The new 52 killed my reading of DC, they're -8 comics sales. So for me it's a failure. Pity as I've followed some charters over 30 years, but they're great if you you want a jumping on point (and that was the idea)
Seriously believe theyll never return to the old numbering!? the new dcu is just another gimick. When the time comes for another one (and it will) that next "big thing" will be returning to the status quo. Besides, no loving God in this or any universe would allow these character/costume designs to stick around for too long.
I don't think they will be going back to the "old" status quo. DC might change the numbering, but it won't be a return to the old DC. Costume changes are just costume changes. Numbers and costumes are just superficial changes. Superman has a dumb look, so what he was blue/red once opun a time. That look didn't stick, but when he changed back he didn't revert to Precrisis or Byrne Superman. The new DCU is going to stick for a while. Might as well get used to it.
As for it being success. So far it's worked well; it's hard to argue the shortterm results. It will be a few years before we see if the New52 is a complete win. For me I went from buying just DC events and the Flash to ordering a ton of these trades. So they are getting way more of my money than they did before.
I think they got enough short term hype and rewards it was worth it. But I also think it was probably a long term split of 50/50 success and failure. Its not like completely new lead characters books came out and where smashing success's. Even though Aquaman has been great and doing well, its not all new really. I've enjoyed seeing how the new 52 progresses.
I don't see them going back, at least not anytime soon. To do so means admitting defeat, and I really don't feel they're feeling "defeated" about this at all. Not to mention you have people excited about characters like Aquaman and Wonder Woman, who've always been niche-market at best (except maybe when Perez was on Wonder Woman's book).
Then you have things where the change has been for the better, like Supergirl. All respect to Gates and Igle's run from the past decade, but I don't think anyone knew what to do with Kara once they brought her back. But I *LOVE* the New 52 version of her. Decidedly different, and not just Superman's girly-girl cousin.
So if going back means scrapping what advances they HAVE made? Well, I'm hoping not...
I don't see them going back, at least not anytime soon. To do so means admitting defeat, and I really don't feel they're feeling "defeated" about this at all. Not to mention you have people excited about characters like Aquaman and Wonder Woman, who've always been niche-market at best (except maybe when Perez was on Wonder Woman's book).
Then you have things where the change has been for the better, like Supergirl. All respect to Gates and Igle's run from the past decade, but I don't think anyone knew what to do with Kara once they brought her back. But I *LOVE* the New 52 version of her. Decidedly different, and not just Superman's girly-girl cousin.
So if going back means scrapping what advances they HAVE made? Well, I'm hoping not...
I agree with you, Torchsong.
And I, too, love this New Supergirl. Heck, I even like the new Superboy.
So in the end, while I don't agree with all (or even most) of DC's decisions, I don't want them to go back on it.
And to answer the original question of this thread (again), just because I don't agree with everything doesn't make this new 52 a failure or disaster.
Internationally speaking, it's too soon to report on DC's new 52. The non-English speaking comic geeks are aware of the upcoming changes though. The European forums are full of discussions regarding the "revamp". The overall tone is exactly as it was throughout the English speaking world. Guess comic geeks are the same creatures wherever they live.
The German speaking part of DC disciples will get to read the first round of (translated) #1's on June 12. (The Flashpoint thingy ends on May 22). Panini Comics started advertising this event in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. I understand that the French and Italian versions are released around the same time.
Looking forward to the reactions throughout Europe.
Your Europe correspondent reporting:
In Germany, Switzerland and Austria the newDC will be released as follows: (source: Panini Vorschau)
June 12 - BATMAN #1 will also include Detective Comics #1-2, pages 52, $6.50 - SUPERMAN #1 will also include Action Comics #1 and Supergirl #1, pages 60, $6.50 - GREEN LANTERN #1, will include Green Lantern Corps #1, pages 52, $6.50 - FLASH #1, contains The Flash #1-4, pages 100 (trade), $17
June 26 - JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 will include Teen Titans #1, pages 52, $6.50 - BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 will include Nightwing #1, pages 52, $6.50 - AQUAMAN #1, contains Aquaman #1-6, pages 132 (trade), $19.50 -BATGIRL #1, contains Batgirl #1-6, pages 132 (trade), $19.50 - CATWOMAN #1, contains Catwoman #1-6, pages 132 (trade), $19.50 -JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 contains Justice League Dark #1-7, pages 132 (trade), $19.50
Interesting:
Only 4 titles will be released monthly [Batman/Detective Comics], [Superman/Action Comics/Supergirl], [Green Lantern/Green Lantern Corps], [Justice League/Teen Titans]
Those 4 (main-)titles are not stand-alones. But released as interesting combos.
