
But so many of the scenes felt like they were using the master shots rather than the close ups. And so many of the sets felt like SETS. The alleys, including Crime Alley, seemed enormous. And clean. Looked like the alleys they always shoot in Canada when they are pretending NYC. The police station felt like a set that should have been a church. Gordon and Kean's apartment felt like it was a really rich person's apartment in a skyscraper. A lot of the production design, and how it was shot, just felt wrong. Hopefully that changes.
Gordon is boring. Hopefully the writing for him gets better. The casting for Barbara is all wrong, and their chemistry is terrible.
Even though it is based in other than the real world, they could do with buttoning-up the writing to make the cop characters feel like they are working real police jobs. They could use a dose of what Homicide: Life on the Street or The Wire had when it came to making you feel what it was like to actually be a detective. To be under that pressure and scrutiny. To be trying to find the truth and do the right thing up against a big, bureaucratic, and often political system. To put it in Homicide: LOTS terms, the killing of the Waynes is the red ball to end all red balls. And you just didn't feel that in this. Also it felt like BS that they kept calling Pepper's death 'we shot an innocent man'. Rubbish. Sure, he was framed for the Waynes, but in the middle of the interview, he ran, and SHOT AT YOU WITH THE GUN IN HIS HAND UNDER THE TABLE. And then later tried to stab you, too. And that is why he was shot dead by the police. Doesn't matter that he didn't kill the Waynes.
It was shot like every other generic crime drama. I know these things have a tighter budget, but how much more would it cost to set your cameras up at interesting angles, or take another hour to tweak the lighting? It all just felt like "Everyone stand here, aim the lights, and then we'll shoot." This type of show cries out for interesting visuals, and I'm surprised the director and cinematographer didn't take the opportunity to be more daring.
And typically the pilots seem to have the most impressive visuals, because they're trying to sell the show. If anything, I expect later episodes to not even look this good.
I'm assuming Gordon's fiancee is an heiress, and that's why they have such an upscale apartment? It makes Gordon a much less relatable character, in my opinion, when he goes home to a penthouse with gorgeous view and drinks wine with a fiancee that looks like a professional model. Why are these two even together?
And that "innocent man" nonsense drove me nuts, too. They didn't go to his apartment to gun him down for the murder of the Waynes. It wouldn't have mattered if he was a jaywalker, or if they were collecting door to door donations for the GCPD food drive, they approached a guy and he pulled a gun on them. Trying to generate suspense over them possibly going to jail for that is ridiculous.
Like I posted earlier, I'm giving it a few episodes, but as time passes before the next one, I'm finding myself less excited for the next one. It just didn't stick with me, and all I'm remembering are the things that annoyed me.
Agreed on all counts.
As far as the look of the show, I have seen better looking, and more cinematic, shows made by smaller production companies for smaller channels, and therefore for what must have been less money than a Warner Brothers Television show for Fox. My concern is that the issue here wasn't cost, but rather that they WANTED the show to look more like network TV, and more like other generic crime dramas. Maybe more appealing to a general audience. And I think that is a misstep. Hopefully they get braver later.
And sometimes pilots look that much better, not only for what is spent, but because sometimes the pilot is directed by someone more exciting than TV usually gets. Like having producer/director Martin Scorcese directing the pilot of Boardwalk Empire, or David Fincher directing the pilot of Game of Cards, J.J. Abrams directing the pilot of Lost, etc. The pilot director is usually also the director/producer who helps cast the leads, hire the designers, etc. Sometimes you can get someone who can bring an interesting edge or experience to what you are doing, that helps staff the show, and set the look for the show, for success.
I didn't know Danny Cannon from his prior work, but looking at his IMDB I see a solid TV career making nothing I was ever interested in watching. Maybe part of the problem with the pilot is that, if it looks too much like CSI, it is because the pilot director has directed almost 30 episodes of CSI. And that WBTV/Fox wanted it that way.
