I'm amazed it took them so long. As I re-watch the classic series, I'm often astonished at how disposable the Companions often are. So many story opportunities wasted.
The Companions to me are kind of like the minor characters that always turn up in the rosters of the Justice League or the Avengers. You wonder why they're devoting so much time to Red Tornado or Wonder Man, and the reason why is because they can actually do things with those characters, whereas they can't with Superman or Captain America.
Writers like Moffat and Davies are probably drawn to the Companions these days because they're more adaptable to the style of character arc storytelling that's popular in television no. They change, and they have an ending, more than The Doctor ever will.
Well-said!
Since the revival of the series, there has been a change in the role/importance of the Companions.
I, for one, approve.
It's one of the reasons I finally enjoy the show.
I'm fine with them having a prominent role. I don't want it to be The Clara Show. Or the River Song show
The Companions to me are kind of like the minor characters that always turn up in the rosters of the Justice League or the Avengers. You wonder why they're devoting so much time to Red Tornado or Wonder Man, and the reason why is because they can actually do things with those characters, whereas they can't with Superman or Captain America.
Writers like Moffat and Davies are probably drawn to the Companions these days because they're more adaptable to the style of character arc storytelling that's popular in television no. They change, and they have an ending, more than The Doctor ever will.
Well-said!
Since the revival of the series, there has been a change in the role/importance of the Companions.
I, for one, approve.
It's one of the reasons I finally enjoy the show.
I'm fine with them having a prominent role. I don't want it to be The Clara Show. Or the River Song show
I keep waiting for a disappointing episode, because there's always at least one, but tonight still wasn't it. It's far from the best episode of the season, but it's also a lot better than some early reviews would have led me to believe.
I only have two complaints, and they're not terribly spoilery:
What is up with all the anti-soldier sentiment? I get that throughout the series, The Doctor is usually something of a pacifist, and tends to not get along too well with military personnel, but he also spent five years as an advisor to UNIT, which is a military organization. And one of his closest friends was the Brigadier, a soldier who also went on to teach... mathematics! The whole thing reminds me of that nonsense in Series 7 when the Ponds were divorcing, with no discernible reason other than Moffat needed some conflict. It's been an awkward element since the Dalek episode, but it was way over the top tonight.
And on a less serious note: Danny's gymnastic leap looked ridiculous.
I keep waiting for a disappointing episode, because there's always at least one, but tonight still wasn't it. It's far from the best episode of the season, but it's also a lot better than some early reviews would have led me to believe.
I only have two complaints, and they're not terribly spoilery:
What is up with all the anti-soldier sentiment? I get that throughout the series, The Doctor is usually something of a pacifist, and tends to not get along too well with military personnel, but he also spent five years as an advisor to UNIT, which is a military organization. And one of his closest friends was the Brigadier, a soldier who also went on to teach... mathematics! The whole thing reminds me of that nonsense in Series 7 when the Ponds were divorcing, with no discernible reason other than Moffat needed some conflict. It's been an awkward element since the Dalek episode, but it was way over the top tonight.
And on a less serious note: Danny's gymnastic leap looked ridiculous.
What? Just because the doctor has killed or caused the deaths of far more people (alien people) than almost any soldier?
I think Mr. Pink's talk of the difference between soldiers and officers was quite telling.
And I think this issue will continue to be explored through the course of the season.
Danny's "yes sir"-ing and saluting and calling out The Doctor as an officer and an aristocrat was the point at which I totally bought into his character.
"Ohhhhhh-ho-ho a Time Lorrrrd. Might have known."
"That's him. Look at him right now. That's who he is."
I think Mr. Pink's talk of the difference between soldiers and officers was quite telling.
And I think this issue will continue to be explored through the course of the season.
Danny's "yes sir"-ing and saluting and calling out The Doctor as an officer and an aristocrat was the point at which I totally bought into his character.
"Ohhhhhh-ho-ho a Time Lorrrrd. Might have known."
"That's him. Look at him right now. That's who he is."
I see where they may be going with it, and they may pull it off, but I still feel like the initial conflict came out of nowhere just so they could get to a certain place by season's end. Kind of like the start of last season, when suddenly the Ponds had lost the ability to simply say a couple sentences to one another and clarify things, and were heading straight for divorce.
Kind of like the start of last season, when suddenly the Ponds had lost the ability to simply say a couple sentences to one another and clarify things, and were heading straight for divorce.
That made sense to me as well.