All other titles will be released as trades.
Animal Man + Swamp Thing will get their trades - but no release date yet.
Details on other titles not released yet.
Due to the way the new titles are being released, it's obvious that it's not called the new52....
I did the conversion Euro to Dollars per April 23,2012
I'd call it a success as far as my reading goes, although not an unqualified one. What's been most successful is digital with the dollar drop rather than the titles. I'm reading slightly more DC and enjoying the titles I'm reading. However I've also dropped a few titles that I used to read (entire GL family included).
No one wants the return of Red Superman and Blue Superman, right?
In all seriousness, I would totally buy "The return of Red Superman and Blue Superman".
I don't have much to add to this conversation in respect to success or failure. DC amounts to about 10% of my comic purchases for the month. The amount has remained the same before and after the New 52, although I admit, I did pick up a lot of new books that first month to check them out, but not much was added to my regular pull list. I miss the Pre-52 Booster Gold series, and the "replacement" JLI has been weak. However, I thought OMAC was awesome (but nobody else did, so it got cancelled).
There has been good and bad, but not much to dramatically increase my love (or dollars) for DC. Other then Kudos for trying to breathe new life into the Universe.
I love it. Way to go DC, and I hope Marvel tries the same thing.
Yes... Way to go DC! Marvel - don't you DARE screw with what you got going!
Haha! History repeats itself. Been reading old issues of amazing heroes about crisis on inf. earths from the 80's and what people are saying now They were saying the same thing back then. I'm glad they did it right this time and not half assed like in the '80's with some comic keeping the numbering going. Just do like me sit back and enjoy the comics coming out and promote them to kids so they can enjoy it!!
The whole point to the New 52 is an attempt to "restore the characters and bring them back to their roots"
What YOU don't seem to grasp, or don't want to, is that YOUR perception of the character is not the only valid one.
There are plenty of choices made in the New 52 that I don't like, but my disliking them does nothing to change the fact that overall, it HAS BEEN A SUCCESS.
Nor does YOUR disliking them.
The whole point to the New 52 was NOT to "restore the characters and bring them back to their roots"... it was to make them "fresh" and "relevant" and "appealing to a younger audience". Quite a different thing.
Maybe a better question would be "Has DC succeeded in ITS goals for the New 52?" Maybe. Do I like it? Not really... the best of the lot, in my opinion, are Swamp Thing and Animal Man, but I've read better. I think as a whole, the New 52 comes across as Poochy the Dog from the Simpsons.
It obviously didn't win over some of the older fans, like myself and JSA4me and others. However, JSA4me, much of the snappy comments you're on the business end of, right now, are due to your "you're all wrong" attitude. This is a really great forum, and we typically don't respond to anyone that harshly, bur you were asking for it, I'm afraid. Maybe lighten up a little, with a more objective approach. If this had been the Bleeding Cool forums, they would have burned your house down.
Posting to the "whiner" thread seems like a harsh suggestion, but maybe there's something to that.
The whole point to the New 52 was NOT to "restore the characters and bring them back to their roots"... it was to make them "fresh" and "relevant" and "appealing to a younger audience". Quite a different thing.
Maybe a better question would be "Has DC succeeded in ITS goals for the New 52?" Maybe. Do I like it? Not really... the best of the lot, in my opinion, are Swamp Thing and Animal Man, but I've read better. I think as a whole, the New 52 comes across as Poochy the Dog from the Simpsons.
It obviously didn't win over some of the older fans, like myself and JSA4me and others. However, JSA4me, much of the snappy comments you're on the business end of, right now, are due to your "you're all wrong" attitude. This is a really great forum, and we typically don't respond to anyone that harshly, bur you were asking for it, I'm afraid. Maybe lighten up a little, with a more objective approach. If this had been the Bleeding Cool forums, they would have burned your house down.
Posting to the "whiner" thread seems like a harsh suggestion, but maybe there's something to that.
