Well, not being born earlier today, like most DC heroes and their new fans, I can remember Craig Kilborn.
I remember Craig Kilborn, but I have no idea what you're referring to.
Well, clearly you don't. He had a bit called the 5 questions on his Late, Late Show in which he asked guests an obviously subjective question in which the correct answer was Craig's opinion. It often revealed that guests were lying when they said they had seen the show or watched it regularly because if they did then they'd know the bit and know the correct answer.
I see. When we're talking to you, we should be pretending to be on the Craig Kilborne show.
You're right-- that should have been obvious.
That's because he IS Craig Kilborne. And he's eating Chili.
Torchsong gets it. To me this revamp was totally unnecessary, and to add insult to injury, it's not even evenly applied. Aquaman is really the same old character and taken seriously. He's got a good creative team behind him. Green Arrow now is just terrible, and an insult not only to Mike Grell, but to Green Arrrow fans. Okay, here's a question for you should fans be rewarded for their loyalty to a character even if the copyright owner wants to make drastic change? Would you accept a Sherlock Holmes who was a lesbian truck driver from New Jersey who was not a detective? Is that still Sherlock Holmes? I would say NO.
But here's the context-- Green Arrow fans were saying the exact same things you are, and making these same complaints ABOUT the Mike Grell era. I am old enough to not only remember Craig Kilborne, but also to remember that the "trick arrow vs. sharp arrow" debate raged in the letter columns of Grell's Green Arrow series for years. That was a drastic change. And one for the better, in my opinion, since I think the Grell era is the best that character has been. At least, for me. But to some of the old time fans of Green Arrow at that time, to take away his boxing glove arrows, and put him in a gritty mature readers title WAS to take away Spock's pointy ears. But, in that case, I personally think it worked out, and Green Arrow got to be relevant to a readership of that time.
Now the latest new version of Green Arrow, to judge by the first two issues, was terrible. But that happens. But he wasn't terrible because he had been one way forever and now changed for the first time. Rather, it was terrible, to me, because the changes this time around weren't good ones. Or, at least, weren't the ones I was interested in.
But these are decades-old funnybook characters. Some are going on a century. Should we complain that Captain America isn't still chasing down Japanese spies? Or that Superman doesn't play pranks on Lois and juggle planets while Jimmy cross-dresses? Things change. Sometimes that change succeeds, often it doesn't. But these characters don't actually belong to any current fan, no matter how vocal or loyal.
I think part of the debate was the embrace of violence that was not part of the character previously, and not previously portrayed as a virtue either. It used to be a standard, "WE DON'T KILL." Not anymore. The demise of the comic code authority, though welcomed for many reasons, saw an increase in blood and gore. Both Batman and Green Arrow now had weapons that were razor sharp, batarangs cut through a bad guys hands, arrows went through the bad guy. Some saw this as making the character more mature and real for a "more sophisticated," audience. Some didn't. I don't think it improved the writing a great deal. There was less detective work and more bloody fighting.
Batman has sucked ever since he stopped shooting people in 1940.
Wet behind the ears? Seriously? Look, if you're going to start throwing insults, make them funny. I know this is supposed to be a friendly board, but sometimes those flame wars where someone brings out the really funny insults are so much fun. But the key is that is has to be funny. If it's funny, you can get away with being obnoxious. Please work on that. I'm not sure if you have it in you to be funny, but for the sake of the children, please try.
Prior to the New 52, I was reading zero comics each month. Now, I'm reading 13 titles, with four more to be added with the next wave. DC can count me as a success.
It has been a somewhat sucess with me. Before the New 52,outside of Fables,I wasn't reading any current DC titles. Now I am buying 3 titles monthly and 4 in trades. And it has been a huge hit with my oldest son. Before he was reading no new DC titles,but now he has taken advantage of the DCBS deal and gotten every issue for the first 6 months and has told me there is at least 10 titles he plans on keeping up with after the DCBS deal is over.
Well, this is a lively topic. I wanted to put my two cents into this. I like what I've seen from the new 52. Has everything been great? No. I wish certain characters had not changed as much as they had but overall and for the most part, I have liked what the new 52 has brought us and I am interested in seeing what else it has to offer. Do I miss what's come before? Sure. That's why I still own by back issues. Would I mind if somehow the older stuff was brought back? A little but not overly so to the point where I wouldn't read DC. I love the characters and I for the most part trust the creators that they will do right by these characters. Not everything has been my cup of tea but the stuff I'm reading, I'm loving and that's enough for me.
