Also, in the latest Axel-in-Charge, he confirms that the character on the Daredevil cover is not Gambit. So I guess his new apprentice is merely a Gambit cosplayer.
I'm gonna add another little pointer to a possible Clint Barton Hawkeye Hulk...
This is the sub title Marvel put out...
Greg Pak makes his triumphant return to the Gamma Goliath alongside artist Frank Cho!
I'm pretty sure I'm reading too much into this, but it would be totally awesome.
I'm gonna keep stoking this fire...
Didn't see Clint Barton in any image that Marvel released recently...
He's on the cover of New Avengers.
Dammit guys, you've crushed my dreams!! :D
It's what we live for!
It was a fun idea, though-- it would be a interesting place for Hawkeye to be in, relative to the other heroes, to suddenly have all that power. The character that the rest of them often don't take seriously would need to be taken VERY seriously.
I don't think they are intending this the way it might sound to you. The season model might mean more #1s as jumping on points, but that is not the same as saying that whatever narrative, stakes, or character ideas that have been built up get thrown away between seasons. A new season is not a reboot. If their model is TV, well, it is not like the first episode of the second season of a serial like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones throws away everything and starts over, you know what I mean? And I don't think the season model will for these comics, either.
And you don't even need to look to TV for examples of how this could work-- Marvel is doing this on books already. When Uncanny Avengers relaunched as All New Uncanny Avengers, all sorts of story beats in one volume affected the next. Sure, the #1 was a little more expository and new reader friendly, but it didn't have to throw out what had been built with these characters to get there. Many plots picked up and continued in the new season. I imagine we will see more of that happening. Especially in cases when a writer stays with a book across several seasons.
And keep in mind, my understanding of how pitching at the Big 2 works, even without the season model, writers are usually pitching the broad outline of several story arcs. Long gone are the days when you sell them on a one issue story, and then the editor asks "what happens next??" And then you either sell that next issue or you don't.
My understanding is that it is your concept of 12 or more issues worth of stories, say, two trades at least, that gets you the job. So the staffing of these books have largely been happening in season-like portions already. I'm not sure how formalizing that would hurt the creative process at this point.
And, I expect, seasons will vary in length, depending in the story. It doesn't have to be a restriction. And, if the extra #1s on covers keeps some mid-list books or B or C list characters running longer, then I am game. Years ago, the fact that they gave Vaughan and Alphona a second chance of Runaways (and they called it a "second season" back then) meant that one of my favorite Marvel stories got to find enough readers to finish where it wanted to finish.
Whether it is one-and-done, arcs, seasons, or potentially limitless ongoings, no format is of itself good or bad. Great work can be done with any of those tools.
I hope you're right. I will still give the stories a fair shake, it would be wrong not to. Although I hope the next batch of 40 or so titles are better than this first batch of 45 just announced. But THAT'S another whole topic, and just my personal opinion. If people are excited about the announced titles, I hope they turn out to be great for them.
I guess it just feels to me like corporate is trying too hard to control too much of the process. It's kind of like they see the movies doing gangbusters at the box office, and somehow don't understand why it's not translating into more comic book sales.
So, in order to make that happen, they want to make the comics more LIKE the movies and tv shows by chunking them into "bite-size" pieces for the "audience". In a way, I understand that. I used to be that person who skipped number of great titles because I didn't think I could just jump in. And I DO like the idea of advertising (so to speak) jumping in points. But for me, the idea of seasons also diminishes the idea of it being a congruent universe that's continuously happening. While I see your point that it wont be a reboot every time a new "season" begins, and things that happen will still affect future stories, it's still kinda like the difference between a seasonal show and, say, a soap opera. When you watch a soap, you feel more like you're really in on something. I know it's just nit picking on my part, but the new model just makes the whole medium feel less special to me. I guess, IMO, there's just something to be said for a title with a long run.
