Time once again for another round of 'Who's Gonna Get Cancelled?'
First up: the DC candidates...
1- Green Team -- Issue 3 drops to the bottom of the pile and to the top of the list. 11,220 copies, down 21.7% from the previous issue and 59.6% from the first issue. Not long for this world. 2- Katana -- #6 also takes a big drop, falling 12.7% to 11,346 copies. Down 58% from the first issue. 3- Stormwatch -- Jim Starlin's approach to the series isn't working, I'm sorry to say. #22 has 11,792 copies, a drop of 4%, and of 18.1% over the past six issues. 4- Batwing -- #22 falls 3% more to 12,062, a drop of 10.2% over six issues. 5- Justice League of America's Vibe -- The sixth issue drops 10.7% in sales, down to 12,241, toppling 54.7% since the first issue. At this rate, he'll never make it to Canada. 6- The Movement -- #3 finally drops into the list, giving All-Star Western a little reprieve, falling another 19.3% in sales, down to 14,524 copies, and 50.3% in only three issues. The only moving this book is making is down as it begins to circle the drain.
Now... let's look at Marvel:
1- Wolverine: Max -- continues to fall as #9 slips 1.8% to 16,931 copies, still ahead of the six worst DC titles above, even after a six month drop of 29.6%. 2- Gambit -- #15 enters the list in a big way with 17,291 copies, a fall of 4.1%, 22.8% for six months. 3- Fearless Defenders -- continues sinking, losing another 1.9% (22.6% for six months), landing at 17,411 copies. A rise in price to $3.99 isn't bound to help. 4- Captain Marvel -- the crossover with Avengers Assemble didn't help very much as #14 lands at 19,320 copies. But although this was a drop of 1.8% since the previous issue, the book actually finagled a six-month climb of 1.8%. The math makes my head hurt. This is better than most of DC's books, but there are rumors that Marvel may be cancelled and relaunched within a few months. 5- Scarlet Spider -- #19 loses 1.2% in sales, down to 22,499 copies, a six month drop of 13.2%. Not a bad drop, but needs to slow that descent. 6- X-Men Legacy -- #14 makes the list with 22,199 copies. One issue drop of 4.4%, a six-issue drop of 36.5%.
And Hawkeye continues his slow crawl up the charts. Gotta love a winner.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Marc-Oliver Frisch and Paul O'Brien for The Beat.
Batwing and Stormwatch must be on DiDio's, Lee's, Johns, and Harras kids pull list. I cannot think if any other reason why those titles have lasted this long.
@CaptShazam I heard that Batwing & All Star Western are special cases. Batwing you have a black superhero but it is loosely tied to the Batbooks. Like it or not Batbooks sell. As for All Star Western well in a few months in Previews to come they are releasing some earlier Jonah Hex from Vertigo in collected form.
There wasn't any mention of that in the column I was using for data, but a quick check confirms that you're right, Gambithas already been cancelled. (I wondered why it hadn't appeared on my list before now.) So we'll scratch that one from the list, and, just to fill the list out to six, we'll add...
Avengers Arena -- #12, which has fallen 2.1% to 23, 969 and has a six-month drop of 37.7%.
But wait -- this too is being cancelled as of #18. Apparently the 'story' is coming to an end. Hmm. We have to climb a little higher for our sixth candidate...
A+X -- #10 has only 24, 371 copies. A one issue drop of 5.5%, a six-month drop of 49.3%, and 71.8% since the series began. With that kind of leakage, it's a sure candidate, though the numbers still seem fairly safe for the moment, and a serial with Captain America and Cyclops is scheduled for the next few issues.
Batwing and Stormwatch must be on DiDio's, Lee's, Johns, and Harras kids pull list. I cannot think if any other reason why those titles have lasted this long.