And that "innocent man" nonsense drove me nuts, too. They didn't go to his apartment to gun him down for the murder of the Waynes. It wouldn't have mattered if he was a jaywalker, or if they were collecting door to door donations for the GCPD food drive, they approached a guy and he pulled a gun on them. Trying to generate suspense over them possibly going to jail for that is ridiculous.
this is what i was coming to comment about, he attacked a police officer with a knife and the officer was in no way able to protect himself so his partner shot him in defense, the reasoning they came up with was ridiculous
It was ok? I don't like Fish, but Penguin seems like a good actor so far. And besides not knowing procedure Donal Logue is top notch
The first episode has a lot of promise. The hardest thing for me was to just basically dump everything I expect from the series out of my brain before I sit down to watch it.
IE:
This would be perfect if it just used Gotham Central as a blueprint, and Gordon was already the top cop, and Batman was already on the streets.
or
Just do a Young Bruce Wayne series and focus on him, forget Gordon and Bullock.
Leaving that all behind I did like the first episode. My sister really really liked it, but I think that just goes to show you the target audience isn't us diehard comic fans. She likes the lead from Southland, but she also picked up on all of the future Gotham Rogues too.
Sometimes it's mind blowing to watch something, enjoy the hell out of it, and then find out the general consensus is negative.
I'm with you. I loved it. Was really surprised by the reviews from the folks on this thread.
Hey man, you like what you like. I think part of being a geek is not having to defend your entertainment of choice. We don't all like the same stuff and that's okay. I don't know yet if I'm completely onboard with Gotham yet but I think it's off to a good start.
Sometimes it's mind blowing to watch something, enjoy the hell out of it, and then find out the general consensus is negative.
I agree with @random73 -- you should like what you like, and don't worry whether it is the norm or not. It it wasn't divisive, then it wouldn't be entertainment*!
*And that is double-plus true for geeky entertainment.
Episode 2 was good but definitely miss titled since Selina was only it for like 10 minutes. But for the parts she was in was pretty good the actress is doing a good job so far. And I also think she kinda looks like a young Michelle Pfeiffer from Batman Returns.
Bruce was still good and so was Gordon and Penguin was also great again I can't wait to see when he either shoots Fish Mooney with his Umbrella or spears her with it. Because after all Penguin's do eat fish which is why I think they named her that.
But spoilers if you don't watch the next episode trailer.
What I was afraid of when they hinted at Montoya and Barbara being lovers is going to come true. There going to use at as a CW drama for the sake of being drama nonsense which I hate. This series does not need that kind of crap make it gritty and about a corrupt city not love triangles b.s..
Comments
I don't want that for Batman. Maybe a Bruce in his teens who's already set on his path, but I think there's a reason not too much was made about the post-orphan/pre-vow Bruce.
Don't Anakin Skywalker him!!
M
M
If I "hate" something, I want it eradicated. Its generally something I've cared enough about to passionately dislike it.
I try to understand a dissenting opinion, but that doesn't mean understanding = agreeing.
Preface aside, I don't "hate" Gotham (not sure what the 'everything' you're referencing.) It just doesn't interest me. I don't want it canceled or to be eradicated. I just won't be filling the small amount of me-time with something that doesn't interest me.
Besides my lack of interest, I like not being shackled to a TV series again. That was my teens, 20s, & early 30s. Since LOST, season 10 of Smallville, & finally Burn Notice ended last year, I've been enjoying not being held hostage to TV.
M
They can introduce multiple red herrings and such, but I don't want to see *Joker*.
M
If he did, would he have dedicated years of his life to a podcast celebrating comics?
I'd even go so far as to say there's very little that he hates.
He just doesn't waste a lot of time on stuff that doesn't interest him.
@Matt, feel free to tell me how wrong I am. :D
As for stuff that doesn't interest me, I find it better to skip it then watch/read it & just complain about it.