I will say that I do like your point about B and C list characters possibly getting more "airtime", but it just feels like it's catering to a more short term, short attention span audience in order to make more money. And if that's what it takes to keep the medium alive, and the stories don't suffer, I guess I'll adapt. But like any good "stubborn old fart", I'm going into the new world kicking and screaming every step of the way..... :)
@JohnnyWI I think those are all healthy concerns, and that are coming from the right place. I do think that there used to be something special about buying, say, the 300th issue of Uncanny X-Men, or Hellblazer, and having that moment of realizing that you have been with it for hundreds of issues. Or, even more so, of buying the 800-and-somethingth issue of Detective Comics and just feeling that sense of history of this being a serial that has run for so many decades. (Digression-- even if, at some points in history, the publishers would monkey with the numbering by changing titles but keeping the higher number, either to save the effort of relisting with a distributor, or making a new title look like a proven quantity to newsstand sellers, depending on who you ask).
But, yes, I do think that there is the potential for something to be lost if shorter runs and season format becomes the norm, even for the successful titles. But I don't agree that what this will change will be the actual content or creative process of these Marvel books. I just think that- whether we are talking about the many relaunches or creative team shifts (often coinciding with a new #1)- that this was already pretty much the norm. If anything, having a one or two month break between seasons might give artists, and to a lesser extent, writers, a chance to catch up, and will help keep certain creative teams together for longer. A lot of creator-owned books have been working that way for years now-- either splitting an ongoing narrative into series of miniseries, Hellboy-style, or simply taking a skip month or two between arcs, as Saga does.
Personally, I feel like those titles are no less special or engaging for doing that. It just means that great work, especially when you are keeping the creative team intact, takes time. Heck, to compare with TV again (never a perfect comparison, but still) shows like Sopranos or Breaking Bad at times could take a big break between seasons, or even break a season in half, and none of it ever ended up feeling bite-sized. Sure, it could be a bummer to wait, but when they were back in, I was back in.
So while I don't want to pretend that this change won't mean anything, or that the feeling of that ongoing numbering can't be part of the enjoyment, I get that. But we are now probably 15 years into the era of Big 2 comics being created with bookstore and library-friendly trades in mind. I would argue that most of the major creators working in the Big 2 right now came up in that market. Pitched and created stories that way. It is how most of them probably think. And some of them have done some really incredible work in exactly that format.
So the idea that, now, we might have the equivalent of two or 3 trades, and call that a season, and then a month or two later the next season starts... beyond the issue and volume number, creatively is that really any different than it is now?
If done right, the season model could have some great benefits:
Cliff hangers between seasons.
The hype of a superstar creative team for a season - the next 12 issues of Dr. Strange are going to be written by Grant Morrison and drawn by George Perez $-)
The chance to save a character or book before sales get so low that the company puts it on the shelf for a couple of years. If something is broke, just end the season before it sinks. Fix the problem and start over.
And FF is not the only title not yet announced for All-New Marvel.
Have you read Secret Wars #3 yet? An interesting outcome for the Human Torch... and then there's this theory about Ben Grimm's whereabouts. Seems legit... but we won't know until it's officially revealed.
And FF is not the only title not yet announced for All-New Marvel.
Have you read Secret Wars #3 yet? An interesting outcome for the Human Torch... and then there's this theory about Ben Grimm's whereabouts. Seems legit... but we won't know until it's officially revealed.
I was just wondering today what happend to Ben Grimm. Interesting theory.
The line up of Al Ewing's Ultimates makes me think he's going to run with his ideas in the penultimate issue of Cap & Mighty Avengers where Blue Marvel and Monica confront the Illuminati.
It even sets it up in the last line of the issue as Monica tells Reed, "The Illuminati failed. It failed all of us. If we somehow survive the mess you people left... we'll talk about what comes next."
@Brack That's a good point. As the prior (brief) run of the Lemire and Perez Hawkeye would alternate between scenes of Clint and Kate in the present, and flashbacks of Clint and his brother Barney as kids. I wonder if the new title might do something similar, but this time there are flash forwards to a grown-up Kate and an Old Man Barton.