I just saw a t-shirt tonight with your avatar on it Jaydee. Gonna have to get it for my Uncle for father's day this year. Since he is the one that got me into Science fiction.
Do we have an "Ignore User" function yet? Just askin'.
Then he really would be like Kilborne bazing
I've decided to model my online personality after another largely-forgotten comedy great.
You can call me WetRats, or you can call me Swatter, or you can call me Art West, you can even call me J. Jonah Jameson, but you doesn't have to call me Stewart!
For me I'd say it was a success... I mean, clearly it was a success for DC, 2011 was a definate 'KA-CHING' year for them.
That aside, it did give me a 'jump on' point for many titles I was not reading before. I've descovered some new books and characters that I'm starting to like, and for me, DC is 'fresh' again.
That said, it's all very confusing isnt it..I mean, I dont know what's 'canon' now in the pre-52 boot universe and what isnt anymore. this is where the problem lies, not only for me, but for future DC writers. There's a lot of 'murk' in DC's past and it all comes down to the original Crisis. Every reboot makes things just that little less clear than before.
Unfortunately, this is DC's cross which we all have to bare now. They did the 'big event' to end all 'big events' back in 1985.... so how do you top that? You dont, you just kinda do it again and again and again and this 'new 52' wont be the last time it happens either, no matter what DC might say. They've gotten themselves into a position where they will now always have to reboot every few years.
So my advice is just go with it. Find the books you like, drop the books you dont. If you dont like the new Green Arrow etc....just read the old one. Odd's are that it'll get rebooted back to the 'classic' design' in time anyway.
I know Marvel is hinting at a big 'shake up' of their universe in a few months post AvX, I really hope they've observed that although reboots can be a cash cow for a few months, the risk of damaging the Marvel Universe's history might not be the best idea going forward. I always thought that their 'reboots' in offshoot branding like the 'Ultimate' universe was the best way to go. It keeps all the fans happy, new and old.
I would say success. I didn't buy a single comic book in about 8 years prior to the 52 relaunch. Now I'm back in full force. It got me excited about comics again. Sure, some people hate it but most of those people aren't happy unless they are complaining it seems or take the subject of superheros way too seriously.
I'm glad they got an infusion of new readers but seems to st the expense of their old ones who are their bread and butter. New readers are great but how many of them will become "old" longtime fans? I don't imagine many. Ultimately they'll have to switch back in a big to-do event way of course to bring back their flock. But how loyal and interested will we old guys be by then?
I think this was a ballsy move on DC's part and I think for the most part, it has paid off in a nice way. Not everything was successful but your deluding yourself if you think they were going to hit the mark every single time but look at what has been successful. Aquaman #6 outsold a whole bunch of Marvel books that came out the same month. AQUAMAN! Let that sink in for a bit. I think DC has done very well for themselves overall.
I'm glad they got an infusion of new readers but seems to st the expense of their old ones who are their bread and butter. New readers are great but how many of them will become "old" longtime fans? I don't imagine many. Ultimately they'll have to switch back in a big to-do event way of course to bring back their flock. But how loyal and interested will we old guys be by then?
Well, back before the relaunch the bread and butter numbers had been trending down for years. At that rate, eventually there was not going to be enough bread and butter in the pantry to...
You know what, I am going to abandon that metaphor. Anyway, you know what I mean-- before the relaunch, the print business at DC was in trouble. People can disagree about whether they had to do what they did, but I think it is clear they had to do SOMETHING.
Now, of course, as with anything, once you have the interest of a reader- be they old fan, the new fan, or the lapsed fan with a renewed interest- you have to succeed in keeping that attention. But that is true of all periodicals. Heck, that was true back before the relaunch, and if the numbers are to be believed, they were having trouble sustaining the interest of whoever the readers where at that time. Now, at least, in the fight to maintain interest and loyalty, they have got the chance to start out at higher numbers from which to drop.
Well, back before the relaunch the bread and butter numbers had been trending down for years. At that rate, eventually there was not going to be enough bread and butter in the pantry to...
You know what, I am going to abandon that metaphor.