Going from a shared life of constant epic adventure to mundane domesticity sounds like a pretty serious marriage-strainer to me.
I really want to like this Doctor but I'm, what 5/6 episodes in and I still don't have a good feel for the character.
Admittedly my exposure to the First Doctor is quite limited, but it seems to be an exploration of that crusty old personality type filtered through a more modern lens.
The return to the original school, and the flirtation with the two-teachers-and-a-schoolgirl dynamic suggests as much as well.
Kind of like the start of last season, when suddenly the Ponds had lost the ability to simply say a couple sentences to one another and clarify things, and were heading straight for divorce.
That made sense to me as well.
Going from a shared life of constant epic adventure to mundane domesticity sounds like a pretty serious marriage-strainer to me.
But the issue seemed to be that she couldn't have children, and assumed Rory would leave her because of that. So, instead of actually talking about it, she went straight for divorcing him.
Even as immature as Amy could be, I found it hard to believe that at no point would the topic come up, and that Rory would have been able to address the matter.
I sometimes feel like Moffat is more focused on where things end up than on how we get there. And there were other ways to strain their marriage - the one you suggested, or Rory finally having enough of The Doctor (which I think he should have, after their baby was lost - for that matter, so should have Amy).
I really want to like this Doctor but I'm, what 5/6 episodes in and I still don't have a good feel for the character.
Admittedly my exposure to the First Doctor is quite limited, but it seems to be an exploration of that crusty old personality type filtered through a more modern lens.
The return to the original school, and the flirtation with the two-teachers-and-a-schoolgirl dynamic suggests as much as well.
I understand that he can be Doctor alternately iteration13/1 and so gets compared to Hartnell but I don't see the resemblance. He could arguably be #2 as he is the first regeneration of a new cycle so he may be closer to Troughton than Hartnell in that respect.
yeah, the return to Cole Hill School is a bit of a throwback. Ian Chesterton and later Stephen were certainly the heroic figures in those early seasons so Moffit's companion-centric episodes have some precident.
I just don't have a feel for who the Doctor is yet. Tom & Colin Baker, you know right away what your dealing with. (you may night like it but you know where you stand) Troughton, Tennant, Smith, Davison, Pertwee the Doctor has a specific voice. Eccelston maybe less so but he only had a single season run. McGann only had one episode but I "got" his Doctor. I don't feel like this iteration has been solidified yet and by this point in the season that worries me.
I feel like I have a good handle on him. I don't really find him grumpy. I think he's more alien than we've had in a while, and he views saving the Earth as a job, because he's the only one who can do it, and besides, he needs to fill his time somehow. Sometimes his adventures are a game to him, a challenge to win, so he ends up focusing more on how brilliant he is than the consequences of what he does. He's also obsessed with knowing things, even at the risk of his own life.
But, he's smart enough to know he's lacking something, and a companion with a sensitivity to people and an eye for the little things that he misses is necessary at times. And, I think with Clara he's taken an almost paternal interest in her well-being. I think he also gets lonely, but won't admit it. I don't know when I've seen a Doctor let a nosey child in on his secret so easily the way he did with Courtney.
I feel like I have a good handle on him. I don't really find him grumpy. I think he's more alien than we've had in a while, and he views saving the Earth as a job, because he's the only one who can do it, and besides, he needs to fill his time somehow. Sometimes his adventures are a game to him, a challenge to win, so he ends up focusing more on how brilliant he is than the consequences of what he does. He's also obsessed with knowing things, even at the risk of his own life.
But, he's smart enough to know he's lacking something, and a companion with a sensitivity to people and an eye for the little things that he misses is necessary at times. And, I think with Clara he's taken an almost paternal interest in her well-being. I think he also gets lonely, but won't admit it. I don't know when I've seen a Doctor let a nosey child in on his secret so easily the way he did with Courtney.
I don't get Grumpy either I definitely agree with the alien lack of understanding. The lonely I think is a bit of a carry-over from the Tennant/Smith era He seems so wrapped up in his own brillance that he misses the forest for the trees
(maybe i do have a handle on him and just don't like it) (no thats not true i don't not like him [forgive the double negative] but i'm still waiting for the definitive ah-ha! THATS who this character is, thing)
But the issue seemed to be that she couldn't have children, and assumed Rory would leave her because of that. So, instead of actually talking about it, she went straight for divorcing him.
I always presumed the children issue was simply the trigger, not the underlying issue.