I'm or of a neutral fan liking both DC & Marvel, while always leaning towards DC more. So although I don't really find many of these titles after Secret Wars particularly compelling I'll still read Daredevil, Punisher, Drax (just for the CM Punk curiosity) and a couple of the Spider-Man titles. However I'd be willing to wager that after the first arc of most of those books, DD & Punisher will probably be the only titles that continue to stay on my pull list.
And FF is not the only title not yet announced for All-New Marvel.
Have you read Secret Wars #3 yet? An interesting outcome for the Human Torch... and then there's this theory about Ben Grimm's whereabouts. Seems legit... but we won't know until it's officially revealed.
I was just wondering today what happend to Ben Grimm. Interesting theory.
Wow. I thought Ben might be Commissioner Thor, but this... this is really interesting. I mean, I thought Johnny was Franklin's Galactus in Doomstadt, so I've been wrong on this book before.
And FF is not the only title not yet announced for All-New Marvel.
Have you read Secret Wars #3 yet? An interesting outcome for the Human Torch... and then there's this theory about Ben Grimm's whereabouts. Seems legit... but we won't know until it's officially revealed.
That's a great theory. I hope it is true, as that is a really cool idea. And is given even more credence given what ended up happening to Johnny.
Yeah, where was this seasonal approach announced? I like the idea, and they've been moving toward that for a while without being above-board about it until after the fact (Young Avengers, She-Hulk).
The Marvel Universe will be shifting towards a season model reminiscent of TV: "I think that the comics industry -- certainly, we are -- slowly working into a season model that’s not too unlike what we see in our favorite cable TV shows: a seasonal model that offers accessible entry points for new readers and is respectful of long-term fans," explained Alonso. "We did Marvel NOW! and All-New Marvel NOW!, which were both two very successful campaigns. And this is the latest campaign."
I can't express how much I really hate that idea. It's the next step in killing the natural writing process. The first step was the idea of writing for the trade paperback, but this is even worse in my opinion. It's like everything has to be modular, and structured so that it can be targeted to the widest possible audience, and losses can be cut quickly. Which is, of course, good for business; but I think the stories will suffer. I can almost imagine editors expecting to see an outline of "this season's" story, and how it will fit into a set amount of issues. "Let's not flesh out the story too much either, because it may run long, and we only have so may issues before "next season" starts.".
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
Business models must evolve.
This makes tons of sense to me.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling is a dinosaur.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling is a dinosaur.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling by different authors, set in a shared universe where said authors have no ownership of the characters is a dinosaur.
Just because it can't work for Marvel or DC any longer (though Dan Slott and Scott Snyder are giving it the old college try), doesn't mean its not a viable approach elsewhere.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling is a dinosaur.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling by different authors, set in a shared universe where said authors have no ownership of the characters is a dinosaur.
Just because it can't work for Marvel or DC any longer (though Dan Slott and Scott Snyder are giving it the old college try), doesn't mean its not a viable approach elsewhere.
Here's an interview that was just posted to AVClub with Charles Soule all about his upcoming Daredevil run.
On Daredevil's new sidekick...
He was born in China, but his mother brought him here when he was just a kid, which means he’s lived almost his whole life as an American but doesn’t have access to citizenship or even basic things like a social security number or a driver’s license. It’s an interesting dynamic that I feel like I can explore from an informed place. I’ve been working in immigration law for a long time, and I know tons of people like this fellow.
So yeah, not Gambit, nor is it his cousin Bambit, nor his nephew Spambit!
So yeah, not Gambit, nor is it his cousin Bambit, nor his nephew Spambit!
I really want to read an ongoing about the misadventures of Gambit, Bambit and Spambit now. I'm imagining a Trapped In Paradise setup with Gambit as the Nicolas Cage character.
The more I read about The Ultimates the more excited I get.
"With a heavy emphasis on science and exploration, this new assemblage have more on their mind then simply being the team that arrives in the nick of time to put down the bad guys. If their missions succeed, there will be no nick of time at all. However, Ewing recognizes that proactivity does not come without quandaries.