I would have liked to see Stormwatch do better; I was enjoying this book. I think the only thing keeping it from outright cancellation has been that they handed it off to Jim Starlin to give it a second chance, but I think the abrupt change of storyline and line-up might have turned off a lot of readers. I know I was disappointed (even though recent issues show a reason for those odd events), and I'm a Starlin fan. That second chance is fading swiftly, though...
@Chuck_Melville I think a few months ago they said that Avengers Arena would have a first "season" that would end, and then it would relaunch later. And it is the sort of story that actually could benefit from the structure, I think.
Avengers Arena -- #12, which has fallen 2.1% to 23, 969 and has a six-month drop of 37.7%.
But wait -- this too is being cancelled as of #18. Apparently the 'story' is coming to an end. Hmm. We have to climb a little higher for our sixth candidate...
Oh it was like you walked up and punched me in the gut and then threw nachos at me
@Chuck_Melville I think a few months ago they said that Avengers Arena would have a first "season" that would end, and then it would relaunch later. And it is the sort of story that actually could benefit from the structure, I think.
Oh it was like you walked up and said, it'll be ok try one of the Nachos and it was pretty darn tasty
Avengers Academy and then Avengers Arena have been two of my favorites for a while now.
Gage might be taking a cue from his "Buffy" work and making them season formats.
A + X is being revamped with a continuing lead feature and backup stories, but I don't think that will help. The current audience doesn't accept anthology titles, which is a shame, because I've been enjoying this one.
MAX books have a lower sales threshold, for some reason, but I don't see Wolverine MAX lasting long....and weirdly enough, Tom Brevoort recently said that Icon books are not expect to make money, and continue as long as they don't LOSE money. Odd setup there, IMHO.
I liked Avengers Academy, but I don't like Avengers Arena, so I won't be sorry to see it go, and will just as displeased to see it return. I won't bother with the next incarnation, regardless of it having 'Avengers' in the title.
I'm not impressed with A+X either. I like anthologies and I liked the AvX series that preceded it, the one with the expanded battles from the Avengers vs X-Men event. But A+X isn't very fulfilling; the team-ups feel contrived and, with the exception of one or two, are completely unmemorable. I think it's a waste of paper, and I'm not surprised that it's sinking. The Captain America & Cyclops serial may help and it'll certainly keep the book alive for another six months, but if that doesn't turn the sales around then it may be gone in seven months time.
MAX books have a lower sales threshold, for some reason, but I don't see Wolverine MAX lasting long....and weirdly enough, Tom Brevoort recently said that Icon books are not expect to make money, and continue as long as they don't LOSE money. Odd setup there, IMHO.
Its not that odd at all. Icon is their "Creator-Owned" line. Marvel uses it to keep their A-list happyby letting them do their own thing but stay in the Marvel Comics house. They don't produce it, they only cover part of the cost of publishing and marketing, so over all its a pretty small investment for them, and if somethings a hit (like say, Kick-Ass), or gets optioned for film/tv then the media reports it as Marvel Comics Kick-Ass. That's why both Powers and Casanova were brought over from Image.
But publishing non-superhero books has never been in Marvel's wheelhouse and they don't do much with the Icon brand, which, I think, is why so many of their creators are bringing their new projects back to Image.
As for MAX books, they probably have thresholds that are more comparable with other mature titles on the market. With very few and notable exceptions those books rarely sell even in the 20,000's. That would be a huge hit. If looked at like that Wolverine is actually a really respectable seller. Punisher MAX sold about the same. Also, I'm sure they will be keeping a close eye on trade sales, as they are a bigger factor in the mature readers market than they are in the regular superhero market.
As for MAX books, they probably have thresholds that are more comparable with other mature titles on the market. With very few and notable exceptions those books rarely sell even in the 20,000's. That would be a huge hit. If looked at like that Wolverine is actually a really respectable seller. Punisher MAX sold about the same. Also, I'm sure they will be keeping a close eye on trade sales, as they are a bigger factor in the mature readers market than they are in the regular superhero market.
Punisher MAX had a fairly good run. It seems like the few that have been reading Wolverine Max have been enjoying it. Maybe the newer MAX book will stick around for a while.