Well, back before the relaunch the bread and butter numbers had been trending down for years. At that rate, eventually there was not going to be enough bread and butter in the pantry to...
You know what, I am going to abandon that metaphor.
Good. I was getting hungry.
I must be, too. I just talked about menus and cake in another post.
Internationally speaking, it's too soon to report on DC's new 52. The non-English speaking comic geeks are aware of the upcoming changes though. The European forums are full of discussions regarding the "revamp". The overall tone is exactly as it was throughout the English speaking world. Guess comic geeks are the same creatures wherever they live.
The German speaking part of DC disciples will get to read the first round of (translated) #1's on June 12. (The Flashpoint thingy ends on May 22). Panini Comics started advertising this event in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. I understand that the French and Italian versions are released around the same time.
Looking forward to the reactions throughout Europe.
It's the same old story brought into a tighter focus. Enough Bat titles (Batman centric there's now 5) to choke a pig compared to the 2 Superman centric titles shows you where their faith is, blundered Green Lantern titles because they thought the film would be their Iron Man and the out laying books that people love is where most of the creativity is.
Personally I am ecstatic that Batman (the book) is as good as it is as a lapsed fan it's great to be reading him again. But I am waiting for Animal Man and Swamp Thing to go the way of Mister Terrific.
It was a good move, did well, give it a year and it'll all be back to normal business wise. They won't go back pre Flashpoint though, anyone who thinks that is deluded.
Seriously believe theyll never return to the old numbering!? the new dcu is just another gimick. When the time comes for another one (and it will) that next "big thing" will be returning to the status quo. Besides, no loving God in this or any universe would allow these character/costume designs to stick around for too long.
Answers
bazing
You can call me WetRats, or you can call me Swatter, or you can call me Art West, you can even call me J. Jonah Jameson, but you doesn't have to call me Stewart!
That aside, it did give me a 'jump on' point for many titles I was not reading before. I've descovered some new books and characters that I'm starting to like, and for me, DC is 'fresh' again.
That said, it's all very confusing isnt it..I mean, I dont know what's 'canon' now in the pre-52 boot universe and what isnt anymore. this is where the problem lies, not only for me, but for future DC writers. There's a lot of 'murk' in DC's past and it all comes down to the original Crisis. Every reboot makes things just that little less clear than before.
Unfortunately, this is DC's cross which we all have to bare now. They did the 'big event' to end all 'big events' back in 1985.... so how do you top that? You dont, you just kinda do it again and again and again and this 'new 52' wont be the last time it happens either, no matter what DC might say. They've gotten themselves into a position where they will now always have to reboot every few years.
So my advice is just go with it. Find the books you like, drop the books you dont. If you dont like the new Green Arrow etc....just read the old one. Odd's are that it'll get rebooted back to the 'classic' design' in time anyway.
I know Marvel is hinting at a big 'shake up' of their universe in a few months post AvX, I really hope they've observed that although reboots can be a cash cow for a few months, the risk of damaging the Marvel Universe's history might not be the best idea going forward. I always thought that their 'reboots' in offshoot branding like the 'Ultimate' universe was the best way to go. It keeps all the fans happy, new and old.
You know what, I am going to abandon that metaphor. Anyway, you know what I mean-- before the relaunch, the print business at DC was in trouble. People can disagree about whether they had to do what they did, but I think it is clear they had to do SOMETHING.
Now, of course, as with anything, once you have the interest of a reader- be they old fan, the new fan, or the lapsed fan with a renewed interest- you have to succeed in keeping that attention. But that is true of all periodicals. Heck, that was true back before the relaunch, and if the numbers are to be believed, they were having trouble sustaining the interest of whoever the readers where at that time. Now, at least, in the fight to maintain interest and loyalty, they have got the chance to start out at higher numbers from which to drop.
The German speaking part of DC disciples will get to read the first round of (translated) #1's on June 12. (The Flashpoint thingy ends on May 22). Panini Comics started advertising this event in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. I understand that the French and Italian versions are released around the same time.
Looking forward to the reactions throughout Europe.
Personally I am ecstatic that Batman (the book) is as good as it is as a lapsed fan it's great to be reading him again. But I am waiting for Animal Man and Swamp Thing to go the way of Mister Terrific.
It was a good move, did well, give it a year and it'll all be back to normal business wise. They won't go back pre Flashpoint though, anyone who thinks that is deluded.