“There are going to be some moral debates—when the problems you’re dealing with are sentient or even above-sentient cosmic creatures, how do you ‘solve’ them?” he questions. “At the same time, someone’s got to deal with these long-running, world-threatening issues. You can put up with a leaky roof if you have to—you can't put up with a collapsing house.”
“Science and exploration feels like something very positive, a general good—it helps mitigate some of those moral concerns,” continues the writer. “I think an emphasis on expanding knowledge makes the team a lot more interesting and sympathetic than, say, a mission to beat people up in the name of preserving the current social order.”
Sounds like this will be filling the void that the FF comic will be leaving. Science and exploration are what I want in an FF book. All that's missing is the family angle.
The more I read about The Ultimates the more excited I get.
"With a heavy emphasis on science and exploration, this new assemblage have more on their mind then simply being the team that arrives in the nick of time to put down the bad guys. If their missions succeed, there will be no nick of time at all. However, Ewing recognizes that proactivity does not come without quandaries.
“There are going to be some moral debates—when the problems you’re dealing with are sentient or even above-sentient cosmic creatures, how do you ‘solve’ them?” he questions. “At the same time, someone’s got to deal with these long-running, world-threatening issues. You can put up with a leaky roof if you have to—you can't put up with a collapsing house.”
“Science and exploration feels like something very positive, a general good—it helps mitigate some of those moral concerns,” continues the writer. “I think an emphasis on expanding knowledge makes the team a lot more interesting and sympathetic than, say, a mission to beat people up in the name of preserving the current social order.”
Sounds like this will be filling the void that the FF comic will be leaving. Science and exploration are what I want in an FF book. All that's missing is the family angle.
Ultimates and the Squadron Supreme books are the new ones I am most intrigued by. I like a team lineup that includes a lot of characters I am not currently reading in other places, and a team dynamic that could be surprising.
Here's an interview that was just posted to AVClub with Charles Soule all about his upcoming Daredevil run.
I read this interview- I am hopeful for this run and I like what I've read of Soule. Really dug his She-Hulk and he's mentioned before what a fan he is of Daredevil.
One other point he raised in the interview was that Matt's secret identity is no longer "out".. He would not elaborate beyond that. So that genie is being put back into the bottle. Reminds me of how key events can get stuck somewhere in an event or event tie-in and you miss them.. I avoid most events (although I am reading Secret Wars, so hopefully that's not the case here).
I suppose Secret Wars or DD #1 could illustrate how the secret identity is restored, or maybe it ends up not being much of a thing to elaborate on, but I really hope that I'm not missing an important DD plot point because among all the Secret Wars books, I'm only reading the main SW series and Thors. For all I know, once Secret Wars begins everyone from DD's previous book (still with 2 issues to go) have been wiped out.. Ultimate DD is already dead, so I don't expect DD to pop up in a Secret Wars tie-in at all. If DD's in a tie-in, I'm unaware, and I hope I'm not missing something that impacts the direction of the new series from some tie-in I am skipping.
It's only now, when I read this interview, that I'm prompted to look and see if I might be missing something I didn't know I would want (and still may not want, for all I know).
Much like how Thor lost Mjolnir outside of any Thor book (it was in the main Original Sin series that I skipped), and of course that defined the direction of the Thor title since it happened.
If DD's in a tie-in, I'm unaware, and I hope I'm not missing something that impacts the direction of the new series from some tie-in I am skipping.
It's not a tie-in to Secret Wars, but yes you are missing something that may impact the direction the new Daredevil. In the current arc Matt has concocted a plan that would restore Daredevil's secret identity at a terrible price.
If DD's in a tie-in, I'm unaware, and I hope I'm not missing something that impacts the direction of the new series from some tie-in I am skipping.
It's not a tie-in to Secret Wars, but yes you are missing something that may impact the direction the new Daredevil. In the current arc Matt has concocted a plan that would restore Daredevil's secret identity at a terrible price.