I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?
Yeah, I haven't seen the numbers posted anywhere for the digital sales.
My expectations are that the low sales of the print copies probably won't affect continued publication of the digital copies, but could possibly result in a cancellation of the print version, leaving them as digital only.
Except we've never really seen that happen, to my knowledge. DC has been systematically cancelling the Digital First titles, print and digital editions both, as soon as the print numbers dip into normal cancellation territory for regular print comics. Far from being economically sustainable in and of itself, it doesn't seem like the digital avenue adds a longer leash to these titles in any noticeable way. (And aren't these 3.99 comics anyway?)
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I'd say that if you wanted to know the total combined sales of print and digital, add 100 to the print sales statistics. Jim Lee and Dan Didio said that the comparison between print to digital sales used to be "the length of a piece of paper vs. the width of a human hair", and now things have changed so that it's "the length of a piece of paper vs. the width of a stick of gum".
I find it interest that 2 of Snyder's current storylines riffs off highly regarded storylines by OTHER writers (Death in the Family & Year One). Maybe in the n52, those stories didnt exist.
And Rotworld reminded me of Blackest Night (with the undead heroes and the world transformed) . . . And Court of the Owls reminded me of The Black Glove/R.I.P. (a secret organization of rich people with ties to Wayne history) . . . I generally like Snyder, but . . . yeah.
As for what will be worth money, I was SURE that the mainstream Marvel stuff from 1997 - 2001 would be worth a lot since Spider-Man was only selling around 75000 (and so on), but with digital? Back issues aren't in demand unless they are from pre-1975 and I don't know as there will be people clamoring for Byrne's Spider-Man run, let alone the modern stuff.
Well, Byrne's Spider-Man run didn't set the world on fire, but a good number of Marvel Comics published around the turn of the millennium ARE worth a lot more than people think they are. Check out the prices for any issue in which Carnage or Venom is featured. Amazing Spider-Man 410 is a $15 comic. Amazing 430 and 431 can run up to $40 each. Many post-Byrne issues of Amazing Vol. 2, leading up to the WTC issue (#36), are worth around $20. They all had fairly low print runs, and if an issue features Norman Osborn (#25) or Venom (#19, #22), you're looking at a $15-$25 comic. Key issues with Mary Jane (who was "dead" at the time) are also worth money.
Similarly, the "Twelve" storyline in the X-titles was one of the worst in the history of Big Two comics, imo. A convoluted mess. But it was a BIG deal, and people who read those titles in the '80s always wondered how the "Twelve" stuff would play out. So all those issues from the late '90s, with Apocalypse returning, Wolverine becoming "Death" and getting his Adamantium back? Those can go for $10-$20 each. Uncanny X-Men 375-377 are comparatively rare, and people want to complete their runs. Likewise with Wolverine around issues 144-150. And Cable #75 -- awful story, but it was/is a key issue.
Lastly, check out what the first appearance of Fantomex is going for. It's in Morrison's New X-Men run, and orders in 2002 were not high. The issue is worth $30. Kevin Smith's early Daredevil issues can also bring in decent money. Sometimes quality wins out.
I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?
Yeah, I haven't seen the numbers posted anywhere for the digital sales.
My expectations are that the low sales of the print copies probably won't affect continued publication of the digital copies, but could possibly result in a cancellation of the print version, leaving them as digital only.
Except we've never really seen that happen, to my knowledge. DC has been systematically cancelling the Digital First titles, print and digital editions both, as soon as the print numbers dip into normal cancellation territory for regular print comics. Far from being economically sustainable in and of itself, it doesn't seem like the digital avenue adds a longer leash to these titles in any noticeable way. (And aren't these 3.99 comics anyway?)
