@chrisw let's just say we differ in opinions on Tom baker's run. Underworld indeed is one of the worst episodes ever. Sun,Akers, one of my favorites. Leela episodes are rarely not entertaining. Destiny of the daleks and the horns of nimon are great cheese episodes. The series was half good half forgettable. Key to time? A misstep here and there in it but still ambitious and successful.
Destiny of the Daleks is the one with the Movellans, right? The alien robots that all look like Rick James?
as much as I loved watching the old serials on PBS as a kid (and later VHS), rewatching them now really has me appreciating the current hour long format. I imagine its completely different watching them week to week as they aired, but consuming 3 or 4 episodes in one go reveals the massive amount of fat in each serial.
With the hour format, if the plot requires more time, there can be a 2 parter (and some of the two parters are flabby.)
Makes me wonder if a competent editor couldnt go back an distill a few of the old serials that still impact the current storylines.
@chrisw let's just say we differ in opinions on Tom baker's run. Underworld indeed is one of the worst episodes ever. Sun,Akers, one of my favorites. Leela episodes are rarely not entertaining. Destiny of the daleks and the horns of nimon are great cheese episodes. The series was half good half forgettable. Key to time? A misstep here and there in it but still ambitious and successful.
I could probably be swayed to ease up on my dislike of seasons 15 and 16. Taken on their own, without comparing them to the best of the Baker era, they're probably no worse than anything from Davison's three seasons, which certainly had their share of problems, just not enough for me to think the show was going off the rails.
Season 17, though, will always be viewed as a failure by me. By that point, Baker had chased away two perfectly good actresses and was clowning around enough that it seemed as if he didn't care anymore. I don't think the show needs to take itself too seriously, but Baker's attitude was detrimental at that point.
And, yes, LibraryBoy, Destiny of the Daleks is the one that gives us the Rick James aliens.
as much as I loved watching the old serials on PBS as a kid (and later VHS), rewatching them now really has me appreciating the current hour long format. I imagine its completely different watching them week to week as they aired, but consuming 3 or 4 episodes in one go reveals the massive amount of fat in each serial.
With the hour format, if the plot requires more time, there can be a 2 parter (and some of the two parters are flabby.)
Makes me wonder if a competent editor couldnt go back an distill a few of the old serials that still impact the current storylines.
As I rewatch the classic series (and if anyone's interested, I've actually been casually blogging about each one as I watch it: doctorwhoepisodebyepisode.blogspot.com/ ) the toughest part is the length of the stories. Virtually every one of them is too long, and the six-parters can be brutal. It's obvious they did it mainly for budget - not changing the sets for six weeks probably saves a good chunk of money.
On the other hand, I find that I'm much more invested in the the supporting cast when we get a chance to spend time with them. I can't recall characters from last season, but there are ones from the classic era the will spring back to mind just by hearing an episode title. So, it has some pluses, but not enough that I would ever want to see them go back to it.
@chrisw if 6 partners kill you, what did you do to survive War Games?
And to be fair, Baker's messy divorce from Lalla Ward and the shrinking budget, K9 and other stuff did make him want to quit. He was butting heads with the directors and producers to the point of screaming matches and delaying production. At the end he still owned the role but the heart (hearts?) was gone.
@chrisw if 6 partners kill you, what did you do to survive War Games?
It’s been a long time since I saw War Games. Just a few years ago, though, I made it through a reconstruction of all twelve episodes of The Dalek Masterplan.
I generally don’t have too much of a problem with the six-parters, but my patience wears thin when they resort to the whole “captured, escaping, then getting re-captured” trick of dragging things out. As I work my way through the Hartnell era, the historical stories are particularly bad about this, so that may be coloring my view of six-part stories in general.