Comments
Didn't see Clint Barton in any image that Marvel released recently...
It was a fun idea, though-- it would be a interesting place for Hawkeye to be in, relative to the other heroes, to suddenly have all that power. The character that the rest of them often don't take seriously would need to be taken VERY seriously.
And you don't even need to look to TV for examples of how this could work-- Marvel is doing this on books already. When Uncanny Avengers relaunched as All New Uncanny Avengers, all sorts of story beats in one volume affected the next. Sure, the #1 was a little more expository and new reader friendly, but it didn't have to throw out what had been built with these characters to get there. Many plots picked up and continued in the new season. I imagine we will see more of that happening. Especially in cases when a writer stays with a book across several seasons.
And keep in mind, my understanding of how pitching at the Big 2 works, even without the season model, writers are usually pitching the broad outline of several story arcs. Long gone are the days when you sell them on a one issue story, and then the editor asks "what happens next??" And then you either sell that next issue or you don't.
My understanding is that it is your concept of 12 or more issues worth of stories, say, two trades at least, that gets you the job. So the staffing of these books have largely been happening in season-like portions already. I'm not sure how formalizing that would hurt the creative process at this point.
And, I expect, seasons will vary in length, depending in the story. It doesn't have to be a restriction. And, if the extra #1s on covers keeps some mid-list books or B or C list characters running longer, then I am game. Years ago, the fact that they gave Vaughan and Alphona a second chance of Runaways (and they called it a "second season" back then) meant that one of my favorite Marvel stories got to find enough readers to finish where it wanted to finish.
Whether it is one-and-done, arcs, seasons, or potentially limitless ongoings, no format is of itself good or bad. Great work can be done with any of those tools.
I hope you're right. I will still give the stories a fair shake, it would be wrong not to. Although I hope the next batch of 40 or so titles are better than this first batch of 45 just announced. But THAT'S another whole topic, and just my personal opinion. If people are excited about the announced titles, I hope they turn out to be great for them.
I guess it just feels to me like corporate is trying too hard to control too much of the process. It's kind of like they see the movies doing gangbusters at the box office, and somehow don't understand why it's not translating into more comic book sales.
So, in order to make that happen, they want to make the comics more LIKE the movies and tv shows by chunking them into "bite-size" pieces for the "audience". In a way, I understand that. I used to be that person who skipped number of great titles because I didn't think I could just jump in. And I DO like the idea of advertising (so to speak) jumping in points. But for me, the idea of seasons also diminishes the idea of it being a congruent universe that's continuously happening. While I see your point that it wont be a reboot every time a new "season" begins, and things that happen will still affect future stories, it's still kinda like the difference between a seasonal show and, say, a soap opera. When you watch a soap, you feel more like you're really in on something. I know it's just nit picking on my part, but the new model just makes the whole medium feel less special to me. I guess, IMO, there's just something to be said for a title with a long run.
I will say that I do like your point about B and C list characters possibly getting more "airtime", but it just feels like it's catering to a more short term, short attention span audience in order to make more money. And if that's what it takes to keep the medium alive, and the stories don't suffer, I guess I'll adapt. But like any good "stubborn old fart", I'm going into the new world kicking and screaming every step of the way..... :)
But, yes, I do think that there is the potential for something to be lost if shorter runs and season format becomes the norm, even for the successful titles. But I don't agree that what this will change will be the actual content or creative process of these Marvel books. I just think that- whether we are talking about the many relaunches or creative team shifts (often coinciding with a new #1)- that this was already pretty much the norm. If anything, having a one or two month break between seasons might give artists, and to a lesser extent, writers, a chance to catch up, and will help keep certain creative teams together for longer. A lot of creator-owned books have been working that way for years now-- either splitting an ongoing narrative into series of miniseries, Hellboy-style, or simply taking a skip month or two between arcs, as Saga does.