Both Johns and Morrison, who seem to be the primary creative architects of the New52 have repeatedly used variations on the "restore the characters and bring them back to their roots" language, but yes, you're right, the official press releases tended to use the "fresh" and "relevant" and "appealing to a younger audience" language. My mistake.
I'm an older fan, too, and while I like slightly more of the DCnU than I did of the last few years of the DCoU, I'm certainly not fond of it as a whole, as I'm not fond of the direction of mainstream comics overall. But my, or your, or @JSA4me's, personal disliking of it doesn't make it a "predictable total disaster."
And yes, bringing up the Whining Tread was harsh, but I was frustrated with the "you're all wrong" attitude... and the old Whining Thread was hilarious.
Financially, it was a massive success. DC has dominated the sales charts, there is anecdotal evidence of new readers being brought into the fold, it appears as if the sales drops that have been happening since 2007-8 have been arrested. Also, On DC's end, they have revamped how they create comics on the editorial end, brought in new editors and made their corporate parent happy.
For ME, however, I have found I care much less for the work they put out. It feels like 90's Marvel. With a few exceptions, they read like editorially driven product, rather than stories people want to tell. They've gotten rid of the "generational" aspect that was the emotional heart of the DC Universe to me, and I understand the older fans who felt that the post-Crisis DCU left them cold. I read the books by the creators I like, but I quickly gave up on the ones done by newer creators and I avoid like the plague the ones by 90's Marvel castoffs who were best known for scripting what the ditor told them to write.
For ME, however, I have found I care much less for the work they put out. It feels like 90's Marvel. With a few exceptions, they read like editorially driven product, rather than stories people want to tell. They've gotten rid of the "generational" aspect that was the emotional heart of the DC Universe to me, and I understand the older fans who felt that the post-Crisis DCU left them cold. I read the books by the creators I like, but I quickly gave up on the ones done by newer creators and I avoid like the plague the ones by 90's Marvel castoffs who were best known for scripting what the ditor told them to write.
The whole point to the New 52 was NOT to "restore the characters and bring them back to their roots"... it was to make them "fresh" and "relevant" and "appealing to a younger audience". Quite a different thing.
Maybe a better question would be "Has DC succeeded in ITS goals for the New 52?" Maybe. Do I like it? Not really... the best of the lot, in my opinion, are Swamp Thing and Animal Man, but I've read better. I think as a whole, the New 52 comes across as Poochy the Dog from the Simpsons.
It obviously didn't win over some of the older fans, like myself and JSA4me and others. However, JSA4me, much of the snappy comments you're on the business end of, right now, are due to your "you're all wrong" attitude. This is a really great forum, and we typically don't respond to anyone that harshly, bur you were asking for it, I'm afraid. Maybe lighten up a little, with a more objective approach. If this had been the Bleeding Cool forums, they would have burned your house down.
Posting to the "whiner" thread seems like a harsh suggestion, but maybe there's something to that.
Both Johns and Morrison, who seem to be the primary creative architects of the New52 have repeatedly used variations on the "restore the characters and bring them back to their roots" language, but yes, you're right, the official press releases tended to use the "fresh" and "relevant" and "appealing to a younger audience" language. My mistake.
I'm an older fan, too, and while I like slightly more of the DCnU than I did of the last few years of the DCoU, I'm certainly not fond of it as a whole, as I'm not fond of the direction of mainstream comics overall. But my, or your, or @JSA4me's, personal disliking of it doesn't make it a "predictable total disaster."
And yes, bringing up the Whining Tread was harsh, but I was frustrated with the "you're all wrong" attitude... and the old Whining Thread was hilarious.
I'll agree with you about the last few years of the DCoU... the DCnU is really sort of a lateral move, in my opinion. I lost my taste for DC pretty much when Didio took over, other than Wednesday Comics, 52 and a few other high spots. Very few, actually.
For ME, however, I have found I care much less for the work they put out. It feels like 90's Marvel. With a few exceptions, they read like editorially driven product, rather than stories people want to tell. They've gotten rid of the "generational" aspect that was the emotional heart of the DC Universe to me, and I understand the older fans who felt that the post-Crisis DCU left them cold. I read the books by the creators I like, but I quickly gave up on the ones done by newer creators and I avoid like the plague the ones by 90's Marvel castoffs who were best known for scripting what the ditor told them to write.
