At least to judge by the covers of the various X-books, and books featuring mutants (and the Uncanny Avengers promo even uses the "M-word", it looks like Johnston got punked on that one. (And not for the first time)
I think they got a new editor and he changed that outcome. Will provide a link if I can find one.
I'd be surprised if that was the explanation (though I wouldn't be surprised if Johnston may have try to spin it that way, though if so, the timing doesn't help his case.) Remember, the Bleeding Cool narrative was not that this was a story-driven idea, like a new direction cooked up by an editor to do something different with the X-Men for a time.
They were suggesting that, like the FF cancellation, this was part of a top-down driven campaign against the characters that are in Fox movies, that "the X-Men will be shifted into a new pocket reality after the Secret Wars event, so that the characters, whose movie and TV expression are controlled by Fox, would be divorced from interacting with other Marvel characters." So that would be something forced on the editors to do.
And it was in the middle there, when there was no X-editor, when Johnston heard from his "multiple sources" that the mutants were going to space (he posted that story May 7th)
If a Fox-hating corporate leadership wanted the mutants kicked into space, they would be. It wouldn't matter what any individual editor wanted, nor could an editor take that story with them by leaving, or kill it by leaving, as if there was a direction one editor didn't want to go in, they could just make the replacement do it instead.
And it seems that Marts left for a new opportunity, unless secretly all he wanted was to send the X-Men into space and they wouldn't let him, so he quit. And will spend his time at Aftershock sending their mutants into space ;)
I actually wouldn't be shocked if the other planet plan was going to be Remender's book, and when he decided to take a break from Marvel, they shelved it.
You're very insightful, but the truth is that Rich has been positing his predictions on the X-Men being replaced by the Inhumans due to the Marvel / FOX deal for over 1.5 years.
It is possible that much of the gossip is in fact based on posited suggestions or inside-baseball fluctuating inside Marvel. Given the reputation of Marvel Entertainment chief Ike Perlmutter being a bit of a petulant tyrant, I'm rather unsure of the veracity of many of these rumors, but willing to consider them.
Still unsure what the future holds for my beloved FF.
Perhaps we should all do as you suggest and consider the source, but BC isn't the only source providing these reports. I am NOT a fan of Rich Johnston, or Bleeding Cool, but some of the rumors that he's printed aren't without merit.
You're very insightful, but the truth is that Rich has been positing his predictions on the X-Men being replaced by the Inhumans due to the Marvel / FOX deal for over 1.5 years.
It is possible that much of the gossip is in fact based on posited suggestions or inside-baseball fluctuating inside Marvel. Given the reputation of Marvel Entertainment chief Ike Perlmutter being a bit of a petulant tyrant, I'm rather unsure of the veracity of many of these rumors, but willing to consider them.
Still unsure what the future holds for my beloved FF.
Perhaps we should all do as you suggest and consider the source, but BC isn't the only source providing these reports. I am NOT a fan of Rich Johnston, or Bleeding Cool, but some of the rumors that he's printed aren't without merit.
Sure, people, and not just Johnston, have been beating that 'mutants down, Inhumans up' drum for awhile now. But I am talking specifically about his 'all the mutants banished to space' story, which he presented in May as proof that he has been right about all these things he has been rumoring about. That he had been saying that, despite Alonso and others suggesting that the X-Men would be safe, he had these sources telling him that they would be kept away from the MU by this ridiculous mutants in space idea. And I think he was fed some nonsense and punked on that specific thing, and didn't have the sense to question such a dumb sounding idea (or, to be more kind, they preyed on his confirmation bias.) They have done that to him before.
As for the veracity of the ongoing, larger rumors. Well, who knows what people are trying to do behind the scenes. But as far as the giveaway preview magazine I got in the shop today, I see that in the line of comics Marvel will launch in October, there are still several X-books, Deadpool, and plenty of mutants. For example, Gambit, who has a movie from Fox in the next year or two, now shares a title with the newly visible to the mainstream Daredevil. There seem to be more mutants, and mutant-led books than Inhumans. And the tag line for Uncanny Avengers makes it clear that it is still meant to be an Avengers/X-Men unity book- the log line is "Fighting for Humanity, Inhumanity, Mutants, and Deadpool."
I'm not sure what else Marvel publishing could do to reassure that the X-Men (and Deadpool) aren't being gotten rid of in favor of Inhumans. If that is the long term plan for the comics, than it must be a very slow burn strategy. (Which tends to not be the Marvel way.)
And while, yes, the future of the FF as a title is unsure, there are FF characters in the mix in the MU in October. And it may be that we aren't seeing Reed, Sue, or Doom, in any promos yet as they are such big players in Secret Wars, a story which hasn't finished yet. Every once in awhile they actually take care to not spoil the big story they are telling (at least not all of it) by what they promote for after it.