Personally, I feel like those titles are no less special or engaging for doing that. It just means that great work, especially when you are keeping the creative team intact, takes time. Heck, to compare with TV again (never a perfect comparison, but still) shows like Sopranos or Breaking Bad at times could take a big break between seasons, or even break a season in half, and none of it ever ended up feeling bite-sized. Sure, it could be a bummer to wait, but when they were back in, I was back in.
So while I don't want to pretend that this change won't mean anything, or that the feeling of that ongoing numbering can't be part of the enjoyment, I get that. But we are now probably 15 years into the era of Big 2 comics being created with bookstore and library-friendly trades in mind. I would argue that most of the major creators working in the Big 2 right now came up in that market. Pitched and created stories that way. It is how most of them probably think. And some of them have done some really incredible work in exactly that format.
So the idea that, now, we might have the equivalent of two or 3 trades, and call that a season, and then a month or two later the next season starts... beyond the issue and volume number, creatively is that really any different than it is now?
Cliff hangers between seasons.
The hype of a superstar creative team for a season - the next 12 issues of Dr. Strange are going to be written by Grant Morrison and drawn by George Perez $-)
The chance to save a character or book before sales get so low that the company puts it on the shelf for a couple of years. If something is broke, just end the season before it sinks. Fix the problem and start over.
It even sets it up in the last line of the issue as Monica tells Reed, "The Illuminati failed. It failed all of us. If we somehow survive the mess you people left... we'll talk about what comes next." The question is though, why is he younger on the New Avengers cover than he is on his own title?
He's always been smart enough to have them, just too busy to get them. Now that he has them, it would be irresponsible to throw them away.
It also feels like a way for them to just change things up every year without having to bother with writing an intelligent transition. "That storyline didn't go as well as we'd hoped. Oh well, we can just start the next season anew without having to worry about writing our way out of this shit-hole of a story. We'll just write a forgettable ending, and start up again by telling the readers that some time has passed, quickly outline what's about to start, and the readers will just move on without asking questions.".
It'll be like just having an event every year without the "hassle" of writing the "in-between" issues. Which seems really weird to me, as Marvel has always been about world/universe building and continuity, and not about random collections of throw away stories.
Business models must evolve.
This makes tons of sense to me.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling is a dinosaur.
The neverending story model of comic book storytelling in a purer form is the thing that breaks records for the most volumes of comics sold in the world.
Just because it can't work for Marvel or DC any longer (though Dan Slott and Scott Snyder are giving it the old college try), doesn't mean its not a viable approach elsewhere.
On Daredevil's new sidekick... So yeah, not Gambit, nor is it his cousin Bambit, nor his nephew Spambit!
Ultimates and the Squadron Supreme books are the new ones I am most intrigued by. I like a team lineup that includes a lot of characters I am not currently reading in other places, and a team dynamic that could be surprising.
One other point he raised in the interview was that Matt's secret identity is no longer "out".. He would not elaborate beyond that. So that genie is being put back into the bottle. Reminds me of how key events can get stuck somewhere in an event or event tie-in and you miss them.. I avoid most events (although I am reading Secret Wars, so hopefully that's not the case here).
I suppose Secret Wars or DD #1 could illustrate how the secret identity is restored, or maybe it ends up not being much of a thing to elaborate on, but I really hope that I'm not missing an important DD plot point because among all the Secret Wars books, I'm only reading the main SW series and Thors. For all I know, once Secret Wars begins everyone from DD's previous book (still with 2 issues to go) have been wiped out.. Ultimate DD is already dead, so I don't expect DD to pop up in a Secret Wars tie-in at all. If DD's in a tie-in, I'm unaware, and I hope I'm not missing something that impacts the direction of the new series from some tie-in I am skipping.
It's only now, when I read this interview, that I'm prompted to look and see if I might be missing something I didn't know I would want (and still may not want, for all I know).
Much like how Thor lost Mjolnir outside of any Thor book (it was in the main Original Sin series that I skipped), and of course that defined the direction of the Thor title since it happened.