Yup. the editorial "influences" on these books appear so annoyingly obvious. It steals away from any positives there may be. For example, I cannot stand how everyone is drawn to look early twenties at oldest. Its clear that is not the artists choice by how aweful and silly half the characters look anymore.
from a marketing and financial standpoint, based on what i heard and saw...yeah, i'd say it was a success.
as far as luring in new readers, making the books (new)reader friendly? i doubt. i mean, the books are still basically written for trades! multi-issue (>3) issue arcs? multi-part crossovers between books? DC's back to where they were before the relaunch/soft-reboot or whatever hell you want to call it...and the books are dropping like flies, only to be replaced by new ones, in order to maintain the '52' aspect of it.
granted, Marvel also puts out a ton of books month in and month out, but DC separated itself from the pack for only a few months...and now it's practically status quo.
Big 2? please just put out more thought out, quality books rather than every half-assed idea that gets past editorial.
@demonbear : Agreed. But: Outside of the US of A most of the newDC is being released as trades from the get-go. And the "52"aspect doesn't even come up (see my previous post).
I wonder how much money the big 2 are making outside the States. Does anybody have the figures?
@john_steed: i don't have numbers of any sort. but you've got me thinking. still, i'd hazard a guess that the bulk of the market is still North America. unlike movies which could rebound from a so-so showing in the States by earning more internationally, i think the comic book market trends is dictated by YOU guys.
what's my point again? one that i was gonna make was the biggest impact in the long run this newDC will have is the day-and-date digital. long after Big BLue goes back to wearing the Reddies, after Wonder Woman's pants get ripped into shorts, yadda yadda, the Digital Evolution will be the most significant event to come out of the whateveryoucallthis...
It was obviously a huge sales success at first. And even though sales naturally decline month after month, I think it will be quite a while before someone says "We're back to where we were before." And even when/if that does happen, DC will still be ahead of where they would have been had they NOT done this.
Where the New 52 faltered was in terms of getting new readers. They got many lapsed readers but precious few new ones. I have heard a handful of anecdotes from people about how they know someone who started reading last September, but by and large the numbers just aren't there. A Nielson survey showed that only 5% of readers were new. I guess in this day and age even that is something to celebrate -- because when was the last time so "many" new readers came aboard? -- but in the big picture that number looks rather pathetic, especially since sales have declined far more than 5% since September.
I see the digital efforts as a mixed bag. On the one hand, as with the New 52 in general, I think that it's something DC basically HAD to try. But the numbers don't really show any huge amount of promise. Surveys show that most of the people downloading DC digitally are OLDER readers, which kinda destroys the idea that "digital is for kids with disposable income". Still, digital has to do SOME good for SOME people. It's an exciting option that DC seems to be trying for all its worth. But when DC brass come out and admit that digital sales are only around 2%-6% of physical, and that the numbers are NOT going up, then it kinda dulls the silver lining of "this is the future". Still, it is what it is and in 2012 that option NEEDS to be out there.
Lastly, personally, I definitely think the New 52 was a success. I'm reading Flash AND Wonder Woman regularly for the first time ever. I'm still excited about the Bat-books. I can't wait to read Animal Man and Swamp Thing in trade. I will say that the quality of these books doesn't match the heyday in the late '80s, but... I don't think mainstream superhero comics will ever get that good again anyway. And I think DC right now is in a better place than it's been in since... maybe the late '90s. I'm pleased.
I will say that the quality of these books doesn't match the heyday in the late '80s, but... I don't think mainstream superhero comics will ever get that good again anyway.
Yeah, dammit, I'm afraid you're right.
BTW: It's amusing that we still refer to part of what has become a niche hobby market as "mainstream".
Surveys show that most of the people downloading DC digitally are OLDER readers, which kinda destroys the idea that "digital is for kids with disposable income". Still, digital has to do SOME good for SOME people. It's an exciting option that DC seems to be trying for all its worth.
I'm one of those older readers who's definitely dipping his foot in the digital pool, and I've been really happy with it so far. And I really think the genie is out of the bottle now, and there's no way to put it back in. They just need to figure out the right method to draw people in. I don't know that $2.99 books are the answer (though I do pay it for Demon Knights, if for no other reason than to let DC know I want "more like this!").