And FF is not the only title not yet announced for All-New Marvel. For example, there is no Punisher title announced yet, but likely to be one (both because there is almost always one, and it would be silly to not have one just in time for him to be on Netflix).
Re @i_am_scifi if I am remembering right, there is some stuff about The Hand, and various ninja magic (in his case, the New Orleans variety) involved in Gambit's past, right? So if it is Gambit, that could be the connection. (Though for him to apprentice to DD, they might need to de-age him a bit, though that might align him more with the movie).
Or, if it isn't Gambit, then Gambit should get his people should sue ;)
Can I just say how AWESOME it is that Songbird is finally an Avenger?
I'm normally a fan of Sandaval's art(I think GotG 3000 looks fantastic) but is that supposed to be Wiccan in the red cape? It can't be..when did he go from skinny teen to He-Man..I know it's 8 months later but that's quite the work out plan he's on.
Well if it is Kitty then we can assume most of what happened at the end of the most recent Guardians and Star-Lord series are still in play. At the end of those Peter (have we noticed that Kitty always seems to fall for guys named Peter?) was wrestling with the decision to be the new leader of the Spartax Empire. If he has become the new leader that could explain it. In the Star-Lord series he is the leader of the empire while Kitty is doing the adventuring in the relationship.
what connects gambit with daredevil? seems kind of random...
@bamfbamf From what I've seen online, that is not actually Gambit. Just someone who looks like he could be his second cousin twice removed.
Souls will hopefully do a nice law half of this book.I like a good court scene. If it were Gambit, wouldn't there be some energy crackle on that staff or something...?
Even though Citizen V was in the teaser image... no trace of him in the Preview book. Fingers crossed for an "original" Thunderbolts launch.
That's true. Red Wolf is also in one of the group images, but not in any of the #1 teasers yet.
Of course, there are plenty of other books yet to be announced. For example, I would imagine that a Black Panther #1 and another Iron Fist #1 will be coming soon, given that movie and Netflix show to come.
Yeah, where was this seasonal approach announced? I like the idea, and they've been moving toward that for a while without being above-board about it until after the fact (Young Avengers, She-Hulk).
The Marvel Universe will be shifting towards a season model reminiscent of TV: "I think that the comics industry -- certainly, we are -- slowly working into a season model that’s not too unlike what we see in our favorite cable TV shows: a seasonal model that offers accessible entry points for new readers and is respectful of long-term fans," explained Alonso. "We did Marvel NOW! and All-New Marvel NOW!, which were both two very successful campaigns. And this is the latest campaign."
I can't express how much I really hate that idea. It's the next step in killing the natural writing process. The first step was the idea of writing for the trade paperback, but this is even worse in my opinion. It's like everything has to be modular, and structured so that it can be targeted to the widest possible audience, and losses can be cut quickly. Which is, of course, good for business; but I think the stories will suffer. I can almost imagine editors expecting to see an outline of "this season's" story, and how it will fit into a set amount of issues. "Let's not flesh out the story too much either, because it may run long, and we only have so may issues before "next season" starts.".
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
Yeah, where was this seasonal approach announced? I like the idea, and they've been moving toward that for a while without being above-board about it until after the fact (Young Avengers, She-Hulk).
The Marvel Universe will be shifting towards a season model reminiscent of TV: "I think that the comics industry -- certainly, we are -- slowly working into a season model that’s not too unlike what we see in our favorite cable TV shows: a seasonal model that offers accessible entry points for new readers and is respectful of long-term fans," explained Alonso. "We did Marvel NOW! and All-New Marvel NOW!, which were both two very successful campaigns. And this is the latest campaign."
I can't express how much I really hate that idea. It's the next step in killing the natural writing process. The first step was the idea of writing for the trade paperback, but this is even worse in my opinion. It's like everything has to be modular, and structured so that it can be targeted to the widest possible audience, and losses can be cut quickly. Which is, of course, good for business; but I think the stories will suffer. I can almost imagine editors expecting to see an outline of "this season's" story, and how it will fit into a set amount of issues. "Let's not flesh out the story too much either, because it may run long, and we only have so may issues before "next season" starts.".
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
This is a Marvel thread. Don't let them hear you being negative or we'll all get punished. Take it over to the DC thread where it's safe!
Someone just said they disliked the current Marvel product in the "Hate DC" thread. No thread is safe. >:)
For this thread, Hasn't Marvel basically been doing this (with some books) for a few years now? I would rather see titles last for years without new #1's but that just is not happening anymore.