What Digital First titles have been cancelled!? The only ones to my knowledge were Batman Beyond Unlimited, which has been immediately replaced by Batman Beyond Universe, and Arrow, which is assumed to be on hiatus until the show's second season begins. And, at that, it's only the print version that's been cancelled; I believe the digital version is continuing. I don't see any 'systematic cancellation" going on.
I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?
Yeah, I haven't seen the numbers posted anywhere for the digital sales.
My expectations are that the low sales of the print copies probably won't affect continued publication of the digital copies, but could possibly result in a cancellation of the print version, leaving them as digital only.
Except we've never really seen that happen, to my knowledge. DC has been systematically cancelling the Digital First titles, print and digital editions both, as soon as the print numbers dip into normal cancellation territory for regular print comics. Far from being economically sustainable in and of itself, it doesn't seem like the digital avenue adds a longer leash to these titles in any noticeable way. (And aren't these 3.99 comics anyway?)
What Digital First titles have been cancelled!? The only ones to my knowledge were Batman Beyond Unlimited, which has been immediately replaced by Batman Beyond Universe, and Arrow, which is assumed to be on hiatus until the show's second season begins. And, at that, it's only the print version that's been cancelled; I believe the digital version is continuing. I don't see any 'systematic cancellation" going on.
Those digital first titles seem to rotate in and out.
I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?
Yeah, I haven't seen the numbers posted anywhere for the digital sales.
My expectations are that the low sales of the print copies probably won't affect continued publication of the digital copies, but could possibly result in a cancellation of the print version, leaving them as digital only.
Except we've never really seen that happen, to my knowledge. DC has been systematically cancelling the Digital First titles, print and digital editions both, as soon as the print numbers dip into normal cancellation territory for regular print comics. Far from being economically sustainable in and of itself, it doesn't seem like the digital avenue adds a longer leash to these titles in any noticeable way. (And aren't these 3.99 comics anyway?)
What Digital First titles have been cancelled!? The only ones to my knowledge were Batman Beyond Unlimited, which has been immediately replaced by Batman Beyond Universe, and Arrow, which is assumed to be on hiatus until the show's second season begins. And, at that, it's only the print version that's been cancelled; I believe the digital version is continuing. I don't see any 'systematic cancellation" going on.
Ani-Com girls is gone, I know that, but I only pay attention to the Batman :Legends, the Adventures of Superman and the best book DC is doing right now: Batman '66.
I'm assuming with the DC digital first books that these numbers are solely the print editions?
Yeah, I haven't seen the numbers posted anywhere for the digital sales.
My expectations are that the low sales of the print copies probably won't affect continued publication of the digital copies, but could possibly result in a cancellation of the print version, leaving them as digital only.
Except we've never really seen that happen, to my knowledge. DC has been systematically cancelling the Digital First titles, print and digital editions both, as soon as the print numbers dip into normal cancellation territory for regular print comics. Far from being economically sustainable in and of itself, it doesn't seem like the digital avenue adds a longer leash to these titles in any noticeable way. (And aren't these 3.99 comics anyway?)
What Digital First titles have been cancelled!? The only ones to my knowledge were Batman Beyond Unlimited, which has been immediately replaced by Batman Beyond Universe, and Arrow, which is assumed to be on hiatus until the show's second season begins. And, at that, it's only the print version that's been cancelled; I believe the digital version is continuing. I don't see any 'systematic cancellation" going on.
Ani-Com girls is gone, I know that, but I only pay attention to the Batman :Legends, the Adventures of Superman and the best book DC is doing right now: Batman '66.
I think Legends of the Dark Knight is coming to end, too, at least in floppy comics format. I remember reading somewhere it will continue digitally and in TPB collections.
And I second the love for Batman '66. It's the only DC book I'm buying regularly right now.
I'm gutted Vibe is ending. That's one of my favorite books at the moment. A really great book, shame to see this go. Oh well, DC will be $2.99 worse off and I'll $2.99 better off each month now.
I want to see a Cancelled Team Book from DC, Omac, Vibe, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold etc... On a team book could be fun and interesting if handled right. Sure something like this has happened before???