But the issue seemed to be that she couldn't have children, and assumed Rory would leave her because of that. So, instead of actually talking about it, she went straight for divorcing him.
I always presumed the children issue was simply the trigger, not the underlying issue.
Maybe. I just remember at the end of Asylum of the Daleks Amy and Rory reconciling after she tells him she can't have children, and he says it doesn't matter.
But the issue seemed to be that she couldn't have children, and assumed Rory would leave her because of that. So, instead of actually talking about it, she went straight for divorcing him.
I always presumed the children issue was simply the trigger, not the underlying issue.
Maybe. I just remember at the end of Asylum of the Daleks Amy and Rory reconciling after she tells him she can't have children, and he says it doesn't matter.
They had also just had another grand adventure together, dealing with the "real" issue.
(I'm a nerd, so I over-think everything. AND I'm high-empathy, so I over-feel everything. So I love both the sci-fi aspects AND the soap opera aspects of the show.)
But the issue seemed to be that she couldn't have children, and assumed Rory would leave her because of that. So, instead of actually talking about it, she went straight for divorcing him.
I always presumed the children issue was simply the trigger, not the underlying issue.
Maybe. I just remember at the end of Asylum of the Daleks Amy and Rory reconciling after she tells him she can't have children, and he says it doesn't matter.
They had also just had another grand adventure together, dealing with the "real" issue.
(I'm a nerd, so I over-think everything. AND I'm high-empathy, so I over-feel everything. So I love both the sci-fi aspects AND the soap opera aspects of the show.)
I like the idea of that being the issue, and I remember later in the season they did discuss the toll time traveling was taking on their personal lives, but it never felt to me like the show was making it into a divisive issue for their marriage.
It would make sense if they did. It would have made sense if they'd tackled a lot of things in that relationship, but they always seemed afraid to. I feel like Amy and Rory got effed over by the Doctor more than almost any of his companions, yet Moffat still felt they needed to be ripped away from The Doctor rather than just let the natural conflicts bubble up and separate them.
I have a feeling that when Clara says goodbye, even if tempers have cooled by the time of the final farewell, the parting will still be messy.
I like the idea of that being the issue, and I remember later in the season they did discuss the toll time traveling was taking on their personal lives, but it never felt to me like the show was making it into a divisive issue for their marriage.
It would make sense if they did. It would have made sense if they'd tackled a lot of things in that relationship, but they always seemed afraid to. I feel like Amy and Rory got effed over by the Doctor more than almost any of his companions, yet Moffat still felt they needed to be ripped away from The Doctor rather than just let the natural conflicts bubble up and separate them.
I have a feeling that when Clara says goodbye, even if tempers have cooled by the time of the final farewell, the parting will still be messy.
It's quite possible that I create subtexts where none were intended. (I am the Anti-Bryan!)
I think the only way the Ponds were ever going to escape The Doctor was some sort of ripping away. (I don't accept that he couldn't have gone back in time to get them, just that he finally realized he shouldn't.)*
And what Companions have had non-messy partings? It's part of the price one pays to accompany an immortal. (and one of the overarching themes of the modern series, I believe.)
*BTW: I think "fixed points in time" are bullshit and The Doctor knows so. I think they are actually "points in time I have chosen to let stand, and therefore, as The Last Time Lord**, I hereby declare them fixed."
**I also rather think he prefers being the last Time Lord, as his judgement is the only judgement he accepts.
*BTW: I think "fixed points in time" are bullshit and The Doctor knows so. I think they are actually "points in time I have chosen to let stand, and therefore, as The Last Time Lord**, I hereby declare them fixed.".
I like the idea of that being the issue, and I remember later in the season they did discuss the toll time traveling was taking on their personal lives, but it never felt to me like the show was making it into a divisive issue for their marriage.
It would make sense if they did. It would have made sense if they'd tackled a lot of things in that relationship, but they always seemed afraid to. I feel like Amy and Rory got effed over by the Doctor more than almost any of his companions, yet Moffat still felt they needed to be ripped away from The Doctor rather than just let the natural conflicts bubble up and separate them.
I have a feeling that when Clara says goodbye, even if tempers have cooled by the time of the final farewell, the parting will still be messy.
It's quite possible that I create subtexts where none were intended. (I am the Anti-Bryan!)
