All I'm going to say about illegal immigration is that without it, the U.S. agriculture industry would've completely imploded back in the '80s. And even during the lowest point of the current recession, few Americans wanted those jobs.
Absolutely true.
Still "illegal"
Yes, just pointing out that the majority of the people yelling to kick out all illegals have no idea how important a role they play in our economy. It's not like they aren't paying taxes either. Last study I saw states they pay $11.8 billion in state and local taxes. We should be less concerned with keeping them out and more concerned with simplifying the process for them to enter legally (and the process for removing the bad eggs).
I don't think anyone is yelling "kick out all illegals," but as Juan Francisco Lopez-Sanchez, the illegal immigrant who is charged with killing Kathryn Steinle, has shown - there needs to be a better deportation and strict barriers to convicted felons repeatedly getting over the border and being protected by a sanctuary city like San Francisco. There is a lot to reform, and apparently that includes hearts and minds which have been manipulated on both sides of the aisle. I'm not certain that merely "simplifying the process" as you suggest is the elixir many insist.
And that $11.8B figure about taxes paid by illegal immigrants comes from a report issued by the left-leaning Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy which uses a very broad estimate, based on assumptions about the number of immigrants, the average size of immigrant families, the range of income of immigrant workers, the number of homeowners and effective tax rates. A change in any one of those assumptions would alter the result. However, it is frequently cited by those using it to fit their narrative.
For New York, for example, that report estimated that in 2012 there were 873,000 illegal immigrants, with an average family income of $32,600. Eighteen percent were estimated to be homeowners. They supposedly paid $566 million in sales and excise taxes, $186 million in state and local income taxes, and $342 million in property taxes, for a total of more than $1 billion. (Note that more than 50 percent of the figure comes from sales taxes, which every person pays just anytime something is purchased.)
But the most important aspect of the report is that it looks at state, local and property taxes paid by immigrants — not federal taxes. Are you aware that a large portion of illegal immigrants are actually going to receive social security back-payments even though they have paid nothing towards that program? How can that be? Are you suggesting we legalize them all so we can collect more federal taxes from them? Otherwise, all this 11.8B estimate tells us is there are a LOT of people here illegally - also not good. In the area of reform, there is plenty of room for all sorts of reform to go around, and no one is going to happily accept those changes, not the GOP, not the Dems, and not La Raza for sure.
but ... there needs to be a better deportation and strict barriers to convicted felons repeatedly getting over the border and being protected by a sanctuary city like San Francisco. There is a lot to reform, and apparently that includes hearts and minds which have been manipulated on both sides of the aisle. I'm not certain that merely "simplifying the process" as you suggest is the elixir many insist.
I agree with that. Simplifying the process wouldn't be a cure-all, but it would be a big step in the right direction. I think the vast majority of illegal immigrants would much rather come over legally, not to mention safely. The current process is a deterrent to that.
And that $11.8B figure about taxes paid by illegal immigrants comes from a report issued by the left-leaning Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy which uses a very broad estimate, based on assumptions about the number of immigrants, the average size of immigrant families, the range of income of immigrant workers, the number of homeowners and effective tax rates. A change in any one of those assumptions would alter the result.
Be that as it may, even if the numbers are exaggerated, illegal immigrants do make a profound impact within the US economy.
Are you aware that a large portion of illegal immigrants are actually going to receive social security back-payments even though they have paid nothing towards that program? How can that be? Are you suggesting we legalize them all so we can collect more federal taxes from them?
Yes, I am aware. And I don't think they should get back refunds unless they were paying in. But I do think they should be given the opportunity—in a timely, efficient manner—to earn legal status and earn Social Security benefits going forward.
In the area of reform, there is plenty of room for all sorts of reform to go around
There certainly is. But I think the only way to get it done in a way that best helps the country is to focus on the benefits it can bring to our society rather than on the alarmists and their divisive rhetoric.
I think the only way to get it done in a way that best helps the country is to focus on the benefits it can bring to our society rather than on the alarmists and their divisive rhetoric.
I think we should focus on the harm and the benefits to better move forward with certainty - but I am very glad we can have a discussion about it where we mildly disagree without resorting to divisive rhetoric or pie in the sky idealism.
I think the only way to get it done in a way that best helps the country is to focus on the benefits it can bring to our society rather than on the alarmists and their divisive rhetoric.