Lastly, personally, I definitely think the New 52 was a success. I'm reading Flash AND Wonder Woman regularly for the first time ever. I'm still excited about the Bat-books. I can't wait to read Animal Man and Swamp Thing in trade. I will say that the quality of these books doesn't match the heyday in the late '80s, but... I don't think mainstream superhero comics will ever get that good again anyway. And I think DC right now is in a better place than it's been in since... maybe the late '90s. I'm pleased.
Emphasis mine. I've never been a regular Wonder Woman reader, but I absolutely love this take on her. The aforementioned Demon Knights is another example (I've never liked the Demon or Vandal Savage but they're great in this book). Legion is another book I get digitally, never read much of before, but am enjoying thoroughly.
Can you expand on "quality"? Are you talking artistic? Writing? Both? I've noticed I'm being blown away by what I'm reading in these books and that hasn't really happened since the late 80s. If anything, I'm seeing a return to form. I'm not as concerned about what superstar artist is creating this work as I am what's going to happen to the characters next. Which really is what a comic should be.
I consider it a success and I wish Marvel would do the same. I don't really read superhero comics anymore and when I did it was mostly Marvel. Now the few I read are mostly DC.
The thing I like about the New-52 the most is that they have all these diverse titles. It's not just Batman, Superman, Green Lantern. I'm reading Justice League Dark, Voodoo, Demon Knights. And at least with the titles I'm reading, there's no baggage.
I consider it a success and I wish Marvel would do the same. I don't really read superhero comics anymore and when I did it was mostly Marvel. Now the few I read are mostly DC.
The thing I like about the New-52 the most is that they have all these diverse titles. It's not just Batman, Superman, Green Lantern. I'm reading Justice League Dark, Voodoo, Demon Knights. And at least with the titles I'm reading, there's no baggage.
Still hoping for a The Question title though...
I wish I could click "agree" and "disagree." I like everything in your post except the "I wish Marvel would do the same" part.
I wish I could click "agree" and "disagree." I like everything in your post except the "I wish Marvel would do the same" part.
Well, someone did "disagree" and "like" so there you go :)
Think about it. It COULD be awesome. Instead of having 20 X-Men or Avengers titles, you'd probably have around 5 each. Then you get titles like Luke Cage, Dr. Strange, or something crazy like a Spider-Man team or Morlock team, a Rocket Raccoon and Groot and Cosmo team up. Or make a magical team or a God Squad or whatever. You could also bring back things like Dr. Voodoo or Alpha Flight.
Sure, some of those titles wouldn't pan out and get cancelled after six issues, but at least they'd get a shot.
I think the biggest problems is Marvel doesn't have a number. I suppose they could do 616, but that's a lot of comics.
I wish I could click "agree" and "disagree." I like everything in your post except the "I wish Marvel would do the same" part.
Well, someone did "disagree" and "like" so there you go :)
Think about it. It COULD be awesome. Instead of having 20 X-Men or Avengers titles, you'd probably have around 5 each. Then you get titles like Luke Cage, Dr. Strange, or something crazy like a Spider-Man team or Morlock team, a Rocket Raccoon and Groot and Cosmo team up. Or make a magical team or a God Squad or whatever. You could also bring back things like Dr. Voodoo or Alpha Flight.
Sure, some of those titles wouldn't pan out and get cancelled after six issues, but at least they'd get a shot.
I think the biggest problems is Marvel doesn't have a number. I suppose they could do 616, but that's a lot of comics.
If they did that without a reboot, I'd be ecstatic, so if that's what you mean I'm all for it. But line-wide reboots don't really work for Marvel the same way they do for DC.
Answers
As for it being success. So far it's worked well; it's hard to argue the shortterm results. It will be a few years before we see if the New52 is a complete win. For me I went from buying just DC events and the Flash to ordering a ton of these trades. So they are getting way more of my money than they did before.
Then you have things where the change has been for the better, like Supergirl. All respect to Gates and Igle's run from the past decade, but I don't think anyone knew what to do with Kara once they brought her back. But I *LOVE* the New 52 version of her. Decidedly different, and not just Superman's girly-girl cousin.
So if going back means scrapping what advances they HAVE made? Well, I'm hoping not...
And I, too, love this New Supergirl. Heck, I even like the new Superboy.