I think the only way the Ponds were ever going to escape The Doctor was some sort of ripping away. (I don't accept that he couldn't have gone back in time to get them, just that he finally realized he shouldn't.)*
And what Companions have had non-messy partings? It's part of the price one pays to accompany an immortal. (and one of the overarching themes of the modern series, I believe.)
*BTW: I think "fixed points in time" are bullshit and The Doctor knows so. I think they are actually "points in time I have chosen to let stand, and therefore, as The Last Time Lord**, I hereby declare them fixed."
**I also rather think he prefers being the last Time Lord, as his judgement is the only judgement he accepts.
Messy for me would be a companion choosing to leave instead of being removed, which is what we've seen with Rose, Donna, and the Ponds. Aside from Martha, who handled it all very matter of factly, we haven't had moments where the Companion or the Doctor realizes it's time to separate. It's less tidy, because, what's to stop them from just picking things up again down the road and traveling together once more. So, there has to be a reason, and it'll usually involve someone choosing something else over the Doctor, or the Doctor deciding someone needs to stop traveling with him for whatever reason. Either way, feelings get hurt in a different way than we've gotten in the new series, where the exit is typically something out of the Doctor's hands.
Classic Who often botched the companion exits, but they had a few good ones along those lines: the Doctor kicking Susan out to live her own life; Ian and Barbara choosing to risk using a Dalek time machine to get back home rather than continue with the Doctor; Jo Grant choosing marriage; Tegan angrily leaving the Doctor because of all the violence surrounding them. I'd prefer to see a few more exits like that in the new series instead of all this trapped in a parallel world/locked in a time zone the Doctor can't visit/mind erased stuff we've had so far.
I do like the idea of the Doctor choosing to leave the Ponds be, though, I think you may be seeing something that isn't there. I don't think he would leave them trapped in the past like that. Personally, I think he should have just left them alone after series seven. When he saw them happily shopping in "Closing Time", it should have clued him in that they would have a life after him. I thought them sitting around that table talking with River Song was a much better exit.
I don't think he would leave them trapped in the past like that. Personally, I think he should have just left them alone after series seven. When he saw them happily shopping in "Closing Time", it should have clued him in that they would have a life after him. I thought them sitting around that table talking with River Song was a much better exit.
Yes. He should have left them alone then, but he selfishly continued to meddle.
I am reinterpreting all The Doctor's previous acts through the #12 filter, and am really seeing him as a colossal jerk.
I don't think he would leave them trapped in the past like that.
Trapped in the past, or safe in a timeline where they live out their natural lives together?
If I were to show-run the show, I would quietly imply* that he's really not detecting problems about to happen, but instead, constantly coming back to change things to a more acceptable outcome. Perhaps sometimes, many times before getting it right.**
*Because just out-and-out establishing it would spoil the magic.
**Or right-ish/about as good an outcome as he can settle for.
I don't think he would leave them trapped in the past like that. Personally, I think he should have just left them alone after series seven. When he saw them happily shopping in "Closing Time", it should have clued him in that they would have a life after him. I thought them sitting around that table talking with River Song was a much better exit.
Yes. He should have left them alone then, but he selfishly continued to meddle.
I am reinterpreting all The Doctor's previous acts through the #12 filter, and am really seeing him as a colossal jerk.
Finding subtext that isn't there is pretty much required to make sense of (and sometimes enjoy) Classic Who, so I don't see why that shouldn't continue with New Who, even though these days the writers seem more self-aware than they did in the old days.
As time goes by, I find both 10 and 11 at best immature, and often quite selfish.
Comments
I only have two complaints, and they're not terribly spoilery:
What is up with all the anti-soldier sentiment? I get that throughout the series, The Doctor is usually something of a pacifist, and tends to not get along too well with military personnel, but he also spent five years as an advisor to UNIT, which is a military organization. And one of his closest friends was the Brigadier, a soldier who also went on to teach... mathematics! The whole thing reminds me of that nonsense in Series 7 when the Ponds were divorcing, with no discernible reason other than Moffat needed some conflict. It's been an awkward element since the Dalek episode, but it was way over the top tonight.
And on a less serious note: Danny's gymnastic leap looked ridiculous.
And I think this issue will continue to be explored through the course of the season.
Danny's "yes sir"-ing and saluting and calling out The Doctor as an officer and an aristocrat was the point at which I totally bought into his character.
"Ohhhhhh-ho-ho a Time Lorrrrd. Might have known."
"That's him. Look at him right now. That's who he is."
Going from a shared life of constant epic adventure to mundane domesticity sounds like a pretty serious marriage-strainer to me.