M
That pilot is covered in flop sweat. It felt desperate, despite being Batman-less, to show us all the Batman. It sold us Easter Eggs by the dozen (to mix a metaphor).
But I get that. Pilots are often like guys on a first date trying way too hard, you know what I mean?
Bottom line- I will give it a few more chances. That is more than I did after the pilot of Agents of SHIELD, or virtually anything else I have seen from a non-cable network since, I don't know, probably Lost.
I watched it with my wife, who keeps an eye on the trades in ways that I don't, and she thought she remembered reading that in the first season of Gotham they have gone through three DPs and several casting directors. Now, that can be a bad sign, but it can also be a sign of a production that is not settling for less, and is willing to make changes to find its way. And I think they got a weird first season order. Like 16 episodes or something? And that is also unusual. But the 20+ episode seasons that traditional networks do is a bar for entry for me. So less is better.
So I will give it some time, too, because what is sort of a Gotham Central series, shot at least partially in NYC, is something I should be able to like. But there is a lot to improve--
It is actually the look of the show that needs the most work. I mean, we have seen the killing of the Waynes so many times, and Bruce on his knees next to them with the blood and pearls, to the point that it is like a modern classical image. It is sort of the Pieta of superhero origin moments. And so I am amazed that this show could make that sequence so dull and flat. It took this well known and widely interpreted sequence and made it as mundane as a cold open from Law & Order.
A lot of the pilot just felt like it was shot wrong. So much of what is enduring in Batman, and why it translates so well to so many media, is that there is a complete aesthetic to him, and Gotham. From comics to films to great looking video games, Batman fans have seen a lot of really moody, design-y, great looking images of Gotham. And I do think that can even be done on a TV budget, you just need a great DP, and let them take risks. Let them go for close-ups, and for darkness. Hell. Darkness is cheap.
But so many of the scenes felt like they were using the master shots rather than the close ups. And so many of the sets felt like SETS. The alleys, including Crime Alley, seemed enormous. And clean. Looked like the alleys they always shoot in Canada when they are pretending NYC. The police station felt like a set that should have been a church. Gordon and Kean's apartment felt like it was a really rich person's apartment in a skyscraper. A lot of the production design, and how it was shot, just felt wrong. Hopefully that changes.
Gordon is boring. Hopefully the writing for him gets better. The casting for Barbara is all wrong, and their chemistry is terrible.
Even though it is based in other than the real world, they could do with buttoning-up the writing to make the cop characters feel like they are working real police jobs. They could use a dose of what Homicide: Life on the Street or The Wire had when it came to making you feel what it was like to actually be a detective. To be under that pressure and scrutiny. To be trying to find the truth and do the right thing up against a big, bureaucratic, and often political system. To put it in Homicide: LOTS terms, the killing of the Waynes is the red ball to end all red balls. And you just didn't feel that in this. Also it felt like BS that they kept calling Pepper's death 'we shot an innocent man'. Rubbish. Sure, he was framed for the Waynes, but in the middle of the interview, he ran, and SHOT AT YOU WITH THE GUN IN HIS HAND UNDER THE TABLE. And then later tried to stab you, too. And that is why he was shot dead by the police. Doesn't matter that he didn't kill the Waynes.
I really like Donal Logue. I feel like he (and the writers) are still finding Bullock. But I think they will get there. I actually like the casting for all the villains. They could use better writing to serve them. But hopefully when they are not at the breakneck, flash-and-cash, LOOK EVERYBODY IT'S ALL THE BATMAN VILLAINS!!! pace is slowed down they will get better. I also love John Doman (The Wire) as Falcone. And that scene, including even how it was shot, was one of the best in the whole show.
Also speaking of The Wire, having Michael Kostroff (the mastermind crooked lawyer Levy from The Wire) as a uniform officer was some of the strangest casting I've seen in awhile. I mean, kudos for them to have the taste to hire actors from the Wire, the few left that Walking Dead is not using, but Kostroff as a uniform cop just felt like a weird irony, or a Halloween costume or something. Anyway...