Traditionally Tom's run is considered the apex of classic Who and i certainly understand why but everybody loves their first Doctor and for me that is Davison. My first episode was Visitation which, to this day i believe is the perfect introductory episode because it has everything, history, aliens, companions, the tardis, humor and it is all jammed into one crazy package. Colin will always have a special place in my heart partially because he was my first regeneration (and that just freakin blew my mind) but also because of how he has embrased fandom and really developed the character of the 6th doctor in the Big Finish audios. I will always stick up for Colin. especially becasue of that Michael Grade cancellation fiasco. McCoy i like as a dude but i agree the episodes are virtually unwatchable.
The problems with the ponds leaving - what I want to know is if the ponds made a fixed point in time in 1938, then why can't the doctor pick them up in 1939? If the doctor can't interfere with the pond's time line then that means he can't return to New York till 1998 based on the age of Amy on the grave stone. _ can't river use her time travel device to remove her parents, Like Captain Jack did when chasing the Master with Tennant? If she can't travel back due to the threat for destroying New York then she can't write the book that starts the episode. This would cause a paradox causing this episode to disappear into the void where it belongs.
@grimsister. You nailed it. The ponds exit makes no sense.
@chrisw I agree. Thanks for explaining. I have trouble with them too for the most part. Some 4 parters have that third ep drag also. Look, corridors we must run thru!!!
Just watched The Sontaran Experiment the other day and was amazed by how economical it was. Not one of the all time great Who stories, but still, you managed to get the whole plot set up, establish the conflict, throw the Doctor, Harry, and Sarah into several different near-death scenarios, and the resolve everything in 2 short episodes. Really shows the bloat that takes up so much room in so many other stories (particularly all those 6-parts-or-longer serials). Even the long stories I really like (Genesis of the Daleks, The Invasion, Talons of Weng Chiang, The Green Death, The Seeds of Death, Inferno) tend to bore me during those middle-chapter draggy bits. I especially hate it when the episode's characters suspect the Doctor of causing whatever problem is happening, grow to trust him, start to suspect him again, try to kill him, trust him again, try to kill him again, etc.
Just watched The Sontaran Experiment the other day and was amazed by how economical it was. Not one of the all time great Who stories, but still, you managed to get the whole plot set up, establish the conflict, throw the Doctor, Harry, and Sarah into several different near-death scenarios, and the resolve everything in 2 short episodes. Really shows the bloat that takes up so much room in so many other stories (particularly all those 6-parts-or-longer serials). Even the long stories I really like (Genesis of the Daleks, The Invasion, Talons of Weng Chiang, The Green Death, The Seeds of Death, Inferno) tend to bore me during those middle-chapter draggy bits. I especially hate it when the episode's characters suspect the Doctor of causing whatever problem is happening, grow to trust him, start to suspect him again, try to kill him, trust him again, try to kill him again, etc.
Seriously - every time I blog about a story, I have to come up with a new way to say "it's a big longer than it needs to be". And I'm only on the second Hartnell season. I think in the three episodes of An Unearthly Child, they get captured and imprisoned at least twice. It's maddening to spend an entire episode watching them escape, only for them to get caught again and start the whole thing over next episode. It's like playing a video game and getting stuck on a level you just can't win.
A new Sixth Doctor Big Finish story, Voyage to Venus, which co-stars the characters of Jago and Litefoot from the 4th Doctor story The Talons of Weng-Chiang (as well as their own spin-off Big Finish series) is available for download directly from BF for $1 (£1 for the Brits... don't know what it's cheaper for us, but I'm not gonna question it. USA! USA!), or you can order the CD for like $8.
Haven't heard a lot of the BF stories (there are SO MANY, and I got started late because the CDs were so expensive), but the ones I have heard are quite good, and Colin Baker is widely regarded as the best of the audio Doctors. And it's a buck. So, you know, get on that.
Listened to Voyage to Venus the other day and I can confirm that it is well worth your dollar. Looks like the follow-up in December will be similarly bargain-priced (or at least is as a pre-order).
So much awesome in here. Like getting another appearance by Madame Vastra and Jenny isn't great enough, we get Strax, too? Woohoo! I really hope that moon thing carries over into the episode itself.