I think we should focus on the harm and the benefits to better move forward with certainty - but I am very glad we can have a discussion about it where we mildly disagree without resorting to divisive rhetoric or pie in the sky idealism.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying we should ignore the negatives, but that way leads too quickly to divisiveness. By acknowledging and focusing on the positives first and foremost, things can more easily move in the right direction and pave the way for a more meaningful discussion of the negatives and how to fix them.
All I'm going to say about illegal immigration is that without it, the U.S. agriculture industry would've completely imploded back in the '80s. And even during the lowest point of the current recession, few Americans wanted those jobs.
Which speaks volumes about the character of most Americans.
All I'm going to say about illegal immigration is that without it, the U.S. agriculture industry would've completely imploded back in the '80s. And even during the lowest point of the current recession, few Americans wanted those jobs.
Which speaks volumes about the character of most Americans.
Not necessarily. To be fair, I worked in the fields a couple of summers as a kid picking cucumbers, and it totally sucked. Little money for a lot of hard work. I'd rather work in fast food than do that again. When I was a kid there were only so many jobs you could get, but I was much happier and wealthier cutting grass.
Plus, it's seasonal. If you're looking to support a family, you need to be spending that time looking for a full-time, year-round job. Trust me, looking for a full-time job can be a full-time job.
All I'm going to say about illegal immigration is that without it, the U.S. agriculture industry would've completely imploded back in the '80s. And even during the lowest point of the current recession, few Americans wanted those jobs.
Which speaks volumes about the character of most Americans.
Not necessarily. To be fair, I worked in the fields a couple of summers as a kid picking cucumbers, and it totally sucked. Little money for a lot of hard work. I'd rather work in fast food than do that again. When I was a kid there were only so many jobs you could get, but I was much happier and wealthier cutting grass.
Plus, it's seasonal. If you're looking to support a family, you need to be spending that time looking for a full-time, year-round job. Trust me, looking for a full-time job can be a full-time job.
No one is saying that seasonal AG jobs are a career or a means to support a family. However, they are opportunities for students and those looking for better employment to make some money.
All I'm going to say about illegal immigration is that without it, the U.S. agriculture industry would've completely imploded back in the '80s. And even during the lowest point of the current recession, few Americans wanted those jobs.
Which speaks volumes about the character of most Americans.
Not necessarily. To be fair, I worked in the fields a couple of summers as a kid picking cucumbers, and it totally sucked. Little money for a lot of hard work. I'd rather work in fast food than do that again. When I was a kid there were only so many jobs you could get, but I was much happier and wealthier cutting grass.
Plus, it's seasonal. If you're looking to support a family, you need to be spending that time looking for a full-time, year-round job. Trust me, looking for a full-time job can be a full-time job.
No one is saying that seasonal AG jobs are a career or a means to support a family. However, they are opportunities for students and those looking for better employment to make some money.
I'm not looking to get into an argument. All I'm saying is that having worked in a field, I'm not anxious to do it again. In fact, I would have to be in pretty dire straits before I even entertained the idea of it. I'd do any number of menial jobs before picking cucumbers or anything like it again, so I'm not going to disparage the character of most Americans for feeling the same way.
To be fair, the organization that runs the sourced website is known as the American Immigration Council, a non-profit organization that is a prominent member of the open-borders lobby which doesn't concern itself about the possibility of the labor market being flooded, overwhelmed services, or crime because it advocates exclusively for expanded rights and amnesty for illegal aliens residing in the U.S.
I could probably quote Trump's own website for an equally reasonable argument that offers a counter-point, but there's little point. They're both going to be biased. Here's an unbiased symposium discussion worth checking out for a clearer picture of several ideas on the subject:
This will be my last reply to the immigration mess. For all intents and purposes, illegals are in the US because "we" (voters) invited them. We invited them by continually re-electing the same idiots who promise that they'll give us a head of lettuce for as cheap as possible. These are the same idiots who have turned a blind eye to the border to secure cheap labor for those that contribute to their campaigns and votes to keep them in office. We are to blame for this and we'll continue to do nothing but bitch about it as long as we continue to get cheap lettuce.
I don't drink a lot of soda, but I got a Coke Zero in my travels yesterday.
How much of it am I supposed to share with "Dwayne"? Does he get half? It seems unhygienic.