Due to price and a host of other issues, we drop the books quickly and usually do not come back. Not many books could survive a long (100 issues plus) run. This new "season" format allows them to get the most out of a title before it drops down the sales chart too much. It make sense to a point.
Yeah, where was this seasonal approach announced? I like the idea, and they've been moving toward that for a while without being above-board about it until after the fact (Young Avengers, She-Hulk).
The Marvel Universe will be shifting towards a season model reminiscent of TV: "I think that the comics industry -- certainly, we are -- slowly working into a season model that’s not too unlike what we see in our favorite cable TV shows: a seasonal model that offers accessible entry points for new readers and is respectful of long-term fans," explained Alonso. "We did Marvel NOW! and All-New Marvel NOW!, which were both two very successful campaigns. And this is the latest campaign."
I can't express how much I really hate that idea. It's the next step in killing the natural writing process. The first step was the idea of writing for the trade paperback, but this is even worse in my opinion. It's like everything has to be modular, and structured so that it can be targeted to the widest possible audience, and losses can be cut quickly. Which is, of course, good for business; but I think the stories will suffer. I can almost imagine editors expecting to see an outline of "this season's" story, and how it will fit into a set amount of issues. "Let's not flesh out the story too much either, because it may run long, and we only have so may issues before "next season" starts.".
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
I don't think they are intending this the way it might sound to you. The season model might mean more #1s as jumping on points, but that is not the same as saying that whatever narrative, stakes, or character ideas that have been built up get thrown away between seasons. A new season is not a reboot. If their model is TV, well, it is not like the first episode of the second season of a serial like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones throws away everything and starts over, you know what I mean? And I don't think the season model will for these comics, either.
And you don't even need to look to TV for examples of how this could work-- Marvel is doing this on books already. When Uncanny Avengers relaunched as All New Uncanny Avengers, all sorts of story beats in one volume affected the next. Sure, the #1 was a little more expository and new reader friendly, but it didn't have to throw out what had been built with these characters to get there. Many plots picked up and continued in the new season. I imagine we will see more of that happening. Especially in cases when a writer stays with a book across several seasons.
And keep in mind, my understanding of how pitching at the Big 2 works, even without the season model, writers are usually pitching the broad outline of several story arcs. Long gone are the days when you sell them on a one issue story, and then the editor asks "what happens next??" And then you either sell that next issue or you don't.
My understanding is that it is your concept of 12 or more issues worth of stories, say, two trades at least, that gets you the job. So the staffing of these books have largely been happening in season-like portions already. I'm not sure how formalizing that would hurt the creative process at this point.
And, I expect, seasons will vary in length, depending in the story. It doesn't have to be a restriction. And, if the extra #1s on covers keeps some mid-list books or B or C list characters running longer, then I am game. Years ago, the fact that they gave Vaughan and Alphona a second chance of Runaways (and they called it a "second season" back then) meant that one of my favorite Marvel stories got to find enough readers to finish where it wanted to finish.
Whether it is one-and-done, arcs, seasons, or potentially limitless ongoings, no format is of itself good or bad. Great work can be done with any of those tools.
Comments
At least to judge by the covers of the various X-books, and books featuring mutants (and the Uncanny Avengers promo even uses the "M-word", it looks like Johnston got punked on that one. (And not for the first time)
They were suggesting that, like the FF cancellation, this was part of a top-down driven campaign against the characters that are in Fox movies, that "the X-Men will be shifted into a new pocket reality after the Secret Wars event, so that the characters, whose movie and TV expression are controlled by Fox, would be divorced from interacting with other Marvel characters." So that would be something forced on the editors to do.
Mike Marts, who had been X group editor, abruptly left Marvel in April to become Editor-in-Chief of Aftershock comics.
Then more than a month later, Mark Paniccia was moved into that vacancy.
And it was in the middle there, when there was no X-editor, when Johnston heard from his "multiple sources" that the mutants were going to space (he posted that story May 7th)
If a Fox-hating corporate leadership wanted the mutants kicked into space, they would be. It wouldn't matter what any individual editor wanted, nor could an editor take that story with them by leaving, or kill it by leaving, as if there was a direction one editor didn't want to go in, they could just make the replacement do it instead.
And it seems that Marts left for a new opportunity, unless secretly all he wanted was to send the X-Men into space and they wouldn't let him, so he quit. And will spend his time at Aftershock sending their mutants into space ;)
It is possible that much of the gossip is in fact based on posited suggestions or inside-baseball fluctuating inside Marvel. Given the reputation of Marvel Entertainment chief Ike Perlmutter being a bit of a petulant tyrant, I'm rather unsure of the veracity of many of these rumors, but willing to consider them.
Still unsure what the future holds for my beloved FF.