I want to see a Cancelled Team Book from DC, Omac, Vibe, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold etc... On a team book could be fun and interesting if handled right. Sure something like this has happened before???
I think it's being called Justice League Of America...
Hail and Farewell, Fearless Defenders. You had a good storyline, really solid artwork, amazing covers, and a very small readership.
Another series that started off with a very convoluted initial story and doesn't set up its status quo until around issue 5 - 7. After watching a lot of TV series 1st episodes with the fall season starting, I really wish people in comics would realize that while first issues are hard, if they are done right, it can give a borderline series a leg up.
Comments
/Somewhere Jim Lee just woke up and said "I got a new one!!!" :)
First up: the DC candidates...
1- Green Team -- Issue 3 drops to the bottom of the pile and to the top of the list. 11,220 copies, down 21.7% from the previous issue and 59.6% from the first issue. Not long for this world.
2- Katana -- #6 also takes a big drop, falling 12.7% to 11,346 copies. Down 58% from the first issue.
3- Stormwatch -- Jim Starlin's approach to the series isn't working, I'm sorry to say. #22 has 11,792 copies, a drop of 4%, and of 18.1% over the past six issues.
4- Batwing -- #22 falls 3% more to 12,062, a drop of 10.2% over six issues.
5- Justice League of America's Vibe -- The sixth issue drops 10.7% in sales, down to 12,241, toppling 54.7% since the first issue. At this rate, he'll never make it to Canada.
6- The Movement -- #3 finally drops into the list, giving All-Star Western a little reprieve, falling another 19.3% in sales, down to 14,524 copies, and 50.3% in only three issues. The only moving this book is making is down as it begins to circle the drain.
Now... let's look at Marvel:
1- Wolverine: Max -- continues to fall as #9 slips 1.8% to 16,931 copies, still ahead of the six worst DC titles above, even after a six month drop of 29.6%.
2- Gambit -- #15 enters the list in a big way with 17,291 copies, a fall of 4.1%, 22.8% for six months.
3- Fearless Defenders -- continues sinking, losing another 1.9% (22.6% for six months), landing at 17,411 copies. A rise in price to $3.99 isn't bound to help.
4- Captain Marvel -- the crossover with Avengers Assemble didn't help very much as #14 lands at 19,320 copies. But although this was a drop of 1.8% since the previous issue, the book actually finagled a six-month climb of 1.8%. The math makes my head hurt. This is better than most of DC's books, but there are rumors that Marvel may be cancelled and relaunched within a few months.
5- Scarlet Spider -- #19 loses 1.2% in sales, down to 22,499 copies, a six month drop of 13.2%. Not a bad drop, but needs to slow that descent.
6- X-Men Legacy -- #14 makes the list with 22,199 copies. One issue drop of 4.4%, a six-issue drop of 36.5%.
And Hawkeye continues his slow crawl up the charts. Gotta love a winner.
Information here is based on numbers presented in monthly columns by Marc-Oliver Frisch and Paul O'Brien for The Beat.
Matthew
Avengers Arena -- #12, which has fallen 2.1% to 23, 969 and has a six-month drop of 37.7%.
But wait -- this too is being cancelled as of #18. Apparently the 'story' is coming to an end. Hmm. We have to climb a little higher for our sixth candidate...
A+X -- #10 has only 24, 371 copies. A one issue drop of 5.5%, a six-month drop of 49.3%, and 71.8% since the series began. With that kind of leakage, it's a sure candidate, though the numbers still seem fairly safe for the moment, and a serial with Captain America and Cyclops is scheduled for the next few issues.
So our Marvel candidates this time around are...
1- Wolverine: Max
2- Fearless Defenders
3- Captain Marvel
4- Scarlet Spider
5- X-Men: Legacy
6- A+X
edit: and i said gage wrote it but he doesn't i must have been thinking I like it so there's a decent chance Gage is writing it
going to finish this coffee and be quiet for a bit
MAX books have a lower sales threshold, for some reason, but I don't see Wolverine MAX lasting long....and weirdly enough, Tom Brevoort recently said that Icon books are not expect to make money, and continue as long as they don't LOSE money. Odd setup there, IMHO.