Judging by the trailer... uh, I mean commercials, you're supposed to give Dwayne a separate Coke Zero that says "David," but maybe I'm reading too much into the trai--I mean, commercial.
(Because no one around here ever takes a trailer, I mean commercial, too seriously.)
Most people understand that being an American citizen is a privledge, it is not a right.
It's a very odd paradox that in most countries you'll be sent to prison for sneaking across their border. But in America, you can get food stamps, social security refunds, a free education, a driver's license, free healthcare, and affordable housing - all paid for by American citizens and the immigrants that bothered to follow the proper procedures to become a citizen. It shouldn't be an easy process. And if anyone dares to question that, they are vilified, mocked, ridiculed and called names - usually by those that consider themselves "progressive" and "tolerant".
I am currently hunting for a seafood market in Tallahassee, Florida that sells lionfish meat. Ive read to much about how awesome it is. I want couple of pounds of fillets to go nuts with.
I am currently hunting for a seafood market in Tallahassee, Florida that sells lionfish meat. Ive read to much about how awesome it is. I want couple of pounds of fillets to go nuts with.
I've read that it makes good sushi. I've never tried it though, and I've eaten lots of different fish.
Comments
Just sayin'.
And that $11.8B figure about taxes paid by illegal immigrants comes from a report issued by the left-leaning Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy which uses a very broad estimate, based on assumptions about the number of immigrants, the average size of immigrant families, the range of income of immigrant workers, the number of homeowners and effective tax rates. A change in any one of those assumptions would alter the result. However, it is frequently cited by those using it to fit their narrative.
For New York, for example, that report estimated that in 2012 there were 873,000 illegal immigrants, with an average family income of $32,600. Eighteen percent were estimated to be homeowners. They supposedly paid $566 million in sales and excise taxes, $186 million in state and local income taxes, and $342 million in property taxes, for a total of more than $1 billion. (Note that more than 50 percent of the figure comes from sales taxes, which every person pays just anytime something is purchased.)
But the most important aspect of the report is that it looks at state, local and property taxes paid by immigrants — not federal taxes. Are you aware that a large portion of illegal immigrants are actually going to receive social security back-payments even though they have paid nothing towards that program? How can that be? Are you suggesting we legalize them all so we can collect more federal taxes from them? Otherwise, all this 11.8B estimate tells us is there are a LOT of people here illegally - also not good. In the area of reform, there is plenty of room for all sorts of reform to go around, and no one is going to happily accept those changes, not the GOP, not the Dems, and not La Raza for sure.
Remember when banners were allowed?
Plus, it's seasonal. If you're looking to support a family, you need to be spending that time looking for a full-time, year-round job. Trust me, looking for a full-time job can be a full-time job.
(Desperate attempt to put the random back in the random thread)
No, who won?
Didn't get to see it because I was traveling. Don't spoil it for me.
Oooooohhhh.
Never mind.
I could probably quote Trump's own website for an equally reasonable argument that offers a counter-point, but there's little point. They're both going to be biased. Here's an unbiased symposium discussion worth checking out for a clearer picture of several ideas on the subject:
http://www.independent.org/events/transcript.asp?id=110
For all intents and purposes, illegals are in the US because "we" (voters) invited them. We invited them by continually re-electing the same idiots who promise that they'll give us a head of lettuce for as cheap as possible. These are the same idiots who have turned a blind eye to the border to secure cheap labor for those that contribute to their campaigns and votes to keep them in office. We are to blame for this and we'll continue to do nothing but bitch about it as long as we continue to get cheap lettuce.
How much of it am I supposed to share with this "Dwayne"? Does he get half? Will he find me? It seems unhygienic.
(Because no one around here ever takes a trailer, I mean commercial, too seriously.)
Most people understand that being an American citizen is a privledge, it is not a right.
It's a very odd paradox that in most countries you'll be sent to prison for sneaking across their border. But in America, you can get food stamps, social security refunds, a free education, a driver's license, free healthcare, and affordable housing - all paid for by American citizens and the immigrants that bothered to follow the proper procedures to become a citizen. It shouldn't be an easy process. And if anyone dares to question that, they are vilified, mocked, ridiculed and called names - usually by those that consider themselves "progressive" and "tolerant".
It's quite fascinating.
Remember that time they had a banner on the CGS forums.