Perhaps we should all do as you suggest and consider the source, but BC isn't the only source providing these reports. I am NOT a fan of Rich Johnston, or Bleeding Cool, but some of the rumors that he's printed aren't without merit.
As for the veracity of the ongoing, larger rumors. Well, who knows what people are trying to do behind the scenes. But as far as the giveaway preview magazine I got in the shop today, I see that in the line of comics Marvel will launch in October, there are still several X-books, Deadpool, and plenty of mutants. For example, Gambit, who has a movie from Fox in the next year or two, now shares a title with the newly visible to the mainstream Daredevil. There seem to be more mutants, and mutant-led books than Inhumans. And the tag line for Uncanny Avengers makes it clear that it is still meant to be an Avengers/X-Men unity book- the log line is "Fighting for Humanity, Inhumanity, Mutants, and Deadpool."
I'm not sure what else Marvel publishing could do to reassure that the X-Men (and Deadpool) aren't being gotten rid of in favor of Inhumans. If that is the long term plan for the comics, than it must be a very slow burn strategy. (Which tends to not be the Marvel way.)
And while, yes, the future of the FF as a title is unsure, there are FF characters in the mix in the MU in October. And it may be that we aren't seeing Reed, Sue, or Doom, in any promos yet as they are such big players in Secret Wars, a story which hasn't finished yet. Every once in awhile they actually take care to not spoil the big story they are telling (at least not all of it) by what they promote for after it.
And FF is not the only title not yet announced for All-New Marvel. For example, there is no Punisher title announced yet, but likely to be one (both because there is almost always one, and it would be silly to not have one just in time for him to be on Netflix).
This is just the first wave of #1s. We'll see.
Or, if it isn't Gambit, then Gambit should get his people should sue ;)
As a fan of Bunn's current Magneto, I like the sound of this one:
Souls will hopefully do a nice law half of this book.I like a good court scene.
and no Cannonball!?!
You can't have Sunspot and no Cannonball!
That is like Booster without Beetle! Blaspheme!
There are definitely some interesting lineup changes and new directions, and I am ecstatic how many of these are calling out for me to get back in.
If it were Gambit, wouldn't there be some energy crackle on that staff or something...?
Of course, there are plenty of other books yet to be announced. For example, I would imagine that a Black Panther #1 and another Iron Fist #1 will be coming soon, given that movie and Netflix show to come.
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
This is a Marvel thread. Don't let them hear you being negative or we'll all get punished. Take it over to the DC thread where it's safe!
For this thread, Hasn't Marvel basically been doing this (with some books) for a few years now? I would rather see titles last for years without new #1's but that just is not happening anymore.
Due to price and a host of other issues, we drop the books quickly and usually do not come back. Not many books could survive a long (100 issues plus) run. This new "season" format allows them to get the most out of a title before it drops down the sales chart too much. It make sense to a point.
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
I don't think they are intending this the way it might sound to you. The season model might mean more #1s as jumping on points, but that is not the same as saying that whatever narrative, stakes, or character ideas that have been built up get thrown away between seasons. A new season is not a reboot. If their model is TV, well, it is not like the first episode of the second season of a serial like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones throws away everything and starts over, you know what I mean? And I don't think the season model will for these comics, either.
And you don't even need to look to TV for examples of how this could work-- Marvel is doing this on books already. When Uncanny Avengers relaunched as All New Uncanny Avengers, all sorts of story beats in one volume affected the next. Sure, the #1 was a little more expository and new reader friendly, but it didn't have to throw out what had been built with these characters to get there. Many plots picked up and continued in the new season. I imagine we will see more of that happening. Especially in cases when a writer stays with a book across several seasons.
And keep in mind, my understanding of how pitching at the Big 2 works, even without the season model, writers are usually pitching the broad outline of several story arcs. Long gone are the days when you sell them on a one issue story, and then the editor asks "what happens next??" And then you either sell that next issue or you don't.
My understanding is that it is your concept of 12 or more issues worth of stories, say, two trades at least, that gets you the job. So the staffing of these books have largely been happening in season-like portions already. I'm not sure how formalizing that would hurt the creative process at this point.
And, I expect, seasons will vary in length, depending in the story. It doesn't have to be a restriction. And, if the extra #1s on covers keeps some mid-list books or B or C list characters running longer, then I am game. Years ago, the fact that they gave Vaughan and Alphona a second chance of Runaways (and they called it a "second season" back then) meant that one of my favorite Marvel stories got to find enough readers to finish where it wanted to finish.
Whether it is one-and-done, arcs, seasons, or potentially limitless ongoings, no format is of itself good or bad. Great work can be done with any of those tools.