I'm not impressed with A+X either. I like anthologies and I liked the AvX series that preceded it, the one with the expanded battles from the Avengers vs X-Men event. But A+X isn't very fulfilling; the team-ups feel contrived and, with the exception of one or two, are completely unmemorable. I think it's a waste of paper, and I'm not surprised that it's sinking. The Captain America & Cyclops serial may help and it'll certainly keep the book alive for another six months, but if that doesn't turn the sales around then it may be gone in seven months time.
That's why both Powers and Casanova were brought over from Image.
But publishing non-superhero books has never been in Marvel's wheelhouse and they don't do much with the Icon brand, which, I think, is why so many of their creators are bringing their new projects back to Image.
As for MAX books, they probably have thresholds that are more comparable with other mature titles on the market. With very few and notable exceptions those books rarely sell even in the 20,000's. That would be a huge hit. If looked at like that Wolverine is actually a really respectable seller. Punisher MAX sold about the same. Also, I'm sure they will be keeping a close eye on trade sales, as they are a bigger factor in the mature readers market than they are in the regular superhero market.
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I'd say that if you wanted to know the total combined sales of print and digital, add 100 to the print sales statistics. Jim Lee and Dan Didio said that the comparison between print to digital sales used to be "the length of a piece of paper vs. the width of a human hair", and now things have changed so that it's "the length of a piece of paper vs. the width of a stick of gum". And Rotworld reminded me of Blackest Night (with the undead heroes and the world transformed) . . . And Court of the Owls reminded me of The Black Glove/R.I.P. (a secret organization of rich people with ties to Wayne history) . . . I generally like Snyder, but . . . yeah. Well, Byrne's Spider-Man run didn't set the world on fire, but a good number of Marvel Comics published around the turn of the millennium ARE worth a lot more than people think they are. Check out the prices for any issue in which Carnage or Venom is featured. Amazing Spider-Man 410 is a $15 comic. Amazing 430 and 431 can run up to $40 each. Many post-Byrne issues of Amazing Vol. 2, leading up to the WTC issue (#36), are worth around $20. They all had fairly low print runs, and if an issue features Norman Osborn (#25) or Venom (#19, #22), you're looking at a $15-$25 comic. Key issues with Mary Jane (who was "dead" at the time) are also worth money.
Similarly, the "Twelve" storyline in the X-titles was one of the worst in the history of Big Two comics, imo. A convoluted mess. But it was a BIG deal, and people who read those titles in the '80s always wondered how the "Twelve" stuff would play out. So all those issues from the late '90s, with Apocalypse returning, Wolverine becoming "Death" and getting his Adamantium back? Those can go for $10-$20 each. Uncanny X-Men 375-377 are comparatively rare, and people want to complete their runs. Likewise with Wolverine around issues 144-150. And Cable #75 -- awful story, but it was/is a key issue.
Lastly, check out what the first appearance of Fantomex is going for. It's in Morrison's New X-Men run, and orders in 2002 were not high. The issue is worth $30. Kevin Smith's early Daredevil issues can also bring in decent money. Sometimes quality wins out.
Matthew
comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48521
Last issues will be Katana #10 and Justice League Of America's Vibe #10, both out in December; and The Green Team #8, out in January.
Shame, that. I was enjoying the Green Team. Not unexpected, though.
And I second the love for Batman '66. It's the only DC book I'm buying regularly right now.
I want to see a Cancelled Team Book from DC, Omac, Vibe, Blue Beetle, Booster Gold etc... On a team book could be fun and interesting if handled right. Sure something like this has happened before???
Hail and Farewell, Fearless Defenders. You had a good storyline, really solid artwork, amazing covers, and a very small readership.