So, I will give it a few more. Soon there will be that much more competition for what little TV time I have, coming from much better channels. But I want a show like this to work. So, we'll see.
Vo.
Great line!
*slow clap*
Also I disagree with @David_D , I don't want the show to feel like a real life police drama. Keep the characters grounded but this is a comic book show and I want it to feel like one.
I'm not saying that they have to have an episode about the GCPD pension plan. But they could not make it seem like they are dumbing it down on purpose.
I think it is always better to talk up to your audience. Not down.
B-)
It could deal with how the presence of supervillains and costumed vigilantes effect the justice system.
That I'd watch!
I would prefer Homicide: Gotham.
And typically the pilots seem to have the most impressive visuals, because they're trying to sell the show. If anything, I expect later episodes to not even look this good.
I'm assuming Gordon's fiancee is an heiress, and that's why they have such an upscale apartment? It makes Gordon a much less relatable character, in my opinion, when he goes home to a penthouse with gorgeous view and drinks wine with a fiancee that looks like a professional model. Why are these two even together?
And that "innocent man" nonsense drove me nuts, too. They didn't go to his apartment to gun him down for the murder of the Waynes. It wouldn't have mattered if he was a jaywalker, or if they were collecting door to door donations for the GCPD food drive, they approached a guy and he pulled a gun on them. Trying to generate suspense over them possibly going to jail for that is ridiculous.
Like I posted earlier, I'm giving it a few episodes, but as time passes before the next one, I'm finding myself less excited for the next one. It just didn't stick with me, and all I'm remembering are the things that annoyed me.
As far as the look of the show, I have seen better looking, and more cinematic, shows made by smaller production companies for smaller channels, and therefore for what must have been less money than a Warner Brothers Television show for Fox. My concern is that the issue here wasn't cost, but rather that they WANTED the show to look more like network TV, and more like other generic crime dramas. Maybe more appealing to a general audience. And I think that is a misstep. Hopefully they get braver later.
And sometimes pilots look that much better, not only for what is spent, but because sometimes the pilot is directed by someone more exciting than TV usually gets. Like having producer/director Martin Scorcese directing the pilot of Boardwalk Empire, or David Fincher directing the pilot of Game of Cards, J.J. Abrams directing the pilot of Lost, etc. The pilot director is usually also the director/producer who helps cast the leads, hire the designers, etc. Sometimes you can get someone who can bring an interesting edge or experience to what you are doing, that helps staff the show, and set the look for the show, for success.
I didn't know Danny Cannon from his prior work, but looking at his IMDB I see a solid TV career making nothing I was ever interested in watching. Maybe part of the problem with the pilot is that, if it looks too much like CSI, it is because the pilot director has directed almost 30 episodes of CSI. And that WBTV/Fox wanted it that way.
IE:
This would be perfect if it just used Gotham Central as a blueprint, and Gordon was already the top cop, and Batman was already on the streets.
or
Just do a Young Bruce Wayne series and focus on him, forget Gordon and Bullock.
Leaving that all behind I did like the first episode. My sister really really liked it, but I think that just goes to show you the target audience isn't us diehard comic fans. She likes the lead from Southland, but she also picked up on all of the future Gotham Rogues too.
M
*And that is double-plus true for geeky entertainment.
Bruce was still good and so was Gordon and Penguin was also great again I can't wait to see when he either shoots Fish Mooney with his Umbrella or spears her with it. Because after all Penguin's do eat fish which is why I think they named her that.
But spoilers if you don't watch the next episode trailer.
What I was afraid of when they hinted at Montoya and Barbara being lovers is going to come true. There going to use at as a CW drama for the sake of being drama nonsense which I hate. This series does not need that kind of crap make it gritty and about a corrupt city not love triangles b.s..