Downloaded another 6th Doctor audio from Big Finish last night, "Doctor Who and the Pirates (or, The Lass Who Lost a Sailor)." It. Is. Awesome. I'll never look at Gilbert and Sullivan in the same way again (and that's a good thing, because I typically kinda hate G&S).
Also pre-ordered the next 6th Doctor/Jago & Litefoot crossover special episode, due later this month, since the first one was a lot of fun and this one (like the first) is only $1 to download.
And if you think one of the voices in that teaser sounds a lot like Gandalf and Magneto, you'd be right.
I read that the other day! Sir Ian McKellan is one hell of a get! I'm still not used to Doctor Who having things like decent budgets and guest stars who are still famous. I feel so spoiled.
Comments
With the hour format, if the plot requires more time, there can be a 2 parter (and some of the two parters are flabby.)
Makes me wonder if a competent editor couldnt go back an distill a few of the old serials that still impact the current storylines.
*edit*
just realized this was talked about in the latest episode
Season 17, though, will always be viewed as a failure by me. By that point, Baker had chased away two perfectly good actresses and was clowning around enough that it seemed as if he didn't care anymore. I don't think the show needs to take itself too seriously, but Baker's attitude was detrimental at that point.
And, yes, LibraryBoy, Destiny of the Daleks is the one that gives us the Rick James aliens.
On the other hand, I find that I'm much more invested in the the supporting cast when we get a chance to spend time with them. I can't recall characters from last season, but there are ones from the classic era the will spring back to mind just by hearing an episode title. So, it has some pluses, but not enough that I would ever want to see them go back to it.
And to be fair, Baker's messy divorce from Lalla Ward and the shrinking budget, K9 and other stuff did make him want to quit. He was butting heads with the directors and producers to the point of screaming matches and delaying production.
At the end he still owned the role but the heart (hearts?) was gone.
I generally don’t have too much of a problem with the six-parters, but my patience wears thin when they resort to the whole “captured, escaping, then getting re-captured” trick of dragging things out. As I work my way through the Hartnell era, the historical stories are particularly bad about this, so that may be coloring my view of six-part stories in general.
http://www.rpsteeves.com/2012/10/why-i-did-not-love-ponds-sendoff-on.html
- what I want to know is if the ponds made a fixed point in time in 1938, then why can't the doctor pick them up in 1939? If the doctor can't interfere with the pond's time line then that means he can't return to New York till 1998 based on the age of Amy on the grave stone.
_ can't river use her time travel device to remove her parents, Like Captain Jack did when chasing the Master with Tennant? If she can't travel back due to the threat for destroying New York then she can't write the book that starts the episode. This would cause a paradox causing this episode to disappear into the void where it belongs.
@chrisw I agree. Thanks for explaining. I have trouble with them too for the most part. Some 4 parters have that third ep drag also. Look, corridors we must run thru!!!
P.S.
http://www.rpsteeves.com/2012/10/doctor-who-musings-rating-modern.html
Haven't heard a lot of the BF stories (there are SO MANY, and I got started late because the CDs were so expensive), but the ones I have heard are quite good, and Colin Baker is widely regarded as the best of the audio Doctors. And it's a buck. So, you know, get on that.
(otologist....get it?.... :))
http://www.rpsteeves.com/2012/10/doctor-who-more-star-wars-than-star-trek.html
Christmas Special Prequel Minisode!
And the trailer!
So much awesome in here. Like getting another appearance by Madame Vastra and Jenny isn't great enough, we get Strax, too? Woohoo! I really hope that moon thing carries over into the episode itself.
article comes with a little bit of info on X-mas Who including a pic
Also pre-ordered the next 6th Doctor/Jago & Litefoot crossover special episode, due later this month, since the first one was a lot of fun and this one (like the first) is only $1 to download.
And if you think one of the voices in that teaser sounds a lot like Gandalf and Magneto, you'd be right.
ENOUGH WITH THE KISSING THE DOCTOR!