So in the end, while I don't agree with all (or even most) of DC's decisions, I don't want them to go back on it.
And to answer the original question of this thread (again), just because I don't agree with everything doesn't make this new 52 a failure or disaster.
Your Europe correspondent reporting:
In Germany, Switzerland and Austria the newDC will be released as follows:
(source: Panini Vorschau)
June 12
- BATMAN #1 will also include Detective Comics #1-2, pages 52, $6.50
- SUPERMAN #1 will also include Action Comics #1 and Supergirl #1, pages 60, $6.50
- GREEN LANTERN #1, will include Green Lantern Corps #1, pages 52, $6.50
- FLASH #1, contains The Flash #1-4, pages 100 (trade), $17
June 26
- JUSTICE LEAGUE #1 will include Teen Titans #1, pages 52, $6.50
- BATMAN: THE DARK KNIGHT #1 will include Nightwing #1, pages 52, $6.50
- AQUAMAN #1, contains Aquaman #1-6, pages 132 (trade), $19.50
-BATGIRL #1, contains Batgirl #1-6, pages 132 (trade), $19.50
- CATWOMAN #1, contains Catwoman #1-6, pages 132 (trade), $19.50
-JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK #1 contains Justice League Dark #1-7, pages 132 (trade), $19.50
Interesting:
Only 4 titles will be released monthly [Batman/Detective Comics], [Superman/Action Comics/Supergirl], [Green Lantern/Green Lantern Corps], [Justice League/Teen Titans]
Those 4 (main-)titles are not stand-alones. But released as interesting combos.
All other titles will be released as trades.
Animal Man + Swamp Thing will get their trades - but no release date yet.
Details on other titles not released yet.
Due to the way the new titles are being released, it's obvious that it's not called the new52....
I did the conversion Euro to Dollars per April 23,2012
I vaguely remember watching reruns of the Flip Wilson show
:D
I don't have much to add to this conversation in respect to success or failure. DC amounts to about 10% of my comic purchases for the month. The amount has remained the same before and after the New 52, although I admit, I did pick up a lot of new books that first month to check them out, but not much was added to my regular pull list. I miss the Pre-52 Booster Gold series, and the "replacement" JLI has been weak. However, I thought OMAC was awesome (but nobody else did, so it got cancelled).
There has been good and bad, but not much to dramatically increase my love (or dollars) for DC. Other then Kudos for trying to breathe new life into the Universe. Yes... Way to go DC!
Marvel - don't you DARE screw with what you got going!
History repeats itself.
Been reading old issues of amazing heroes about crisis on inf. earths from the 80's and what people are saying now
They were saying the same thing back then.
I'm glad they did it right this time and not half assed like in the '80's with some comic keeping the numbering going.
Just do like me sit back and enjoy the comics coming out and promote them to kids so they can enjoy it!!
Maybe a better question would be "Has DC succeeded in ITS goals for the New 52?" Maybe. Do I like it? Not really... the best of the lot, in my opinion, are Swamp Thing and Animal Man, but I've read better. I think as a whole, the New 52 comes across as Poochy the Dog from the Simpsons.
It obviously didn't win over some of the older fans, like myself and JSA4me and others. However, JSA4me, much of the snappy comments you're on the business end of, right now, are due to your "you're all wrong" attitude. This is a really great forum, and we typically don't respond to anyone that harshly, bur you were asking for it, I'm afraid. Maybe lighten up a little, with a more objective approach. If this had been the Bleeding Cool forums, they would have burned your house down.
Posting to the "whiner" thread seems like a harsh suggestion, but maybe there's something to that.
I'm an older fan, too, and while I like slightly more of the DCnU than I did of the last few years of the DCoU, I'm certainly not fond of it as a whole, as I'm not fond of the direction of mainstream comics overall. But my, or your, or @JSA4me's, personal disliking of it doesn't make it a "predictable total disaster."
And yes, bringing up the Whining Tread was harsh, but I was frustrated with the "you're all wrong" attitude... and the old Whining Thread was hilarious.