The return to the original school, and the flirtation with the two-teachers-and-a-schoolgirl dynamic suggests as much as well.
Even as immature as Amy could be, I found it hard to believe that at no point would the topic come up, and that Rory would have been able to address the matter.
I sometimes feel like Moffat is more focused on where things end up than on how we get there. And there were other ways to strain their marriage - the one you suggested, or Rory finally having enough of The Doctor (which I think he should have, after their baby was lost - for that matter, so should have Amy).
yeah, the return to Cole Hill School is a bit of a throwback. Ian Chesterton and later Stephen were certainly the heroic figures in those early seasons so Moffit's companion-centric episodes have some precident.
I just don't have a feel for who the Doctor is yet. Tom & Colin Baker, you know right away what your dealing with. (you may night like it but you know where you stand) Troughton, Tennant, Smith, Davison, Pertwee the Doctor has a specific voice. Eccelston maybe less so but he only had a single season run. McGann only had one episode but I "got" his Doctor. I don't feel like this iteration has been solidified yet and by this point in the season that worries me.
But, he's smart enough to know he's lacking something, and a companion with a sensitivity to people and an eye for the little things that he misses is necessary at times. And, I think with Clara he's taken an almost paternal interest in her well-being. I think he also gets lonely, but won't admit it. I don't know when I've seen a Doctor let a nosey child in on his secret so easily the way he did with Courtney.
I definitely agree with the alien lack of understanding.
The lonely I think is a bit of a carry-over from the Tennant/Smith era
He seems so wrapped up in his own brillance that he misses the forest for the trees
(maybe i do have a handle on him and just don't like it)
(no thats not true i don't not like him [forgive the double negative] but i'm still waiting for the definitive ah-ha! THATS who this character is, thing)
I'd say abrasive, bordering on assholery. (assholishness? assholiness?)
When it comes to Danny, crossing that border in force.
(I'm a nerd, so I over-think everything. AND I'm high-empathy, so I over-feel everything. So I love both the sci-fi aspects AND the soap opera aspects of the show.)
It would make sense if they did. It would have made sense if they'd tackled a lot of things in that relationship, but they always seemed afraid to. I feel like Amy and Rory got effed over by the Doctor more than almost any of his companions, yet Moffat still felt they needed to be ripped away from The Doctor rather than just let the natural conflicts bubble up and separate them.
I have a feeling that when Clara says goodbye, even if tempers have cooled by the time of the final farewell, the parting will still be messy.
I think the only way the Ponds were ever going to escape The Doctor was some sort of ripping away. (I don't accept that he couldn't have gone back in time to get them, just that he finally realized he shouldn't.)*
And what Companions have had non-messy partings? It's part of the price one pays to accompany an immortal. (and one of the overarching themes of the modern series, I believe.)
*BTW: I think "fixed points in time" are bullshit and The Doctor knows so. I think they are actually "points in time I have chosen to let stand, and therefore, as The Last Time Lord**, I hereby declare them fixed."
**I also rather think he prefers being the last Time Lord, as his judgement is the only judgement he accepts.
Classic Who often botched the companion exits, but they had a few good ones along those lines: the Doctor kicking Susan out to live her own life; Ian and Barbara choosing to risk using a Dalek time machine to get back home rather than continue with the Doctor; Jo Grant choosing marriage; Tegan angrily leaving the Doctor because of all the violence surrounding them. I'd prefer to see a few more exits like that in the new series instead of all this trapped in a parallel world/locked in a time zone the Doctor can't visit/mind erased stuff we've had so far.
I do like the idea of the Doctor choosing to leave the Ponds be, though, I think you may be seeing something that isn't there. I don't think he would leave them trapped in the past like that. Personally, I think he should have just left them alone after series seven. When he saw them happily shopping in "Closing Time", it should have clued him in that they would have a life after him. I thought them sitting around that table talking with River Song was a much better exit.
I am reinterpreting all The Doctor's previous acts through the #12 filter, and am really seeing him as a colossal jerk.
If I were to show-run the show, I would quietly imply* that he's really not detecting problems about to happen, but instead, constantly coming back to change things to a more acceptable outcome. Perhaps sometimes, many times before getting it right.**
*Because just out-and-out establishing it would spoil the magic.
**Or right-ish/about as good an outcome as he can settle for.
As time goes by, I find both 10 and 11 at best immature, and often quite selfish.