For ME, however, I have found I care much less for the work they put out. It feels like 90's Marvel. With a few exceptions, they read like editorially driven product, rather than stories people want to tell. They've gotten rid of the "generational" aspect that was the emotional heart of the DC Universe to me, and I understand the older fans who felt that the post-Crisis DCU left them cold. I read the books by the creators I like, but I quickly gave up on the ones done by newer creators and I avoid like the plague the ones by 90's Marvel castoffs who were best known for scripting what the ditor told them to write.
as far as luring in new readers, making the books (new)reader friendly? i doubt. i mean, the books are still basically written for trades! multi-issue (>3) issue arcs? multi-part crossovers between books? DC's back to where they were before the relaunch/soft-reboot or whatever hell you want to call it...and the books are dropping like flies, only to be replaced by new ones, in order to maintain the '52' aspect of it.
granted, Marvel also puts out a ton of books month in and month out, but DC separated itself from the pack for only a few months...and now it's practically status quo.
Big 2? please just put out more thought out, quality books rather than every half-assed idea that gets past editorial.
I wonder how much money the big 2 are making outside the States. Does anybody have the figures?
what's my point again? one that i was gonna make was the biggest impact in the long run this newDC will have is the day-and-date digital. long after Big BLue goes back to wearing the Reddies, after Wonder Woman's pants get ripped into shorts, yadda yadda, the Digital Evolution will be the most significant event to come out of the whateveryoucallthis...
OT PS:
i hope Marvel never does this. ever.
Leave the crappy costume changes and de-aging exclusively to the X-Men. ;)
It was obviously a huge sales success at first. And even though sales naturally decline month after month, I think it will be quite a while before someone says "We're back to where we were before." And even when/if that does happen, DC will still be ahead of where they would have been had they NOT done this.
Where the New 52 faltered was in terms of getting new readers. They got many lapsed readers but precious few new ones. I have heard a handful of anecdotes from people about how they know someone who started reading last September, but by and large the numbers just aren't there. A Nielson survey showed that only 5% of readers were new. I guess in this day and age even that is something to celebrate -- because when was the last time so "many" new readers came aboard? -- but in the big picture that number looks rather pathetic, especially since sales have declined far more than 5% since September.
I see the digital efforts as a mixed bag. On the one hand, as with the New 52 in general, I think that it's something DC basically HAD to try. But the numbers don't really show any huge amount of promise. Surveys show that most of the people downloading DC digitally are OLDER readers, which kinda destroys the idea that "digital is for kids with disposable income". Still, digital has to do SOME good for SOME people. It's an exciting option that DC seems to be trying for all its worth. But when DC brass come out and admit that digital sales are only around 2%-6% of physical, and that the numbers are NOT going up, then it kinda dulls the silver lining of "this is the future". Still, it is what it is and in 2012 that option NEEDS to be out there.
Lastly, personally, I definitely think the New 52 was a success. I'm reading Flash AND Wonder Woman regularly for the first time ever. I'm still excited about the Bat-books. I can't wait to read Animal Man and Swamp Thing in trade. I will say that the quality of these books doesn't match the heyday in the late '80s, but... I don't think mainstream superhero comics will ever get that good again anyway. And I think DC right now is in a better place than it's been in since... maybe the late '90s. I'm pleased.
BTW: It's amusing that we still refer to part of what has become a niche hobby market as "mainstream".
Can you expand on "quality"? Are you talking artistic? Writing? Both? I've noticed I'm being blown away by what I'm reading in these books and that hasn't really happened since the late 80s. If anything, I'm seeing a return to form. I'm not as concerned about what superstar artist is creating this work as I am what's going to happen to the characters next. Which really is what a comic should be.
The thing I like about the New-52 the most is that they have all these diverse titles. It's not just Batman, Superman, Green Lantern. I'm reading Justice League Dark, Voodoo, Demon Knights. And at least with the titles I'm reading, there's no baggage.
Still hoping for a The Question title though...
Think about it. It COULD be awesome. Instead of having 20 X-Men or Avengers titles, you'd probably have around 5 each. Then you get titles like Luke Cage, Dr. Strange, or something crazy like a Spider-Man team or Morlock team, a Rocket Raccoon and Groot and Cosmo team up. Or make a magical team or a God Squad or whatever. You could also bring back things like Dr. Voodoo or Alpha Flight.
Sure, some of those titles wouldn't pan out and get cancelled after six issues, but at least they'd get a shot.
I think the biggest problems is Marvel doesn't have a number. I suppose they could do 616, but that's a lot of comics.